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Thread: Jiu Jitsu thinking of giving it a go

  1. #51
    Grand Master Passenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    IIRC Josh is black belt so we have resident expert..
    Ninja I think, given his ability to vanish.
    Last edited by Passenger; 5th November 2017 at 08:48.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by geran View Post
    I'm still training three times a week, only misssed two classes due to a holiday and still loving it, I picked up a knee injury about a month ago during one of the stand up classes, hasn't stopped me though just strap it up, just ordered some Devils Claw supposed to be good for aches and pains.

    I have a one hour session tomorrow morning, bit of a break followed by a two hour seminar on leg locks with half an hour of grappling at the end, then back at it on Monday and Thursday.

    There have been quite a few folk that have given it a go since I joined as the first session is free, but I can't think of any that have returned, it's obviously not for everyone but if it clicks it becomes addictive,
    The last time I checked I had lost just under a Stone and a half, not purely from training but eating a bit less and doing a few sessions a week on the turbo trainer.
    If anyone has have ever been on the fence about try Jui Jitsu or any other martial art give it a go, you might just discover a real passion for it.
    If 10 people walk through the door, 5 will still be coming in 3 months time. In a years time only 2 of the original 10 might remain. Give it another 3 years and there will only be 1. It takes a certain type of sadist.

    This has been my experience training BJJ for so many years. So much so that I don't bother getting to know the names of new guys until they've been around for 6 months. I'll still be nice to them (by that I mean I won't rip them apart when rolling sort of like that scene where the killer whales are flipping the seal about).

  3. #53
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    I trained for years with the late Robert Clark and Alan Campbell (National Coach) .....and made some good friends at the Fazakerley dojo in Liverpool.

    I am a fit person but I can honestly say that at the time I trained there, I was by far the fittest I have ever been and probably ever will be.

    The courses on offer by specialist speakers and wealth of experience out there is brilliant - it is very addictive, however I do agree with the above post, the fall out rate is very high but I think if you have the interest and determination it is very rewarding - and a great confidence builder....

    GO for it I say......

    Mike

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Brazilian JJ is a style developed by the Gracie family that focuses on fighting on the ground. It is extremely good if you're planning a new career as a fighter but a bit tedious if you're not. Exhausting too
    If you're going to start from scratch at 50 I would recommend Aikido instead (itself derived from JJ).
    Aikido is nonsense.

    BJJ, Krav Maga, and/or boxing if you want to learn how to fight, and get broken fingers in the case of the first two.

    Most of them will be OK for getting fit.

    I did 5 years of karate and it was nonsense.

  5. #55
    Best mix is BJJ/Wrestling, Boxing, and Muay Thai for all round defence and fitness.

  6. #56
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    Self defence isn't really something that's needed that often if ever at all for "normal" folk so I wouldn't get too worked up about the effectiveness of things. Getting off the couch is good for you, just don't start believing you're invincible because some beer belied middle aged man wearing pyjamas spent 5 minutes down the local community centre showing you how to kick a man square in the stones while shouting KEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowflow View Post
    Self defence isn't really something that's needed that often if ever at all for "normal" folk so I wouldn't get too worked up about the effectiveness of things. Getting off the couch is good for you, just don't start believing you're invincible because some beer belied middle aged man wearing pyjamas spent 5 minutes down the local community centre showing you how to kick a man square in the stones while shouting KEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!
    True enough
    This bloke cracks me up. https://youtu.be/6gp_zImqSJM
    Last edited by geran; 8th November 2017 at 19:42.

  8. #58
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    I have done wado ryu karate for many years. What ever martial art you do and no matter when you start your own style will adapt as you get older. My kicks in karate do not look anywhere near like they did when I was in my twenties. But its not really about how you look or how tough you are, surely? Its about keeping active and having a good all over body workout.

    My two kids now 12 and 10 didn't want to do Karate and opted to do Judo instead. I took them along to the local club and was amazed at how good it was for kids. Its obviously a very well established sport and they make it more fun for kids with 10-15 mins learning and then a game, although the game would actually be teaching them more judo, the kids dont realise.

    After a year of watching my kids do it every week, I wanted to try it, so at the age of 43, I joined up.
    I have been doing it for a year now and have progressed from white belt to orange. I was nearly as happy about getting my orange belt as I was getting my first dan grade in karate.

