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Thread: The motivation weight loss thread

  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    So, just a bit less radical but keeping as low on the sugar as reasonably possible.
    Yep. Another thing to consider, which I've been moving towards as I try to do more training every day, is no so much what to eat as when to eat it. There seems to be a growing body of evidence that it's a bad idea to eat carbs first thing in the morning, but can be important post-training (in fact this is the only time it is OK to have sugar, but should still only be about 100 calories max, withing an hour of a hard workout - not just a brisk walk).

    So what I'm trying to do now is have a low-carb omelette for brunch (I never bother with breakfast anyway) then a small bowl of porridge or muesli mid-afternoon and a main meal that contains a protein source like chicken or pork, with carbs in the form of either rice, cabbage-heavy salad, or mixed roasted veg with a few potatoes. Occasionally even some pasta, just need to watch the quantities. This is eaten shortly after finishing my 1.5 hour daily training programme.

    I am also watching my fruit intake: one apple as a midday snack, one banana immediately after training, and desert after main meal is normally a portion of figs with walnuts. I am trying to adjust my LDL:HDL cholesterol ratio slightly over the next 6 months, so this is heavily optimised for soluble fibre (optimal target seems to be about 8g per day). Figs for desert are pretty good actually, I've had absolutely no cravings for cakes or chocolate for some time. I even had some ice cream recently and could have taken or left it, honestly. I just ate it because it was there.

    I've realised that I get too bored to stick to a fully ketogenic diet, but what I can do quite easily is keep things like rice & pasta to a minimum and ensure I only eat them when my muscles are going to take up the extra glucose instead of it being stored as fat. I also don't really miss bread unless I try to cut out carbs completely.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    This is a good starting point, although it lumps "sugary" and "fatty" foods together, when really the "fatty" foods are things like crisps and donuts, which are high in both fats (and hence calories) and also high-GI starches, which trigger an insulin response, causing a drop in blood sugar:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ing-more-food/

    The same thing doesn't happen with foods that are nearly all fat/oil, which has a very high satiation effect and take a long time to digest.

    Here's a widely-cited study on the effects of sugary drinks specifically:

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/51/6/963.full.pdf

    In summary, all subjects saw a drop of around 200 calories from all dietary sources excluding the drinks being studied, when drinking about 2 pints of fizzy drinks per day. However, the group that was sweetened with HFCS rather than aspartame were getting an extra 500 calories of sugar and they all gained significant amounts of weight as a result.

    There are further studies, which I'm not going to cite for now, into the issue of a homeostatic setpoint. This is why it is much harder to lose weight than it is to gain weight: the downwards-regulating effect is quite weak, whereas the upwards-regulating effect is quite strong. That basically means that once you have gained weight, your body tries really hard to keep that weight. So that is actually another positive feedback loop: you have to gain the weight in the first place, but refined carbohydrates are what is most likely to cause that, since other macronutrients are better regulated by homeostasis in the first place (i.e., you can gain weight through fats and proteins if you are trying, but with sugar you will not notice).
    There are many different types of fats, not all are considered as satiating or take relatively long to digest.

    Consuming 500 extra calories from a control group is going to lead to weight gain.

    I see nothing that shows a confirmed 'feedback loop' for sugar over and above fats or protein.

    The homeostatic point is an interesting one, but possibly more catch 22 - people revert back to old habits, because that's what they like/they are used to, rather than their body decides to do all sorts of wonderful things to make them fat again. If they didn't eat the extra calories they would get fat again, would they?
    It's just a matter of time...

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    There are many different types of fats, not all are considered as satiating or take relatively long to digest.
    Your turn now: citation please. There are indeed different types of fats, but as far as I know there is very little difference when it comes to satiation. It's not like long vs short chain carbohydrates where there is an absolutely massive difference between glucose and long-chain starches or fibre. There are different forms of protein too, but again the differences are pretty small unless you are an elite-level athlete.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    I see nothing that shows a confirmed 'feedback loop' for sugar over and above fats or protein.
    Not even that first article, which is literally about sugar making you hungry? OK.

    There's loads more but I couldn't find a better overview on a quick search and I'm not going to do your homework for you if you choose not to believe this effect exists. Try googling things like "insulin reponse", "insulin resistance", "GI" (glycemic index) and "GL" (glycemic load). There's a reason those two are almost entirely concerned with carbohydrates and sugar in particular. Insulin resistance happens far quicker than people realise. T2 diabetes is just the extreme end-point of that. Ghrelin (the hunger hormone) is also involved (this is covered in that first article).

