Reply With QuoteDangerous place with a deserved reputation.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e_iOSApp_Other
A cautionary tale, I suppose.
Dangerous place with a deserved reputation.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
And its a no from me...too many things can go wrong with these rebreathers at that depth
This death had nothing to do with rebreathers - and the article has a number of inaccuracies in it.Originally Posted by Dm1672
And its a no from me...too many things can go wrong with these rebreathers at that depth
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
It's not a great article, and it certainly doesn't even begin to describe the role of the safety diver in these situations. The unsung, often unknown, heroes behind so many AIDA records.
Not a particularly accurate piece (as already mentioned).
80 metres on air is just plain stupid.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Freedivers will disagree with you there. ;-)
(She currently holds the WR at 104m for Constant Weight).
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Slightly different physiology.........
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
As someone who has been down to 8m once, can I ask what makes this place so dangerous? I understand that to dive very deep you must be an expert and well prepared, but what makes 'deep' here unusually dangerous?
I found the article interesting. Obviously I can't judge the accuracy. Very sad that a safety diver should die saving someone else (if I read that bit right).
I think it's the lure of a specific challenge, to go through the arch, to say you've done it, if you're not skilled enough, you pay the price.
It's not just the depth, it's what you are doing at that depth, get a tiny bit disoriented and there's nowhere to go. I've dived in it, but at purely recreational depth, it's a stunning site.
When I was there in the early 00s, there was a 'tunnel' or a kind of chute that you could start your decent from, nicknamed 'the bells' from the sound of tanks clanking on the top of the tube, I understand it's open roof now from collapse and diver erosion now.
Last edited by JasonM; 27th August 2017 at 15:00.
In a word: overconfidence. Though that wasn't the case in the incident reported here. People with basic or even advanced diving qualifications see others diving there who have far greater skill, experience, knowledge and are using rebreathers, mixed gases etc. and think that they will give it a go. I have seen this in the Red Sea and, tragically, it cost the life of a dive guide. He had seen us investigating some of the deeper wrecks using CCR/twin sets and mixed gases and he reportedly descended to 70m+ on a single cylinder of air. To my knowledge his body was never recovered.
There is a big difference in the planning and execution of dives to 30m on a beautiful reef and diving to 100m. As an example, on a trip to the Lusitania in 2001 (around 93m to the seabed), the debrief of that day's dive and pre-brief on the following days' dive would take around 40 mins and just prior to diving there was another brief to reinforce some points and amend depending on the weather, current, dive teams etc. Thankfully we had zero incidents.
I would also point out that, for example, in the early days of the Inspiration rebreather (the first CCR easily available and affordable to most technical divers) there was some shocking behaviour that resulted in deaths - it's a mindset. As someone who has just completed a 31 year career in flying it's quite similar though flying is far more regulated and easier to effectively regulate.
Last edited by Skier; 27th August 2017 at 16:02.
Two very helpful answers, thanks. I can see why the comment about a little knowledge being dangerous was made.
Know your limits, the sea is not forgiving.
mike
Can you elaborate on the inaccuracies ? thats the press for you ...they never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Having had a look online it appears it was a shallow water blackout..My mistake i had thought he had been on a gas mix of some sort...R.I.P
We might be at cross-purposes here, what's the relevance of 80m?
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
This. Not sure I'd dive there, and if I did it wouldn't be to see the arch.
I think that's a little unfair to the site to be honest, normal recreational Scuba with a guide is no more dangerous here than anywhere else, the access road is probably more dangerous!
Cheers..
Jase
Sure.
Before I do though I will say it was a better than average media report on the subject, but as always when you've got a fair bit of knowledge on a topic then the inaccuracies in a piece (both factual and opinion) do stand out.
"...is arguably the most perilous diving spot in the world' He did say arguably, but I think most reasonably well-travelled divers would disagree with that. Putting aside that diving can be a dangerous sport on just about every dive, there are many other places that could be regarded as more dangerous than the Blue Hole by virtue of the challenges they pose. Ice diving and cave diving to name but two.
"While attempting to cross “the arch” of the Red Sea’s notorious Blue Hole..." She (the diver who Steve went to assist) wasn't attempting to do any such thing. It was a Constant Weight no Fins (CNF) dive, whereby you descend/ascend alongside a line. So it's a straightforward free dive and you're attached to the line by a lanyard throughout.
"Divers in Dahab suggest as many as 200 in recent years." I doubt there has been anywhere near that figure and Tarek Omar (the man whom the article sites as One man who doesn’t venture to guess) has told me 'about 50, maybe' and the memorial plaques on the cliff nearby would suggest he's right.
"Below 56 metres, the sea wall stops, revealing a cavernous, 26-metre-long tunnel from the Blue Hole to the open ocean. Those who descend 100 metres are faced with a 50-metre-high opening to the Red Sea. The bottom of the Blue Hole is 120m and you can still see the top of the arch.
