Reply With QuoteYou would be better offering on here for sale surely rather than giving a dealer a chance at extra profit?
I may be part exchanging my 1967 Rolex 5513 - it is in really good condition.
I can post images on here - but how can I get a "fair" part exchange valuation
Do I need to go to a specialist and get a written valuation or similar ... to be fair to both sides
The watch was bought from a very reputable Swiss dealer who had "serviced" the watch etc., - the stainless parts are unmarked as it the glass and bezel
it was discussed on here:
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...e-meters-first
"Meters first (non-gilt) so between 66 and 70.
Strap looks like a riveted 7206 (which would be correct for the watch). End pieces are typically stamped "80". The clasp should also be stamped with a date.
I would not take back off (you do not have the correct tool), but would guess its stamped either 66 or 67 (as most of these watches are)
Looks a nice example based on the picture (very similar to mine - which is 1.7M serial number (67) and has a 67 case back. The clasp is stamped 69, but most likely sold in the 70's.)"
and I think that the conclusion was:
a). 1967 watch - serial number will confirm
b). "Original" face - but a few bits of "paint" missing
c). "Original" Crown
d). Bracelet "original"
d). Bezel has been changed - to one that would have been on a 1980's watch or a Mk 3 - but not a service replacement - but not "original"
By "original" I mean what was or should have been on the original watch
Last edited by BillN; 30th October 2017 at 13:19.
You would be better offering on here for sale surely rather than giving a dealer a chance at extra profit?
It is not a dealer deal - that's why I want a "fair" valuation to be correct to both sidesOriginally Posted by Tomaitch
some images
stamped 2 67
Last edited by BillN; 30th October 2017 at 17:24.
If you are willing to sell, I am interested (have no idea about proper value either, but I am willing to settle for a price in the middle of the dealer bid/offer margin, which should give both parties the most of it).
Thanks - I will of course keep this in mind - it was a gift from my wife ........... I would rather keep it ....... but I never wear it, have worn it maybe 5 times for a few hours ..... we will just have to see how things go
Last edited by BillN; 30th October 2017 at 13:24.
Lucky you. Only thing my wife's ever given me is grief.
things "go around" - she fancies a "new" (used) car ........ to replace her "59" Reg A Classe Merc ...... which, although in great condition is now worth "bugger all"
Run the car into the ground and keep the sub. Seriously. Any car you buy will be worth zip in a few years, the 5513 may well have appreciated.
Sent from my SM-G920F using TZ-UK mobile app
I would have thought about 6k-7k, the 7206 bracelet on its own is worth about 1k, bit out of touch with prices but that would be my guess.
Thanks Bob
so you are saying £5k/£6k for the watch and £1k for the bracelet?
Yep, I would say no less than 6k for the watch and the bracelet is worth 1k all day long, I have one but I am certainly no expert, I would hang fire until some of the more knowledgeable members chip in as I could be underselling it, 5513 metres first are very sought after.
I would suggest that private sale would be around the £6/7k mark including the bracelet. IMO it would be closer to £8k if the dial didn't have the slight damage to some of the indices around the case. Condition is everything on these older models and although sometimes unavoidable they do have an effect on the value.
Again this is only my gut feeling and happy to be corrected by those more knowledgeable
Have a similar one 67 fully original bar hands were changed in it's life . Full set from widow of original owner .hands are still tritium but slightly lighter .
Hard to find good 5513 now below 6 7k
Had it movement serviced seals gaskets and bracelet rebrushed and left case untouched as it's super sharp and strong .
Last edited by alanski; 30th October 2017 at 16:14.
Few things that detract from the value, the condition of the dial, the non matching bezel insert, poor polishing of the case. My best bet would be 6K max for this one, might be even a little lower than that.
No sure how you can see that the case is poorly polished from the posted images........ it looks perfect to me when I have the watch in hand ....... the rest of your points I have mentioned in my initial posting
so you are saying that the loose watch is worth less than £5k
Last edited by BillN; 30th October 2017 at 16:04.
From the photo of the caseback, I can see the case has been polished quite a bit, the side of the case is nearly flush with the caseback. Also the lines of the case are not symmetrical, the left side (viewed from the back) is slightly more rounded than the right side. From the pictures of the front side of the case, I can clearly see the lugs are pretty rounded, which also tells me the watch has been polished by someone who didn't exactly knew what they were doing. It's not strange that the watch has been polished over time, but it does detract from the value in my opinion.
I'm not saying the watch loose is worth less than 5K. I think the watch as is (without box or papers, I presume?), with the American rivet is worth around 6K. You could find an interested buyer who is willing to pay more, but you were asking for a fair valuation.