    I will add one more link I just remembered about, on some of the issues with fructose in particular (the main sweet form of sugar - makes up half of table sugar):

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...etabolism.aspx

    I can't remember if the video talks about the positive feedback loop or not. It's probably mentioned somewhere. He's mainly concerned with the way fructose is metabolised into visceral fat, the worst kind of fat (leads to fatty liver syndrome, increased risk of heart disease, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    The homeostatic point is an interesting one, but possibly more catch 22 - people revert back to old habits, because that's what they like/they are used to, rather than their body decides to do all sorts of wonderful things to make them fat again. If they didn't eat the extra calories they would get fat again, would they?
    No, but but that's not how homeostasis works. If a person is unable to lower their setpoint to match their actual TDEE, they will always feel hungry unless they over-eat. That's quite different to someone who already has a correct setpoint, since they will always feel full when they have eaten enough.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    No, but but that's not how homeostasis works. If a person is unable to lower their setpoint to match their actual TDEE, they will always feel hungry unless they over-eat. That's quite different to someone who already has a correct setpoint, since they will always feel full when they have eaten enough.
    With strict disciplin my appetite has reduced over the past 7 months. To use the popular saying; ´my stomach has shrunk´ to what I now eat. I feel ´full´at half of what I ate last year this time.

    Meanwhile my morning excersize was a complete fiasco.
    We got up before sunrise and went out for a short, 17 kms, high speed, ride only. No water, no spares, just one phone. The idea was to have a light breakfast when still hyper coming back.

    Halfway my son, with phone, sprinted up the steepest, longest climb and ... I had a flat.
    I expected him to wait at the top so walked on.
    No son at the top. He probably pedalled the snot on his glasses to beat me to the bottom.
    Since cycling shoes are not designed for walking, less still longer distance, I took them off. Socks too and walked on barefoot. Not very comfy on the sharp gravel hot climate tarmac with loose split.

    7 kilometers and over an hour later my feet were rather worse for wear, but I had reached the rampard off the road towards the farm.
    NOW the resident female turned up in the car. The one that can not transport the bike of course...

    Did not have much appetite for breakfast, preferred to avoid venting my mood and fixed the flat, so diet wise it was a huge success.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    With strict disciplin my appetite has reduced over the past 7 months. To use the popular saying; ´my stomach has shrunk´ to what I now eat. I feel ´full´at half of what I ate last year this time.
    Good to hear. There isn't much evidence that it's possible to lower your setpoint, or at best it is difficult. It seems to be possible to do it slowly. In my experience, the best thing is to avoid sugar, especially since that's what causes the problem in the first place. You don't really need to cut anything out completely, other than anything ridiculously sugary. After a while, you stop craving those things anyway.

    I find that intermittent fasting and overall calorie restriction helps for readjusting what makes you feel full. It's an essential part of this process to feel truly hungry most of the time. It's hard to stick to that for a long time, but you lose weight and come out the other side with less desire to eat a lot because you are so used to having an empty stomach and really appreciating any food you do have.

    It does then take some discipline not to allow the size or frequency of meals to creep back up though. I suspect that careful calorie monitoring for a period of two years should cause the setpoint to reset itself at that level, as long as you have got to that point without feeling like you are starving yourself throughout (though that may be a necessary intermediate step).

  6. #306
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    Of course the real test for weight loss is on your watch. Just had to have a link taken out of my Daytona and it tightened slightly (was last sized December) 😜

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    I find that intermittent fasting and overall calorie restriction helps for readjusting what makes you feel full.

    That is what I have done over the past 7 months.
    Also intermittent more relaxed ´recovery´. The body does need material and time to build muscles.

    The watches I simply wear more loose. Suits the summer HEAT too.

  8. #308
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    Stepped on the scales after a party weekend and WAAAAAAAHHHHHHH.....
    Danced a LOT, ate very cautiously, drank a lot (non alcoholic) but THIS???
    Lost 2 kilos in 3 days. Oopsie.
    According to the same scales the resident female gained a kilo over the past week. She is not amused. Well; eat less and don´t blame me for having self disciplin.
    Tonight she is having a friend with three hyperactive kids over for a few days. I think I will be out for a leisure ride on the bicycle in the evening and a loooooong one tomorrow morning.

    Any, got to watch this. Have a pile of farm chores to work away because of the weekend off.

  9. #309
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    After a week in France - avoiding all bread and pastries - I somehow lost 3.6 kilos. The cheese and red wine must have slimming properties!!

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimyu View Post
    After a week in France - avoiding all bread and pastries - I somehow lost 3.6 kilos. The cheese and red wine must have slimming properties!!
    It is the extra, different activity and don´t forget the ´night sports´ ;-)

    Also the body seems to use quite a lot of energy, not just water, to keep cool whereas most have less appetite in the heat, so a vacation under the sun can be surprisingly effective for slimming down.

    Right, hamburger time!!!!

  11. #311
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    Result!

    Down to 63.8! Having a drink tonight & a curry, as an experiment, let me see the result. My guess is 65 tomorrow!

    64.8 Not going to fret. 1.5 inches off my waist so far, moobs are smaller and trousers visibly loose. Belt down one notch. A day's indiscretion is OK Still aiming for 63, which will given me bit of margin
    Last edited by 72bpm; 13th August 2017 at 11:46.

  12. #312
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    Just back from a fabulous cruise. Ate three very good meals a day, exercised less, lost weight. I just don't get this......

