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Thread: Bitcoin

  1. #1951
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    In concept (and indeed implementation) Bitcoin clearly solved a couple of problems: trustless, permissionless payments and the ability to make micro payments. Whether you consider those problems that were worth solving is moot really - the technology and actually using it is rather amazing.

    Accordingly I would argue that the technology absolutely does have some utility, it’s “value” is not zero. However, I think it is clear that today it is certainly not very useful as a currency partly (mainly?) because the cost of transacting on the platform (ignoring lightning or other second/subsequent layer solutions) is disproportionately high for smaller transactions. It also has a very high “comprehension” barrier to entry - it’s just not straightforward to use or understand especially when something doesn’t happen as expected.

    It seems to me (as an interested but not expert) observer that we are in a situation where the price itself is the product - the fact that it can be used to “store” large quantities of money (and has some helpful qualities like limited and clearly defined supply; very low management/holding cost; high liquidity; etc.) in an era of low to negative interest rates together with lots and lots of money sloshing around looking for a return means it’s “purpose” right now is simply to be valuable because people with money are prepared to treat it as such.

    I don’t really know what the implications of that might be - presumably as long as people believe it meets their requirements it will continue to be valuable until they don’t any more! However, right now a lot of people who control a lot of money seem to believe it will continue to appreciate which makes me think we have a long way to go on the current trajectory.

    Finally I believe that we haven’t actually worked out what it is going to be for in the long run ... but equally I am not sure it has to have any intrinsic value beyond simply being what it is.
    Spot on.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  2. #1952
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    In concept (and indeed implementation) Bitcoin clearly solved a couple of problems: trustless, permissionless payments and the ability to make micro payments. Whether you consider those problems that were worth solving is moot really - the technology and actually using it is rather amazing.

    Accordingly I would argue that the technology absolutely does have some utility, it’s “value” is not zero. However, I think it is clear that today it is certainly not very useful as a currency partly (mainly?) because the cost of transacting on the platform (ignoring lightning or other second/subsequent layer solutions) is disproportionately high for smaller transactions. It also has a very high “comprehension” barrier to entry - it’s just not straightforward to use or understand especially when something doesn’t happen as expected.

    It seems to me (as an interested but not expert) observer that we are in a situation where the price itself is the product - the fact that it can be used to “store” large quantities of money (and has some helpful qualities like limited and clearly defined supply; very low management/holding cost; high liquidity; etc.) in an era of low to negative interest rates together with lots and lots of money sloshing around looking for a return means it’s “purpose” right now is simply to be valuable because people with money are prepared to treat it as such.

    I don’t really know what the implications of that might be - presumably as long as people believe it meets their requirements it will continue to be valuable until they don’t any more! However, right now a lot of people who control a lot of money seem to believe it will continue to appreciate which makes me think we have a long way to go on the current trajectory.

    Finally I believe that we haven’t actually worked out what it is going to be for in the long run ... but equally I am not sure it has to have any intrinsic value beyond simply being what it is.
    Absolutely spot on.

    Regarding the core characteristic gaining dominance, the commentary is it is becoming a treasury reserve asset. Some will agree with that and others will disagree.

  3. #1953
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    As is perhaps illustrated by this seemingly savvy if somewhat unfortunate individual - https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurre...e_im_an_idiot/
    Ouch. They needed analogue steel seed storage before doing any of that!

  4. #1954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    But don't complain when the music stops and there are no chairs.
    Stolen

  5. #1955
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    Oops.

    Buy more.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  6. #1956
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    After not buying at 16.5 (ouch) this might be the dip you've been waiting for Raffe!

  7. #1957
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    After not buying at 16.5 (ouch) this might be the dip you've been waiting for Raffe!
    Naah. At 16.5 I would have bought for the predictable surge in public interest. Now the market is looking for bagholders, that's not in my CV.

    Needs to go much lower before I am interested.

  8. #1958
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    As it happens, I did an interim update and projected analysis for the challenge last night. Everything's cool. We'll be through the $50k before Joe loses the 'Elect' from his title.


  9. #1959
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    As it happens, I did an interim update and projected analysis for the challenge last night. Everything's cool. We'll be through the $50k before Joe loses the 'Elect' from his title.
    That was last night.

    Low so far this morning has been $32,500.


  10. #1960
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    Hey! Heeeyyyy!!!

