Reply With QuoteThanks for that. I really enjoyed the read. Neither watch is my cup of tea to look at but I will be taking another look after this, so cheers.
Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk
Inspired by Redsox78 thread on the best watch under £2000 and a comment by Seikopath. I thought I would spend a bit of my day off doing a quick comparison of the Sinn U1 and Seiko Marinemaster 300.
Both watches are in a similar price bracket and are both tool watches aimed at professional diving, that's where the similarities end in a lot of ways.
I should stress that I am not much of a diver and neither watch has been used for more than a snorkel in warm climates.
The Cases
As most people know the Sinn in made from steel first developed for the manufacture of German Navy U212A Submarines. This steel is supposedly stronger, harder, and more resistant to corrosion and magnetic fields than standard standard Stainless Steel. Using this steel means Sinn cannot polish the case, as such all the U series watches have bead blasted cases. This is in keeping with their intended purpose and I think it looks great.
Unlike other other bead blasted cases I have owned after 8 years of wearing this watch it is still scratch/ dink/ mark free and its not even the fully tegmented case. The case is 44mm wide and approximately 16mm thick. The case back is domed this combined with the short lugs means it wears a lot smaller than the size might suggest.
The Marinemaster (MM300) is completely different in its appearance, its 42mm wide and 18mm thick. The case on the MM300 is designed to allow the wearer to have maximum movement which means it is a distinctive shape in cross section. Off the wrist the watch looks a little odd due to the shape but as soon as you put it on you understand why they have designed it so. Unlike the Sinn the MM300 has a combination of difference surfaces, angles and finishing. The polishing on the highly polished surfaces is a work of art, it is so highly polished it offers distortion free reflections, the brushed facets are wonderfully evenly brushed with quite deep striations. All in all its a much nicer finished case in my opinion. unlike the majority of watches the MM300 has a one piece case - no case back opening, the movement is inserted through the front of the case, less openings means less chance of a leak. This hints to me, that this watch has been thought about and designed to be as robust as possible.
The Dial and Hands
The Sinn U1 has one of the most distinctive dial and hand sets on sale today. They have been made with one thought in mind, legibility, the watch is extremely easy to read in all light conditions thanks to the contrast between the jet matt black dial and solid snow white hands. One gripe I have is the quality of the print on the, there is a little unevenness in junction between the white and red paint, its not too noticeable but it is there.
The dial is stark and notable for its absence of any unnecessary information. Excessive text on a dial (especially unnecessary waffle) is something that bugs me and its one of the reasons I love the U1. Text is limited to Automatik U1 the depth rating, all in a dark red colour. Made in Germany is in gloss black at the base of the dial so is invisible unless you really look for it. The date is white on back and very discrete against the dial.
The lume on the U1 dial and hands is White Superluminova C1, all white marks on the dial are lume and to be honest it is functional, nothing more, nothing less, if left under a light for a few minutes before bed it glows bright if uneven and it will be visible all night once your eyes are dark adjusted. the application of the lume on the hands is uneven leading to a mottled appearance when it glows.
The MM300 dial and hands are much more lavish in their appearance, the dial is matt black with steel surrounds for the lume plots, the date wheel is silver with black text and Seiko have added a window frame for increased legibility, the printing is crisp and clear but the dial does look a little small for the size of the watch. I think this is due to a combination of the deep set dial and the slightly raised chapter ring with minute hash marks.
There is a lot of text on the dial, not Rolex / Tudor amounts of text but there is lots, furthermore they have used a number of font types - WHY??? This is the only thing that bugs me about this watch. I count six font types, one font is in two sizes. I think it looks a bit naff to be honest.
The hands on the MM300 are a work of art, the brushing and polishing is something I don't think I have seen on another watch, its great, I am not sure why Seiko have not finished the second hand in the same manner, but it is not really noticeable on the wrist.
Lume is outstanding it glows like a torch all night, its so bright that if you walk in to a building after being out in daylight the lume will glow even under office lighting.
