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Thread: Rolex Box & Papers

  1. #1
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    Rolex Box & Papers

    I have a Rolex 16013 I am looking to sell, however it has no box and papers and I'm worried it won't sell because of this reason, there are plenty of boxes on eBay I can buy, I have also paid for it to be checked over and an insurance valuation, but my question is. Is it possible at all to get replacement papers from Rolex at a cost? The watch is 35 years old so surly they expect these things to be mislaid over that period of time. Just be nice to get some duplicates and sell it as a complete package

  2. #2
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    Replacements aren't available.

    It will still sell. Just not for as much as one with papers would.

  3. #3
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    I think the simple answer is no. It doesn't really matter that much, most watches of that age do not have box or papers and buying a similar box is unlikely to impress anyone. People will rightly be more concerned about the condition of the watch and any service history. A watch that has been through Rolex recently for a service and is under their service warranty is always going to be more desirable to a potential buyer, but that logically pushes your asking price up.

  4. #4
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    Use some common sense.

    At that age, the condition of the watch is the major factor; if the watch is in great condition no one will care whether the box and papers are with it. It's more important to have all the bracelet links present
    and some recent service history.

    Adding non-original boxes or papers is a waste of money IMO.

    Paul

  5. #5
    Sneaky sales post?


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriskibbledj View Post
    I have a Rolex 16013 I am looking to sell, however it has no box and papers and I'm worried it won't sell because of this reason, there are plenty of boxes on eBay I can buy, I have also paid for it to be checked over and an insurance valuation, but my question is. Is it possible at all to get replacement papers from Rolex at a cost? The watch is 35 years old so surly they expect these things to be mislaid over that period of time. Just be nice to get some duplicates and sell it as a complete package
    Don't worry about it.

    There are two types of Rolex buyer.

    The first group are the WIS who typically frequent this forum. They would sell their wives and daughters for a "full set", such is their passion.

    The second group are normal human beings who just want a Rolex. The box is just a space consuming article to them.

    I recently spoke to my local AD and he told me that over 90% of the pre 2000 Rolex that he sells come without the original papers.

    The most valuable thing is a certificate of a recent Rolex service.

    Don't worry, it will sell.

    Regards

    Mick

  7. #7
    If Rolex have serviced it and you have proof it will sell for very close to its market value with or without a box. A few hundred less may be.

  8. #8
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    Agree with comments - Rolex service will be major draw to the watch, but original box n papers is always really nice to have IMO

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Don't worry about it.

    There are two types of Rolex buyer.

    The first group are the WIS who typically frequent this forum. They would sell their wives and daughters for a "full set", such is their passion.

    The second group are normal human beings who just want a Rolex. The box is just a space consuming article to them.

    I recently spoke to my local AD and he told me that over 90% of the pre 2000 Rolex that he sells come without the original papers.

    The most valuable thing is a certificate of a recent Rolex service.

    Don't worry, it will sell.

    Regards

    Mick
    Excuse my ignorance but what does "WIS" mean? Ta.

  10. #10
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    Wis- watch idiot savant

  11. #11
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    Buy the watch, not the full set! The fixation with having box, papers, hang tag, stickers, original fresh air that filled the box etc is crazy when you think about it.........the important bit is the watch watch itself, or it is to most sane people

    Paul

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Buy the watch, not the full set! The fixation with having box, papers, hang tag, stickers, original fresh air that filled the box etc is crazy when you think about it.........the important bit is the watch watch itself, or it is to most sane people

    Paul


    So you'd buy a Patek 5208P-001 for eg then just throw all nonsense that comes with it in the bin then?

  13. #13
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooshabak View Post
    So you'd buy a Patek 5208P-001 for eg then just throw all nonsense that comes with it in the bin then?
    That's a crazy analogy, no one in their right mind is suggesting buying a new watch and throwing everything away, but when buying second hand the watch is the most important consideration.

    So would you prefer a mint 5208P-001 second hand with no box and papers or one in a lesser condition that happens to be complete with all the boxes and papers etc?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    That's a crazy analogy, no one in their right mind is suggesting buying a new watch and throwing everything away, but when buying second hand the watch is the most important consideration.

    So would you prefer a mint 5208P-001 second hand with no box and papers or one in a lesser condition that happens to be complete with all the boxes and papers etc?

    You are true but I was merely highlighting the flippancy in his statement.

