Do many here use chrono24 to purchase watches?
I just had my first experience there, was pretty rubbish in terms of the vendor -
I ordered what looked to be a lovely little 1950s Omega Seamaster with cool patina, obviously missing original crown and probably a few other bits going on - but priced accordingly.
I received a 60s Omega Geneve with a bulge on the dial and no where near as much character !
Not sure if they were trying to pull a fast one or what but the Chrono24 support system seems pretty efficient and I expect to get my money back once the seller receives.
Anyone here have similar or happier stories to report?
Sorry to hear about your misfortune & fingers crossed you get your money back quickly. Was the vendor one of the trusted sellers?
I keep browsing Chrono24 but am always Beverly nervous about hitting buy just in case! I understand their trusted sellers status is almost an extra layer of security but I still have my reservations.
Yep they are a trusted seller, from Finland, not sure if they made a genuine mistake and sent the wrong watch from their inventory, but definitely a weird thing to happen and a pain in the backside, so a bit put off using again for a while at least.
The actual website support and middle man piece all seems to be as good as it could be from what I know so far.
Originally Posted by benwoodroffe
What's the name of the company?
To the best of my knowledge, the trusted seller status is available to purchase. I would not regard as meaningful in any way.
I'd like to keep this to myself for now, I give them them the assumption they made a simple mistake.
But "trusted checkout" they say means Chrono24 holds the money for some time - the seller does not actually get their hands on it until the buyer is happy.
So this would appear to guarantee the ability to return the item, and get refunded.
Never used it though, but it seemed like an interesting option.
Also curious what others think.
I know two people who purchased chronographs ranging 1200 -1600 euros from individuals on Chrono24, those were international sales that went really well and they were really happy.
Yes, as long as you trust Chrono24 to be a neutral arbiter then the Trusted Checkout option seems useful. I have no experience of it, though.
Just remember that Trusted Seller is not Trusted Checkout. I would place no value at all in Trusted Seller status, in and of itself.
Actually I checked again, and they say the "trusted checkout" means the money is held in escrow until the buyer receives the watch.
Would be worth looking at the fine print of how this works....
So at the moment I've advised I received the watch and that I want to return straight away as so obviously not what I was expecting.
The seller accepted Return with no issue, so not sure what would happen if they decided to put up a fight.
I've posted via Royal Mail tracked (at my cost, which I'm a bit annoyed at but suppose is the cost for testing the c24 water)
Chrono24 status in trusted checkout is now...
"Shipping information
Delivery service Royal Mail
Dispatched on 30-Dec-2016
As soon as you are certain that the returned item has been successfully delivered, please click the following button. Only then can payment be made to you."
(Button I can seem to be able to hit whenever I want to) "SHIPMENT HAS BEEN DELIVERED"
Not sure if I get my money back as soon as I hit the button. It in going to wait for the tracking to confirm first. Again a concern in case the seller is shady enough to say he received an empty box or something similarly shady...
I paid with PayPal, don't know if C24 have the same arrangement as eBay do with them where PayPal can hold the money before issuing between seller / buyer depending on status of order?
Last edited by benwoodroffe; 2nd January 2017 at 10:06.
Indeed, a Trusted seller seems to be basically somebody who's had a C24 account for sometime,
There's only so much policing they can do from their HQ, as an international service, but does indicate that generally things will go smoothly on the assumption that your transaction will be business as usual for the the seller in question.
The minimum time that a seller must be on Chrono24 to apply for Trusted Seller status is only 6 months with no disputes. After that they can essentially just buy into the status. Information is here: http://www.chrono24.com/info/trusted-seller.htm
Oh yes, I'm not suggesting that it is feasible for Chrono24 to police more than they do as a general thing. They could only go further by becoming more intimately involved in the transaction, which of course is where the Trusted Checkout idea comes into it.
I am only suggesting that Trusted Seller status tells the customer nothing in and of itself about the vendor; it is unwise to pay Trusted Seller status the slightest attention when evaluating the trustworthiness of a vendor on C24. One should instead check out the vendor just as if you'd found them in the Yellow Pages or via Google: Ask for recommendations on forums, look for reviews, check out their location on Google Maps, and so on.
Although seemingly 'bought', Trusted Seller status may mean something if is withdrawn after a disputed sale. I've no idea whether this is the case.
According to C24, maybe:
http://www.chrono24.com/info/trusted-seller.htm
Monitoring
If we receive any reports of disputes or violations of the Trusted Seller Guidelines, Chrono24 Support will contact the dealer to clarify the matter. We take violations of the Trusted Seller Guidelines very seriously. Such violations could lead to the withdrawal of the seal from your account.
Thanks, that is (a small?) something then.