The Crystals
The Sinn U1 uses a flat sapphire crystal with AR coating inside and out, the external coating is prone to marks but in the right the AR coatings make the crystal seem to vanish, it is quite a thing to behold.
The MM300 uses a slightly domed Hardlex - this gives the watch a warm vintage feel similar to an acrylic crystal. The crystal has an AR coating which is perfectly functional. The crystal is set slightly lower than the bezel which protects it from knocks.
The Bezels
The U1 has a one piece 60 click bezel that uses Sinn's tegment and captive bezel technology, in theory the bezel is almost scratch proof and cannot be lost as it is held in place by screws, not clipped on like most bezels. I have no reason doubt to these claims as the watch still has its bezel and is mark free :)
There is a very small amount of play in the bezel, but the action is crisp and positive, it does need to be cleaned after being in the sea, as you can feel grime / dirt underneath it sometimes (I know you should rinse all watches down after being in the sea but beer gets in the way). The lume in the bezel is covered by clear plastic and like the lume on the dial its no more than adequate.
The MM300 also uses a one piece bezel despite its looks, the markings are a type of enamel (as far as I can tell). The Bezel is covered in black enamel and the numbers are laser cut out. The bezel has 120 clicks and again the action is positive and firm without any play, I would say the MM300 bezel is easier to grip with gloves on.
The Movements
The U1 uses a standard ETA 2824 it keeps good time at 2 seconds a day, the crown has 6 twists to screw down and the threads are thick and positive. The crown is not up to the quality of Rolex / Tudor crowns but it is close.
The MM300 uses the 8L35 which is apparently an undecorated, unadjusted grand Seiko movement. For all the claims I was distinctly unimpressed when it arrived as it was approximately 28 seconds a day fast! this has settled down to about +8, this is not too much of an issue for me as I change my watch every day that said the 50 hour power reserve is quite cool. I have taken the watch off on a Friday night and it has still been ticking on Monday morning. The crown takes 4 twist to screw down but the threads and whole crown assembly is no where near as refined as on the Sinn. In fact the crown has a bit of a wobble not unlike a Bostok when uncrewed.
The Straps.
I bought the U1 on the black rubber with large clasp. The strap is 22mm parallel and is very thick and good quality (so much so I have bought 2 more OEM straps and clasps). The large clasp helps balance the large watch head. There is a divers extension fitted but no micro adjustment, this combined with the need to cut the rubber strap means getting a good fit takes a bit of time as you don't want to cut too much off in the first instance. I have tried the bracelet on my brother in laws SDR version (2 U1s in one family!) its good quality and very heavy but I prefer the watch on rubber. The non-adjustable nature of the clasp is more apparent on the bracelet as the links are much larger than the sections you cut off the rubber strap.
The MM300 has 20mm lugs and comes with a bracelet and rubber strap as standard, so what do I wear it on? An after market crafter blue strap an use the original titanium clasp with micro adjustment. I think that tells you what I think of the Seiko supplied straps...
The bracelet uses pin and collar fixings and is a pain to add or remove links, it does look good when on the watch though as it is brushed with polished highlights. The rubber strap has Seiko's traditional waffle pattern but its stiff, non pliable and needs a bit of a boil to help it conform to the contours of the wrist. Its a shame as the rubber strap gives the watch a fantastic vintage vibe. The adjustable clasp is great and is perfectly suited to the watch. It can be adjusted on the fly but it is an example function over form.
Well there you have it, a not so quick comparison of both watches. Both will not be going anywhere soon as they both get worn a lot, that said the U1 does not get worn as much now I have the MM300. I don't see a point in picking a 'winner' as they both represent a different approach an providing a watch that will provide a similar performance, which is why they both have a place in my collection.
If you got this far, thanks for reading and I hope this may help someone make up their mind on a purchase one day. If nothing else it has kept me occupied and out of the pub for a few hours on a day off.
Cheers
John
Last edited by Sinnlover; 7th November 2017 at 18:13. Reason: added photos
Thanks for that. I really enjoyed the read. Neither watch is my cup of tea to look at but I will be taking another look after this, so cheers.
Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk
Nice write up always admired the MM 300, which I hope to own in the future.
Really want to like the U1 but the hands don’t do it for me.
Would be nice to get your thoughts on the Marathon SAR which I believe you own also.
Thanks.
Last edited by barryw; 7th November 2017 at 18:18.
Interesting to read your opinions of two watches I admire, but will never likely own as they are both just too big for me - particularly the MM300 at a thickness of 18mm.
I was initially not a fan of the look of the Sinn lego hands (or in-fact their syringe hands or the pointed minute hand on the EZM1) but have grown to appreciate that it is much easier to read an accurate 'between-minutes' time with a fine point on the minute hand and extending fully to the outer edges of the dial. This principle of function leading form gives me a lot of respect for Sinn as a brand.
For me, the Sinn wins every category!
If they'd just make a no date version, it'd be in my collection
U1 owner for years and thinking about a MM300, so thank you for the comparison!
The MSAR (Canadian issued to troops who protected the Winter Olympics apparently and one of 500) could easily hold its own in this company.Originally Posted by barryw
The watch is obviously a lot cheaper that the MM300 and U1 (or it least it was when I got hold of it well before they were sold to the general public). And it has a different feel more like the CWC divers watches.
I might do a review of the MSAR, JSAR, CWC Auto and CWC SBS as I think this would be a much better comparison. Watch this space!
Look forward to that review!
Thanks.
An interesting read, thanks.
I've had a U1 and have an MM300. That doesn't necessarily make the MM300 with me. I had the U1 for approx two years and I've only had the MM300 a month or so but, right now, I wouldn't swap it for a U1.
One addition on the case section - the MM300, at least in SBDX017 form, has a Diashield case. I don't know how this compares to U-Boat stahl in hardness/resilience though.
I have the earlier version so no Diashield. I would be intrested to hear how scratch resistant the the coating is.
I had a U1 SDR and although I never marked the bead blasted case, I did manage to scratch the black painted bezel. By the time I sold it, the bezel,had collected quite a few. I also agree with you that the lume on the U1 is adequate but nothing special.
Great write up!
Enjoyed reading this. Expected a different conclusion based on your nickname but it was a nice objective read. Only have the MM300 and recognise what you write. To me the overall vintage vibe also adds to my admiration. Like buying a NOS vintage watch. Top heavy but so much to love.
Enjoyed that OP...Thank you.
Great post, great pictures - cheers for that
Really great write and two good options for comparison. I’ve had a MM300 in the past and agree with you re straps/bracelet and clasp. The ‘head’ is miles ahead of what the watch comes with.
The only thing that annoyed me with the MM300 was how slow the minute and hour hands were to turn when you’re setting the watch. One full turn of the crown seemed to do half what it does on my other watches.
Having said that the MM300 is one of the watches which after selling I promised myself I’d buy another of someday.
Fantastic read thank you, the U1 is one of my favourite watches just for being that bit different than others, I’ve often wondered about an MM. cracking comparison
I was at a recent Get together in Norwich and had my Sinn U1T on bracelet with me. I’d never seen an MM300 before in the flesh and was amazed how small it seemed in comparison to the U1. I have large wrists and it actually seemed a bit too small for me - the dial in particular. Lovely case but very small and thick compared to the large flat U1. I think you’d be hard pushed to find 2 watches so different in execution!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
An interesting read, cheers. I have a U1 and have lusted after an MM300 for a while but somehow been unable to justify it so easily, I have no idea why! An upcoming house sale might change that!
Thanks for an interesting read. I agree that the Sinn strap / large clasp works well as I had worn my U2 for over 10 years straight on the rubber. I now have my Sinn U1000 on the same set up. I keep thinking about getting the bracelet... from what I know, there is some micro-adjustment on the bracelet clasp. There is also a difference between the strap & bracelet for the U1,U2,UX and the U1000 which has deeper case / lugs.
Great read, thanks for taking time out to write.
Lovely "real world" review and comparison. Many thanks.
mate are u iz on crack yeh
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Thanks for the post OP. I enjoyed reading that.
