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Thread: Bitcoin

  1. #3851
    No idea, no different to reading an opinion in here i suppose, just another one in the mix

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    Last edited by Daveya.; 27th July 2021 at 11:48.

  2. #3852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    But I thought one of the great USP's of crypto/ Bitcoin was supposed to be since no individual or authority controlled it, thus more 'democratised' and immune from the manipulation and meddling of 'Authorities', more 'honest' if you will...but to me it seems the reverse, anyone with deep enough pockets and social media followers can blow it's price about like dandelion seeds in the breeze because like the tulip bulbs of yore fundamentally it has no intrinsic value.
    As time passes, and more people get in, it becomes more and more immune to the whales playing games

    We've had the intrinsic value argument before (and the tulip one) and there's no denying the value of Bitcoin and the bigger coins is based on consensus, much like many other things that have been around a lot longer

    It will take time for widespread acceptance of crypto as a store of value

    The underlying technology does have value though, and history will look favourably on the invention of the blockchain

    All my opinion of course

  3. #3853
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    As time passes, and more people get in, it becomes more and more immune to the whales playing games

    We've had the intrinsic value argument before (and the tulip one) and there's no denying the value of Bitcoin and the bigger coins is based on consensus, much like many other things that have been around a lot longer

    It will take time for widespread acceptance of crypto as a store of value

    The underlying technology does have value though, and history will look favourably on the invention of the blockchain

    All my opinion of course
    OF the many other things that've been around a lot longer, there is mostly something there...Sure I'm starting to see, though I might be wrong, there's legit applications for blockchain, potential utility as it were but isn't the code/ tech available to anyone so I'm not sure how/ what really that has to do with underpinning the bitcoin/ other coins valuations...The volatility puts me right off it as a store of value.
    Didn't a major hedge funder say a couple of days back that it's/ crypto's good for trading but qualified that it's just pure speculation, there is no intrinsic value, he even compared it to the Tulip bulbs...here we go found it..

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...fund-boss.html

  4. #3854
    To be fair crypto wasn't invented so traders could make money, it came out of the dust of the last financial crisis and has laudible aims.

    A major hedge fund holder won't be buying a coin because they've read the prospectus and believe in the project


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  5. #3855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    OF the many other things that've been around a lot longer, there is mostly something there...Sure I'm starting to see, though I might be wrong, there's legit applications for blockchain, potential utility as it were but isn't the code/ tech available to anyone so I'm not sure how/ what really that has to do with underpinning the bitcoin/ other coins valuations...The volatility puts me right off it as a store of value.
    Didn't a major hedge funder say a couple of days back that it's/ crypto's good for trading but qualified that it's just pure speculation, there is no intrinsic value, he even compared it to the Tulip bulbs...here we go found it..

    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...fund-boss.html
    Re: the blockchain - the code or technology being available to anyone is the whole point: it's not controlled by any one entity, and it's trusted by consensus

    How that translates to the value of the coin using any given blockchain being $xxx is beyond my understanding though, I'm not even sure the two things are particularly linked

    I saw the 'tulips' article, many in his profession say similar

    Always worth wondering if someone has a vested interest in something failing or not happening

    That's a whole other argument

  6. #3856
    Not much here

    https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.am...-b1891377.html

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  7. #3857
    Now the sh1thousing had stopped and the dust has settled there is some resistance which is good to see

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  8. #3858
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    I hear huge call options taken in the August and September expiries, mostly $46k to $72k strikes.

    Gamma squeezing has arrived in the land of bitcoin. The only reason this hasn't happened already in the past is the insane implied volatility (almost 100%) and hence the huge cost of failure - looks like somebody (or some players) are giving it a try now. Interesting times.



    A lot of data on that site, only discovered it yesterday. https://app.laevitas.ch/dashboard
    #plantpot

  9. #3859
    Yep, 42k the next big one

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  10. #3860
    Actually I'm now fully digesting what you've posted , without a full understanding of how these things work it's just sinking in

    So, in a nutshell, is this a deliberate pump and dump ? Rhetorical, I'm out of my depth but still,

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  11. #3861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveya. View Post
    Actually I'm now fully digesting what you've posted , without a full understanding of how these things work it's just sinking in

    So, in a nutshell, is this a deliberate pump and dump ? Rhetorical, I'm out of my depth but still,

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    It looks like it.

    Happens every day in equity markets, main reason Tesla is where it is - but don't think we have seen it in bitcoin yet due to the high implied volatility, the unregulated options markets and not least I suppose some of the whales are big enough to push the market around just with their cash holdings. But the more liquid the market gets (and the more players are using more sophisticated instruments, like futures), the more it takes to move the markets. Looks like some of the big boys are testing the good ole gamma squeeze to see if it works in bitcoin.
    #plantpot

  12. #3862
    Very interesting

    And looking back it didn't take much to kick things off, something from Musk about taking BTC again then and Amazon tweet then a denial blah blah , not much was needed to light the fire. That does suggest some verified good news rather than bs from narcissists may move BTC up rather quickly.