    Do you think it's water held in the body perhaps? Any idea how to control for this? Or muscle wastage?


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  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by 72bpm View Post
    Down to 63.8! Having a drink tonight & a curry, as an experiment, let me see the result. My guess is 65 tomorrow!
    Day to day fluctuations don't mean anything as they are almost entirely down to differences in water retention. The effects can be the opposite of what you would expect.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    Day to day fluctuations don't mean anything as they are almost entirely down to differences in water retention. The effects can be the opposite of what you would expect.
    Yeah. I suspect mine is water loss. So hard to get reliable metrics for a healthy body and diet


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  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by jeepie View Post
    Just back from a fabulous cruise. Ate three very good meals a day, exercised less, lost weight. I just don't get this......

    Do you think it's water held in the body perhaps? Any idea how to control for this? Or muscle wastage?
    Yes. Just made the same remark before reading your post.

    Best thing is to ignore day-to-day weight and go by trends over periods of weeks/months. It's often recommended to only take a weight measure weekly rather than daily, as it cuts out some of the noise. But that is still vulnerable to getting a misleading figure. I think it's best to measure daily, but ignore the daily values (take a weekly average, or plot on a graph depending on how advanced you want to be about it).

    To differentiate between muscle and fat you need digital scales with bodyfat measurement built in. They aren't prefect, but good enough - again only really for tracking trends over weeks/months as a small change may be measurement error.

    The other thing to do is take a waist measurement. However that won't often change by enough for the difference to be measurable, so maybe do that once a month.

  16. #316
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    Guys try adding ACV Apple Cider Vinegar to your diet twice daily also try reducing carbs or refined sugars that'll help.

    Cheers

    Bry

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    Yes. Just made the same remark before reading your post.

    Best thing is to ignore day-to-day weight and go by trends over periods of weeks/months. It's often recommended to only take a weight measure weekly rather than daily, as it cuts out some of the noise. But that is still vulnerable to getting a misleading figure. I think it's best to measure daily, but ignore the daily values (take a weekly average, or plot on a graph depending on how advanced you want to be about it).

    To differentiate between muscle and fat you need digital scales with bodyfat measurement built in. They aren't prefect, but good enough - again only really for tracking trends over weeks/months as a small change may be measurement error.

    The other thing to do is take a waist measurement. However that won't often change by enough for the difference to be measurable, so maybe do that once a month.
    Thanks Rob for taking the time to reply. You're right that noise and misleading data points make finding a consistent approach and direction challenging. Great to have your advice....thank you!


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    Informative video>>>


  19. #319
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    Having being successful before but struggling now I asked the doctors for help. Referred to a nutritionalist as I'd asked for help about food types. Eat 3 meals and snacks I was told. Eat more but eat les.

    3 visits, 2 weeks I've lost half a stone. No cutting back just eating as explained. Having a portion of almonds a day as 'good' fat as well (good for cholesterol I believe).

    Actually understanding food a bit better has really helped. I still struggle with the high fat/calorie stuff that is good for you though.

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    The other thing to do is take a waist measurement.
    Indeed.
    The waist is also a critical indication of a ´healthy´ weight. As a very rough rule of thumb it should be less than half your height.

    I measure about weekly to keep track of a trend.
    Since new year ´shrunk´ 20 centimeters. Muscle tone has noticeably increased.

    As to the weight, lost track a bit: The cales I was using first went unreliable, than gave up and the new scales are a bit pessimistic. The accurate real weight does not really bother me though, it is about the trend, the development. The weight is going down and even on the new scales I have lost over 20 kilos since I started. Good enough for me.

    Apart from the scales, the centimeter, calipers and al, the real proof of the pudding is a pool party with attractive women
    Again, like with measurement, don´t take the individual responses as a litmuss test, the average though is quite a reliable indication.
    With a bit of a wink but yes, seriously too.

    Meanwhile my physical state has developed such that I can now do a serious! mountain route of 4 hours on the bicycle and recover enough to gp swimming 2 hours later. Rise early next day for a shorter route on the bike and have NO muscle issues.

    I have a neat measurement point coming up this week.
    A gf is returning from 3 weeks holiday in the south of France with two female friends. They have been on an ohlala roller with an assortment of pretty trim younger blokes.
    So; she has not seen me for over three weeks and has a tough benchmark. Now, she loves me so no worries, but she is also brutally honest and ofcourse I prefer a compliment to a ´motivational´ observation
    Fingers crossed.
    With a bit of a wink but yes, seriously too.

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    Day to day fluctuations don't mean anything as they are almost entirely down to differences in water retention. The effects can be the opposite of what you would expect.
    Thanks. Not too upset - don't want to develop an eating disorder aged 45!! I will ensure I don't too caught up in the "getting the wight down" theme.

  22. #322
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    Does anyone know about this particular question?

    Any views on the significance of when one consumes calories during the day?

