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  1. #1
    Craftsman scucivolo's Avatar
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    Bitcoin

    Hi there, wandering how many of us has any experience with Bitcoin.. if yes, would you like to share it with the community?


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  2. #2
    Have you seen this thread? Lot of discussion there.

    http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?386696

  3. #3
    Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Not very knowledgable about it but I do hate the whole concept of it.


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  4. #4
    Craftsman scucivolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Not very knowledgable about it but I do hate the whole concept of it.


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    Why is that?


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  5. #5
    Please can somebody explain to me how these have value - ie. what is backing the currency?

    I mean what if I were to simply issue my own currency - the Fazer - and sell it on the market? Obviously that is preposterous but I genuinely donít understand the difference...

  6. #6
    Craftsman scucivolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FazerBoy View Post
    Please can somebody explain to me how these have value - ie. what is backing the currency?

    I mean what if I were to simply issue my own currency - the Fazer - and sell it on the market? Obviously that is preposterous but I genuinely donít understand the difference...
    It has value because it something that people wants and there's a limited amount of.. backing it up means, that you buy bitcoin like you would buy anything else in the market.. you could potentially create a new currency yourself, but there again it would have no value as no one would back you up ;)


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  7. #7
    Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scucivolo View Post
    Why is that?


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    Just the security aspect. If your backup or encryption fails you lose the lot with no right to recovery. There's no consumer protection as far as I'm aware. It's also an easy option for money laundering. I can't really think of anywhere I would spend a bitcoin either? Growth has been spectacular but is it real growth - the word bubble springs to mind


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  8. #8
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    Seems a massive con to me and a lot of people who think they are clever are going to get badly burned when the bubble bursts.

    Why does the 'currency' have any value ?
    How is it backed or underwritten ?

    I just don't see how something so artificial / non-physical can have any value.

    But happy to be educated :-)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerUK View Post
    Seems a massive con to me and a lot of people who think they are clever are going to get badly burned when the bubble bursts.

    Why does the 'currency' have any value ?
    How is it backed or underwritten ?

    I just don't see how something so artificial / non-physical can have any value.

    But happy to be educated :-)
    Some see the things you have stated as benefits.

  10. #10
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerUK View Post
    Seems a massive con to me and a lot of people who think they are clever are going to get badly burned when the bubble bursts.

    Why does the 'currency' have any value ?
    How is it backed or underwritten ?

    I just don't see how something so artificial / non-physical can have any value.

    But happy to be educated :-)
    If you turned up at the bank of england with your promisary note and asked them for your actual money, what do you think actually happens?
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerUK View Post
    Seems a massive con to me and a lot of people who think they are clever are going to get badly burned when the bubble bursts.

    Why does the 'currency' have any value ?
    How is it backed or underwritten ?

    I just don't see how something so artificial / non-physical can have any value.

    But happy to be educated :-)
    Same way a Rolex PN has value. Itís parts value is minimal, but people pay fortunes based on rarity and demand. Thereís a limited number of Bitcoin and demand is high. So values are soaring. But...moods change.

    I suspect that nation states will start to object to currencies they canít control. China looks like the first.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Just the security aspect. If your backup or encryption fails you lose the lot with no right to recovery. There's no consumer protection as far as I'm aware. It's also an easy option for money laundering. I can't really think of anywhere I would spend a bitcoin either? Growth has been spectacular but is it real growth - the word bubble springs to mind


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    Security. It's pretty secure. Main risk is user error like forgetting your pin or losing your seed. Storing your coins on exchanges is riskier but then don't do it.

    I struggle to spend my gold bar but the price has gone up steadily over the years. Bitcoin won't be used for buying a loaf of bread anytime soon. Large transactions and storing money. While ever there are crazy governments controlling currency cryptos will have a place

  13. #13
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Just the security aspect. If your backup or encryption fails you lose the lot with no right to recovery. There's no consumer protection as far as I'm aware. It's also an easy option for money laundering. I can't really think of anywhere I would spend a bitcoin either? Growth has been spectacular but is it real growth - the word bubble springs to mind
    Some risk is involved for sure.

    In terms of currency it was never envisioned to be used for your weekly supermarket shop.

