Reply With QuoteClubsport, definitely. The R is great, don't get me wrong, however the Clubsport has the edge. Lighter and way more nimble with a more eager engine.
Both ride well on 18" Wheels. The R is the more solid, the Clubsport the more flighty.
Afternoon all,
As I'm finding it hard to replace the Octavia VRS Estate with anything much better without incurring a huge cost and/or losing valuable boot capacity I'm thinking of changing the smaller car (VW UP) and upgrading to a hot hatch no bigger than a Golf or similar. Budget is approx £30k max with a £10-£12k deposit. The cars purpose is a small 2nd car that does mostly town and B road driving but can cope with the odd 1-2 hours down the Motorway. Seating 4 in 'comfort' is a bonus.
- Has anyone on here bought a VW Golf Clubsport Edition 40 from last year and did they have a view on how it compared with the regular GTI (clearly better?) or the Golf R (clearly the lesser car?)
- The other alternative was the new updated Golf GTI with Performance Pack and wondered if I was better off with this Mk7.5 GTI PP or the run out Edition 40 model? I'd be interested in views on the ride quality and the need for Dynamic Chassis Control i.e. only needed with 19 inch wheels?
- Until this weekend I had been favouring a Mini JCW just because I've always fancied one (and the wife likes them) and now there is a Clubman version it offers the practicality of a small family hatch. But having test driven it was quite disappointed with the twitchy steering and generally feeling of not being in control?
- The PUG 308 GTI looks a strong contender but the thought of only having access to all heating/ a/c etc via that touch screen would quite annoying. But then 270BHP, LSD for less than £20k for a 66 Reg, low mileage car looks compelling.
- I've probably ruled out the Focus as I don't like the interior and rear sear space looks poor against the Golf. Same for the BMW M135i and was put off by TopGear's test about loss of control at high speeds. Seat Leon looks great on paper but sorry just a bit dull to look at and sit in.
I accept the VW Golf is not exactly a thrilling choice but it still feels like the best all rounder but all views welcome.
Cheers
Chris
Clubsport, definitely. The R is great, don't get me wrong, however the Clubsport has the edge. Lighter and way more nimble with a more eager engine.
Both ride well on 18" Wheels. The R is the more solid, the Clubsport the more flighty.
I don't find the jcw twitchy at all in mid mode. Did you have it on sports?
Tried it on both. In fact all three. Might be just me but just didn't feel right on the day. Still tempted to try another just to be sure.Originally Posted by verv
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BMW M135i
It has a 3.0 litre 6 cylinder Turbo engine, you want hot, these are scorching.
Thanks. I've been out in the new Golf R and whilst it was clearly very quick and competent it didn't feel that much fun. Horses for courses I guess.
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M140i :)
I got mine recently with a list price of nearly £40k for pretty much £30k. My partner has a golf R and previously had a Gti. I'm sure the Bmw will be the last hot hatch that is 6 cylinders and RWD. Quality is much better in the BmW. Golf feels smaller in terms of throwing it about but is actually more spacious inside. Boot is better on the Bmw if that matters.
Oh and the m140 is faster* :)
*in the dry
I have the latest F56 Mini JCW, I drive it everywhere in Sport mode and love how stable the car feels and wonderfully neutral the chassis is for a FWD car. There is barely any hint of understeer unless you try and plant the throttle mid corner and a subtle and well controlled amount of lift off oversteer when/if required. At the time I drove a Fiesta ST which I was also considering as these get great reviews, but I found it to be too much like an over-exited puppy dog with a waggly tail; great fun if you want to go sideways around every roundabout but not for me.
I really like my Mini and would recommend. It's a great car.
I also love the engine note and back fire when in 'Sport mode' with the JCW Bluetooth exhaust in 'Race mode'.
I had a previous generation Mini, the new one still has that fun factor but feels a lot safer and more grown up, which for me in my advancing years is no bad thing.
Thanks for the detailed response. Maybe it was the Clubman that was the issue. I think I'll still try and get out in a 3 door hatchback and see if it's any different.
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I do really like the cockpit of the BMW and yes that 6 cylinder engine is hugely attractive. And to be honest I'll probably never drive it hard enough to really test the limits of any of these cars!
