Reply With QuoteThey are becoming more and more difficult to get. On ebay there were plenty of them. Now you cannot find any at all.
There are some seagull/chinese 2892 around....
Or not!
I was thinking of popping an auto movement in a fat cased CWC G10 to replace the ESA quartz that was in there, 2824/36 is a straight swap but I see a 2824 is £80 +VAT at Cousins!
When did they get so bloody expensive, seems like last time I looked you could get a 2801 for £20 and a 2892 was about £90
Anyone have a cheaper source for a 2824?
And does anybody know the correct size crystal for a CWC G10? 31.6 or 31.7mm?
They are becoming more and more difficult to get. On ebay there were plenty of them. Now you cannot find any at all.
There are some seagull/chinese 2892 around....
This is precisely why I'm looking at putting a Miyota automatic in the new PRS-10, using ETA2824 would make it more than £150 and who would buy?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Limited Edition, or an optional upgrade?
Neither: compulsory purchase for all forum members. :twisted:Originally Posted by Glamdring
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Now that's what I call aggressive moderation. ;)Neither: compulsory purchase for all forum members. :twisted:
Eddie
In any case, unless they have the same dimensions, they would need different cases.
Best wishes,
Bob
An ETA 2836-2 will drop into the 1980 fat cases with no modifications, even the hands can be used as-is. The stem on the 2824 will be to low.
If you look around on ebay you can pick-up a used watch with an ETA 2836-2 in it for about $50 - $60. But, you may have to service it. It saves money, only if you can do your own work.
Surely just different movement holders, not different cases?Now that's what I call aggressive moderation. ;)Neither: compulsory purchase for all forum members. :twisted:
Eddie
In any case, unless they have the same dimensions, they would need different cases.
Best wishes,
Bob
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Are the stems on the Miyota and ETA the same distance from the top of the plate on the dial side of the movement? Are the movements the same thickness?
Best wishes,
Bob
You ask me questions which I leave to the manufacturers to solve Bob, for they surely have more expertise. Having bought a dog, I don't choose to bark myself.Are the stems on the Miyota and ETA the same distance from the top of the plate on the dial side of the movement? Are the movements the same thickness?
Best wishes,
Bob
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Fair enough. But those sorts of things might make it difficult to use the case case for different movements.You ask me questions which I leave to the manufacturers to solve Bob, for they surely have more expertise. Having bought a dog, I don't choose to bark myself.Are the stems on the Miyota and ETA the same distance from the top of the plate on the dial side of the movement? Are the movements the same thickness?
Best wishes,
Bob
Eddie
Woof, woof!
Best wishes,
Bob
Stem height for Miyotas is 2.5mm, for the ETA 2824-2 (and 2801 ans 2804 as well) it is 1.8mm, the ETA 2836-2 is 2.20mm.You ask me questions which I leave to the manufacturers to solve Bob, for they surely have more expertise. Having bought a dog, I don't choose to bark myself.Are the stems on the Miyota and ETA the same distance from the top of the plate on the dial side of the movement? Are the movements the same thickness?
Best wishes,
Bob
Eddie
The overall movement thickness is fairly close.
No such thing as a cheap ETA movement, the cost me for the standard version about $110.00 each with no shipping from ETA.
The Elaboree is more...
The TOP...yes, there are only three versions of the 2824-2 it out there, almost double the standard...
Eddie is right with Miyota, cheaper and easier to fix...
What about Selita movements? I never have seen them on ebay (and that may indicate they are also scarce), but are they as scarce/expensive as the 2824s?
Personally, I honestly do not know much about Selita Movements (I have never seen one), I know some people who have used them, and hey are comparable to the 2824?and just as nice.
Soon, almost any ETA based or style movement will be hard to acquire. I received information from ETA that they have recently closed their Japanese Factory as well as their Hong Kong Factory.
Now the whole world will be competing for the full ETA Movements. The Ebuches will be there, but not sold to anyone who did not have a contract prior to 2008.
The price increase for ETA movements was a standard 7% across the board, for most movement, and for the certain popular ones there was an 8% increase, and for those who have contracts with ETA the new rules is anything above a 2893, if purchased directly from ETA will have to be cased in CH.
Thaks for the info, probably saved me an expensive mistake! I tried a 2801 in the case for fit but didnt install dial and hands.An ETA 2836-2 will drop into the 1980 fat cases with no modifications, even the hands can be used as-is. The stem on the 2824 will be to low.
If you look around on ebay you can pick-up a used watch with an ETA 2836-2 in it for about $50 - $60. But, you may have to service it. It saves money, only if you can do your own work.
I'll probably end up keeping it quartz, a loose 2836-2 is £65 a 955-122 is £15 or so :roll:
Eddie, if the blueprints of the new PRS-10 that you posted are up to date then I think you will at least have to fit a deeper case back for a Miyota version. If I'm reading the blueprints correctly the new case has a bit more than 4.6 mm clearance for the movement but the Miyota movement is 5mm plus, 5.3mm is one figure I have seen.
I guess a different caseback for the quartz and automatic versions is not such a big deal?
regards
siggy
What is it with SWATCH? As they now apparently have pretty much monopolized the entire body of "practical class" (and probably best) movements of the Swiss watch industry, they seemingly, probably, given their blatantness, intend to radically reduce supply with correspondingly rising prices, all the while dictating ever increasingly draconian trade access restrictions against non-SWATCH conglomerate companies like Timefactors. Given my limited view of the situation perhaps, the assumption on my part is that the SWATCH purpose by this "planned out" now "playing out" scenario is to try "breaking" the non-SWATCH Swiss watch industry. Eddie, is that paranoia or accurate? You'd know as the initial target with first hand knowledge and a business on the line, and we'll all feel it where it hurts when the repercussions get to us--and they will. Who runs SWATCH anyway, resurgent Nazis? Does the EU have anything equivelent to U.S. style Anti-Trust Law or Fair Business Practices Law? Does the general Swiss watch industry, such of it not controlled by SWATCH, have a Teddy Roosevelt like "Trust Buster" figure?? Rollon
Given that the patents for the ETA movements have expired (i think), why doesnt anyone build them for sale. Afterall there is a ready demand
An ETA 955.1xx won't fit in the fat case. The stem height on the 955 is 1.00mm the stem height required for the fat case is 2.20mm.