    Judo gives you a really good workout, I mean it is exhausting but in a good way. It has the ground game the same as BJJ, but its not so focused on it.
    My local BJJ club charges a lot of money on a subscription basis, where as the judo club charges £3 a session.

    Andy

  9. #59
    Master geran's Avatar
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    Update

    A year in, I can't believe where the time has gone, I'm still training three times a week, a couple of injuries on the way as to be expected, managed to break my little toe last week, well I say break it went with a heck of a crack when I was rolling, didn't hurt at all at the time, it was smarting a couple of hours later, have it strapped to the other toe not stopped me training though.

    I turned 50 in Feb, hope to continue training as long as possible,
    Last edited by geran; 31st July 2018 at 20:07.

  10. #60
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    I've been mulling over some self defence type training after almost being attacked by an irate patient who'd take a combination of spice and heroin the other week and had though about looking into Krav Maga as it seems like the most practical. Any advice from the hive mind as to that or an alternate discipline would be better?

  11. #61
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    If you dealing with patients I’m not sure Krav is the most suitable martial art. I’d recommend something like Ju Jitsu, Judo or similar where you are taught locks, holds and restraints. Krav, Muay Thai etc are primarily based on striking... certaintly effective, but it may not go down too well with your employer!

  12. #62
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    Good advice above. If you want to have the killer instincts, reflexes and techniques to smash a patient's face in then muay Thai or traditional boxing is ideal. If you just want to put them down and restrain them or even restrain them standing then wrestling (think American collegiate rather than WWE) or brazilian jiu jitsu. Most bjj schools teach wrestling style take downs (singles and doubles etc) rather than traditional Japanese jiu jitsu or judo throws. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with tradition throws but the focus shifted for a reason.

    I'm a krav maga sceptic. I've trained several martial arts over the last 20 years and it's the latest urban legend "our moves are so deadly...etc." I figure if it was really that effective surely at least one krav maga guy would have been lured to turn down his killer finishers slightly fight for money. The only stuff I've seen has been the usual staged defence.

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  13. #63
    Grand Master Rod's Avatar
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    Go for it geran! Any martial art is good for your for physical and mental well-being.
    I did a lot of judo in my police career and helped self confidence enormously, not to mention helped in certain situations.

  14. #64
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    I too would recommend Krav Maga which was the system of sell defence that the former Strathclyde Police Force taught recruits. I’m not sure if Police Scotland use the same system but I implemented it for several years and found it to be the most easily applicable to real world situations.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Olly View Post
    I've been mulling over some self defence type training after almost being attacked by an irate patient who'd take a combination of spice and heroin the other week and had though about looking into Krav Maga as it seems like the most practical.
    Most practical. Yes, definitely. Source: used to do krav maga (and have done a few other martial arts). Most of the people I trained with, including the head instructor, were prison guards, plus a few police and military folk. All of whom found it to be extremely practical. Almost everyone already knew at least one other martial art, but it was a diverse lot including a 50-ish year old couple who had both decided to give it a go with no prior experience.

    It's pretty accessible but it does put a lot of emphasis on psychological conditioning and pushing yourself up to and beyond your physical limits. This is largely based on the practical concern of dealing with adrenaline and stressful situations. A standard krav maga class ends with "pressure testing" which frankly, is never fun until its over. It is pretty demanding. You're more likely to get badly injured doing something like aikido, but you'll come away from krav maga with a lot of bruises, physically exhausted, and probably wondering if you really want to keep doing it. But it's also a lot of fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    If you dealing with patients I’m not sure Krav is the most suitable martial art. I’d recommend something like Ju Jitsu, Judo or similar where you are taught locks, holds and restraints.
    Also this, although be aware that there are actually 3 variants of krav maga: civilian, police and military. The police variant puts more emphasis on restraint and control methods. If you go to a typical krav maga school you will generally be taught the civilian version, but if you mention particular job requirements the instructor may be able to advise if they have special classes, or could show you slight variants on the techniques. Often the same technique can be applied in 3 different ways depending on the outcome you're looking for. The military version is sometimes pointed out so you know what not to do, as it can sometimes be a fine line between a restraint and breaking someone's neck. On the whole, that's not something you want to be going around doing.

