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Thread: Grail watches that didn't live up to the dream

  1. #51
    Master gunner's Avatar
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    B&M Capeland Diver. Tracked one down years after being captivated by the titanium case/kevlar dial/1000m in an airport.

    Unfortunately, I always found it incredibly uncomfortable, so it had to go.

    Last edited by gunner; 13th May 2024 at 12:07.

  2. #52
    Wouldnít say it was a grail but I was desperate to try a Sinn U1 for a long time. Once I did I couldnít have been more underwhelmed. Such a shame as I still look at pics and canít work out why I didnít like it


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  3. #53
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    SBDX001.

    A forum favourite and a beautiful piece in every way, and I longed for one. I did buy one eventually and was immediately disappointed. Far too top heavy, flopped around like an old sock, even on a heavier, third-party bracelet.

    Just didn't work for me. I still look at them and think 'oooooh', they look so amazing.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by weaselid View Post
    Had hundreds of sub £1000 watches through my hands (mainly Seiko). All the while lusting for a Rolex oyster perpetual 39mm. Had a bit of cash spare, so I pulled the trigger. It arrived and was everything I dreamt it to be. Perfect size, weight, readability..... Absolutely perfect. One problem...... I was scared to wear it. Not getting robbed, just damaging it. I could not live with wearing something that expensive. I then realised something about myself. I don't want to own anything that I can not replace reasonably quickly (except a house or car). I'm happier wearing a Seiko or Nomos or a Hamilton. The concept of a 'grail' watch has left me. I'm enjoying my hobby in a price bracket that matches my lifestyle and income (school teacher). Also, the pleasure I get from an Orient Bambino 38mm is pretty close to the pleasure received from a 'luxury' brand. This realisation (for me) has made this hobby more enjoyable. I'm not interested in trading up all the time.

    Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk
    I appreciate what you are saying. Barring a windfall, I would have to sell my dozen affordables and then scrimp and save to be able to afford one £5k+ watch. I do not think I would be afraid to wear it, but I imagine the enjoyment may not last long, no matter how tempting the idea of an exit watch may be. Still, knowing all of this, I am almost certainly headed in this direction.

  5. #55
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    Planet Ocean - fancied one for years, but could never quite reconcile the cost with the content. When my mum passed in 2022, and to the surprise of all concerned, she left a little money in her will. Rather than fritter it away on esssentials, I decided to buy a P.O., and it being 2022 I overpaid for it despite it coming from SC. That's fine, it wasn't bought as an investment.
    First impressions were "Wow! Shiny!", it's a finely executed and blingy beast with a great-looking movement - even my wife (who is usually wholly indifferent), was impressed.
    Second impressions were "This is RIDICULOUSLY tall for a 3-hander!", and "Perhaps a bit too shiny..." - meaning legibility can be patchy. The long-winded date-setting was annoying too...
    Again, you can get accustomed to anything, but within a couple of days I began to suspect timekeeping was poor. However, since it was a high-days-and-holidays-only purchase, and I had a lot of other **** to deal with at the time, it was months before I was sure that not only was timekeeping actually terrible, but that it was also incapable of holding any significant power reserve... Yep, I'd bought a broken watch.
    I still have it, it still doesn't work, I never wear it, I can't sell it, and the high costs and extreme unreliability of Omega's servicing means it just sits there depressing the hell out of me...
    And that's the story of my first and last Omega.

  6. #56
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    In my experience I don't think any so called grail watches can possibly live up to your expectations and I've had most stuff.

    Once it's in your hands it's just another watch.

    Of course the in the original search for the holy grail the journey was the important part - just as it is with watches.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

  7. #57
    For me it was the OMEGA Seamaster Planet Ocean 600M Co-Axial Chronometer Chronograph, I had the Seamaster 300 chronograph which I loved but always wanted the planet ocean but when I eventually bought one I hated it, Sold it within 2 week's.
    It just wasn't for me.
    Now I don't have any grail thoughts and just buy as and when something takes my fancy.


