I've been against drones since I saw one in the lakes buzzing over my head and ruining the sense of occasion created by the scenery in front of me. However, we have a couple of great trips planned and in the past few days, DJI have announced the "Spark", a tiny drone perfect for holidays IMO. It won't do slow-mo and it "only" goes to 1080p but really, it does everything I would need.
So I've been thinking of buying the Spark but at the same time, I have no idea about licenses required and the etiquette surrounding them. I know for example I can't fly one over the Grand Canyon, but hopefully I can fly one on the edges of it to shoot the vistas.
In Spain I'll be driving back (as you may have seen with a thread I created) so I like the idea of footage following the car etc. It's all unnecessary of course but it really interests me.
So any thoughts, links or negative responses you have would be great. Thanks!
Link to the Spark... http://www.wexphotographic.com/dji-s...white-1628585/
I think it is only a matter of time before their use is regulated and controlled. There are too many issues with privacy and security to worry about.
I think (but it needs confirming) that they are illegal in Spain. I am a President of a Spanish community and I was instructed by the local police to remove a cctc that was positioned to record who entered our complex.
Last edited by Mick P; 27th May 2017 at 11:36.
Each country has their own rules and regulations around private drone usage. Can't speak for Spain, but the CAA in the UK and the FAA in the US, publish their guidelines.
The CAA, in conjunction with NATS have recently produced a website with the basics on it:
http://dronesafe.uk/drone-code/
This only covers private use, if you have any intent for commercial use, the regulations change dramatically and, certainly in the U.K., you have to be accredited and registered appropriately, which is costly.
Source: I am a commercially registered drone operator.
It's only going to take a few idiots to ruin it for everyone.
Sheep certainly don't mind them...
Taken today
Taken previously
Noflydrones is a useful site for the UK: http://www.noflydrones.co.uk
There are other areas not yet covered on the site - for example, National Parks. The New Forest is prohibited, at least the areas falling under the jurisdiction of the Forestry Commission, so it would be best to check if other Forestry Commission land is restricted. Likewise, areas near cliffs, which are home to nesting sea birds are likely to be out of bounds.
I've watched a few videos now as it looks an interesting gadget. If you don't get the control unit i.e. use your phone then I doubt you would have many licence issues with the Spark. This is mainly due to the range being so small with the phone 100m vs 1.2 Miles with the controller. YOu also don't have Sport mode (31mph) available so I doubt it could follow a car without. So it definitely seems more of a selfie platform than full on drone. I guess you really need the Flymore package that then starts to hike the price.
Thanks for the replies. Yes I definitely reckon they don't have much time left in these gadgets so it feels like a last chance opportunity to get these kind of shots without having to buy them in the future.
Good point about sport mode, hadn't noticed that, although I was thinking I'd buy the controller anyway. I'd consider renting one but I doubt they're cheap and also my chances of crashing are rather high
Do you already have experience of flying a drone? I'd get some practice in if not. I bought one of these indoor flyers a few months back, they're brilliant little machines and mine has handled plenty of abuse without failing. The only issue with this one is that it'll take maybe 3 weeks to get to you once ordered.
http://www.gearbest.com/rc-quadcopte...FaEL0wodNEUGtQ
Video review here -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRrrx-2_X6s
If you'd like ideas as to how to film a road trip with drones both MrJWW and Shmee150 on YT occasionally use them, they've got some stunning shots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82dWNtMYfGs
Do you intend to fly it commercially (and according to the CAA, if you receive any sort of benefit, not just direct payments, from your flying - you are) be prepared for a world of issues. I've been trying to get licenced for a while now and I don't foresee that happening any time soon.
If you only want to fly for fun, you just have to remember to be 50 metres away from any vehicle, person or structure not directly under your control and 150 m from any 'congested area'. What's a congested area? Well, according to the CAA again, it's any area used primarily for either residential or commercial purposes, so whether you're flying in Central London or some 2 houses and a butcher's shop village somewhere in the middle of nowhere, it's still a congested area. If you look at a VFR chart, after you take out the 'congested areas' and the restricted airspaces in the UK, there's precisely nowhere left to actually fly legally.