    What all of them have over the more traditional martial arts is up-front emphasis on things like situational awareness and keeping things simple: first try to diffuse the situation or leave, if that's not an option go in really really hard until you are absolutely certain the threat is gone. Again, there is a major difference in how these techniques are taught to police because they don't have the "run away" option, and they should always be trying to restrain rather than debilitate, depending on the threat involved. Your job may put you somewhere in the middle between these two.

    One important point to realise about restraint techniques though, which isn't always emphasised enough in traditional MA, is that they very often don't work. Whatever you're training in, you need to be applying it in a relatively real scenario where things go wrong and you need to change plans at the last second. The sport arts like BJJ have a strong advantage here, but the artificial constraints of the sporting rule-system are a weakness at the same time. The biggest issue in any real situation is that you really can't predict what someone is going to do.

    The intial emphasis in krav is on simple strikes and blocks that get progressively more complex as you develop more control, but it builds on innate reflexes rather than requiring a lot of skill before it is of any use. Training in anything at all is always better than nothing, but one key advantage of krav maga is that you will get something useful out of it with just a few weeks' training. That was one of the original objectives for the system. Whereas traditional martial arts were for professional martial artists, from a time when that was a thing, krav maga was designed to quickly enable ordinary jews able to defend themselves from nazis and other anti-semites in the escalating tensions leading up to WW2.

    So while there will be some convergence after a few years, traditional martial arts tend to be a bit of an all-or-nothing affair. With a little bit of krav, if you have to defend yourself, you might not be able to do so cleanly, but it could make the difference between walking away with a minor injury, or a much more serious one. With more training, you might also be able to avoid injuring the other person too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by mowflow View Post
    I'm a krav maga sceptic. I've trained several martial arts over the last 20 years and it's the latest urban legend "our moves are so deadly...etc."
    This is largely a myth, but there are a lot of "krav maga" McDojos around. That's not krav maga. Find a real krav maga school. Check if they are affiliated with one of the real Israeli organisations such as IKMF or KMG. If they are, the instructors will train regularly with senior instructors who in turn spend a lot of time with the Israeli military & police forces. You may not agree with Israel's foreign policies, but there's little doubt that their police & military forces do in fact rely on their training more than average, so all the FUD about it being all mouth and no trousers is just BS. Nobody I know has ever made a claim about krav maga moves being "so deadly" etc. That's much more likely coming from traditional Chinese martial arts (which to be fair, often are difficult to practise properly because they are designed to do lots of damage very efficiently; but people only boast about that being a good thing if they have no gongfu).

    Krav is a constantly evolving system, my school would get updates to the curriculum once a year. So for example we'd have been training in some technique or another, then the next year it would be slightly different, because they found the old way had a slightly higher risk of injury, or wasn't as effective, or something. This is all based directly on feedback from the Israeli forces. It's actually quite scientific in that regard. I think there is a recognition that the sports arts have the advantage of evolutionary pressure: techniques that don't work fall out of favour. However, they can also over-emphasise things that happen to be good for point-scoring, and de-emphasise defending things that would be illegal, or dealing with a second assailant for example (the latter is probably the biggest weakness of BJJ compared to krav).

    The difference between Judo, Jiu Jitsu and BJJ is largely artificial as they are all, essentially, the same martial art with a slight difference in focus. Judo and BJJ are both sports based on traditonal jiu jitsu. My krav school was actually in a Gracie Barra BJJ gym and we would cross train with those guys all the time (any good krav school will do a lot of cross training with other martial artists). And most of the takedown techniques are the same, except that in krav you always get back up again really fast, and you would tend to opt for that as a last resort rather than the first one. If you need to subdue someone you probably don't want to take them to the ground in the way a BJJ fighter would anyway.

    The other main difference between krav and most other systems is the emphasis on knife (and miscellaneous improvised weapon) defence early on. This is very much a take a small injury to avoid a bigger one sort of a thing. Traditional jiu jitsu, aikido etc., do contain knife techniques but the emphasis as usual tends to be on perfect execution, which of course never actually happens in reality. And it tends to be left out until you reach a basic level of proficiency in unarmed techniques. I've also done gun defence techniques but tbh I don't really remember them that well. They are extremely technical and, because this is the UK not Israel or USA, those techniques tend not to be practised as much as others with more obvious, practical uses. I think I've only practised handgun disarms maybe twice and a rifle disarm once. And even that was just because the instructor fancied mixing things up a bit.