    Let's say I'm trying to eat 2000 calories per day. Does it make a different if I eat 300 for breakfast, 700 for lunch and 1000 for dinner and the next day eat 1000 for breakfast 700 for lunch and 300 for dinner? Would I have the potential to lose more weight if I took the approach on the second day as I can burn calories off during the day?

    I can't find anything out about this. I personally find it much easier to eat my main meal in the evening when I'm knackered and can enjoy it, but I'm unsure as to whether this affects weight loss potential.

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeepie View Post
    Does anyone know about this particular question?

    Any views on the significance of when one consumes calories during the day?

    Let's say I'm trying to eat 2000 calories per day. Does it make a different if I eat 300 for breakfast, 700 for lunch and 1000 for dinner and the next day eat 1000 for breakfast 700 for lunch and 300 for dinner? Would I have the potential to lose more weight if I took the approach on the second day as I can burn calories off during the day?

    I can't find anything out about this. I personally find it much easier to eat my main meal in the evening when I'm knackered and can enjoy it, but I'm unsure as to whether this affects weight loss potential.
    If you stick to the same amount of calories, it doesn't matter when in the day you have them. But think what happens if you have 2000 calories at breakfast. By mid-aftenoon, you have completely digested those calories and you are going to get hungry at some stage. Spreading out the calories so you don't get too hungry minimises the risk of taking in some extra calories due to extreme hunger.

  24. #324
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    Well up to a point it does have different effect.
    If you start your morning with excersize before breakfast, the body MUST use up reserves.


    I actually LIKE going out for a bike ride before breakfast, after a nice large cup of coffee only.

  25. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Well up to a point it does have different effect.
    If you start your morning with excersize before breakfast, the body MUST use up reserves.
    This is an important point. Exercise will cause your blood sugar to drop. If you eat carbs immediately after exercise (and yes, this can include sugar, about the only time it's a good idea) that will raise your blood sugar and trigger insulin to be released. Normally, insulin is bad (see the video posted by Bry1975 a few posts ago). However, insulin doesn't exclusively cause fat deposition, it also triggers your muscles to take up glucose and turn it into glycogen, if and only if those muscles are already in a partially glycogen depleted state, which is what happens after some vigorous exercise (especially anaerobic exercise, i.e., short-sharp e.g., HIIT or big weights, low reps). This is a good thing, and it's actually necessary if you don't want to destroy your muscle tissue. Exercise in itself is catabolic (breaks down muscle) and you need this release of insulin to trigger a separate anabolic process of rebuilding the muscle tissue over the following 24-48 hours. This is why it can be really hard to build muscle on a ketogenic diet.

    So in general, the point about eating whatever you want whenever you want as long as you stick to your total daily calories is correct. However, if you are doing regular exercise, it's a good idea to think about eating most of the carbs that you plan to eat that day immediately after exercise. As a guide, you want about 100 calories immediately after doing a 30-60 minute workout, which can have a high sugar content (I normally eat a banana). You then want some more complex carbs within the next few hours, as that will mostly go to muscle rather than fat. You don't want to eat loads of carbs first thing in the morning, because the excess will just be metabolised quickly, have nowhere to go, and be stored as fat, leaving you hungry a few hours later.

    Proteins and fats digest a lot more slowly, and don't cause your blood sugar to spike or trigger insulin, so those are better at all times except immediately after intense exercise.

  26. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Well up to a point it does have different effect.
    If you start your morning with excersize before breakfast, the body MUST use up reserves.


    I actually LIKE going out for a bike ride before breakfast, after a nice large cup of coffee only.
    I have heard some people recommend "fasted cardio" likewise I find I do better at the gym if I have had breakfast but I prefer to run before breakfast.

    I think the intensity of the exercise and the duration makes a difference as I will do a solid hour at the gym, but only run for 30 minutes.

    On a basic weight loss equation it is cals consumed vs used per day but I think phasing your eating around your days activities makes sense so you have fueled your body for when it is needed. I can also see the sense in having more carbs in the morning but I would say a balanced diet in line with your cal needs is what matters most.

  27. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by MB2 View Post
    I have heard some people recommend "fasted cardio" likewise I find I do better at the gym if I have had breakfast but I prefer to run before breakfast.

    I think the intensity of the exercise and the duration makes a difference as I will do a solid hour at the gym, but only run for 30 minutes.

    On a basic weight loss equation it is cals consumed vs used per day but I think phasing your eating around your days activities makes sense so you have fueled your body for when it is needed. I can also see the sense in having more carbs in the morning but I would say a balanced diet in line with your cal needs is what matters most.
    Some people need some pre-training carbs but most don't. If you can get away without, that's best, because your body has plenty of glycogen stored in the muscles and liver, which if everything is working normally is available very quickly for exercise (unless you are already fasted or on keto). The other problem with eating first is that any meal will direct blood to the stomach instead of the muscles for a couple of hours. So to avoid that, you basically need to eat/drink pure sugar, which again is best avoided unless its essential for training performance. The optimum is something like a bowl of porridge, about 2 hours before training, but you shouldn't be forcing yourself to eat if the goal is weight loss. If training is difficult, a lower intensity programme (without any extra food) might be a better bet.