    NOBODY told me that crypto could go down in value. WTF!!! I want to see a manager NOW!

  11. #1961
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Hey! Heeeyyyy!!!

    NOBODY told me that crypto could go down in value. WTF!!! I want to see a manager NOW!
    First things first - have you called the Lambo dealer??

  12. #1962
    What is the feeling on the next week? Dropped as low as £23764 today already, then jumped back to £25665. Will people panic sell and the price resets falls like after the last boom.

    Still annoyed I missed the boat again :-(, was tracking up to the end of November, then I was furloughed for a month and thought I will avoid the internet etc, and focus on family time. What a mistake that was! Was only going to spend a few K so nothing massive but still annoying.

  13. #1963
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam View Post
    First things first - have you called the Lambo dealer??
    It is fine as I am just about to pile into Tesla stock as well as some XRP. Might be Bugatti-o-clock soon!

  14. #1964
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikGixer750 View Post
    What is the feeling on the next week? Dropped as low as £23764 today already, then jumped back to £25665. Will people panic sell and the price resets falls like after the last boom.

    Still annoyed I missed the boat again :-(, was tracking up to the end of November, then I was furloughed for a month and thought I will avoid the internet etc, and focus on family time. What a mistake that was! Was only going to spend a few K so nothing massive but still annoying.
    If it hasn't fallen further over the course of today, I'd be buying (if I wanted to buy more)

    I'll be very surprised if this isn't the bottom, or very close to the bottom, of the current dip.

  15. #1965
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    I have it on good authority that Shergar's going to win the 16:20 at Aintree.

  16. #1966
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    Have you been mis-sold a cryptocurrency?

  17. #1967
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    Have you been mis-sold a cryptocurrency?
    Just listening to the news on radio 2; the FCA say you’re on your own!

    If you invest in crypto and lose, you’ve no comeback bug if you win, there’s tax to pay!

  18. #1968
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    It is fine as I am just about to pile into Tesla stock as well as some XRP. Might be Bugatti-o-clock soon!
    Oh that’s ok then. I was worried for you!

  19. #1969
    Down to 22k!


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  20. #1970
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    Cryptoasset investing? Be prepared to lose the lot, warns watchdog
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55615514

  21. #1971
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Cryptoasset investing? Be prepared to lose the lot, warns watchdog
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55615514
    Not sure I need a watchdog to tell me that.


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  22. #1972
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Cryptoasset investing? Be prepared to lose the lot, warns watchdog
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55615514
    To be fair you have no come back if you buy c**p shares or funds (or watches) that fall in value either.

  23. #1973
    Quote Originally Posted by NikGixer750 View Post
    Down to 22k!


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    There goes my 2021 Ferrari order :(
    It's just a matter of time...

  24. #1974
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    25% drop in 2 days ... is that the bubble bursting ... or just a pause for breath ... ?

    Bitcoin is an interesting spectator sport.

  25. #1975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    25% drop in 2 days ... is that the bubble bursting ... or just a pause for breath ... ?

    Bitcoin is an interesting spectator sport.
    Just another day I guess. Let's see. Lambo definitely on hold. Some decent deals on Vauxhalls though :)

  26. #1976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    25% drop in 2 days ... is that the bubble bursting ... or just a pause for breath ... ?

    Bitcoin is an interesting spectator sport.
    Time will tell.

    Drops of 30-40% were common during the last spike in 2017. I didn’t think we would see drops bigger than 20% this time, though the “experts” did say 30% was possible.

  27. #1977
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Time will tell.

    Drops of 30-40% were common during the last spike in 2017. I didn’t think we would see drops bigger than 20% this time, though the “experts” did say 30% was possible.
    This is ~28% down so far. Has bounced up, but could drop under 30k.

  28. #1978
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    Everything's cool. We'll be through the $50k before Joe loses the 'Elect' from his title.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    That was last night.
    OK. Maybe his second term then.


  29. #1979
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    OK. Maybe his second term then.
    LOLZ.

  30. #1980
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    'Hello, this is Lambos-r-us. How may I help?'

    'Bitcoin going to the moon again baby. Hell yeah!'

  31. #1981
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    'Hello, this is Lambos-r-us. How may I help?'

    'Bitcoin going to the moon again baby. Hell yeah!'
    Next stop 46k. End of Jan I'd estimate.