I used them a few weeks ago on a purchase from a small shop in Germany for export to the USA. The photos and description reflected what I received. It went very well, but I also worked directly with the Seller in parallel to using the Chrono24 service. In my case, the only glitch was that the seller did not fully fill out some of the import information needed, but I've dealt with this before and it was no real problem. In general it was a good experience. Sorry your first experience was so poor.
DaveB
Words of wisdom.... bottom line full due diligence is always needed when buying a watch from an unknown seller (and even, I would submit, from a known seller).
Even on Ebay there are plenty of sellers with 100% positive feedback who sell atrocious fakes or vintage watches with bad restorations. Customers are happy because they get cheap watches or watches that look "new" and have no idea they've been "had".
What's the deal with all the Russian sellers on C24? Nearly always the cheapest by far.
awful to hear, but also good to know that it didn't seem too hard to get your money back?
Though Moscow is only 600m from London I still think there is a whole world apart. I have heard that returned items have also disappeared in Russian customs. Are you going to get your money back when their own government can often get up to all manner of tricks? I'd approach with caution. The best remedy is to do Google research on the vendor and check on feedback.
I have taken a risk with a German private seller but it was a very good deal and ended up very well. I took a view that maybe fraud and general misbehaviour is at a lesser level with our Germanic friends and took the plunge (probably very naive on my part) I have also bought from Italian Bricks and Mortar and had no problems.
thanks, hopefully not too much of an issue, i'm still waiting for confirmation of return delivery then i can hit the button and see what happens, will advise what happens at next stage.
indeed, eBay is a nightmare too, but there is efficient returns process for a buyer via eBay via the money back guarantee, regardless of whether or not the sale states "returns accepted" - as you say the problem there is that plenty of shonky stuff gets bought by those unaware and they never trigger the return process.
i think the money back guarantee backing the buyer rather than the seller has probably pushed some of the shadier sellers out from eBay as they realise they're less likely to complete sales, so there'll be a portion of these guys setting up their own sites, using C24 or gumtree or whatever, creating whole other minefield...
I was looking on Gumtree at an array of Subs for £100-200. No expert but bax and papers etc thought it was suspicious.
I also recall seeing a comment about avoiding Italian sellers in C24? Could anyone provide more insight as to why that might be?
Yes, just a tad suspicious. ;-)
I think it's less about Italian sellers and more about the reputation of the Italian postal service. It has gained a reputation for causing things to disappear in both directions, into and out of Italy. This poor reputation has rubbed off onto Italian sellers to an extent.
If you look on eBay enough then you'll see quite a few vendors who specifically exclude Italy as a destination. The risk of disappearing items is just too high in many people's opinions.
The low prices from grey dealers in Italy can also be suspicious but then that's why we like them! ;-) Looking back at reports here from people buying from Italian grey dealers, I think that experiences have been generally good with a few poor experiences. The main issues seemed to be condition not being what was advertised and then the difficulty of returns (not that Italy is unusual in this; it's an issue when buying any from abroad).
Personally I'd buy from an Italian grey dealer as long I had seen good reports about them here and I knew they were going to use a reliable courier.
Last edited by markrlondon; 4th January 2017 at 09:19. Reason: Fixed typo
Exactly that. It's the Italian postal service which is the red flag. Since it's a struggling economy it's quite a good source of keenly discounted watches.
Right, that's the line I'd take.
I have had my fair share of dealings with sellers listed on Chrono24. Good and bad experiences. If shit hits the fan, don't count on Chrono24 bailing you out.
It's a difference story if you use their Trusted Checkout service. They charge 3.5% for that.
Appreciate the explanation. Really helps us new guys understand a few things that are going on.
What does the 3.5% buy you? Does it give you a guarantee of your money back regardless of the outcome? Or do you still assume the same risk ?
http://www.chrono24.co.uk/info/checkout.htm
Thanks, the grey area I find myself in currently is that is if I've received the watch but told C24 it's not the watch I'm expecting and so then instructed to send the watch back - if for whatever reason the unwanted doesn't make it back to the seller, who's the shady blighter in the first place? Would I get my money back?
Fortunately not a massive sum of money I'm concerned with in this case so I'll live if anything goes wrong, but if it was I'd be climbing the walls...
I'm sure that there has been at least one case mentioned on here where a buyer had a dispute open with Chrono24, and yet the seller involved was still showing as being a "Trusted Seller", so I'd place no credence whatsoever in it.
A lot of people don't realise that C24 is just an advertising website, where anybody in the world can advertise a watch for sale, regardless of whether that watch actually exists or not. Whenever I have bought watches that were advertised on C24, I have done my due diligence on the seller of the watch, and regarded C24 as no different to Gumtree, or a "free ads" newspaper, or any other advertising medium.