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  13. #3863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveya. View Post
    Very interesting

    And looking back it didn't take much to kick things off, something from Musk about taking BTC again then and Amazon tweet then a denial blah blah , not much was needed to light the fire. That does suggest some verified good news rather than bs from narcissists may move BTC up rather quickly.

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    Dunno.

    There was a ton of accumulation in the 29/30k region until selling exhausted itself. I honestly have no idea how much volume it takes to move this, after all the trading is so fragmented between all the exchanges and their derivatives, but suppose it's likely to be a lot more these days than six months ago or even 2018. I am also wondering what role the institutional traders are playing, those with no long-term position but only looking to play the volatility.

    Then we have the effect of Chinese capital flight, a looming tether and shitcoin crackdown, the Binance situation and it all gets very muddy. Given all of that, this is a powder keg that could go off any minute. If it doesn't collapse, it might as well moon.

    Most likely long-term outcome is still zero as far as I am concerned, but the path to zero is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men...
    #plantpot

  14. #3864
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    ..but the path to zero is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men...
    25:17

    Classic scene

  15. #3865
    I understand the pessimism. I'm an optimist, the path to economic recovery may be with innovation, green energy, AI, medicine ( last week they think may have found a cure for breast cancer ) and of course Crypto.

    Gensler is a huge believer, and he may have 7 years in the hot seat.

    Maybe, just maybe, crypto is bigger than short term financial tooing and frooing and Musk and Bezo

    Maybe

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    Last edited by Daveya.; 28th July 2021 at 09:37.

  16. #3866
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    25:17

    Classic scene
    What?
    #plantpot

  17. #3867
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    What?
    I am guessing Pulp Fiction ?

  18. #3868
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB2 View Post
    I am guessing Pulp Fiction ?
    The "What" is part of the scene. You are talking to the biggest PF fan on this planet.

    #plantpot

  19. #3869
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    One of QT's best imo.

  20. #3870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    One of QT's best imo.
    So many of those in PF.

    I don't really like the pointless brutality in some of his other movies, but PF is my all-time number 1.
    #plantpot

  21. #3871
    So, not far off now



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  22. #3872
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    So many of those in PF.

    I don't really like the pointless brutality in some of his other movies...
    Agreed. Kill Bill didn't really do it for me.

  23. #3873
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    The "What" is part of the scene. You are talking to the biggest PF fan on the planet
    I had forgotten the what's! Enjoyed watching that clip again.

  24. #3874
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    I’m a bit of a novice but has anyone else bought RUNE (THORChain) I did not a large amount but seems to be a nice rise with the potential to get a higher still

  25. #3875
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceblue View Post
    I’m a bit of a novice but has anyone else bought RUNE (THORChain) I did not a large amount but seems to be a nice rise with the potential to get a higher still
    What's the prospectus say about the project ? Have you bought because you believe in the concept or just a punt?

    We are using a referral code when mining to donate to a charity that feeds stray cats, ( we all love cats on the team ).

    Just got the a pic of the first tin bought. A reminder of the social side to crypto.

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  26. #3876
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveya. View Post
    What's the prospectus say about the project ? Have you bought because you believe in the concept or just a punt?

    We are using a referral code when mining to donate to a charity that feeds stray cats, ( we all love cats on the team ).

    Just got the a pic of the first tin bought. A reminder of the social side to crypto.

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    Just a punt fairly new to all this so still finding my feet really , sound a very worthy corse indeed stray cats
    Last edited by Iceblue; 29th July 2021 at 09:18.

  27. #3877
    Think today may be a record, think if it's green again it's 8th day in a row , don't think it's done that for a long time , 6 years maybe when it was peanuts?

    Breaking through those puts and calls or gamma squeeze to send it to the depths

    Who knows



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  28. #3878
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceblue View Post
    Just a punt fairly new to all this so still finding my feet really , sound a very worthy corse indeed stray cats
    I'm new too, just like cats

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  29. #3879
    Thoughts?

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  30. #3880
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    Sentiment is certainly a lot higher than it was a week/month back. Less FUD about now too.

    However, this one is a cracker.

    Old bloke (70+) sends his life savings (£250k) to an online crypto trading platform who stated “we’ll beat the stock market” and the BBC make it a headline news article!??!

    Must be a slow news day.

    You could remover the word crypto and insert any number of other scams and the BBC wouldn’t give the story the time of day.

    Any excuse to spread FUD. Maybe the “government” is politely suggesting that the BBC run a constant stream of anti crypto stories.