Never felt the love for Sinn, but that opens my eyes a bit.
However, now I am looking forward to going home and getting my MM300 on the wrist
Superb write up - exactly what we're on this forum for!
I have a Sinn (albeit a 556i) and a Seiko (SKX009)....I think for me it's the MM300 that wins it, and the only watch I truly want now. I have more expensive watches and always wonder if actually I woudl only wear them, specifically because I know they cost more!
Again - excellent write up! :-)
Excellent write up!
Absolutely love my U1 SDR, don't think I'll ever sell it.
Thanks for this mate, I’ve been considering the U1S since it came out and reading this has been really informative.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the comments
I am glad some people found it an interesting read
Apologies for the spelling and grammar (I have just read it back) I promise to do better next time.
Enjoyed the read, thanks :-) I like these both and they are both keepers for me but IMO the MM300 is leagues ahead for similar money.
The Grand Seiko 8L35 movement in the MM300 is decorated. Mine runs about the same as yours. The bezel has a lacquer finish - that is utterly stunning in real life and has one of the nicest actions around. The monocoque case is exceptionally well done. The hands are exceptional and the lume is first class.
The standard ETA movement in my U1 is about 7 seconds a day slow. The bezel is tegimented but the case and bracelet aren't unless you order them tegimented. The submarine steel is more corrosion resistant than 316 steel but I find it isn't very scratch resistant in the bead-blasted finish Sinn use (see the buckle below).
I like the 'clunky' bezel action on the U1 but the small markings are pretty hard to read at a glance underwater. I like the hand shape too but the finish is very average and the lume is not very good at all. Then there is the external AR. Just no. Not on a dive watch. Mine is a scratched up mess these days :-(
Some pics:
Thank you for the post , a very interesting read . I like both watches , but the Seiko edges it for me .
Such a nice and thorough review! Really mice to finally see some nice, original and extremely interesting content on TZ again.
I was getting a bit bored with all the should I get a Rolex and how long is the que for a sub!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Lovely review and this is what TZ is about.
Owned a MM300 but top heavy and too thick for me but never owned a U1 and this review may tempt me.
Alot of people say this as a criticism of the mm.... In fact I think it might be the most popular criticism of this watch out there.
I only think if seiko had solved the bracelet issue then this might go some way to resolving this.... As it is, i think of the mm as a 'head only' watch
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Think Strapcode do quality aftermarket bracelets which may address this issue.
Thanks for taking the time to post.
There's been a few really interesting none Rolex threads recently. Long may it continue.
It is something that you get used to within 48 hours - I have a smallish wrist but don't find it unwieldy or difficult to get a good and comfortable fit with the bracelet. If we compare that to the Glidelock then yes, one can be critical, but in the context of the price, design and relative craftsmanship, the watch really is superb.
I do intend to try the U1 one day - it's unique design and Sinn quality make it highly desirable, just like the MM300.
Thanks for the write up and pictures.
I have only had the MM300 and although I liked it a lot it just wasn’t for me. I preferred others in my modest collection and rather than have it sit there I moved it on here.
I do like the use of materials in the Sinn but just can’t deal with the odd hands. Each to their own though.
Best regards to all,
Ben
Thanks for the kind word all
I hope to do another review soon (time permitting. I was supprised how long they take)
In reference to the external AR marking - I have removed the external AR from my Sinn 903 using a cape cod. It improved the watch no end.
Fantastic post OP, great write up and pictures. Reignited my desire for an MM now. Looks brilliant on that rubber.
Nice one
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Very interesting comparison. Ta. The mm300 is hard to resist. It's the most authentic feeling (if that makes sense) diver in my 30 diver collection.
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
It is appreciated that you took the time and trouble to make this useful comparison.
Someone here once posted that we buy multiple watches because of how they make us feel.
I would be interested to hear what your impression of each is, what they are like to live with and when you might choose one over the other.
Cheers though.
Love the sinn
U1 for me but both great watches. If i were to get the sinn I’d be going for the all black case tho. That is one tidy instrument.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posting Permissions