    As an 'investment' it has merits - I have a very small amount invested to see how it plays out. If I were to cash in today I would (after a few months) have made around £100 on a £360 invest after fees.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  14. #14
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    I got involved recently putting £10k into it back in September. To put it into watch perspectives I could quite easily buy a 5711 if i cashed out.

  15. #15
    Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Some risk is involved for sure.

    In terms of currency it was never envisioned to be used for your weekly supermarket shop.

    As an 'investment' it has merits - I have a very small amount invested to see how it plays out. If I were to cash in today I would (after a few months) have made around £100 on a £360 invest after fees.
    I understand that. My point re the bubble tho. Bitcoin from 2013 to 2016 would have lost you money. From 2016 to 2017 its soared so question is - is it cyclical is a drop coming but then you could say that about any "investment"


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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Just the security aspect. If your backup or encryption fails you lose the lot with no right to recovery. There's no consumer protection as far as I'm aware. It's also an easy option for money laundering. I can't really think of anywhere I would spend a bitcoin either? Growth has been spectacular but is it real growth - the word bubble springs to mind
    Jura accept Bitcoin so you can spend it on a watch!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    Jura accept Bitcoin so you can spend it on a watch!
    Interesting, that is good to know.

  18. #18
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    Im keen to explore this as well - but it confuses me massively and as such need to do more research

  19. #19
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    I've been investing in Crypto currencies for a while now and believe me there's still massive room for growth long term. Check out this guy's blog it's a great place to start. www.whatbitcoindid.com/

  20. #20
    Coincidentally, just finished writing an article about bitcoin for my employer - should be able to knock off work early!

  21. #21
    Craftsman scucivolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kozza6 View Post
    Coincidentally, just finished writing an article about bitcoin for my employer - should be able to knock off work early!
    What sort of article? give me more info XD


    i've never trade, and never will, since i don't have any knowledge about it.. but i did invest a few hundred quid a few months ago.. and i'm impressed in the gain that it had since.. +120%, it's absurd!


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  22. #22
    More about the history and its recent path to potentially gaining legitimacy as a genuine retail investment product.
    Not there yet but the CME plans to launch bitcoin futures shortly. An ETF is an inevitability which will really launch it in the retail world.
    A five year investment in bitcoin would have returned 65,000% through to October 2017! Although some suggest it has similarities to tulip fever in that it feed investor hysteria and the peaks are further accentuated by massive speculation. Bull market only really returned last year after a two-year hiatus.
    Cheers.

  23. #23
    Craftsman scucivolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kozza6 View Post
    More about the history and its recent path to potentially gaining legitimacy as a genuine retail investment product.
    Not there yet but the CME plans to launch bitcoin futures shortly. An ETF is an inevitability which will really launch it in the retail world.
    A five year investment in bitcoin would have returned 65,000% through to October 2017! Although some suggest it has similarities to tulip fever in that it feed investor hysteria and the peaks are further accentuated by massive speculation. Bull market only really returned last year after a two-year hiatus.
    Cheers.
    alright so it was about commercialisation of the coin.. interesting! i don't see it happening anytime soon though, judging by what i've been reading about scaling problems within the bitcoin blockchain.. any idea as per what you'll be doing in the days approaching the 16th of Nov before the hard fork happens?


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  24. #24
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    Wow , 12% gains today . Looks incredibly risky but looking at its growth in the last couple
    Of years it seems like something Iíd like to get into with a bit of spare money


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  25. #25
    Craftsman scucivolo's Avatar
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    Just beware of the Hard Fork taking place on the 16th of Nov


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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by scucivolo View Post
    Just beware of the Hard Fork taking place on the 16th of Nov


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    No hard fork on the 16th Nov. It has been cancelled. At least for now.

  27. #27
    Can trading be considered self-employment so that profits are taxed as income not capital gains?

  28. #28
    Master amnesia's Avatar
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    BTC is nearing $11k...

    wish I'd bought some more when they were at £100

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by amnesia View Post
    BTC is nearing $11k...

    wish I'd bought some more when they were at £100
    Can only dream of £100 price! Still, you live and learn...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Can trading be considered self-employment so that profits are taxed as income not capital gains?
    Possibly, assuming HMRC treat crypto trading as they do currency trading (no CGT liability but profits treated as income if you are considered to be trading).
    I suspect HMRC would treat crypto as an.asset, like gold, rather than a currency.