Steve (never Stephen to all who knew him) was one heck of a guy and a very professional free diver, so much so that he was the Chief of Safety at many free diving competitions. I've dived the Blue Hole a number of times and often Steve would be there too, either training other free divers or responsible for the safety cover for his free diving clients. A sad loss to all of us who knew him.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Thanks Ralphy. I'm sorry to hear that diver who died was known to you.
Yeah cant beat the press for getting a story not quite factual....I tried cave diving years ago wasn't for me...loved wreck diving though... been a long time since a dived for pleasure.
Thanks for clearing that up
Narcosis 'v' breath hold mate.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Coincidentally, I just finished reading this book about deep diving in the Red Sea while doing a freediving course...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01...ZK8E2FEKKY6BTQ
I'd highly recommend it - funny & nerve-wracking by turn.
Turned out that freediving wasn't my cup of tea but I dived the Blue Hole years ago as a shallow 'recreational' dive without any problems. This article feels like a bit of a bodge job...
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Interesting point tho'. It *does* appear that N2 narcosis *can* occur on a deep dive. Herbert Nitsch was *probably* the first to experience it (on his 800ft dive), but there were a couple of other shallower divers (still 100m plus) where divers have obviously been in distress (Steve's rescue of Alexey in Kalamata springs to mind). Given the depth in this instance, narcosis *appears* unlikely to have been the course of Alessia's incident, but I doubt we'll ever really know. It's dreadfully sad, but reminds us all that these things sometimes just *happen*. We still don't know what happened to Natalia.
DISCAIMER: I'm not an expert. Just an interested party and failed freediver (AIDA**).
Last edited by Broussard; 29th August 2017 at 10:31. Reason: DISCALIMER ADDED
I know the author, John Dean, quite well. We used to regularly dive from the same boats where he was based, Sharm el Sheik. He had a lucky escape from the bombing there in 2005, I'd flown out earlier that evening but he was in a bar when one of the bombs exploded outside.
If you enjoyed A Walk On The Deep Side then check out his 'Lost Wife, Saw Barracuda' book - very funny as well as informative.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
AIDA 2 isn't a failure in my book.
As an aside, Steve Keenan was the Instructor for a mutual friend of ours, Anna P.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I remember.
Anna is one of the most *natural* divers I've ever seen. Effortless. I struggle to even relax enough to breathe properly. Actually, my apnea / freediving experiment was linked directly to relaxation. I'm hoping somebody will open a club in Stratford, but no luck so far.
For the time being, I'll stick to EAN. And go snap some critters.
ETA: Thank you for your kind words.
Last edited by Broussard; 29th August 2017 at 10:50. Reason: Thank you added.
Drifting off thread but...
I actually am a failed freediver inasmuch as I only managed to get to 12m before bailing on my AIDA 2* last week.
I too was hoping for the supposedly zen-like calm that freediving brings - but I found that going headfirst down a rope into empty blue the polar opposite of relaxing. Equalization problems didn't help but even knowing that I could do the 2' breath hold an 40m swim didn't change the fact that I really, really hated the feeling.
Having said that, I believe there's a club in Ware, Hertfordshire so I might have another go, if only because I HATE failing...
Thanks - will have a look. I also read this one, which is absolutely fascinating and very wide-ranging - although all the tales of stuff going wrong in Kalamata bay probably didn't help me while I was there!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00IJKJT...ng=UTF8&btkr=1
Drifting even further OT, I also have head down equalisation problems after about 10m and switched to FIM. Actually ended up having some sort of trauma after the "deeper" dives too, which suggests that my estuations just aren't up to it. Diving on air keeps everything open, but I *really* struggle below 10m when freediving. My aim was only ever to take my 3 1/2 min static and extend it to 10m anyway, so I could spend more time u/w with a camera. Hey ho.
[QUOTE=jamesianbriggs;4473773I too was hoping for the supposedly zen-like calm that freediving brings - but I found that going headfirst down a rope into empty blue the polar opposite of relaxing. Equalization problems didn't help but even knowing that I could do the 2' breath hold an 40m swim didn't change the fact that I really, really hated the feeling.[/QUOTE]It would be remarkably early to acheive zen-like calm at such an early stage and whilst in training. ;-)
As has been mentioned, head-down could contribute to equalisation difficulties. Also, whether you breathe-up with a snorkel facing downwards or face-up on the surface can have an effect too: both for equalising and for calming the brain. I have a theory that experienced scuba divers like yourself are often at a disadvantage when it comes to the initial free diver training, but once they've overcome it they then often progress at a quicker pace. Whether you join a club or not, it'd be good to practice the relaxation techniques you were taught as well as combining them with breath-holding, it will help you to progress. There also a number of different techniques to equalisation and fwiw the one I use for scuba doesn't work for free diving and vice versa, so again trying to find one that suits you the most will be of help.
I hope you do pursue it, the Zen effect is really quite remarkable and worth effort.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Thanks for this. TBH the experience was pretty gruelling so I need some encouragement to get back on it!
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