    Anyway, the overriding concern with any of these is this: find a good teacher.

    Look at the students. Do they seem overly aggressive and not particularly well coordinated, or are they generally laid back, respectful, and focused on their skills? The students will reflect the teacher.

    Also, if you happen to know anyone in the local constabulary, try to find out who does their martial arts training. The chances are it'll be a local krav maga or jiu jitsu instructor, and you can be fairly sure it will be one of the better ones.

  16. #66
    Craftsman halfpasttwothirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyb28 View Post
    I have done wado ryu karate for many years.
    With Nishido Karate Kai in Harold Hill by any chance?

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Smith View Post
    I have attended classes for these type of martial arts a number of times over my years. They always seem to be the same format of "yes sensei (master, whatever), kiss your arse sensei, aren't you wonderful sensei" and trying to sell you things. I would just like a class where you can go and learn lots of tricksy finger-twisting moves and restraints. When I did a stint as a prison instructor I learnt a few moves eg 'pain compliance' but I would still like to do some more without all the accompanying bollocks.
    I think you're completely missing the whole ethos of martial arts. I studied traditional Shotokan, ok not the most glamorous for your ninja skills but one that taught me a high level of self discipline. I also learnt a few things about myself both good and bad along the way. That as well as being pretty fit and being able to pack a punch and kick accordingly as well as defend myself.

    What you describe sums up succinctly the worst of western culture where everything has to be done and learnt right now with a high level of impatience.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    Most practical. Yes, definitely. Source: used to do krav maga (and have done a few other martial arts). Most of the people I trained with, including the head instructor, were prison guards, plus a few police and military folk. All of whom found it to be extremely practical. Almost everyone already knew at least one other martial art, but it was a diverse lot including a 50-ish year old couple who had both decided to give it a go with no prior experience.

    It's pretty accessible but it does put a lot of emphasis on psychological conditioning and pushing yourself up to and beyond your physical limits. This is largely based on the practical concern of dealing with adrenaline and stressful situations. A standard krav maga class ends with "pressure testing" which frankly, is never fun until its over. It is pretty demanding. You're more likely to get badly injured doing something like aikido, but you'll come away from krav maga with a lot of bruises, physically exhausted, and probably wondering if you really want to keep doing it. But it's also a lot of fun.



    Also this, although be aware that there are actually 3 variants of krav maga: civilian, police and military. The police variant puts more emphasis on restraint and control methods. If you go to a typical krav maga school you will generally be taught the civilian version, but if you mention particular job requirements the instructor may be able to advise if they have special classes, or could show you slight variants on the techniques. Often the same technique can be applied in 3 different ways depending on the outcome you're looking for. The military version is sometimes pointed out so you know what not to do, as it can sometimes be a fine line between a restraint and breaking someone's neck. On the whole, that's not something you want to be going around doing.

    What all of them have over the more traditional martial arts is up-front emphasis on things like situational awareness and keeping things simple: first try to diffuse the situation or leave, if that's not an option go in really really hard until you are absolutely certain the threat is gone. Again, there is a major difference in how these techniques are taught to police because they don't have the "run away" option, and they should always be trying to restrain rather than debilitate, depending on the threat involved. Your job may put you somewhere in the middle between these two.

    One important point to realise about restraint techniques though, which isn't always emphasised enough in traditional MA, is that they very often don't work. Whatever you're training in, you need to be applying it in a relatively real scenario where things go wrong and you need to change plans at the last second. The sport arts like BJJ have a strong advantage here, but the artificial constraints of the sporting rule-system are a weakness at the same time. The biggest issue in any real situation is that you really can't predict what someone is going to do.

    The intial emphasis in krav is on simple strikes and blocks that get progressively more complex as you develop more control, but it builds on innate reflexes rather than requiring a lot of skill before it is of any use. Training in anything at all is always better than nothing, but one key advantage of krav maga is that you will get something useful out of it with just a few weeks' training. That was one of the original objectives for the system. Whereas traditional martial arts were for professional martial artists, from a time when that was a thing, krav maga was designed to quickly enable ordinary jews able to defend themselves from nazis and other anti-semites in the escalating tensions leading up to WW2.