    Sent from a technical device

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Planet Ocean - fancied one for years, but could never quite reconcile the cost with the content. When my mum passed in 2022, and to the surprise of all concerned, she left a little money in her will. Rather than fritter it away on esssentials, I decided to buy a P.O., and it being 2022 I overpaid for it despite it coming from SC. That's fine, it wasn't bought as an investment.
    First impressions were "Wow! Shiny!", it's a finely executed and blingy beast with a great-looking movement - even my wife (who is usually wholly indifferent), was impressed.
    Second impressions were "This is RIDICULOUSLY tall for a 3-hander!", and "Perhaps a bit too shiny..." - meaning legibility can be patchy. The long-winded date-setting was annoying too...
    Again, you can get accustomed to anything, but within a couple of days I began to suspect timekeeping was poor. However, since it was a high-days-and-holidays-only purchase, and I had a lot of other **** to deal with at the time, it was months before I was sure that not only was timekeeping actually terrible, but that it was also incapable of holding any significant power reserve... Yep, I'd bought a broken watch.
    I still have it, it still doesn't work, I never wear it, I can't sell it, and the high costs and extreme unreliability of Omega's servicing means it just sits there depressing the hell out of me...
    And that's the story of my first and last Omega.
    Why don't you get in touch with Paul, (walkerwerk1958), his pricing is very reasonable. Sticking point could be the co-axial escapement, worth a PM though.
    Your Omega is to good to languish in a drawer, never to be worn again.


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  9. #59
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    I donít think Paul wants to work on co-axial mvts anymore.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  10. #60
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    I overpaid for it despite it coming from SC.
    Not another FTF in the Blind Beggar

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I donít think Paul wants to work on co-axial mvts anymore.
    Did say.... sticking point might be co-axial in my response.


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  12. #62
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    For me itís been 2 watches so far
    1. The Tag Monaco ĎGulfí. Weíre the same age our 50th birthday was on the horizon and I had some disposable funds after some house selling/ buying. We were on a holiday in Vancouver and the wife points at a TH boutique and says didnít you want one of those? In I go and the really helpful sales guy finds the exact model Iím after. I put it on my wrist and meh it just doesnít feel right, lugs too short, too high of my wrist, just not right. I immediately take it of and after apologising say itís not for me and go on my way.
    Upon return I ordered a Ulysse Nardin Dual Time, which was another Ďgrailí for me, blind from Chrono 24. Loved it the second I put it on and still have it.

    2. The Omega Aqua Terra world time. God what a lovely thing this is, even now I know itís not for me I still lust after it. Iíd just started a new, significantly better paying job and wanted to mark the occasion. This was perfect, in to the local Omega Boutique I go and again as luck would have it they have exactly the model I want on the bracelet. As soon as I held it I knew it want for me. Biggest issue was that it was illegible to my knackered eyes. Then there was the bracelet, no this is a personal opinion but I put the bracelet on my Eterna Tangaroa significantly better in quality feel than Omegas, shocking at nearly a 20x price disparity.
    One again I made my excuses and left. Strangely, again a UN was purchased from the now defunct Bicester boutique, this time a Special Edition Maxi Marine Diver at an insane discount.

    Honourable mention to The PAM 321. Bought last year, first impressions were not great then it had power reserve issues. Back to WoS it went for fixing and almost rejection but I got a few straps from sale corner and suddenly it became my go to watch.

    Iím now in a sustaining phase with my collection. I have a single outstanding want but the time is not currently right.

  13. #63
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nealywheelie View Post
    Why don't you get in touch with Paul, (walkerwerk1958), his pricing is very reasonable. Sticking point could be the co-axial escapement, worth a PM though.
    Your Omega is to good to languish in a drawer, never to be worn again.
    Agree with your last line, and at some point I'll slap myself into action, but as S-J points out I don't think Paul can get the parts, never mind the ballache for coaxials, plus (unless I dreamed it) I think Paul said in one thread he wanted to pack it all in.

    FWIW, I believe there are other independents who can do the work.