  31. #31
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    Bitcoin

    I know nothing about Bit Coin but I do know that if you use Twitter it may be worth following
    @haralabob, heís one of the worlds most successful sports bettors and has migrated to Bit Coin and other new wave currencyís and is very well respected


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  32. #32
    Ledger have 21% off the Nano S wallet this w/e to 'celebrate' Black Friday.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Ledger have 21% off the Nano S wallet this w/e to 'celebrate' Black Friday.
    I saw that too. Good thing I hadn't gotten round to ordering one yet!

  34. #34
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    I'm very surprised how bitcoin has captured the wider public's attention, and no doubt will continue to increase at it looks to break through US$10k, further fuelling the rush to get into this cryptocurrency.

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    Last edited by KingKitega; 29th November 2017 at 09:28.

  35. #35
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    Rumours are that Bitfinex may have (more, bigger) problems on the horizon.
    Would suggest moving funds out of Bitfinex, just in case, and especially if those funds are held in USD.

  36. #36
    Craftsman scucivolo's Avatar
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    Quick update.. the funds took less than 24hr to get from Revolut to Coinbase, and the account shows as linked.


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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by scucivolo View Post
    Quick update.. the funds took less than 24hr to get from Revolut to Coinbase, and the account shows as linked.


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    Deposit now showing in Coinbase EUR account. Took less than a day to arrive.

    Will try using it now...

  38. #38
    Craftsman Andyp1973's Avatar
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    Bitcoin

    I had a little dabble starting with £100 on the 20/11 on Plus500. Iíve got to be honest I didnít really know what I was doing so I set a few limits and thought Iíd see what happened.
    So far Iíve pulled £450 out with around £60 equity left in there. Iíve then put £100 of my profit into Bitcoin in Coinbase which currently sit at £170. Iíve had my £100 back and the other £250 has gone in the watch fund.

    Iím putting this down to a bit of common sense an amount I was prepared to lose and a LOT of beginners luck.

    I see that litcoin has exploded over the last two days. Will it continue? Who knows.




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  39. #39
    Craftsman scucivolo's Avatar
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    So Iím not the only one experiencing delays on Coinbase?
    Sent funds via Revolut (which is now showing as ďexecutedĒ), but Iíve neither received the usual email from Coinbase, nor is showing the funds on the Coinbaseís app.
    This is all very strange, because I would expect at least to have received an email by now, and surely it wasnít a mistake on my part because itís not the first time I did a BT over from Revolut to Coinbase.. shall I wait the 2-5 working days? Or start chasing the problem right away?


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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by scucivolo View Post
    So Iím not the only one experiencing delays on Coinbase?
    Sent funds via Revolut (which is now showing as ďexecutedĒ), but Iíve neither received the usual email from Coinbase, nor is showing the funds on the Coinbaseís app.
    This is all very strange, because I would expect at least to have received an email by now, and surely it wasnít a mistake on my part because itís not the first time I did a BT over from Revolut to Coinbase.. shall I wait the 2-5 working days? Or start chasing the problem right away?


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    How long have you been waiting since Revolut told you they'd sent funds?

  41. #41
    Decided to sell all my Litecoins y'day - tidy 502% return. Kept ETH and XRP for now.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPCain86 View Post
    I sold £16k on coinbase last week. Transaction happened instantly and GBP in my bank the next day.
    I will keep them in mind then, majority of the reviews online are terrible but due to the influx of investors there will no doubt be some delays/problems?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff W View Post
    Decided to sell all my Litecoins y'day - tidy 502% return. Kept ETH and XRP for now.
    It has dropped quite a bit in the last 48 hours!
    Unsure whether to jump ship and put the money from Litecoin in to ETH or hang one and see if it goes back up in the coming weeks?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff W View Post
    Decided to sell all my Litecoins y'day - tidy 502% return. Kept ETH and XRP for now.
    Well done on holding XRP.