    What you do want is carbs after training, but only if the exercise was hard enough to warrant it.

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    This is an important point. Exercise will cause your blood sugar to drop. If you eat carbs immediately after exercise (and yes, this can include sugar, about the only time it's a good idea) that will raise your blood sugar and trigger insulin to be released. Normally, insulin is bad (see the video posted by Bry1975 a few posts ago). However, insulin doesn't exclusively cause fat deposition, it also triggers your muscles to take up glucose and turn it into glycogen, if and only if those muscles are already in a partially glycogen depleted state, which is what happens after some vigorous exercise (especially anaerobic exercise, i.e., short-sharp e.g., HIIT or big weights, low reps). This is a good thing, and it's actually necessary if you don't want to destroy your muscle tissue. Exercise in itself is catabolic (breaks down muscle) and you need this release of insulin to trigger a separate anabolic process of rebuilding the muscle tissue over the following 24-48 hours. This is why it can be really hard to build muscle on a ketogenic diet.

    So in general, the point about eating whatever you want whenever you want as long as you stick to your total daily calories is correct. However, if you are doing regular exercise, it's a good idea to think about eating most of the carbs that you plan to eat that day immediately after exercise. As a guide, you want about 100 calories immediately after doing a 30-60 minute workout, which can have a high sugar content (I normally eat a banana). You then want some more complex carbs within the next few hours, as that will mostly go to muscle rather than fat. You don't want to eat loads of carbs first thing in the morning, because the excess will just be metabolised quickly, have nowhere to go, and be stored as fat, leaving you hungry a few hours later.

    Proteins and fats digest a lot more slowly, and don't cause your blood sugar to spike or trigger insulin, so those are better at all times except immediately after intense exercise.
    Thanks again for the explanation

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    Did some more reading up on your comments Robt and gave the squeeze diet a rest. Not stopped the excersize entirely but did take it easier.
    It has done a power of good for my poor suffering muscles: This morning went out for a tough climbing route and found it a piece of cake. Tackled all a gear higher and was less worn.

    Still want to shed some kilos though, so sorry muscles but the squeeze is back. This time though back off a bit again in two weeks; repeat.

    Keeping up the fast for excersize in the morning, ditto the espressos helping my muscles through the ride.

  30. #330
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    Almost there!

    Quote Originally Posted by 72bpm View Post
    Down to 63.8! Having a drink tonight & a curry, as an experiment, let me see the result. My guess is 65 tomorrow!

    64.8 Not going to fret. 1.5 inches off my waist so far, moobs are smaller and trousers visibly loose. Belt down one notch. A day's indiscretion is OK Still aiming for 63, which will given me bit of margin
    Weight yesterday AM 63.3 Kgs! Nearly there. Thank you all for your help. Must say MyFitnessPal has been very helpful, even had some of the homemade traditional Indian dishes on their calorie charts, I was quite surprised TBH. Some I had to approximate. The community forum on MFP is a helpful resource too. Once I hit 63 will move to maintenance part. IMO this is the difficult bit!.
    Will keep you all updated.

  31. #331
    My small contribution to this interesting thread. I previously tried the 5:2 diet for some months, but I found it too hard to continue all the time. Also MyFitnessPal logging. But it was too tedious to keep inputting data, and not much Japanese food is in there. Then a thin Japanese lady </tautology> in the office mentioned over a pasta lunch that she was on a low carb diet. This seemed incongruous, given the linguine and crusty bread being consumed, but as an avid bread and pasta eater/maker, I was intrigued. In the interests of science, I decided to try it all out. If I was to simplify, and I realise I'm forgoing a fortune here by not writing this into a best-selling diet book, but here you go:

    - Reduce sugar spikes and insulin overload. This is not new. But how, exactly, given everyone has other stuff to do and motivation and discipline are hard?
    - Be reasonable: low carb is not no-carb. If you are at a business dinner, or a friend's house, don't feel the need to doggedly pursue the diet
    - Your body is capable of taking variation, and indeed, monotony is an enemy of success
    - If you are able to make a choice, then do so! Don't eat crisps, beer, white bread, potatoes, cereal, pasta, fizzy drinks... anything loaded with sugar or quick-acting carbs
    - There are alternatives. Whisky highball or bloody mary instead of beer. Low carb pasta made from veg. There are lots of choices if you look
    - Don't think of it as dieting. It's choosing
    - Do some muscle-retaining activity, ideally something as part of your day, like walking or cycling

    Anyway, sounds all a bit pious but I gave it a go. Unlike the 5:2 I don't feel hungry and I'm not mentally or actually counting calories. I still have toast in the morning (one slice not two though, and I make the bread myself) and I still eat pizza with the same bunch of old blokes I always eat pizza with. No food logging. No calorie counting. I eat a lot more vegetables and fruit. I make soups. No cakes or biscuits or fizzy drinks or chips or doughnuts. Bacon is nice

    I measured the results with some Withings scales. I'm lazy so I appreciate that these update the 'phone app with my weight and fat percentage automatically. To avoid losing too much muscle, I cycle a bit (errands and commuting, no lycra for me) and do some press ups each day. My mantra for the latter is "don't think about it". Just do some, in one continuous rep. Don't think. No target. Just until you can do no more. It's easy to put off, but once going, it only takes a short while. I'm up to 40~50 now. The cycling and walking takes care of the legs.