    __________


    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Not another FTF in the Blind Beggar
    Chortle!

    I suspect the truth is rough treatment by postie was the issue, plus these movements seem problem-prone.

  14. #64
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Planet Ocean - fancied one for years, but could never quite reconcile the cost with the content. When my mum passed in 2022, and to the surprise of all concerned, she left a little money in her will. Rather than fritter it away on esssentials, I decided to buy a P.O., and it being 2022 I overpaid for it despite it coming from SC. That's fine, it wasn't bought as an investment.
    First impressions were "Wow! Shiny!", it's a finely executed and blingy beast with a great-looking movement - even my wife (who is usually wholly indifferent), was impressed.
    Second impressions were "This is RIDICULOUSLY tall for a 3-hander!", and "Perhaps a bit too shiny..." - meaning legibility can be patchy. The long-winded date-setting was annoying too...
    Again, you can get accustomed to anything, but within a couple of days I began to suspect timekeeping was poor. However, since it was a high-days-and-holidays-only purchase, and I had a lot of other **** to deal with at the time, it was months before I was sure that not only was timekeeping actually terrible, but that it was also incapable of holding any significant power reserve... Yep, I'd bought a broken watch.
    I still have it, it still doesn't work, I never wear it, I can't sell it, and the high costs and extreme unreliability of Omega's servicing means it just sits there depressing the hell out of me...
    And that's the story of my first and last Omega.
    Hard to believe a watch like that isn't worth getting serviced by Omega. Planet Ocean prices are still quite strong.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  15. #65
    Grand Master Passenger's Avatar
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    Something of a cautionary tale, thanks for sharing Earl.

  16. #66
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Hard to believe a watch like that isn't worth getting serviced by Omega. Planet Ocean prices are still quite strong.
    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Planet Ocean - fancied one for years, but could never quite reconcile the cost with the content. When my mum passed in 2022, and to the surprise of all concerned, she left a little money in her will. Rather than fritter it away on esssentials, I decided to buy a P.O., and it being 2022 I overpaid for it despite it coming from SC. That's fine, it wasn't bought as an investment.
    First impressions were "Wow! Shiny!", it's a finely executed and blingy beast with a great-looking movement - even my wife (who is usually wholly indifferent), was impressed.
    Second impressions were "This is RIDICULOUSLY tall for a 3-hander!", and "Perhaps a bit too shiny..." - meaning legibility can be patchy. The long-winded date-setting was annoying too...
    Again, you can get accustomed to anything, but within a couple of days I began to suspect timekeeping was poor. However, since it was a high-days-and-holidays-only purchase, and I had a lot of other **** to deal with at the time, it was months before I was sure that not only was timekeeping actually terrible, but that it was also incapable of holding any significant power reserve... Yep, I'd bought a broken watch.
    I still have it, it still doesn't work, I never wear it, I can't sell it, and the high costs and extreme unreliability of Omega's servicing means it just sits there depressing the hell out of me...
    And that's the story of my first and last Omega.
    Sorry to read this. What year is the watch as it may have Omega's 5 year warranty if 2018 onwards?

    Also if not, Omega servicing isn't bad at all, if you wanted shot of it Omega would charge £590 to service that and you'll get all the paperwork plus warranty etc. I'm sure you'd then be able to recoup that £590 plus more on resale vs selling a broken watch. This is assuming it's a relatively recent watch.

    If it's a 1st gen Planet Ocean then an independent could do it just fine.

    Big shame as they are lovely watches but I appreciate the experience so far has probably ruined it for you.

  17. #67
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    My grail watch didn't live up to the dream before I even got it ... I wanted a Sub, was on the waiting list for 3 years or so then gave up ... couldn't be bothered with the various AD games ...

    I have a Mark XX and an Explorer which both make great everyday watches so I don't need anything more ...

  18. #68
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Sorry to read this. What year is the watch as it may have Omega's 5 year warranty if 2018 onwards?