    So while there will be some convergence after a few years, traditional martial arts tend to be a bit of an all-or-nothing affair. With a little bit of krav, if you have to defend yourself, you might not be able to do so cleanly, but it could make the difference between walking away with a minor injury, or a much more serious one. With more training, you might also be able to avoid injuring the other person too much.



    This is largely a myth, but there are a lot of "krav maga" McDojos around. That's not krav maga. Find a real krav maga school. Check if they are affiliated with one of the real Israeli organisations such as IKMF or KMG. If they are, the instructors will train regularly with senior instructors who in turn spend a lot of time with the Israeli military & police forces. You may not agree with Israel's foreign policies, but there's little doubt that their police & military forces do in fact rely on their training more than average, so all the FUD about it being all mouth and no trousers is just BS. Nobody I know has ever made a claim about krav maga moves being "so deadly" etc. That's much more likely coming from traditional Chinese martial arts (which to be fair, often are difficult to practise properly because they are designed to do lots of damage very efficiently; but people only boast about that being a good thing if they have no gongfu).

    Krav is a constantly evolving system, my school would get updates to the curriculum once a year. So for example we'd have been training in some technique or another, then the next year it would be slightly different, because they found the old way had a slightly higher risk of injury, or wasn't as effective, or something. This is all based directly on feedback from the Israeli forces. It's actually quite scientific in that regard. I think there is a recognition that the sports arts have the advantage of evolutionary pressure: techniques that don't work fall out of favour. However, they can also over-emphasise things that happen to be good for point-scoring, and de-emphasise defending things that would be illegal, or dealing with a second assailant for example (the latter is probably the biggest weakness of BJJ compared to krav).

    The difference between Judo, Jiu Jitsu and BJJ is largely artificial as they are all, essentially, the same martial art with a slight difference in focus. Judo and BJJ are both sports based on traditonal jiu jitsu. My krav school was actually in a Gracie Barra BJJ gym and we would cross train with those guys all the time (any good krav school will do a lot of cross training with other martial artists). And most of the takedown techniques are the same, except that in krav you always get back up again really fast, and you would tend to opt for that as a last resort rather than the first one. If you need to subdue someone you probably don't want to take them to the ground in the way a BJJ fighter would anyway.

    The other main difference between krav and most other systems is the emphasis on knife (and miscellaneous improvised weapon) defence early on. This is very much a take a small injury to avoid a bigger one sort of a thing. Traditional jiu jitsu, aikido etc., do contain knife techniques but the emphasis as usual tends to be on perfect execution, which of course never actually happens in reality. And it tends to be left out until you reach a basic level of proficiency in unarmed techniques. I've also done gun defence techniques but tbh I don't really remember them that well. They are extremely technical and, because this is the UK not Israel or USA, those techniques tend not to be practised as much as others with more obvious, practical uses. I think I've only practised handgun disarms maybe twice and a rifle disarm once. And even that was just because the instructor fancied mixing things up a bit.

    Anyway, the overriding concern with any of these is this: find a good teacher.

    Look at the students. Do they seem overly aggressive and not particularly well coordinated, or are they generally laid back, respectful, and focused on their skills? The students will reflect the teacher.

    Also, if you happen to know anyone in the local constabulary, try to find out who does their martial arts training. The chances are it'll be a local krav maga or jiu jitsu instructor, and you can be fairly sure it will be one of the better ones.
    Thanks for posting, lots of good advice. Think I’ll sign up for a beginner session in Krav and see where it goes.

  19. #69
    Master smalleyboy1's Avatar
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    OP - I know nothing about Krav Maga but feel robt’s post above was balanced and informed.

    I train twice a week in Wado Ryu karate and have done so for about 4 years. It has increased my fitness and flexibility. I’m not a natural scrapper but feel that in a confrontation that escalated to a fight, I would now have a better chance of defending myself and possibly inflicting enough damage to allow me to make my escape. It is repetitive so that with time the moves become like second nature. The traditional side of it is very structured like many martial arts and I enjoy this element of it.