    Here are the results. As previous posters have mentioned, a single weight measurement can be quite misleading. The app shows the data points and the line width the variability, but you can see the trend:



    So far it seems a very low impact way to lose weight. I wish everyone success.

  32. #332
    Just a quick update I have managed to maintain at around 13 stone, it does fluctuate a few pounds but when it does I know how to sort it out and get back on track, I tend to stay on track through the week but switch off at weekends

    My plan is to keep doing this for a while and then perhaps (when I am motivated) try to lose another half a stone

    I am trying to use the cross trainer at the moment but continuously working/decorating, id like to get out on the bike and even start running!! (If you knew me you would understand the !!)

  33. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei View Post
    My small contribution to this interesting thread. I previously tried the 5:2 diet for some months, but I found it too hard to continue all the time. Also MyFitnessPal logging. But it was too tedious to keep inputting data, and not much Japanese food is in there. Then a thin Japanese lady </tautology> in the office mentioned over a pasta lunch that she was on a low carb diet. This seemed incongruous, given the linguine and crusty bread being consumed, but as an avid bread and pasta eater/maker, I was intrigued. In the interests of science, I decided to try it all out. If I was to simplify, and I realise I'm forgoing a fortune here by not writing this into a best-selling diet book, but here you go:

    - Reduce sugar spikes and insulin overload. This is not new. But how, exactly, given everyone has other stuff to do and motivation and discipline are hard?
    - Be reasonable: low carb is not no-carb. If you are at a business dinner, or a friend's house, don't feel the need to doggedly pursue the diet
    - Your body is capable of taking variation, and indeed, monotony is an enemy of success
    - If you are able to make a choice, then do so! Don't eat crisps, beer, white bread, potatoes, cereal, pasta, fizzy drinks... anything loaded with sugar or quick-acting carbs
    - There are alternatives. Whisky highball or bloody mary instead of beer. Low carb pasta made from veg. There are lots of choices if you look
    - Don't think of it as dieting. It's choosing
    - Do some muscle-retaining activity, ideally something as part of your day, like walking or cycling

    Anyway, sounds all a bit pious but I gave it a go. Unlike the 5:2 I don't feel hungry and I'm not mentally or actually counting calories. I still have toast in the morning (one slice not two though, and I make the bread myself) and I still eat pizza with the same bunch of old blokes I always eat pizza with. No food logging. No calorie counting. I eat a lot more vegetables and fruit. I make soups. No cakes or biscuits or fizzy drinks or chips or doughnuts. Bacon is nice

    I measured the results with some Withings scales. I'm lazy so I appreciate that these update the 'phone app with my weight and fat percentage automatically. To avoid losing too much muscle, I cycle a bit (errands and commuting, no lycra for me) and do some press ups each day. My mantra for the latter is "don't think about it". Just do some, in one continuous rep. Don't think. No target. Just until you can do no more. It's easy to put off, but once going, it only takes a short while. I'm up to 40~50 now. The cycling and walking takes care of the legs.

    Here are the results. As previous posters have mentioned, a single weight measurement can be quite misleading. The app shows the data points and the line width the variability, but you can see the trend:



    So far it seems a very low impact way to lose weight. I wish everyone success.
    Good work and glad it is working well for you. The only think I would say is that aerobic activity like walking and cycling is catabolic not anabolic (that is breaks down muscle rather than retaining or building it) - if you can combine the healthy eating plan along with some simple strength training you will more likely maintain muscle mass and see greater fat loss than overall weight loss (low carb diets also frequently had quick initial weight loss through the body holding less water).

  34. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtennisguru View Post
    The only think I would say is that aerobic activity like walking and cycling is catabolic not anabolic (that is breaks down muscle rather than retaining or building it) - if you can combine the healthy eating plan along with some simple strength training you will more likely maintain muscle mass...
    Strength training is also catabolic. It's recovery that is anabolic. Just don't run any marathons and you won't actually be digesting muscle tissue for calories.

  35. #335
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    Bump!

    Hello gents, just reviving this thread to see how everyone is getting on?
    Stuck at 64.0 Kgs Weekend drone and curry didn't help. Want to see the needle go under 63. Then will move on to maintenance phase which is when it will get difficult.

