Reply With QuoteStill using the vented rally style strap in this muggy weather!
Lovely piece Raj!
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Thats excellent detective work Ian!
Still using the vented rally style strap in this muggy weather!
Lovely piece Raj!
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Resist the temptation. :( That's an ugly strap. Is it PVD? Or, at least, sprayed black? Hope you're putting it on a Dark Sie Of The Moon.Originally Posted by Velorum
I am tempted to try a Geckota vintage style mesh.
Would be interested to know what mesh alternatives others have tried.
And believe me - I know ugly straps.
No its satin stainless steel according to the Watch Gecko website.
>>EDIT - sorry just realised that I posted the wrong photo, have now corrected my original post <<
Your rainbow flag one might be just a shade too loud and proud for me I think! Well, I was born in the 50's.
On the subject of straps - GGB opened for new orders a couple of minutes ago. He will be open for a maximum of two days but the ordering system may close anytime before then dependent upon how busy things are. Best be quick!
Last edited by Velorum; 23rd June 2017 at 20:28.
I would have thought it was more to do with the fact that the bracelets were made in the USA than the fact the Omega bracelet was stronger, that and the adjustability.
I've had three or four Forstner/JBC bracelets and they're very comfortable.
It also says in MWO i.e. the bible that the JB Champ was chosen for it lack of strength vs the Omega original as they would rather the bracelet gave than the astronaut's wrist or suit. Very comfortable but weaker than the Omega original it seems.
The ones I had didn't seem particularly weak, there was a 'Buy American' program in place during the time period and NASA were under obligation to adhere to it where possible.
Well the trusted sources say that the reason was 'breakabiltiy' and in any case the watch head isn't exactly American in any way and there were home grown options for the whole watch from Hamilton, Bulova so I don't think that thinking holds water to be honest.
I won't abuse the MWO copyright by posting a pic of the page on the JB Champion, in fact they warrant a whole 2 page spread but the key phrases used in the text include: "the real reason for the choice of this bracelet is somewhat ironic. During a safety test , the NASA equipment engineers realised that the Omega steel bracelet could represent a hazard:..... the JB Champion.... could be easily broken to free a trapped astronaut.... (source Omega archives)
Last edited by Padders; 23rd June 2017 at 18:57.
The Omega was the only chronograph that passed the testing;
Gemini Program
In 1962, NASA decided to equip the astronauts of its future Gemini programm with a highly accurate, legible, resistant and reliable wrist chronograph.
Donald K. Slayton, head of the flight Crew Operations , took action to select the chronographs :
For the purpose of comparison tests, NASA purchased chronographs different brands from Corrigan's, a large retailer in Houston, Texas the following watches where purchased : Elgin, Benrus, Hamilton, Mido, Piccard, Omega, Bulova, Rolex, Longine and Gruen. Of theses only 3 where selected for the comparative evaluation testing :
Longines, Omega and Rolex (Omega movement : Omega 321 , Rolex movement : Valjoux 72 , Longines : Longines 13 ZN)
1965 first qualification program :
Model tested : probably 105.012 no documents found for the moment to firmly state this , but for sure a Speedmaster equiped with Omega 321 caliber
High temperature: 48 hours at 71º C followed by 30 minutes at 93º C. This under a pressure of 0,35atm and relative humidity not over 15%.
Low temperature: Four hours at -18º C.
Temperature-pressure: 0,000001atm and temperature raised to 71º C. Temperature then lowered to -18º C in 45 minutes and again raised to 71º C in 45 minutes. This cycle was repeated fifteen times.
Relative humidity: 240 hours in relatuve humidity of at least 95% and at temperatures varying between 20º C and 71º C. The steam had a pH value of between 6,5 and 7,5.
Oxygen atmosphere: Exposure to 100% oxygen atmosphere at a pressure of 0,35atm and a temperature of 71º C for 48 hours.
Shock: Six 11 millisecond shocks of 40g each in six different directions.
Acceleration: Linear acceleration from 1g to 7,25g within 333 seconds.
Decompression: 90 minutes in a vaccum of 0 10-6 atm and a temperature of 71º C and 30 minutes in the same vaccum but at a temperature of 93ºC.
High pressure: Exposure to 1,6atm for one hour.