Last edited by asteclaru; 27th May 2017 at 19:45.
Of course if you get one of these you will be just as annoying as the person in the Lake District who buzzed over your head, so don't expect to win any popularity contests.
And I suspect you might struggle to get through US Border Control with a drone in your luggage. They have stricter rules in the US where drones have to be registered to their owners "As of Dec. 21, 2015, the Federal Aviation Administration requires all owners of small unmanned aircraft, or drones, weighing between 0.55 and 55 pounds to register online before taking to the skies."
Tighter regulation is almost certainly coming to the UK in the future. Currently this article is useful but expect it to change if security tightens as a result of the Manchester bomb http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/feature/g...broad-3620507/
As for Spain >> http://www.rightspain.com/rules-regu...-flying-spain/
Last edited by UKMike; 27th May 2017 at 20:45.
Seems to me to be very dangerous using these unlicensed in large parts of the UK given how busy the airspace is. In places like the Lake District and Wales there is the potential for real issues if people aren't aware of restricted airspace. A drone strike at 500knts / 250 ft has the potential to be catastrophic to a low flying fast-jet.Originally Posted by W44NNE
I have a DJI Mavic Pro which is great and very easy to fly.
Living in China there are lots of restricted areas and flying within Beijing is impossible as the drone won't take off. Outside of Beijing in the rest of China you get quite a lot of questions from the ever present "security" people but they are usually ok if you use the drone to take a "selfie" of them and send it via WeChat!
I am currently in Thailand and a guy yesterday was flying his drone directly from the beach club I was at, hovering over everyone and generally being annoying and trying to draw attention to himself and it is these kind of people that will end it for everyone. I always make sure I always find a secluded area to fly and try to minimise any disturbance to others.
I find the following APPS useful
Hover, AirMap and DroneZones
I agree that soon drones will become so regulated that there will be very few places to use them legally.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
A lot of food for thought with this. Don't get me wrong, I had anticipated these responses but nobody wants to waste £750 of hard-earned money, let alone cause real-world issues.
The thing is, my use will be so non-commercial and discreet as possible that I was hoping any authorities who do question its viability would simply shrug it off as more of a toy. I certainly won't be taking it to any dangerous heights and safety would be the first thing on my mind. Annoyingly though, the courses I've found for training and lessons are all very expensive, in some cases as much as the drone.
If these courses were more viable, there would be better knowledge amongst users; unless I'm missing something and there are cheaper courses out there.
Hi Wayne,
just join a drone forum... members do meet up and you can learn for free...
Check FPV lab forum or phantompilots.com
I fly the DJI Phantom myself and I've got BMFA insurance (so it covers you in case you cause any damage)... I'm happy to show you few things if you need to
(I mainly fly model aircraft, but the quadcopters are great as aerial video platforms)
I have a Phantom 4 and it's the easiest thing in the world to fly. If the one you buy is anything like this, you really won't need lessons.
I live in Leyland so not too far from Manchester and you'd be welcome to have a go with mine if you fancy a go before you buy.
The idea of birds eye pictures is great to start with. They get boring very quick though. I had a P3S and loved flying it. They are stupidly easy to fly and I didn't own any other drone before hand. As long as you do your research on what to do when things go wrong (like loss of gps signal) and practice these situations you will be fine.
Brilliant, thanks, I may be in touch soon once I've got a few things out of the way. I purchased one of the Chinese drones mentioned half way through the thread so will have that soon to play with. Once done, I'll give it to my little cousin.