  36. #336
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    My story:

    I am 5'11" and weighed about 95kg roughly 5 years ago. Ate everything and didn't work out at all. Then a workplace perk, a routine comprehensive health assessment, showed my fitness level was shameful. Something I always knew but quantifying it was the kick I needed. This triggered joining a gym and controlling my diet. Lost 10kg in the first 2 months and eventually got to around 78-79kg. I love my food so dieting didn't last much longer and I plateaued at first, then weight started creeping up again. I do understand some of it was increased muscle mass so not all bad. I had realised I was not mentally strong enough to suppress my cravings forever and accepted I would never be skinny again, like I used to be up to my early 20s. At least I was stronger and more active so carried on gymming despite no visible results.

    Earlier this year I moved office location to a different part of the city. Was very unhappy as previous one had a great onsite gym that I was using 3-5 days a week. New one had no gym, just lockers/showers etc. I joined a gym near home instead which I use on weekends only (one day upper body and one day lower body) and go lunchtime running from the office 2-3 days. Not going to the gym during working hours/lunchtime means my sessions aren't rushed, I work out more and think more about what I'm doing rather than just going with the motions. Another change I made was switching from my usual endurance training to strength training mode i.e. same exercises but less reps and more sets & weights. Running outside is also much more efficient in terms of calorie burning compared to treadmill. Especially where I run along and across the river as open space means more wind resistance. Btw my first outdoor run was during storm Doris in February so I knew if I could do it with circa 50mph winds in my face, I would be ok on other days too. This work related change turned out to be a blessing in disguise and I actually started feeling a bit thinner, which prompted a weight check (I had stopped weighing myself as it used to stay pretty static no matter what). I found I had lost a few kilos in 3 months without any diet change. The actual fat loss was more as I had gained muscle, according to a body scan at the gym.

    2 weeks ago I decided to make a simple diet change - not to eat anything sweet after 6pm. Sounds easy but I'm a sweet tooth! Have stuck to it so far and will check in another couple of weeks to see if that's made any difference.

    Recently started using an Apple Watch as an activity tracker and it does prompt me to be more active when I find I may miss my daily goals.
    Last edited by FK77; 18th September 2017 at 00:31.

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by 72bpm View Post
    Hello gents, just reviving this thread to see how everyone is getting on?
    Stuck at 64.0 Kgs Weekend drone and curry didn't help. Want to see the needle go under 63. Then will move on to maintenance phase which is when it will get difficult.
    The scales are still ´stuck´.
    Not the whole story by far though.
    I am doing a lot of excersize and shape shifting.
    Decided to concentrate on weight loss again two weeks ago but it would be at the expense of a very wortwhile track I am currently on. The ladyfriends are way to enthusiastic about the results for that!

    Last week/weekend we had the local Fiestas Patronales and that is very much 8 days of eating and drinking. I was totally saved by circumstances though as the resident femal went off on adventure in Morocco and the c-company who came over for some nights is both a vegetarian and does not drive. Being dedicated driver and having nooo food temptation I have behaved boringly well.

    Still too much fat though imo, say about 10 kilos of the blubber, and I would ideally want to shift half and shed the other half.
    I am now slowly and partially changing my cycling strategy. From daily ball busting snot in the eyes effort I am now fitting in days of longer rides at lower effort level.
    The former actually prevents accessing fat reserves whereas the latter uses them.
    Will try keep that up for some weeks and see what happens. Theoretically I should both shape shift and loose some weight.
    2/10 is my birthday and a bit of a mile marker and the pool party coming up this weekend rather a motivation so having good hopes I will do what I can.

  38. #338
    Glad everyone is still on track. I have had a long break, and now away again for a Euro tour on the motorbikes, but when I get back I'll start a more disciplined approach. All going well though, I've lost over 4kgs from not doing any exercise over the last 2 months ;)
    It's just a matter of time...

  39. #339
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    Earlier this year, I didn't lose very much weight in comparison with most people on this thread, but I did get down to my lowest weight since I was a teenager (145 pounds) Fast walking (5 or 6 miles at a strict 4mph) is the only serious exercise possible for me, so I did lots of that, and gently lowered my carb intake. The pace of weight loss was just about fast enough to be gratifying.

    When I got to this weight, I felt that was far enough for the time being; since then have replaced the missing carbs with a bit more protein, and haven't put any of the weight back on.

    Not exactly a dramatic story, but hopefully a gently encouraging one :)

  40. #340
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    Up .5kg this week


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  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    Earlier this year, I didn't lose very much weight in comparison with most people on this thread, but I did get down to my lowest weight since I was a teenager (145 pounds) Fast walking (5 or 6 miles at a strict 4mph) is the only serious exercise possible for me, so I did lots of that, and gently lowered my carb intake. The pace of weight loss was just about fast enough to be gratifying.

    When I got to this weight, I felt that was far enough for the time being; since then have replaced the missing carbs with a bit more protein, and haven't put any of the weight back on.