    I don't think you could compare those two choices fairly as the price difference would be so vast I would be forced to pick one by default but personally Im a sucker for the B n P where practical

  15. #15
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    It's also a matter of provenance. If you have everything that came with it that's a pretty good indication that the previous owner(s) have looked after it, not a fake and more importantly it probably hasn't been nicked during it's life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Smith View Post
    It's also a matter of provenance. If you have everything that came with it that's a pretty good indication that the previous owner(s) have looked after it, not a fake and more importantly it probably hasn't been nicked during it's life.
    And as our esteemed Haywood Milton has said many times, boxes and papers are so much easier to fake than watches and there are plenty of very good fake watches about!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriskibbledj View Post
    I have a Rolex 16013 I am looking to sell, however it has no box and papers and I'm worried it won't sell because of this reason, there are plenty of boxes on eBay I can buy, I have also paid for it to be checked over and an insurance valuation, but my question is. Is it possible at all to get replacement papers from Rolex at a cost? The watch is 35 years old so surly they expect these things to be mislaid over that period of time. Just be nice to get some duplicates and sell it as a complete package
    What spec is the watch (bracelet dial colour etc.)?


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  18. #18
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Stealth sales and purchase initiatives tend not to end well here.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  19. #19
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    I have sold a few Rolex over the years (personal sale) a couple were without original papers, they took a bit longer to sell and obviously at a lower price but they sold in the end, there will be a buyer out there.
    At 35 year old I wouldn't expect the papers anyway to be honest.

  20. #20
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    Hardly stealth, I was just interested to learn about the watch. I'm certainly not in the market for a Rolex right now


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  21. #21
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    Simple answer

    Simple answer is no they don't and just price accordingly or it won't sell!!

    As long as the watch is priced right it will always sell!!
    Don't get me wrong I love full box and papers but it's not a deal breaker if the price is right?

    Chris

  22. #22
    I'm ambivalent about box/papers in a Rolex and have bought with and without before now. If you are buying watches to wear there is little point chasing full sets. Right watch, right price, box/papers is just a bonus curiosity to read once and then sit in the cupboard with the rest.

    Sure, they are nice to have but you can't rely on them as a provider of provenance in any case. I look at them more from an ephemera point of view as it's nice to see old documents, booklets and sales receipts. In the end it's about the watch itself and for that you need to buy from a trusted seller, buy the seller, educate yourself about the details and tread with extreme caution!

    Box/Papers adds a little bit of value (coupla hundred) which you would pay for up front and get back out at the end if you sold. You could argue no box/papers is a better value prop if you are buying to keep.

    Box/papers is also a bit of a western obsession as many other parts of the world couldn't really care less. It's just packaging at the end of the day. Another bizarre obsession I see is people seeking out papers stamped with a local AD or one from your country of residence, as if it makes the watch even more trustworthy and authentic! Then again, collector behaviour can often be driven by OCD character traits :-D

  23. #23
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    Not always!

    Quote Originally Posted by fordy964 View Post
    I'm ambivalent about box/papers in a Rolex and have bought with and without before now. If you are buying watches to wear there is little point chasing full sets. Right watch, right price, box/papers is just a bonus curiosity to read once and then sit in the cupboard with the rest.

    Sure, they are nice to have but you can't rely on them as a provider of provenance in any case. I look at them more from an ephemera point of view as it's nice to see old documents, booklets and sales receipts. In the end it's about the watch itself and for that you need to buy from a trusted seller, buy the seller, educate yourself about the details and tread with extreme caution!

    Box/Papers adds a little bit of value (coupla hundred) which you would pay for up front and get back out at the end if you sold. You could argue no box/papers is a better value prop if you are buying to keep.

    Box/papers is also a bit of a western obsession as many other parts of the world couldn't really care less. It's just packaging at the end of the day. Another bizarre obsession I see is people seeking out papers stamped with a local AD or one from your country of residence, as if it makes the watch even more trustworthy and authentic! Then again, collector behaviour can often be driven by OCD character traits :-D
    I agree on the not needed for daily wearers and is just nice to have however I would have to humbly disagree on the couple of hundred extra as it does depend on the model? Ive been searching for a Red Sub and without box and papers you could get one from £9-13 thousand however all the ones I can actually find that have box and papers are at the £13-20 thousand price range😳😳

    So yes doesn't always mean much but maybe in 40yrs from now when your kids realise you have an unworn full set LV in the safe they will be pretty grateful you were so anal!!