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MX5, there can be only one.
have you looked at the Meganes? a nice 250 CUP or 275 CUP would do everything you want
Manual or Auto?
A bit of a left field choice but how about the new Honda Civic 1.5 Sport? Getting good reviews and better looking than most imho, but I guess that's subjective.
This chap certainly likes it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSxTgPlzzco
Cheers,
Gary
Golf GTi all day long. With PP if it's a new one. Does everything without effort. Fast, refined, 4 seats, good gas mileage.
Does eat front tyres if fitted with the PP but who cares.
Meganesport?
I have the auto. It's the first auto I've had so have no reference but I've no complaints either. It is very smooth and effortless, although I haven't had it on track yet to try it out properly.
Thanks. Funnily enough I've just subscribed to the Petrol Ped Youtube channel. I really like his reviews except maybe not critical enough...he loves everything he drives!
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Mrs P is in her second Golf R, manual and now the face lift model with 7 speed DSG.
The car is one hell of a package of power, handling, economy and it just fades into the background with no shouting or Drama.
Many a moto journo has called it the most complete mix of car you could ever want.
Pitch
The Mini (any Mini) is too 'Mumsnet'
Avoid anything French - will fall apart within 3 years.
Focus RS is very competent, the Golf more so.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
But the French are like a mistress. The others, like your (ones) mother-in-law.
Mind you just watched one of the 1st reviews of the new Civic Type R which sounds amazing. Much improved ride quality over the previous model and includes Comfort mode for town driving , big boot and then complete Banzai character in R+ mode.
Now that's a really mid life crisis car.
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Civic looks completely bonkers and not in a good way. It manages to make the focus Rs look classy.
But it has looks only a mother could love. I would be glad to close the garage door on that, rather than look back in desire.
I have the previous generation (FK2) and I love it! The car I wanted in my 20's (now the wrong side of 60) - it's very practical (spacewise) and although the ride is firm, it's not uncomfortable. The acceleration is fantastic once off the mark and it's a Honda, so not going to break down. The main downside for me is front tyre wear - now I know why it corners the way it does!
+1
PP model is a brilliant all rounder - very fast and stable powering out of corners.
The PP Gti suffers very bad wheel hop/tramping which became quite annoying. The R doesn't have this problem.
What, you mean drains you of money, never does what you want and suffers frequent temperamental breakdowns?
French cars are certainly not as crap as some people make out though.
We've a fairly basic 2008 C4 on our drive - It's still pretty solid and behaves itself.
M
Last edited by snowman; 13th June 2017 at 09:36.
PH rate it as the best current FWD hot hatch, I mean the styling is very marmite. I think its great personally..
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...--driven/36368
I looked at the last one (I guess) at the Geneva motor show a couple of years ago and, aside from the OTT styling, it was by far the nicest looking and feeling of the cars I looked at.
It got a bit of a mixed review in the press though.
30 grand, though, was too much (IMO) for a FWD hatch at the time...
Just looking at the spec, and I know it's a bit relative, but 0-62 in 5.8 isn't really very quick these days, is it.
M
For FWD I think the 0-60 time is somewhat limited, I think its more about the handling which this car has in spades, and to be fair it does have a 170mph top end which is pretty remarkable for FWD.
I like the fact that is has gone against the mould of the general German Eurobox and done something wacky and different, as good as the Golf/A3/Cupra/Focus are they all much of a muchness
I have a 9 year old megane r26, I have had it 3 years and done 20k miles and its not missed a beat, and I have taken it form 225 bhp to 280 bhp so a fair bit more stress on the drive train. It great fun to drive and pretty rapid, done a few track days and it does not get outdone by much.
The newer ones the (mk3) 250 and 275 and more solid feeling that the mk2 meganes. I was initially put off when I got mine a few years back with it being a Renault but I love it and if I get some money together I will prob sell mine for a 275. Or ideally a A45 AMG but that's a lot more money
From reading about them all, the golf is meant to be the best especially with the DSG but a bit characterless, with the megane more rewarding to drive.
0-62 time isn't as impressive as a similarly powered RWD or AWD car but that a problem with FWD - it scrabbles for grip off the line more so than the others - but once on the move ' say from 15mph the acceleration is fantastic.