    Probably one more small ~15% correction between now and then.

    (Complete guesswork, DYOR etc etc)

  32. #1982
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    I'm guessing this is a dead cat.

  33. #1983
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    I'm guessing this is a dead cat.
    Dead lamb(o)

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  34. #1984
    As a daytrader, the new regulations have stopped me spreadbetting BTC, so I'm looking for other mechanisms.

    What's got the lowest spread and fastest execution out there ?

    Thanks in advance.

  35. #1985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gren View Post
    As a daytrader, the new regulations have stopped me spreadbetting BTC, so I'm looking for other mechanisms.

    What's got the lowest spread and fastest execution out there ?

    Thanks in advance.
    Not the lowest spread, but the best execution and no need for blockchain transaction confirmation (lowering transaction costs) and on the bank account (I know it's contrary to the BTC fanboi philosophy, but would be a requirement for me): CME Bitcoin Futures.

  36. #1986
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwillans View Post
    Viewing bitcoin as a currency is slightly missing the point. It is essentially a commodity like gold with a rarity that attracts value attributed by the market.
    That’s what it’s become because of the performance problems which are due to design decisions by the devs. There is a school of thought that this is intentional so they can solve it with their own proprietary centralised solution, which so far doesn’t seem to be that far off the truth but it’s hard to get a good picture because they usually censor any attempt to discuss it on platforms they control and turn it into a slanging match on ones they don’t.

    The original white paper was very clear that it is intended to be peer to peer electronic cash.

  37. #1987
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    I will slap myself in a minute for linking to The Guardian but this is interesting and/or depressing reading of lost Bitcoins, last line included -

    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...itcoin-account

  38. #1988
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    I will slap myself in a minute for linking to The Guardian but this is interesting and/or depressing reading of lost Bitcoins, last line included -

    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...itcoin-account
    "Cryptocurrency data firm Chainalysis said it estimated that about 20% of the existing 18.5m bitcoins appears to be lost or stranded in inaccessible wallets."

    Exactly why I'll never go near it. I can't even be trusted to type my password correctly on the laptop.

  39. #1989
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    "Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone." Satoshi Nakamoto.

  40. #1990
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000r4vh

    Money Box Live ... 15.00hrs today features cryptocurrencies
    "Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"

  41. #1991
    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    I will slap myself in a minute for linking to The Guardian but this is interesting and/or depressing reading of lost Bitcoins, last line included -

    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...itcoin-account
    Another report here (BBC though so you'll probably have to slap yourself again).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55645408

  42. #1992
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    And another:

    Bitcoin: Newport man's plea to find £210m hard drive in tip

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55658942

  43. #1993
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    And another:

    Bitcoin: Newport man's plea to find £210m hard drive in tip

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55658942
    Whole article here about people with the same problem.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/t...-fortunes.html

    The HDD will be in landfill in China or torn apart for the materials somewhere by now.

    The Iron Key guy with 2 password guesses left must be even crosser with himself...

  44. #1994
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    40k breached: Ryan, get on the blower again, it’s Lambo time!

  45. #1995
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    40k breached: Ryan, get on the blower again, it’s Lambo time!
    Hopefully you can just resurrect your previous order.

  46. #1996
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    And another:

    Bitcoin: Newport man's plea to find £210m hard drive in tip

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55658942
    Was just going to link this, on top of it he got them through mining however that works!

  47. #1997
    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Was just going to link this, on top of it he got them through mining however that works!
    Really? Mining is rather important to the Bitcoin eco-system, indeed without it it wouldn't function at all!

    Simple explanation here.

  48. #1998
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam View Post
    Hopefully you can just resurrect your previous order.
    Maybe put it on hold just for a day or two?


  49. #1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Was just going to link this, on top of it he got them through mining however that works!
    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    Really? Mining is rather important to the Bitcoin eco-system, indeed without it it wouldn't function at all!

    Simple explanation here.
    And when you've finished reading you can grab a pencil and paper so as to have a go yourself - http://www.righto.com/2014/09/mining...and-paper.html

  50. #2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    And when you've finished reading you can grab a pencil and paper so as to have a go yourself - http://www.righto.com/2014/09/mining...and-paper.html
    Interesting, but looking at that sheet of paper I think I would rather grab a spade and head over to the Newport recycling centre!


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