For me it's all about getting different pictures when I go away. If I can achieve a different angle with a drone it was worth it. Also I'm sure I'll get used to flying it quickly enough but if I get some security coming up to me, it would be nice to state I have decent experience :-)
I have a P4 too. Are you flying it in Position or Atti? If he wanted to get licenced, the flight assessment would be in Atti, which is a lot more difficult to fly. Add to this that you have to always keep your eyes on the quad (so you can't look at the screen) makes it even harder.
I'm not trying to be a humbug, I just want him to have all the facts before spending £1k plus on a toy he might not be able to use for what he wants. I certainly wish I knew all I know now before getting involved with quads.
The thing is, in CAA talk, commercial work is not limited to getting paid for flying a drone (for example, to survey a plot of land etc).
If you're say, a photographer, even if you don't do aerial footage for money, if you publish that footage on your website for example, and that somehow brings in more clients, it will still be considered commercial work and you need to be licenced.
That being said, at the moment, they don't have the means to enforce this, so it would require for someone to tell on you for them to even be aware that your footage is being used commercially. It's good to know regardless, if you want to stay on the right side of the law and all that.
Last edited by asteclaru; 30th May 2017 at 12:57.
Makes sense. If it wasn't £1500 I'd seriously consider taking the correct course and become qualified. Then I could do with it as I please more, but for now, most definitely this will be for personal use.
Mob another note, I don't know if I can wait for a spark, and after holding, but not using a Mavic an hour ago, I was really impressed. I've posted a WTB on here!!
Yes, getting licenced is not cheap.
Remember that any course you do with an NQE (National Qualified Entity - basically companies that can train you) is just the start, to enable you to apply for your PfAW (Permission for Aerial Work).
So, you'll need :
- The RPA (Remote Pilot Authorization) course : with an NQE (I believe there are 5 or 6 NQEs in the UK) - ranges between £1000 to £1500
- Once you get the RPA, you can apply for the PfAW : between £112-£224 depending on your drone. This enables you to fly 'commercialy', but you still need to abide by the minimum distances regulations (150 m from 'congested areas' and so on). I'm not sure, so don't hold me to this, but I think this is an annual thing that you need to keep renewing
- Once you get your PfAW you can apply for dispensation from the minimum distances regulations. As far as I know, this doesn't cost you anything, but you need a lot of flying experience to be accepted
- Commercial insurance : again, it's been quite a while since I've started my course and I'm not too sure, but I think it's around £450 a year for a Phantom 4 - the Mavic should be a bit cheaper.
All things considered, it's only worth getting licenced if you're opening an aerial photography business. As a casual thing it's too expensive and too much hassle. I'm only doing it because we need someone to fly a drone at work (I work in demolition and we want to get aerial footage of our sites), but if I knew what I was getting into I would have steered well clear. All the regulations and hoops that you have to jump through (operations manuals, risk assessments, method statements, site surveys, visual observers, noticing everyone in the area that you're flying and so on) just take all the fun out of flying.
Last edited by asteclaru; 30th May 2017 at 18:13.
Yeah so I'll stick to personal use then 😄😄
Sounds like a good plan.
Please don't get me wrong : I don't want to put you off flying or getting licenced, it's just that you're only going to find out about all these requirements from someone who's been there, so I have to let you know about everything involved. I certainly wish someone told me about all this before I offered to fly our drone. If at some point you do want to look into making a few quid out of flying, I'll be more than happy to give you more advice, but for personal use only, this link has pretty much all the info you need :
https://www.caa.co.uk/unmannedaircraft/
Nope. Overruled by the court a week or so ago, although may not be permanent. Although DJI now require you to register your drone with them which allows you do download location specific firmware which removes ability limitations (such as a range restriction)
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/19/tech...istration-faa/
https://www.dji.com/newsroom/news/dj...rmware-updates
Ha, didn't see that there was a big post about this already before I put my bit on the WTB
I been into FPV drone racing/acro for a while, i have my own hand built quad you'd be surprised how many old'uns take to this sport.
As they say Fat Shark Rules.
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