  44. #44
    Craftsman scucivolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    How long have you been waiting since Revolut told you they'd sent funds?
    Yesterday at 19.48.
    I know SEPAs can take up to 5 working days, but surely I should have gotten an email from Coinbase stating the transaction was pending, but I didnít receive it, that is what concerns me..
    To make it worse is the lack of customer support Coinbase has.. its quite shocking how a company that deals with so much money would be so understaffed and under equipped.
    I wonder, what is the point in using such a platform to buy cryptos, if Iím forced to wait so long to get my funds in order to make the purchase?


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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by scucivolo View Post
    Yesterday at 19.48.
    I know SEPAs can take up to 5 working days, but surely I should have gotten an email from Coinbase stating the transaction was pending, but I didnít receive it, that is what concerns me..
    To make it worse is the lack of customer support Coinbase has.. its quite shocking how a company that deals with so much money would be so understaffed and under equipped.
    I wonder, what is the point in using such a platform to buy cryptos, if Iím forced to wait so long to get my funds in order to make the purchase?


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    When I've made transfers into Coinbase via Revolut, I've received an email from Revolut saying 'executed' quite quickly but have only received an email from Coinbase once its actually in the account, as opposed to one saying pending. Normally takes about a day from sending.

  46. #46
    Master petethegeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    "Oh dear, dear. This isn't normal securities trading! Think you can assume your crypto exchange is basically competent and its systems well maintained? Think again. 'I know PHP Ė how hard could running an exchange be?' isn't the best starting point."

    "You also can't assume a crypto exchange isn't going to mess you around. All manner of shenanigans that are completely illegal in proper security trading Ė bots painting the tape, wash trades, spoof orders, just front-running your customers Ė are completely normal in crypto. Your threat model is not just the other traders, it's literally the platform you are putting your money and coins into."

    https://www.coindesk.com/2017-butt-bitcoins-joke/
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    True, but what can you do?
    You could "...keep poking [it] with a stick... and show [your] love."

    https://www.coindesk.com/i-love-cryp...oin-exchanges/

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by scucivolo View Post
    Yesterday at 19.48.
    I know SEPAs can take up to 5 working days, but surely I should have gotten an email from Coinbase stating the transaction was pending, but I didnít receive it, that is what concerns me..
    To make it worse is the lack of customer support Coinbase has.. its quite shocking how a company that deals with so much money would be so understaffed and under equipped.
    I wonder, what is the point in using such a platform to buy cryptos, if Iím forced to wait so long to get my funds in order to make the purchase?


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    No need for concern, should appear by this evening.

  48. #48
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    I've read every post here over the last 2 days and if anything I'm more confused than I was when I started regarding the process of trading cryptos.

    Is there any 1 stop shop that allows you to create an account, deposit funds/buy cryptos then when the time comes sell and withdraw the funds to your current account?

    So far I'm leaning towards the coinbase/revolut solution from page 2 but coinbase don't fill me with confidence.

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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowflow View Post
    I've read every post here over the last 2 days and if anything I'm more confused than I was when I started regarding the process of trading cryptos.

    Is there any 1 stop shop that allows you to create an account, deposit funds/buy cryptos then when the time comes sell and withdraw the funds to your current account?

    So far I'm leaning towards the coinbase/revolut solution from page 2 but coinbase don't fill me with confidence.

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    I use Coinbase and Revolut. With Revolut you don't actually own the coins, but have just swapped GBP currency into coin currency.

    You gain/lose as the price rises/falls as you would had you swapped into Euros USD etc

    Easily swapped back into GBP and withdrawn should you wish.

    Coinbase is slightly more complicated, you need to transfer them funds in euros (you can do that from Revolut) and then buy your coins on their exchange which is simple.

    You can hold them there, or transfer them out to an offline wallet which is more secure.

    If you wanted to sell, you would then have to transfer back into Coinbase, sell and withdraw in Euros again

    The advantage to holding them on an offline hardware wallet is the increased security

    All the moving about sounds complicated but it's not in reality. I bought a Trezor and it was really easy to do.

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post

    Coinbase is slightly more complicated, you need to transfer them funds in euros (you can do that from Revolut) and then buy your coins on their exchange which is simple.
    Don't need to transfer funds, can buy immediately with debit (or even credit?) card.

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