Give them a call and ask what would happen in this scenario, maybe? I wouldn't have thought you'd be the first person to ask about this scenario.
Indeed.
I bought a brand new Breitling Navitimer World from an Italian dealer, the price was phenomenally good and the watch arrived as advertised within 36 hours of completing the deal. So, I was 100% happy.
I asked for recommendations on here and others had bought from the dealer in question without problems. This gave me the confidence to go ahead, although having never bought from Italy or through C24 before I was bricking it a bit until the watch arrived!
The watch was couriered by DHL, so was not subject to the vagaries of the Italian Postal Service...
Simon
So the return watch was attempted for delivery on Weds, so Ive been waiting since then for the seller to get off his backside and go and collect from the posti since then.
He's now done that and confirmed delivery - not sure what would of happened if he just left it at the posti office and let it be returned to sender (me who didn't want the blasted thing in the first place!) but hey he didn't do cool.
Now waiting for C24 to issue me back my money, so a bit more waiting I guess.
Taking ages though, bit tedious and risky this dealing with Finland business. Think I might just keep it bricks and mortar and uk deals with fellow watch nerd from now on.
+1
I have bought quite a few watches from Chrono24 listed sellers. Maybe 15 or so. Have experienced 4 rather annoying cases where the watch was not as advertised with scratches, dents in glass or the like. When politely confronting the sellers they would not acknowledge the problems at all. In 3 of the 4 cases, the seller asked me to send back the watch for a refund, but would not refund shipping costs. Given that the sellers were Italian and Italy being notorious for shipping issues (when sending to Italy), I did not want to take any chances, so kept the watches and had them fixed locally.
1 case was so bad that I got Chrono24 involved. Or so I thought. Chrono24 admin/mgmt did a very weak job of facilitating the issue. And in the end it got me nowhere, eventhough the seller was 100% in the wrong and I had sent proof of this. In this particular case, Chrono24 continued to list the jackass dealer as a "Trusted Seller" even after the major dispute. I asked Chrono24 to remove the Trusted Seller credentials, but to no avail. Was not very pleased to say the least.
So as others say, regard Chrono24 as nothing more than a free ads newspaper, if you transact directly with the seller. If you use their "Trusted Checkout" service, that should offer you protection as they act as an intermediary with an escrow setup. That said, I have no personal experience with the service and I can hardly say I place much trust in Chrono24 based on previous experience.
Can you name these four dealers, especially the last one?
I don't like the idea of bank transfer, but what if you don't know the seller but they agree to send a PayPal request for payment, describing what you are buying?
In theory that gives them the responsibility to get an item matching the description safely to you. But I have never claimed via PayPal so I have no idea if it works in practice.
It also lets you pay by credit card though. This has a big advantage in that the buyer can't make you return the watch; you only have to tender it for return, and it is their responsibility to arrange it.
If all hinges on proving the watch doesn't match description though...
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I have seen many watches I like on Chrono24, but never bought from there. The odd seller has failed to respond to an email or the like and whatever I was looking for eventually ended up on eBay, which I prefer by far.
i got my money back, hurrah ! well that was indeed a royal pain in the backside.
in summary, for me now, i feel like you're leaving yourself wide open to all sorts of shenanigans dealing with sellers overseas on this kind of platform, and although you can research a seller - they might not be the problem...
so tempting as those bargains from Italy, Spain and Germany may look from the comfort of your own home, tread carefully and if you really do have to pull the trigger, i hope all goes well.
Has anyone had any experience with escrow accounts and how they work/costs with private sellers? I currently looking at a private seller (non trusted) with a great deal on a Squale, but the idea of dealing with escrows is putting me of.
I use Chrono24 only to find the watches in the first place, then I go direct to the seller (and only of course if it's a seller I trust based on research or recommendations). The escrow etc business really puts me off too.
I used a UK escrow service to buy my Speedmaster from a chap in Wales outside of eBay. Works as advertised:
You pay the money to escrow
They advise seller to post the item
You advise that the item has arrived and is as described
They release funds.
It is very much up to you to frame the conditions of the sale carefully though. We agreed to split cost of both escrow and postage/any return and that in the event of ANY dispute by either party the default situation was that I would return the item by special delivery and the money would be returned to me
Thanks,
Out of interest, how much/percentage was the cost of using the escrow?
I used the same service through Chrono24 when I purchased my Breitling SOH. I did my home work and ended up using the trusted checkout route which uses the Escrow approach as described above. I think Chrono24 charge 4 or 5 % for this service but it takes all the stress out of it and makes sure both parties are happy before your hard earned cash disappears into the abyss. Not sure the grey prices are as good as they were a year or two back but I would definitely use that particular service again in the future if something caught my eye.
Exactly my m.o.
What was the name of the escrow service, may I ask?
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