Vibration: Three cycles of 30 minutes (lateral, horizontal and vertical), the frequency varying from 5 to 2000cps and back to 5cps in 15 minutes. Average acceleration per impulse 8,8g.
Acoustic noise: 130dB over a frequency range from 40 to 10000Hz for 30 minutes
Results of the tests :
Omega Speedmaster : gained 21 minutes during decompression test and lost 15 minutes during the acceleration test , the luminescence of the dial was lost during the test
Rolex Daytona : stopped running on two occasions during the relative humidity test and during the high pressure test when the sweep second hand wraped and press against the other hands
Longine Wittnauer : Crystal warped and disengaged during the high pressure test , same fault occured during the decompression test
Final conclusion : the Omega chronograph performmed satisfactorily
Uhuh, though the bit about the Omega being purchased in that way has recently been convincingly debunked (the Omegas tested were applied for and supplied direct from the central distributor, not a local store) but I don't see how that supports your suggestions that they used an American bracelet on patriotic grounds and not inferiority of build.
Last edited by Padders; 23rd June 2017 at 19:57.
You're obviously welcome to believe what you want, you suggested there were American alternatives to the Omega, I'm pointing out they failed the test. How do you explain the Velcro straps used? They're hardly likely to break easily?
The velcro straps were for EVA/suit use only. Have you ever seen one? They are about 3 feet long and are for a very different use to the JB Champion or Omega braclet. It is kind of you to allow me to believe what I want but it seems that your view is in the minority looking at the acknowledged published sources. The reason I mentioned the origin of the watch head is that it seemed to me that if NASA were all that constrained by nationalistic concerns they would have used an American watch, which obviously they didn't. As you may know, the timers in the Apollo capsules were US made Bulova hummers by the way, the one on the Eagle apparently failed.
Last edited by Padders; 23rd June 2017 at 20:33.
Ed White's EVA, JUne 3 1965
Buzz Aldrin Apollo 11 (wearing his Speedmaster on Velcro (@3ft long according to Padders, LOL)
Both watches on Velcro in space, are you suggesting NASA was only concerned about the astronauts health and safety (having a bracelet that would break easily) on earth?
There's never been any suggestion astronauts take a strap changing tool with them so they can swap between bracelet and strap in space?
The Omega was carried as a backup instrument, why would you want it on a strap that could break easily?
Last edited by Gunscrossed; 23rd June 2017 at 20:43.
Tell you what, find a reliable published source to back your suggested reason for the use of JB Champion rather than fluff and bluster and I will listen without mild scorn. Otherwise it is just your opinion. Mine is at least backed up by others.
3 feet long!! really, lol.
https://youtu.be/fy3qaaIDglk
And you're suggesting they swap between bracelet and Velcro in the lunar module?
Last edited by Gunscrossed; 23rd June 2017 at 20:45.
Who says a source is reliable? Just because something gets published doesn't make it a reliable source.
The Velcro straps came in different lengths
The long ones to fit over bulky pressure garments
I believe that these were later replaced by retainers sewn directly on the space suit sleeve
As regards the shorter versions they were used on the ground and in flight but not on EVA's
Uhuh Thanks for that, interesting. How does that support the bracelet thing you suggest? Changing the subject doesn't really help by the way.
Whereas your unsupported supposition is to be implicitly trusted? I don't think it unreasonable to ask you to back you your suggestion with sources or corroboration, that is how academic research works. Anything else is just bulls**t or opinion really. If you had said your opinion was that the strap was chosen for a given reason I may have raised an eyebrow and let it lie, as it is I fancied an argument. My opinion is just that an opinion, but it is shared by respected sources.
The long Velcro is @ 19"-21.5" long, not 3ft :-)
Last edited by Gunscrossed; 23rd June 2017 at 21:10.
I'm expressing an opinion on what I've read and seen from multiple sources, I've posted photos and evidence. I'm certainly not arguing with you but you won't change my personal opinion just because you read something in a book.
I'm not asking anyone to take any notice of what I've said.
Well said. To be fair in stating your opinion as fact you are asking others to take note but then so am I. That pedantic point aside, there is of course chance that you are right, after all we are only really exchanging opinions, the fact that the velcro strap is unbreakable does ask questions I acknowledge. It does seem a pretty pointless argument but then I am watching Elbow on the Glasto coverage, hence my desire to discuss anything else. MWO did cost me a fortune so if I can't use it to club others over the head on here what use was it?