I think you could actually get more by selling the bracelet separately. There are people willing to pay upwards of a 1000 GBP for the bracelet alone. After that you could sell the watch as head only.
Okay I'll through open "Pandora's box".
1966 meters first with original strap. Hammer price £25,000.
It was my firm which sold it, went to Italy. Blew me away.
Okay condition is slightly better, dial and the bezel insert looks originial, but.......
Auction Result
Well its a 5512 and not a 5513, the serial no. dates it to 1962 and not 1966.
when you say that "the side of the case is nearly flush with the caseback" what do you mean?
Last edited by BillN; 30th October 2017 at 17:24.
Think he means this one (the non-crown side)
My photobucket is acting up, so I can't upload a picture to show you the difference. What I mean is that the case, when unpolished, has a larger space between the side of the case and the edge of the caseback (on the 9 o'clock side). Your watch has lost quite a bit of steel with every polishing, so the side of the case is now nearly touching the edge of the caseback. If you would polish any further, you would be polishing the edge of the caseback.
Exactly. And notice the line going round the edge (a mm or two from the edge) of the caseback? You can see clearly that when you follow that line, the left side is off compared to the right side.Think he means this one (the non-crown side)
Last edited by SuperC; 30th October 2017 at 17:35.
This is a gilt dial not really a good comparison.
Thanks - I seeThink he means this one (the non-crown side)
I see you mean this edge
but looking on the web ........... all the ones I can find look like this ... but few examples of the back in images
For example
https://shop.analogshift.com/product...bracelet-joshs
and
http://watcholdtimes.de/wp-content/u...2-modified.jpg
have you an example of how it should be? .... should that line go all the way around and be clearly shown?
Good info for anyone looking to buy a 5513
Last edited by BillN; 30th October 2017 at 18:25.
Bill yours has been polished but not back to the caseback as your last photo shows. Its a nice watch. Mine for reference.
Thanks Bob ........just been trying to measure it, (the loss of metal) ....... but it is difficultBill yours has been polished but not back to the caseback as your last photo shows. Its a nice watch. Mine for reference.
The watch was "polished" when I bought it as all the metal parts look "as new"
Now onto the lugs ...... which are "rounded" apparently ........ but comparing them with my other Sub ...... they look OK ... as the 5513 is smaller, lighter and more delicate than the later Subs ......... although I am quite handy with a camera - they are not easy to photo
May as well get a good full description of the watch then if I do exchange or sell the buyer knows exactly what he is getting
not had the bravery yet to take the bracelet off, (I am trying to find a plastic 'whatever" to push the pins in), and I suppose I should get the back taken off to photograph that
Can the missing paint of 3 mins, plus others be repaired?
I cannot see the differences in bezel inserts?
Last edited by BillN; 30th October 2017 at 19:11.
This thread is proving to be fascinating - lots of things to be learned.Bill yours has been polished but not back to the caseback as your last photo shows. Its a nice watch. Mine for reference.
Not wanting to hijack the thread at all, but if I follow correctly then presumably my 5513 has not been polished - or if it has not too much:
Im only trying to point out in detail what would be crucial for the value of your watch, but please dont take my word for it...
A friend of mine is selling his 5513, which is unpolished, fully original, the bracelet has no stretch and the dial, hands and insert are perfect. Hes asking around 7K. For comparison.
Good luck.
Just out of interest is it a metres first and is the bracelet a 7206.
No offence taken - I would rather use this thread to go through the watch in detail which should help any buyer of a 5513 .......... the area of value has been defined at £5k to £7k ....... so that's good .... although I still would like to have the back taken off to photograph the inside
Yes, it is. Otherwise it wouldnt really be a good comparison 😉. Ive seen many, many Rolexes in the time Ive been collecting and his is the nicest example Ive ever seen.
Recently sold a 1966 mf with some lume flaking, 93150 bracelet, decent case and recent service for EUR 7500.
Exactly the info you need.
^^^Is this for a MF Sub with rivet bracelet?
I wouldn’t have thought that you will find many MF Subs with rivet bracelet for sale at 6k. I’d say it’s a 7k plus watch, polished or not.
Edit - beaten too it by Bobdog
I'd recommend you sign-up to the Vintage Rolex Forum and ask the question there. You'll also see actual watch sales on their 'Vintage Rolex Market' classified section.
Maybe we can continue this thread to discuss all parts of the watch
Here's an image of the face
Two comments have been made
a). There is paint missing on minute markers - 3 mins, around 30 mins, the half markers plus a couple of others - presumably this is normal and just age related Q: can this be easily replaced by say an expert?
b). The Bezel insert is from a 1980's model, a Mk V 5513 - Q: can someone put my watch against a 5513 from 1967 to show me the difference?
any other comments on the face would be useful
Close up images do bring out every detail - which aren't necessarily seen with the naked eye!!!