That's not been my experience Ally but I probably don't drive fast enough to find out!!
Fair enough - It is a lot of power to stick through 2 wheels with reduced traction!
It's not exactly SLOW, either, but the numbers game just gets more and more incredible - I can remember when 170MPH was Aston Vantage territory and anything under 10 seconds 0-60 was pretty brisk!
M.
'Car' mag did a test this month which included the Golf R and the M140i (and a couple others I can't remember).... anyway the Beemer came out tops.
Personally, I'd go for the new Golf GTI PP, in DSG, parking pack and upgraded stereo/satnav.
Longer term ownership the Clubsport looks a good options. I would discount the 308 immediately.
It's just a matter of time...
I thought it was GTI Vs JCW Vs 308 or was that a different mag?
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Parking pack? Is that necessary in a smallish hatchback?
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Only if driven with zero sympathy. A tiny bit of throttle control goes a long way.
The 1 series engine is great, but the chassis can get overwhelmed even at sane road speeds. The rear starts to hop over anything that isn't billiard table smooth.
The golf is a great package. And the chassis is superb. The r has an advantage when it's damp, but I prefer the more nimble gti setup.
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My wife tends to drive hers like she stole it and has never had this problem. This despite the fact I have a standing order with the local tyre shop for front tyres.
For me this is where the R wins. It is not what it does regards performance, it is how it does it. Once you have experienced a quick 4WD FWD is just not an option, if budget allows of course.
Here's what the new facelift looks like, no shouting whatsoever, just like a 50yo likes.
But I'm only 46 so clearly the Type R is more my thing?For me this is where the R wins. It is not what it does regards performance, it is how it does it. Once you have experienced a quick 4WD FWD is just not an option, if budget allows of course.
Here's what the new facelift looks like, no shouting whatsoever, just like a 50yo likes.
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Truthfully I haven't driven the BMW hard enough (yet) to find out, you may well be right regarding chassis, the steering is certainly 'different' and it has taken me 1000 miles to get anywhere near used to it. The Gti does require you to be somewhat sympathetic though, with the R you can put the foot to the floor without even thinking.
I feel fairly qualified to give a fair comparison between all three, the Golfs I've had round the Nurburgring and Spa.
You are talking about something that is totally removed from driving a car on a public road as you should understand.
I suspect for the majority on this site that insights into on road, real world day to day ownership would be more useful.
The original question was not "which is the best track car?" If it was, no Golf of any description would figure in the answer.
Lov it, great thinking. Make the most of it buddy the BIG FIVE O will be here before you know it.But I'm only 46 so clearly the Type R is more my thing?
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Pitch
The Gti struggled with wheel hop plenty of times not just on track. A great car that we had for 50k miles but that issue was quite tiresome.
Not into hot hatches but from what I've read I'd go golf r
I can only repeat that my wife's does not and never has. Perhaps something on yours was broken.
I have driven a selection of new Golfs, Minis and the BMW 1 series from 118 to 140i.
Still not wild about the looks of any of them, but in terms of quality and driving pleasure my list would go 1. BMW 2. Mini 3. Golf
The BMW is a class act and the latest versions ride well and go like a train. Rear legroom is just acceptable.
The Golf gets marked down because it is so understated that it could be mistaken for a base model "pensioner's special" - however it isn't one of the world's most popular cars for nothing. GTi/R etc have acquired a bit of thug reputation and if you get undertaken on the motorway by a car zig-zagging through the traffic there's a good chance of it being a Golf.
Mini is sporty - but unless you go for one of the Clubman-chassis versions, there isn't a lot of rear space. I love the handling of them - corners on rails and you soon get used to higher geared steering.
As for the Honda Civic, they drive ok but they are comically ugly, and every new version seems uglier than the one before it!
Avoid French hatchbacks - even with years of development they still feel brittle and depreciation is on the painful side.
If you are looking for left-field choices perhaps throw in the mix the Seat TSi Cupra which you can negotiate within budget. Alfa Romeo Giulietta is getting older but the top spec cars are still competitive, and reliablity is much better than some people would have you believe - BUT you may struggle to find a local dealer and depreciation is high.
Last edited by UKMike; 14th June 2017 at 08:32.
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