I used to collect c321 Speedmasters and associated stuff, inc. the bracelets.
These are just my personal opinions, I'm happy for people to share knowledge but don't be annoyed if I question what you put forward as 'fact'.
From my research only three astronauts wore Speedmasters on JB mesh in space, all wore them as a 'secondary', they also carried the required 'primary' watch on Velcro.
They are;
Cernan - Apollo 10 and 17 (Straight end pieces)
Gordon - Apollo 12 (Horned end pieces)
Young - Apollo 10 and possibly 16 (Horned end pieces)
The JB bands were primarily worn on earth, why then would NASA choose them based on some H&S reason over the fact they were readily available and US made?
Please share if you know different from what I've written above.
Last edited by Gunscrossed; 23rd June 2017 at 21:27.
Ironic really since I only bit when you put forward your opinion as 'fact' but there you go. I think we are flogging a dead horse here and I am not sure how the end pieces are relevant really but the point that no Omega bracelet was flown does suggest to me that there may have had a reason to not use them other than that you postulate.
"The JB bands were primarily worn on earth, why then would NASA choose them based on some H&S reason over the fact they were readily available and US made?"
To turn this on its head, why remove the bracelets which the original watches were presumably supplied on in the first place? I truly doubt it was done so Joe Shmoe in Pennsylvania could keep his job in the bracelet factory.
Last edited by Padders; 23rd June 2017 at 21:41.
Is that a speedy Mr Herbert has on?
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The end pieces are only relevant if you're a WIS and interested in JB Champion bracelets.
The watches ordered (not including the original test pieces) were supplied to NASA 'head only' unless you know different?
I've never bothered to search to see if any astronaut wore their personal Speedmaster on an Omega bracelet, I guess it's possible.
We know Jack Swigert and Ron Evans wore Rolex GMT Masters on oyster bracelets in space!
GGB SPV1 & SPV3 ordered, in black.
I fancied an additional SPV1 in light olive but given the cost thought I'd see how the black looks first.
Got the Omega "hop up buckle" option also.
Can't wait to see them!
Sounds good.
I have had a tan SPV1.5 on order for a couple of weeks now. As soon as he started taking orders again yesterday I asked for two SPV2's one with and Omega hop up and one with a black buckle - different labels on each.
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I've just ordered an SPV2 & SPV3, that's an expensive start to the day before i even got out of bed! Look forward to fitting them when they arrive. Now, just got to buy an X-33 to go with the patch I ordered!!
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Yeah, quite right! Too many Pisco Sours the evening before posting...
- Edit -
I've corrected my post. Most GGB stuff is really good value, Carl is a better craftsman than businessman!
Bugger, I saw he was selling again for a limited time at the weekend. Went on to place an order and I was too late, shut again.
On leather NATO today, looking a bit rustic
A departure from my normal manual wind Speedy Pro's. This piece, marking Schumacher's 7 world titles, doesn't get much wrist time. Overall it is beautifully finished and I like it in many ways, despite being rather large, but I find the hands quite annoying - practically illegible in some light.
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Last edited by tom waring; 29th June 2017 at 10:24.
On a lovely Heuerville Strap -71 Speedie
Did anyone receive their GGB strap yet (or any communication)?
Only the acknowledgement email shortly after I ordered - nothing else as yet. I suspect that he has a large batch to fabricate now and it will take a little time.
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Well that's fair enough I suppose!
It's just that my Speedmaster needs to go back to Omega as it's +10s/day but despite having received the service pack from Omega, I was trying to hold on till the GGB arrived.
What is the time keeping parameter for the Speedmaster? If they give you one
Lead time is usually at least three weeks and he's got a very important order for me to get finished first
145.022
-1 / +11 seconds per day.
They asked me to send it to them if it exceeded +10/day; my watch timing app gave a fairly consistent +10.9s/day.
Talking of champion bracelets, I wore my 69 on this for a long time, very comfy and infinitely adjustable.
Got a confirmation email after ordering. Seem to recall that the lead time for manufacture and delivery was a couple of weeks at least.
Thanks Max - she's lovely
X-33 Duo.
I just got myself a Speedy collection :-)
2017-07-04 16.36.01 by ataripower, on Flickr
Quite a rarity to come across someone with both. Exclusivity and value aside, which do you prefer?
X-33 Duo.
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