    Not exactly a dramatic story, but hopefully a gently encouraging one :)
    Quote Originally Posted by jeepie View Post
    Up .5kg this week


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    Thanks all for replying, This thread was one of the motivations in my losing weight scheme!
    Der Amf, If (when) I hit 62 it will the my lowest in 25 years so I'm looking forward to it, hopefully by the end of September.
    Jeepie, don't fret about 0.5 Kgs, it is half a litre of water! I am surprised how my weight fluctuates. My conclusion so far is losing weight is the easier part keeping it off is more difficult! Mercifully I only had a stone or so to lose so didn't have to struggle much. I do have the odd takeaway and still enjoy a few drinks on and off. I don't call them cheat days I just log those on MFP and move on. As I said before don't want it look like I have an eating disorder aged 45!
    We'll all get there. Keep this post alive
    Last edited by 72bpm; 19th September 2017 at 23:15. Reason: spelling

  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by 72bpm View Post
    Jeepie, don't fret about 0.5 Kgs, it is half a litre of water! I am surprised how my weight fluctuates.
    Quite.
    Hence best not weigh too often and stick to a plan.

    Also give it time so it becomes a new routine, habbit. That makes it more likely that it stáys off.

    According to the app did a 2.500 kCal. cycle ride this morning and it was frfreezing so I must have spent a bit more. Plus two short rides to the village and back on the heavy bike. Planning to keep that up for the next 3 days.
    Still very sunny so when I get back from the ride, recuperate sunbathing to keep the ´cyclist tan´ at bay :-)
    Also a bit of a tan is quite flattering. Rather odd and it is all the same ofcourse but lóóks tighter.

  43. #343
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    Well I managed to lose around 2 1/2 stone before my summer holidays - a 2 week cruise and a week in Vegas and on the positive,I've just about managed to keep it off. On the negative I've not lost anything in at least 3 months, maybe 4.

    Ideally I could do with losing another 1 1/2 stone or so, maybe more.

    Reality has come home to roost now as I'm getting married in December. I'd be fine at this weight but I'd like to look better so come Monday I need to get back in the zone!

  44. #344
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    Really enjoying this thread. Thanks for the support everyone. My next weigh in on Monday.


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  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeepie View Post
    Really enjoying this thread. Thanks for the support everyone. My next weigh in on Monday.


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    At the risk of sounding obsessive I weigh myself everyday. Just to log the daily fluctuations and to see how my body reacts to different foods. E.g. rice at night causes a slight upswing as compared to wheat.
    Have been logging my intake on MFP daily for the last 2.5 months. Quite a useful app Must say.

  46. #346
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    We know weight on its own isn't perfect for measuring fat loss as we gain some muscle too as a result of most exercise. Few months ago when my old, cheap and very basic bathroom scales packed in, I bought digital ones that allow entering users' DoB/age and height to enable BMI calculation. Obviously BMI isn't a great measure either as it doesn't include muscle mass vs. fat distribution. So these new scales have metallic plates which you stand on barefoot and it claims to carry out a body scan and tells you the percentage of water, muscle and fat in addition to BMI and weight. Now we have a Boditrax machine at the gym that does this and a whole lot more (my favourite is metabolic age). While my new scales at home don't show identical results to the much more advanced Boditrax machine at the gym, they are not too far off.

    Does anyone else bother with these metrics or are people mostly interested in weight alone? I'm curious to know because when I recently lost some weight it wasn't a lot but my waist got narrower by 2.5-3 inches which wasn't consistent with the relatively small amount of weight I lost so I must have gained muscle. The Boditrax machine has also shown a significant decline in my metabolic age since April so all of that got me more interested in these things.

  47. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by FK77 View Post
    Does anyone else bother with these metrics or are people mostly interested in weight alone?

    I keep track of various ´metrics´ of only one is the scales and I take that on longer intervals.
    Another is the gears I select cycling up hills and the average speeds I attain. Not one day but as a trend.
    Then there are my clothes, how they (not) fit. Sometimes checked by measuring chest, waist and bum. Lately my bum has been wasting :-)
    Lastly the subjective. What says the gf, what tell the mirror.

    Today when I was looking at thermo cycling clothing, the resident female volunteered that she would love a muscle suit for me. They do have them long sleeved/legs in thermo and she was dead serious. Cant´t see that myself but I do take it as rather a compliment after having reduced well over 20 kilos and lost way more than that in fat. Horrible idea the latter. That is close to three buckets of fat!! YUK!!!!
    We have done several matanzas over the years and still have several 1, 2 and 3 litre jars with purified white pig´s fat. Man, the idea of the pile of jars equalling my fat loss boggles the mind.
    Makes you not take that last slice of pizza you would have lóved to work away.

  48. #348
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    Under 80 kg today. Pleased!


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  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeepie View Post
    Under 80 kg today. Pleased!


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    63.8 in the AM. Despite the weekend drinkies and curry! Going to London for the weekend - work related, will have to be careful. What is the weight you're aiming for jeepie?

  50. #350
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    Early this morning a 550 kCal. bike ride.
    Mid morning went out for a longer, fun ride; 1280 kCal.
    In a moment going to pick up my son from school on the bike; some 500 kCal. again.
    This afternoon will do a nearby errant on foot; some 300 kCal.

    The result of such excersize is motivating: This was Friday last week;




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