    'We lost our life savings in a cryptocurrency scam' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57983458

  31. #3881
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    s.


    'We lost our life savings in a cryptocurrency scam' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57983458
    Definitely the BBC seem intent on making "scam" synonymous with "crypto".

    I dabble in crypto and have had multiple relatives ask me ;

    "is what you are doing legal?"

    "You must have lost a lot of money because of crypto"

    "You need to pay the tax on that now"

    "Its a ponzi scheme" (from people who haven't got a clue what a ponzi scheme is).

    "Its a pyramid scheme" (from people who haven't got a clue what a pyramid scheme is).

    " Haven't they banned it "

    " Richard Branson likes it , the BBC have put articles all over Facebook about it"

    All this leads me to believe that crypto has taken over utterly and we are just seeing the last throes of a large dinosaur not quite realising its dead yet.
    Last edited by Mr.D; 29th July 2021 at 14:21.

  32. #3882
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Sentiment is certainly a lot higher than it was a week/month back. Less FUD about now too.

    However, this one is a cracker.

    Old bloke (70+) sends his life savings (£250k) to an online crypto trading platform who stated “we’ll beat the stock market” and the BBC make it a headline news article!??!

    Must be a slow news day.

    You could remover the word crypto and insert any number of other scams and the BBC wouldn’t give the story the time of day.

    Any excuse to spread FUD. Maybe the “government” is politely suggesting that the BBC run a constant stream of anti crypto stories.


    'We lost our life savings in a cryptocurrency scam' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57983458
    I don't know why you always do that, but it takes two minutes to check your claim and prove it wrong.

    A simple site search on bbc.com/news for the words "fraud" and "scam" reveals that the BBC are reporting on a daily basis about all sorts of frauds, amongst them financial, dating, jobs and many more types. I found hundreds of them in the last year alone and crypto scams are the absolute minority. Yet you claim some higher order is directing a campaign against your beloved cryptos.

    Fact of the matter is that at least half of all cryptos are only designed to scam other people, so fraud is rampant in the area. Then there is the normal amount of scammers jumping on anything 'hot' and in the news so you would expect that you find more scammer trying to convince their victims that they can generate high returns with bitcoin than with premium bonds. Given all that, I find it absolutely surprising that the BBC has so few crypto-related scam stories on their website. I suppose some higher-ups in the organisation are suppressing the reporting of crypto-scam because they have a vested interest?
    #plantpot

  33. #3883
    I dont own any bitcoin but follow the pricing as I find it fascinating.
    Bitcoin is up 33% in the past week, based on a rumour amazon will start accepting it. To put that into context, bitcoin's market cap increased in the past week by more than 10% of the value of Amazon, one of the world's most valuable companies.

  34. #3884
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    …they can generate high returns with bitcoin than with premium bonds
    I certainly have. And had a lot more in premium bonds to begin with

  35. #3885
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    Crypto has always seemed to me like a digital version of 'pass the parcel'. Though, now I come to think about it, 'musical chairs' is probably the more accurate analogy.
    Last edited by Mouse; 29th July 2021 at 22:13.

  36. #3886
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    I don't know why you always do that, but it takes two minutes to check your claim and prove it wrong.
    Ok, point taken and agreed.

    I was just trying to highlight the constant barrage of FUD spouted by all the media groups when referring to anything crypto.

    If it were possible to collate all news articles that have ever been published in the mainstream media, I’d bet that the vast majority would be spun in a highly negative and anti-crypto way.

  37. #3887
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Ok, point taken and agreed.

    I was just trying to highlight the constant barrage of FUD spouted by all the media groups when referring to anything crypto.

    If it were possible to collate all news articles that have ever been published in the mainstream media, I’d bet that the vast majority would be spun in a highly negative and anti-crypto way.
    Maybe because behind all the strongly-held beliefs, that is how the facts present themselves? Most of the sector is an organised scam. We can discuss bitcoin and other good-faith projects, but if you put these aside you are left with a mountain of fraudulent garbage.
    #plantpot

  38. #3888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Maybe because behind all the strongly-held beliefs, that is how the facts present themselves? Most of the sector is an organised scam. We can discuss bitcoin and other good-faith projects, but if you put these aside you are left with a mountain of fraudulent garbage.
    Exactly.
    Like Mulder 'I want to believe' but all I can discern is a highly speculative gamble reliant on a bigger fool/fomo or outright scams/frauds...Maybe I'm not hungry, desperate enough, yet...not a comment on others btw.

  39. #3889
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    Oopsie
    #plantpot

  40. #3890
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    Official announcement:



    Meanwhile, on Binance's website:



    This decision was taken so fast that they didn't even have time to inform their own marketing department. Beds are burning.
    #plantpot

  41. #3891
    Good, a small step in the right direction

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  42. #3892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Meanwhile, on Binance's website:
    Haha, that's hilarious.