    Also if not, Omega servicing isn't bad at all, if you wanted shot of it Omega would charge £590 to service that and you'll get all the paperwork plus warranty etc. I'm sure you'd then be able to recoup that £590 plus more on resale vs selling a broken watch. This is assuming it's a relatively recent watch.

    If it's a 1st gen Planet Ocean then an independent could do it just fine.

    Big shame as they are lovely watches but I appreciate the experience so far has probably ruined it for you.
    Probably this one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynar View Post
    [SIZE=3][FONT=arial]Just not wearing this any more so offering it up for sale.
    Itís the 43.5mm co-axial chronometer.
    I bought it in Feb 2020 from WatchesWorld as ref 215.32.44.21.01.001 which is the rubber strap version.
    I could never get a comfortable fit with the strap so bought the bracelet making it a ref
    [COLOR=#000000]215.30.44.21.01.002 now.
    Itís been worn so not mint but in very good condition with no major dents, scratches or dings. Fully boxed with all the original cards etc.
    Iíll get some current pics up over the weekend, but hereís one from a while ago.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Planet Ocean - fancied one for years, but could never quite reconcile the cost with the content. When my mum passed in 2022, and to the surprise of all concerned, she left a little money in her will. Rather than fritter it away on esssentials, I decided to buy a P.O., and it being 2022 I overpaid for it despite it coming from SC. That's fine, it wasn't bought as an investment.
    First impressions were "Wow! Shiny!", it's a finely executed and blingy beast with a great-looking movement - even my wife (who is usually wholly indifferent), was impressed.
    Second impressions were "This is RIDICULOUSLY tall for a 3-hander!", and "Perhaps a bit too shiny..." - meaning legibility can be patchy. The long-winded date-setting was annoying too...
    Again, you can get accustomed to anything, but within a couple of days I began to suspect timekeeping was poor. However, since it was a high-days-and-holidays-only purchase, and I had a lot of other **** to deal with at the time, it was months before I was sure that not only was timekeeping actually terrible, but that it was also incapable of holding any significant power reserve... Yep, I'd bought a broken watch.
    I still have it, it still doesn't work, I never wear it, I can't sell it, and the high costs and extreme unreliability of Omega's servicing means it just sits there depressing the hell out of me...
    And that's the story of my first and last Omega.
    I get all my Omegas serviced at Omega Service Centre and havenít had a bad experience in 25 years.

    Yes, they are not cheap but do a great job and your watch comes back looking like new.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    In recent times I have an urge to own a Milgauss. Like a lot of folks on here a classic 1019 would tick all the boxes. I did consider the 6 digit GV but couldnít decide between the Z Blue or the Black dial. I went to a local secondhand dealership to have a look at the Z Blue in the flesh and even in the jewellers shop with a million spotlights it just looked dull and ordinary.
    I find the Z blue to look anything but dull in any light. It's a very pretty dial.

  21. #71
    Doxa for me - read all the Clive Cussler books, :D, and the watch looked terrific in pictures, but in the flesh it's not all that well finished and the dial is tiny what with the big bezel which already sits well inside the width of the case.

    A grail that was worth it was the Chopard LUC Chrono One that I saw in Selfridges' Wonder Room and then bought 10 years later (at 1/3 the price). I still say it's one of the nicest watches ever (from the dial side, anyway, though the back isn't tto bad at all).

  22. #72
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    I'm nowhere near the Rolex or Patek league, but I lusted after this Zodiac Super Seawolf for quite a while before buying. I knew straightaway that it wasn't quite right, but couldn't put my finger on what it was. I resisted the impression for nearly two years, forcing myself to wear it on rotation because I liked lots about it. Finally off-loaded when I realised I couldn't shake the impression. I've since realised that I like short lugs, and that can be a dealbreaker. No Nomos for me either then...
    [IMG][/IMG]
    Last edited by Calumets; 14th May 2024 at 22:47.

  23. #73
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Thanks for the positive feedback on the Omega PO chaps - this is just me being weird, tho' I've heard too many horror stories concerning Omega's own service centre to use them willingly. However, as it's a cal.8900 I may have to. Unfortunately it's out of warranty.