    Part of the training also involves kumite which is sport karate and involves controlled fights/sparring. As it is a sport, there is a scoring system which does dictate the moves typically used. However it is a good way to learn what it feels like to face an opponent, getting used to adrenaline and taking a few knocks in a controlled environment. There is a big difference from traditional karate and kumite. As a 47 year old, I enjoy the intricacies and detail of traditional karate but the reality is when I put on my gloves, pop in my gum shield and spar, my age shows.

    IMHO martial arts are so named because they are an art and can take a lifetime to master. For me karate is something that I can continue to do as long as I’m fit to train. Our club is a family club with kids from 5 up to adults in their 70s. Finding a club you are comfortable with is to me more important than the martial art you are learning.

    I did Thai Jitsu, a mix of kick boxing and jujutsu for a year and that was an all blokes class with a heavy emphasis on a decent level of contact. I gave up after fracturing my ribs twice.

    Based on my limited experience, what I’ve read above and discussed with people who train in other martial arts, I would suggest you identify a martial art or ‘system’ that meets your needs, a club you are comfortable with, something that suits your age. If you want to be able to use the skills in the real world, then make sure you can spar or at least train with a decent level of contact so if the worst ever happens, you don’t freeze.

    I think Mike Tyson said something along the lines of ‘Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face’.

  20. #70
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    My son was being bullied in school. He started Jui Jitsu and hasn’t looked back. It hasn’t made him into a fighting machine, far from it. It’s taught him discipline and a good all round knowledge of how to handle himself and those twats around him


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    Most practical. Yes, definitely. Source: used to do krav maga (and have done a few other martial arts). Most of the people I trained with, including the head instructor, were prison guards, plus a few police and military folk. All of whom found it to be extremely practical. Almost everyone already knew at least one other martial art, but it was a diverse lot including a 50-ish year old couple who had both decided to give it a go with no prior experience.

    It's pretty accessible but it does put a lot of emphasis on psychological conditioning and pushing yourself up to and beyond your physical limits. This is largely based on the practical concern of dealing with adrenaline and stressful situations. A standard krav maga class ends with "pressure testing" which frankly, is never fun until its over. It is pretty demanding. You're more likely to get badly injured doing something like aikido, but you'll come away from krav maga with a lot of bruises, physically exhausted, and probably wondering if you really want to keep doing it. But it's also a lot of fun.



    Also this, although be aware that there are actually 3 variants of krav maga: civilian, police and military. The police variant puts more emphasis on restraint and control methods. If you go to a typical krav maga school you will generally be taught the civilian version, but if you mention particular job requirements the instructor may be able to advise if they have special classes, or could show you slight variants on the techniques. Often the same technique can be applied in 3 different ways depending on the outcome you're looking for. The military version is sometimes pointed out so you know what not to do, as it can sometimes be a fine line between a restraint and breaking someone's neck. On the whole, that's not something you want to be going around doing.

    What all of them have over the more traditional martial arts is up-front emphasis on things like situational awareness and keeping things simple: first try to diffuse the situation or leave, if that's not an option go in really really hard until you are absolutely certain the threat is gone. Again, there is a major difference in how these techniques are taught to police because they don't have the "run away" option, and they should always be trying to restrain rather than debilitate, depending on the threat involved. Your job may put you somewhere in the middle between these two.

    One important point to realise about restraint techniques though, which isn't always emphasised enough in traditional MA, is that they very often don't work. Whatever you're training in, you need to be applying it in a relatively real scenario where things go wrong and you need to change plans at the last second. The sport arts like BJJ have a strong advantage here, but the artificial constraints of the sporting rule-system are a weakness at the same time. The biggest issue in any real situation is that you really can't predict what someone is going to do.

    The intial emphasis in krav is on simple strikes and blocks that get progressively more complex as you develop more control, but it builds on innate reflexes rather than requiring a lot of skill before it is of any use. Training in anything at all is always better than nothing, but one key advantage of krav maga is that you will get something useful out of it with just a few weeks' training. That was one of the original objectives for the system. Whereas traditional martial arts were for professional martial artists, from a time when that was a thing, krav maga was designed to quickly enable ordinary jews able to defend themselves from nazis and other anti-semites in the escalating tensions leading up to WW2.

    So while there will be some convergence after a few years, traditional martial arts tend to be a bit of an all-or-nothing affair. With a little bit of krav, if you have to defend yourself, you might not be able to do so cleanly, but it could make the difference between walking away with a minor injury, or a much more serious one. With more training, you might also be able to avoid injuring the other person too much.