    Chris

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by subchris View Post
    I agree on the not needed for daily wearers and is just nice to have however I would have to humbly disagree on the couple of hundred extra as it does depend on the model? Ive been searching for a Red Sub and without box and papers you could get one from £9-13 thousand however all the ones I can actually find that have box and papers are at the £13-20 thousand price range

    So yes doesn't always mean much but maybe in 40yrs from now when your kids realise you have an unworn full set LV in the safe they will be pretty grateful you were so anal!!

    Chris
    It's a good point!

  25. #25
    If you bought a 35 year old 911, would you expect it to have the original receipt? Manual? Fsh inc all receipts/mot's etc?

    If it did, it would be absolutely amazing, and priced accordingly.....

  26. #26
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystery Scott View Post
    Sneaky sales post?
    Calm down, he's been a member since 2008. Not enough posts to access SC but give him some credit.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Calm down, he's been a member since 2008. Not enough posts to access SC but give him some credit.
    True that, credit where credit is due.

    He's also been member of replica-watch.info since 2011 and bought multiple fake Rolex there.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  28. #28
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    True that, credit where credit is due.

    He's also been member of replica-watch.info since 2011 and bought multiple fake Rolex there.
    Ah.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Don't worry about it.

    There are two types of Rolex buyer.

    The first group are the WIS who typically frequent this forum. They would sell their wives and daughters for a "full set", such is their passion.

    The second group are normal human beings who just want a Rolex. The box is just a space consuming article to them.

    I recently spoke to my local AD and he told me that over 90% of the pre 2000 Rolex that he sells come without the original papers.

    The most valuable thing is a certificate of a recent Rolex service.

    Don't worry, it will sell.

    Regards

    Mick
    But Mick, are you advocating the sale of a Rolex?

  30. #30
    Master mycroft's Avatar
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    Blimey, Raffe - 4 and a half years to respond to a post! That must be some sort of record...

    Simon

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nealywheelie View Post
    But Mick, are you advocating the sale of a Rolex?
    It's up to him but I wouldn't do it. Selling Rolex is really a mugs game and we all know it.

  32. #32
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Even a fake one? Who is the mug, then?
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  33. #33
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    True that, credit where credit is due.

    He's also been member of replica-watch.info since 2011 and bought multiple fake Rolex there.
    Ouch

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft View Post
    Blimey, Raffe - 4 and a half years to respond to a post! That must be some sort of record...

    Simon
    Must of struck a nerve with my Covid comment in the other thread. What a sad sad human.

  35. #35
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriskibbledj View Post
    Must of struck a nerve with my Covid comment in the other thread. What a sad sad human.
    Sure, you know when people start making up lies in order to explain their bonkers world view, that is often a sign of a life filled with lies and dishonesty.

    It only took a few minutes of searching to find out that you are a total fraud.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  36. #36
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    The comment on this one is quite funny.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/S1EjX43Kd0g

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriskibbledj View Post
    Must of struck a nerve with my Covid comment in the other thread. What a sad sad human.
    Says the fraudster.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by chriskibbledj View Post
    Must of struck a nerve with my Covid comment in the other thread. What a sad sad human.
    Have.

  39. #39
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    Rolex papers, boxes and condition.

    IMHO box and papers are a plus when buying a vintage 4digit Rolex (especially the prices correct boxes and bits are fetching, for certain models). However, Condition is the paramount factor. I would always chase condition and originality over paper work and boxes.

    Choice, minty watch no papers average watch full set?

    If it’s a younger 5digit reference or later model have Rolex service it without a polish if so desired, for some paper work if you are going to move it on later and piece of mind.

    M

  40. #40
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Lolz.

    You read the thread?
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  41. #41
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by milwatch126 View Post
    IMHO box and papers are a plus when buying a vintage 4digit Rolex (especially the prices correct boxes and bits are fetching, for certain models). However, Condition is the paramount factor. I would always chase condition and originality over paper work and boxes.

    Choice, minty watch no papers average watch full set?

    If it’s a younger 5digit reference or later model have Rolex service it without a polish if so desired, for some paper work if you are going to move it on later and piece of mind.

    M
    What if this was to embolden a fake watch?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Use some common sense.

    At that age, the condition of the watch is the major factor; if the watch is in great condition no one will care whether the box and papers are with it. It's more important to have all the bracelet links present
    and some recent service history.
    Paul
    No it isn’t.
    Not in the real world.
    Crazy it may be but the simple fact is the older a sports Rolex is, the more valuable the original box/papers/booklets/tags/etc are.