Of the currently available ETA movements, a 2836-2 or a 2846 are the only ones with a stem height of 2.20mm.
ETA has been supplying SWATCH competitors for years, which if you sit down and think about it, can only hurt the core watch brands of SWATCH (like Omega, Hamilton, et al.).
I am rather surprised it has taken them this long to cut back sales to non-SWATCH watch companies.
I thought that they've been trying for some time, but the competition commission (or whatever it is called) in Switzerland wouldn't allow it.ETA has been supplying SWATCH competitors for years, which if you sit down and think about it, can only hurt the core watch brands of SWATCH (like Omega, Hamilton, et al.).
I am rather surprised it has taken them this long to cut back sales to non-SWATCH watch companies.
Best wishes,
Bob
Is there such a thing as the "Competition Commission" in Switzerland? After all, it's legal to operate a cartel in all but two of the Cantons in Switzerland. Want to bet that those two Cantons aren't involved in watchmaking?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
They do have a something called the Competition Commission.
Best wishes,
Bob
PS And if you do a search on its site, you'll find quite a few documents relating to Swatch/ETA.
RLF
I'm not disputing that they have one Bob, I'm just saying that it isn't particularly effective. (Which is the same thing as not having one).
FACT. Delivery lead time on some movements is as long as 3 years.
FACT. ETA will not supply "premium" movements to any manufacturer outside Switzerland (ETA289X series, chronometer grade movements). This is why German manufacturers have to utilise buying agents inside Switzerland and have to pay middleman fees, making it more difficult for them to be competitive with Swiss manufacturers.
FACT. ETA will not supply me direct because I don't assemble the watches. They will only supply me if the movements are delivered to a nominated Swiss manufacturer.
Sounds perfectly open and above board to me, just like any free market should be.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Well, to add to the "high spirits" today, you may recall I bought a chinese seagull 2892-2. Well, China is really improving, but I an afraid they are not yet there. The movement is, how could I say it, overengineered: too many additional plates and screws to compensate for excessive tolerance (hey, maybe I am talking nonsense! No engineer here, guys!).
Up to now I have been able to buy in the bay good ETA movements for my franken watches. I had also a good source for movements. Now, it is almost impossible to get one, and I am starting to get some chinese movements. I have just bought some chinese 7750 (not yet here).
So...swatch/ETA closing the market and no alternatives....
I´d like to see more companys following the in-house path.....like Nomos....there´s life beyond swatch :P
One of the reasons, doubtless, that they refused to join the EU.FACT. ETA will not supply me direct because I don't assemble the watches. They will only supply me if the movements are delivered to a nominated Swiss manufacturer.
Sounds perfectly open and above board to me, just like any free market should be.
There are a number of companies who have started making their own movs over the last few years from Maurice Lacroix, to Frederic Constance, to Junghans, and I am sure you can find a few more. You might have pay a bit more but as the grade one ETA are climbing in cost, the margin will soon disappear.
john
THIN is the new BLACK
I was aware of ML´s movement (in a different price range though) but didn´t know about Junghans. Thanks for the heads up :)There are a number of companies who have started making their own movs over the last few years from Maurice Lacroix, to Frederic Constance, to Junghans, and I am sure you can find a few more. You might have pay a bit more but as the grade one ETA are climbing in cost, the margin will soon disappear.
john
Oh, thread hijacking in progress.....sorry Jason :D
Have a look at the Junghans Tempus and 1861 ranges.
http://www.erhard-junghans.de/
john
THIN is the new BLACK
Oh dont worry about that :roll:
Thanks again Lysanderxiii looks like I better put that 536-121 back together again! I rather like these fat cased G10's, couple of the Precista version on the bay atm as well.
Switzerland isn't part of the EU but even if it was, I doubt the position would be different - the EU's anti-trust laws are mainly used to persecute American companies...
Swatch tried to ramp down its production and cease sales to third parties a few years ago, but was told to keep going whilst alternatives were sought to break its monopoly. The likes of Sellita, Soprod and Technotime have all increased their exposure and movement sales, but probably not to the extent required. It will take a long time for other watch manufacturers to wean themselves off ETA.
I'm sure there is a requirement for additional capacity in the raw movement sector, but I get the impression -from the general history of watchmaking in Switzerland - that the barriers to entry are artificially, if not illegally, high.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Thanks for the link John.
Interesting movements.....but victims of the humongous fashion.....can´t see the point in developing a 28mm mov and a nice design and then ruin it (IMHO) with a 42mm case :? ......I´m afraid I´m getting old :P
I think that the Seagull ST2130 is the way to go now, got 3 of them running in different watches. all keep great time.
This is possibly a record for thread necrophilia. 8 whole years! Please ignore the similarities in name and location, he ain't me!
I was just contemplating the coincidence myself!
I've probably mentioned this before but there's an online forum-like system that has been running since at least 1990 (yes, pre-web, although it does now have a web interface). This means that threads more than 20 years old have occasionally been resurrected on the system. :-)
Why is Vargas posting such huge messages?
Eddie, I have no idea about these sorts of things, but would it be possible to do a HAQ version of the PRS10 using one of ETAs thermocompensated precidrive movements?
I'd buy that.
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