    This is largely a myth, but there are a lot of "krav maga" McDojos around. That's not krav maga. Find a real krav maga school. Check if they are affiliated with one of the real Israeli organisations such as IKMF or KMG. If they are, the instructors will train regularly with senior instructors who in turn spend a lot of time with the Israeli military & police forces. You may not agree with Israel's foreign policies, but there's little doubt that their police & military forces do in fact rely on their training more than average, so all the FUD about it being all mouth and no trousers is just BS. Nobody I know has ever made a claim about krav maga moves being "so deadly" etc. That's much more likely coming from traditional Chinese martial arts (which to be fair, often are difficult to practise properly because they are designed to do lots of damage very efficiently; but people only boast about that being a good thing if they have no gongfu).

    Krav is a constantly evolving system, my school would get updates to the curriculum once a year. So for example we'd have been training in some technique or another, then the next year it would be slightly different, because they found the old way had a slightly higher risk of injury, or wasn't as effective, or something. This is all based directly on feedback from the Israeli forces. It's actually quite scientific in that regard. I think there is a recognition that the sports arts have the advantage of evolutionary pressure: techniques that don't work fall out of favour. However, they can also over-emphasise things that happen to be good for point-scoring, and de-emphasise defending things that would be illegal, or dealing with a second assailant for example (the latter is probably the biggest weakness of BJJ compared to krav).

    The difference between Judo, Jiu Jitsu and BJJ is largely artificial as they are all, essentially, the same martial art with a slight difference in focus. Judo and BJJ are both sports based on traditonal jiu jitsu. My krav school was actually in a Gracie Barra BJJ gym and we would cross train with those guys all the time (any good krav school will do a lot of cross training with other martial artists). And most of the takedown techniques are the same, except that in krav you always get back up again really fast, and you would tend to opt for that as a last resort rather than the first one. If you need to subdue someone you probably don't want to take them to the ground in the way a BJJ fighter would anyway.

    The other main difference between krav and most other systems is the emphasis on knife (and miscellaneous improvised weapon) defence early on. This is very much a take a small injury to avoid a bigger one sort of a thing. Traditional jiu jitsu, aikido etc., do contain knife techniques but the emphasis as usual tends to be on perfect execution, which of course never actually happens in reality. And it tends to be left out until you reach a basic level of proficiency in unarmed techniques. I've also done gun defence techniques but tbh I don't really remember them that well. They are extremely technical and, because this is the UK not Israel or USA, those techniques tend not to be practised as much as others with more obvious, practical uses. I think I've only practised handgun disarms maybe twice and a rifle disarm once. And even that was just because the instructor fancied mixing things up a bit.

    Anyway, the overriding concern with any of these is this: find a good teacher.

    Look at the students. Do they seem overly aggressive and not particularly well coordinated, or are they generally laid back, respectful, and focused on their skills? The students will reflect the teacher.

    Also, if you happen to know anyone in the local constabulary, try to find out who does their martial arts training. The chances are it'll be a local krav maga or jiu jitsu instructor, and you can be fairly sure it will be one of the better ones.
    Many thanks for such an informative post Rob.

  22. #72
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by geran View Post
    A year in, I can't believe where the time has gone, I'm still training three times a week, a couple of injuries on the way as to be expected, managed to break my little toe last week, well I say break it went with a heck of a crack when I was rolling, didn't hurt at all at the time, it was smarting a couple of hours later, have it strapped to the other toe not stopped me training though.

    I turned 50 in Feb, hope to continue training as long as possible,
    Well done, as you've found out injuries are inevitable when practricing any contact martial art, the thing to keep in mind is don't get so injured that you can't carry on training.

  23. #73
    Just wear a stab-vest when leaving the house.

  24. #74
    Journeyman
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    I think it's definitely worth a try, it's a great sport. To learn more about it I suggest books on jiu jitsu where you will learn about the history of this martial art. That's how I learned that jiu jitsu originated from Mitsuyo Maeda, a master of Japanese judo, a disciple of Jigoro Kano. For him it was not just a martial art, but a way of keeping a person in good physical shape and a method of developing willpower.
    Last edited by bobocat; 28th November 2022 at 22:02.

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