  24. #74
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyO View Post
    I get all my Omegas serviced at Omega Service Centre and havenít had a bad experience in 25 years.

    Yes, they are not cheap but do a great job and your watch comes back looking like new.
    Had my Planet Ocean 2201.50.00 serviced by them. Watch came back like new and has run perfectly ever since. Guess we're just lucky.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  25. #75
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Thanks for the positive feedback on the Omega PO chaps - this is just me being weird, tho' I've heard too many horror stories concerning Omega's own service centre to use them willingly. However, as it's a cal.8900 I may have to. Unfortunately it's out of warranty.
    It'll be worth it in my experience and maybe you'll learn to love the watch as I can imagine it being kaput has taken the love away from it.

    If not it would be much easier to move on with a recent service.

  26. #76
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    Rose gold AP half brick.
    Top heavy.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Thanks for the positive feedback on the Omega PO chaps - this is just me being weird, tho' I've heard too many horror stories concerning Omega's own service centre to use them willingly. However, as it's a cal.8900 I may have to. Unfortunately it's out of warranty.
    Duncan at Genesis does Coaxials.

  28. #78
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gomers View Post
    Duncan at Genesis does Coaxials.
    Thanks, that's worth knowing.

  29. #79
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    Sodders,
    I had a very pleasant although wallet rupturing experience with STS who are Omega certified when I got the big date and power reserve on my Ulysse Nardin fixed by them.
    Its a crying shame that a lovely blonrinj thing like that is languishing in a draw. Hope you find someone you trust to fix it at a reasonable price.

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robsmck View Post
    I had been through a couple of Rolex watches, DJ and YM, before i got my first diver, a DSSD in 2009 iirc. I still wanted a submariner, and picked up a LV the following year. After the DSSD it was a grave disappointment, the bracelet felt cheap and tinny, and the watch felt small on the wrist.
    Had I been able to tell the future I would have stuck it in the safe for ten years, but wisely I sold it.......

    Sent from my Nokia 1.4 using Tapatalk
    I just took my rattly & nasty coke-can bracelet (IMHO) off my 14060M & popped it on a bond nato, instantly feels a higher quality watch. Always hated the bracelet, know itís a classic etc, but a £10 bit of nylon doesnít rattle!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  31. #81
    Maybe grails maybe they werenít. Last year after almost 2yrs of researching, various trips to AD, working out pros & cons. I bought a Speedy 3861 Sapphire Sandwich, one home, the new bracelet wasnít a good fit (pre on the fly adjustment), it wore big for a 42mm, & also felt a bit of let down (for the RRP). Traded back to the AD & purchased the other watch I wanted - Monaco McQueen Calibre11 (this was more heart then head). Wore once or twice a week, but found chunky and uncomfortable throughout the day (& always enjoyed putting the BB58 back on). Sold after 8 months.

    Part of me regrets moving the Speedy on so soon & if I could pick a new one up at a good price Iíll give it a go again.

    The Monaco much like Panerai I feel looks great online, in shop windows, in pictures & on other people, but I doubt I could own either again.


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  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robsmck View Post
    I had been through a couple of Rolex watches, DJ and YM, before i got my first diver, a DSSD in 2009 iirc. I still wanted a submariner, and picked up a LV the following year. After the DSSD it was a grave disappointment, the bracelet felt cheap and tinny, and the watch felt small on the wrist.
    Had I been able to tell the future I would have stuck it in the safe for ten years, but wisely I sold it.......

    Sent from my Nokia 1.4 using Tapatalk
    I had a similar falling out with my LV. Sold it for a mighty £3.5K. Oh for a crystal ballÖ

  33. #83
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    Sodders,
    I had a very pleasant although wallet rupturing experience with STS who are Omega certified when I got the big date and power reserve on my Ulysse Nardin fixed by them.
    Its a crying shame that a lovely blonrinj thing like that is languishing in a draw. Hope you find someone you trust to fix it at a reasonable price.