    You can rage against it as much as you like.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchlovr View Post
    No it isn’t.
    Not in the real world.
    Crazy it may be but the simple fact is the older a sports Rolex is, the more valuable the original box/papers/booklets/tags/etc are.

    You can rage against it as much as you like.
    I’ll leave that market to the w****rs who’ve got more money than sense. At the level of vintage watches I get involved with common sense does prevail.

    Edit: If this is true, my 16013 which is in virtually unworn condition (probably the best example on the planet) must be worth more than I thought, it’s got the original box & papers plus an advertising catalogue, that makes a 5 grand watch worth at least 7K! If that’s the case I’ll cheerfully eat my words and fill my boots. At some point I’ll sell this watch, it won’t go on SC, it’ll go to the trade, can’t be bothered dealing with people at that sort of money, but when I describe it as the best example on the planet I am not exaggerating.
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 30th November 2021 at 00:21.

  44. #44
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Whatever the rights or wrongs original papers add a significant premium. Do they guarantee authenticity? No. Can you get a great watch that is “loose”? Of course. I see a lot of 20 year old watches without papers priced as if they are present.

    The older the watch, the less likely to have original papers. Mine all have either original full set (as I bought new) or original papers, and my eldest is 22 years. At 50 years hardly any will have them and the most important thing is the authenticity of the watch and it’s constituent parts. An old watch with original dial and hands, and full set from the original sale will of course command quite a premium. It takes quite some expertise to buy vintage, I certainly don’t have that!

    Dave


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  45. #45
    Grand Master
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    The point I tried to make is that the condition of the watch should always take priority, it’s unrealistic to expect a 50+ year old watch to have the original box and papers present and if they are it’s a mistake to let this distract from assessing the watch on its condition. Some folks get a warm feeling from having the box and papers even if the watch itself is mediocre, good luck to them, they’re the ones with more money than sense.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    The point I tried to make is that the condition of the watch should always take priority, it’s unrealistic to expect a 50+ year old watch to have the original box and papers present and if they are it’s a mistake to let this distract from assessing the watch on its condition. Some folks get a warm feeling from having the box and papers even if the watch itself is mediocre, good luck to them, they’re the ones with more money than sense.
    -And don’t know their arse from their elbows when buying a vintage watch. Boxes and papers can also be faked. Just do the ground work (and I mean lots of homework) and you should be fine. As, for the initial question, no, the closest thing you can get is service papers that will mean anything to a perspective buyer.

    M
    P.S. this DJ must be New in Box to be so sweet. I would love to see a few micro photo's of it.
    Last edited by milwatch126; 30th November 2021 at 10:16.

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by chriskibbledj View Post
    Must of struck a nerve with my Covid comment utter BS in the other thread.
    We like facts here on TZ-UK.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Sure, you know when people start making up lies in order to explain their bonkers world view, that is often a sign of a life filled with lies and dishonesty.

    It only took a few minutes of searching to find out that you are a total fraud.
    In your search Sherlock you'd have also discovered that my last login to that site was 2016.... How come you never mentioned that bit? Just being the narrow minded left wing sheep you are just like to outline what people want to hear rather than facts.

    In 2011 i was a parts advisor on minimum wage, having a huge watch obsession i couldn't afford the real deal and i did buy reps many many years ago. I have no shame in that, i was who i was. I never tried to tell anyone they were real or fool anyone.

    It was all i could afford at that stage of my life, Now if you have tried to or think that has embarrassed me then it kind of sums up the human being you are.

    I am at a much different stage of my life, not been on that site for over 6 years and have a great watch collection with MANY successful deals with MANY long standing members on here (I notice you also failed to miss out all the mentioned in hero and villains i have) no surprise from your narrow twisted minded self.

    So yea, if that was an attempt of trying to shame and embarrass me. What a poor effort that was.

    So to summarise, i bought a few replica watches 10 years ago when on minimum wage.

    Not been on said site in 6 years

    Done number of successful deals with high end pieces with long standing members who will vouch

    What a sad sad human

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    We like facts here on TZ-UK.

    R
    Oh dear

  49. #49
    Oh dear indeed.

    Are you going to substantiate your claims in that thread?

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Oh dear indeed.

    Are you going to substantiate your claims in that thread?

    R
    It takes 30 seconds to see what my last login to that site was, and another 30 to see my feedback in H&R,

    I am sure you can manage it.

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