This is the "right" 5513 M/F
http://www.5513mattedial.com/MetersFirst.html
Face looks OK .... L in Rolex - 66 in feet - “SWISS - T < 25” across a five minute "hash" marks
I see the differences in the bezel inserts - the "0" - zero's, minute markers and numbers are thicker in the earlier model
Last edited by BillN; 31st October 2017 at 13:13.
The hole in the 5 should be a rectangle but yours is a square. Not sure how else to explain it
Here they are side by side to show the difference in the bezel inserts
second image courtesy of the web site mentioned above
I see the differences in the bezel inserts - the "0" - zero's, minute markers and numbers are thicker in the earlier model
so is the one on the left a Maxi V Dial bezel insert??
Last edited by BillN; 31st October 2017 at 13:14.
Here they are side by side to show the difference in the bezel inserts
second image courtesy of the web site mentioned above
I see the differences in the bezel inserts - the "0" - zero's, minute markers and numbers are thicker in the earlier model
so is the one on the left a Maxi V Dial bezel insert??
The 5 in 50 is also different, the correct insert should be a 'long 5'. You can see on your insert that both halves of the 5 appear equal lengths where as the one on the right the bottom of the 5 appears elongated (hence long 5). I believe that the long 5 insert is generally a MK2
Regarding your question about the missing paint to the minute markers, yes this is generally to do with age and where the dial has been removed / moved in the case. Sometimes this can be unavoidable but it does have an effect on the value.
It can probably be repaired but my honest opinion is to leave it alone. Only thing worse than slight damage to a dial is damage that has been refinished IMO
Hope this helps ?
Yep - really useful and thanks
fascinating ..........I can see why they are "collectable"
Nearly there guys
Looking at the Bracelet, which looks new - so must have been carefully polished, obviously it could be a replacement, as any part could be, but I believe it is "original" to the watch if the watch is 1967
It has the following marks
- 2 with a 67 under, on the rough side of the inside clasp ....... is this a date .....i.e. 2nd quarter of 1967 ... you need a loop to see this
- 65 on the end links
- 7206 0n the inside on one of the links
marks on the links are my finger prints
Is this panel clasp correct?
and lastly the crown ...... I am told this it is the "original" (type) and not a replacement as the (service) replacement has three pips
Last edited by BillN; 31st October 2017 at 15:39.
Quick pic of mine, the insert is a mk3, recently serviced by Rolex so the case is freshly polished. Will give you some idea of a comparison with yours.
so is that Maxi lll Dial insert from a "feet" first, Bob?Quick pic of mine, the insert is a mk3, recently serviced by Rolex so the case is freshly polished. Will give you some idea of a comparison with yours.
EBay is never going to be the same as I look through 5513's for Sale
Yep I would imagine so, the mk1 and mk2 inserts are virtually impossible to get and cost shed loads, the metres first would originally have had the mk2 or long5/kissing 4 insert.
Good points with yours, Original crown, metres first, and that fantastic bracelet. Iwouldnt worry about anything as its a good example of a 50 year old watch which is rarely available, even with its slight problems it is still 6k+.
Thanks Bob, I think that I have changed my mind and it is a keeper ....... in fact this thread has set me off and I may sell some of my other stuff and buy another 5513 ...... they seem to be good things to have ....... rather than money earning no interest .. at least with a watch like this the dividend is in appreciating it even if it would only be worn a few times
at least I now have a summary of the watch - just keep confirmation on the clasp as I cannot find one like it
The only similar one I can find is this which sold for £2k+ albeit in the US ..... but has stretch and wear ... 37 bids
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1968-Role...p2047675.l2557
EBay is interesting?
Last edited by BillN; 31st October 2017 at 15:59.
I think you are doing the right thing by keeping it but I wouldn’t be swayed by e bay asking prices, it’s one thing asking 9k and it’s another thing getting it. As you say it’s money in the bank and that’s the route I went down, it’s surprising how quickly a little nest egg appreciates particularly over the last couple of years plus it’s interesting learning about the various models. Good Luck.
Your clasp code is the year it was manufactured, I have the identical one but it’s a 66 year.
Last edited by bobdog; 31st October 2017 at 16:00.
I only look at EBay SOLD prices Bob ........ and it looks as if the bracelet is worth £2k
so the "kissing 40" would have been original Bob
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROLEX-SUBM....c100005.m1851
Yep they tend to be the early ones but even with them their were variations depending on the manufacturer, I tend to keep away from them because of the cost so my knowledge is a bit limited. I tend to go down the route that if it looks good on the watch then I am happy.
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