  43. #3893
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    For those following the MicroStrategy saga, their second quarter 2021 financial results are now available. The press release can be seen here, with a slightly breathless analysis from Forbes here. Insomniacs in search of the raw figures may be interested in the full unexpurgated version on Business Wire.

    There is also a short piece on the Bloomberg website, which includes the following chart.





    By an odd coincidence I have recently been doodling with something almost identical to this for Argo Block chain - a split display plotting the ARB price over time, alongside the normalised BTC/USD price with the calculated correlation shown below it. This particular chart makes for an ideal template, however I am struggling with the correlation parameters they've used.

    Can anyone familiar with Bloomberg Terminals help out by decoding the line "Correlation(XBTUSD curncy,PR005,40) (MSTR US) 0.7333" for me?

    In other news, the MacroStrategy brand seems to have been quietly dropped in favour of MicroStrategy Services Corporation. (Possibly because someone got there first?)

  44. #3894
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    Can anyone familiar with Bloomberg Terminals help out by decoding the line "Correlation(XBTUSD curncy,PR005,40) (MSTR US) 0.7333" for me?

    It's been a long time since I last used a Bloomberg, but I can help a tiny little bit:

    This isn't a Bloomberg formula, I would guess it's Matlab or some such tool. And you got the formula wrong, you missed a ",0" after the 40: Correlation(XBTUSD curncy,PR005,40,0) (MSTR US) 0.7333

    The data is coming from a Bloomberg terminal, hence the tool will download the PR005 (= last price) field of ticker XBTUSD [curncy].

    There are two possibilities: the "40" may stand for a specific exchange as a source of the price data, or it stands for the timeframe over which the correlation is analysed. But I am really only guessing, we need to know which tool was used to generate the graph and correlation analysis to get further.
    #plantpot

  45. #3895
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    And you got the formula wrong...
    Funnily enough I can even remember thinking to myself "make sure to not miss off the last parameter" before I started copying it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    The data is coming from a Bloomberg terminal, hence the tool will download the PR005 (= last price) field of ticker XBTUSD [curncy].
    Aha. That was the one that had me completely flummoxed.

    The two parameters I would expect are the time frame, as you suggest, and possibly the starting offset.

    The way you explain it MATLAB would certainly make sense. Unfortunately it's not a piece of software that I have any experience of. It's certainly an avenue that can be explored though. Thank you.

  46. #3896
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Why is it only Binance and none of the others??
    You may well be correct in questioning this potential global miscarriage of injustice, should it turn out that they have indeed "always been a proactive player in fighting crime".

    India’s anti-money laundering agency is examining if Binance Holdings Ltd. had a role to play in an ongoing investigation involving betting apps, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

    The Enforcement Directorate has summoned Binance executives for questioning and is awaiting a response, the people said, asking not to be identified as the matter is under investigation. India is probing betting apps run by Chinese operators, which collected more than 10 billion rupees ($134 million) over the past 10 months, for allegedly laundering part of the money through the WazirX cryptocurrency exchange. Binance acquired WazirX in 2019.

    A Binance spokesperson said the exchange had not received any summons in June or this month. “We have always been a proactive player in fighting crime,” the spokesperson said. “We comply with regulator requests all around the world and we don’t comment on any specific engagements.” An Indian enforcement directorate spokesperson didn’t respond to calls.

    ...

    Incorporated in the Cayman Islands without any corporate headquarters, Binance has been facing regulatory crackdown as nations intensify scrutiny of the industry amid concerns that cryptocurrencies are being used to conceal proceeds of money laundering, drug dealing and terrorism.

    The operators of the apps used wallets with WazirX for buying, converting and transferring the money to wallets on Binance’s platform, the people said. The enforcement directorate has already issued a show-cause notice to WazirX over alleged contravention of foreign exchange management rules in transactions involving cryptocurrencies worth 27.9 billion rupees.

    The Indian agency found that Binance didn’t collect necessary know-your-customer documents from clients in most of the transactions, the people said. The exchange also didn’t collect information detailed by global anti-money laundering watchdog the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) for virtual currencies, they added.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...undering-probe

  47. #3897
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    So being a total novice what the best way to move my crypto and funds out of binance and who do I go to and use

    Genuine advise please don’t shoot me down lol
    Last edited by Iceblue; 2nd August 2021 at 19:29.

  48. #3898
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    Open an account with any other exchange and transfer from Binance to the other one in Bitcoin/ ETH etc

  49. #3899
    If you haven't done so, buying a hardware wallet like a Nano X is a good idea long term

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  50. #3900
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    Thank everyone just downloaded a new crypto exchange and wallet and transferred a very small amount over

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