    Thanks. I've dropped Genesis a line since they seem to have a lot of good reports on their work - if they're too busy I'll try STS

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBeardy View Post
    Maybe grails maybe they werenít. Last year after almost 2yrs of researching, various trips to AD, working out pros & cons. I bought a Speedy 3861 Sapphire Sandwich, one home, the new bracelet wasnít a good fit (pre on the fly adjustment), it wore big for a 42mm, & also felt a bit of let down (for the RRP). Traded back to the AD & purchased the other watch I wanted - Monaco McQueen Calibre11 (this was more heart then head). Wore once or twice a week, but found chunky and uncomfortable throughout the day (& always enjoyed putting the BB58 back on). Sold after 8 months.

    Part of me regrets moving the Speedy on so soon & if I could pick a new one up at a good price Iíll give it a go again.

    The Monaco much like Panerai I feel looks great online, in shop windows, in pictures & on other people, but I doubt I could own either again.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    I donít share this on the fly craze, imho you can get along well without it. But in case itís necessity, just get Omega leather and Bobís your uncle.
    Mine on Omega rally strap

  35. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexL View Post
    I donít share this on the fly craze, imho you can get along well without it. But in case itís necessity, just get Omega leather and Bobís your uncle.
    Mine on Omega rally strap
    Thanks, but on my BB58 dealing with young kids and hot weather (even my 40min walk to work) I have to adjust on the micro adjustments. (Iím still debating the T fit bracelet to retro fit)

    The bracelet adjusted to my wrist size annoyingly barely fitted over my wrist, if the on the fly adjustment was on it. Iíd probably kept with it.

    Speedy looks great on the leather by the way.


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  36. #86
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Grail watches that didn't live up to the dream

    My Speedy 1861




    Always planned this as my second big purchase after my Sub Date, but was never quite convinced in the flesh. It was my 3rd significant purchase 8 years ago, mainly driven by being one of Ryanís unmissable £2500 bargains. Iíve never bonded with it, and itís my least worn. I have bigger watches such as Panerai, but it feels too big. On the bracelet it never wore right, partly a function of the male end links. A bit better on a Rallye, but not transformative, now on a Forstner 1450. I sometimes force myself to wear it, but always go back to anything else.

    Itís so photogenic, until itís on my wrist :(

    I should sell it, but that seems like WIS failure.

    D


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  37. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post
    My Speedy 1861




    Always planned this as my second big purchase after my Sub Date, but was never quite convinced in the flesh. It was my 3rd significant purchase 8 years ago, mainly driven by being one of Ryanís unmissable £2500 bargains. Iíve never bonded with it, and itís my least worn. I have bigger watches such as Panerai, but it feels too big. On the bracelet it never wore right, partly a function of the male end links. A bit better on a Rallye, but not transformative, now on a Forstner 1450. I sometimes force myself to wear it, but always go back to anything else.

    Itís so photogenic, until itís on my wrist :(

    I should sell it, but that seems like WIS failure.

    D


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The irony that it looks like the epitome of a good watch in that photo


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  38. #88
    Every 5digit Rolex ever (and have tried them all nearly - each was truly desired until I got it)
    They are sweet enough, but pretty - agricultural - (to be kind to them).


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  39. #89
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notenoughwrists View Post
    The irony that it looks like the epitome of a good watch in that photo


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    It is, a desirable classic, but it just doesnít appeal when itís on my wrist. Inexplicable I know

    D


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  40. #90
    PP 5712/01 Nautilus. Lusted after one for years, but it was so thin compared to everything else I have it lacked a bit of heft and it was so finely finished, even the slightest hairline on the case was noticeable. Sold after about 11 months at a pretty decent profit, but had a had a crystal ball and kept it another year Iíd had made a lot of money.

    JLC Navy Seals. Looked great, but the crown was so big, it dug into the back of my hand. Sold after about 6 months at a bit of a loss even though I got it at a good discount.
    Andy

    Wanted - Damasko DC57

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