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Thread: What's wrong with people

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    it's the 'want' that becomes the fool's errand.

    R
    and the creation of need/want has become a core element of our culture.

    We are being raised and maintained on a diet of desirable ideals and their next upgrades.
    This makes consumables of everything.

    One other element is the mix of religion and state in the moral of sexclusive monogamy which throws fundamental frustration.
    Sex sells all around us but is the forbidden fruit.
    By jove; looked in a womens' glossy lately???
    Again desire, need, want, frustration with what we do have.

    Small wonder so few people walk about looking happy!

    The negative attitude is a product of or culture. It is all about keeping the people consuming thus needing/wanting.

  2. #52
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    There is a simple paradigm shift to cure that: become the Jones's, i.e. accept that what you already have is all that you need and all that you want.

    For most of us, what we already have is more than enough of what we need: it's the 'want' that becomes the fool's errand.

    R
    You could argue that the "want" is one of things that have driven human development over the centuries.

    Want for food, shelter, freedoms, equality, etc, or even "stuff" is not a bad thing, however it becomes corrosive when it is not earned, is unachievable or people lose hope in ever achieving it.

    Perhaps the problem is not the "wants" themselves, but the expectations associated with getting "wants".

    For example - I "want" a PP, but have zero expectation of getting one - hence it does not phase me. I have much higher expectation of getting a Turkey Dinner on Christmas day and will be rather miffed if its does arrive.
    Last edited by Andyg; 5th December 2016 at 16:57.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  3. #53
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    Reading this thread and then watching "Requiem for the American Dream" on Netflix made for an interesting combination. In Requiem, Noam Chomsky goes through many incidences of how the system is rigged against the normal working person. The erosion of democracy in the US (and it pretty much applies to every other western country, but like most things, it starts there) and how the "little guy" is manipulated and controlled by the few at the top. Consumerism is one major part of this control and like a few others have pointed out in this thread, that leads to borrowing, loans and more control and more misery to allow us to buy stuff we don't need. It's well worth a watch.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    You could argue that the "want" is one of things that have driven human development over the centuries.

    Want for food, shelter, freedoms, equality, etc, or even "stuff" is not a bad thing, however it becomes corrosive when it is not earned, is unachievable or people lose hope in ever achieving it.

    Perhaps the problem is not the "wants" themselves, but the expectations associated with getting "wants".

    For example - I "want" a PP, but have zero expectation of getting one - hence it does not phase me. I have much higher expectation of getting a Turkey Dinner on Christmas day and will be rather miffed if its does arrive.
    Need and want are two different things.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  5. #55
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    Definitely seems to be a lot less empathy around. I always try and see how things would be if the boot was on the other foot before acting.

  6. #56
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    I think that a lot does depend on the environment that you were brought up in because it heavily influences your personal moral code and philosophy. Many people can't even comprehend that there is an alternative to the 'must have' mentality instilled in them from an early age.

    Societies that encourage sharing and caring tend to be a lot more content than those based on greed and selfishness, regardless of GDP (PPP).

    A sense of perspective about what is really important in life also helps, often people discover this too late.

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    People just dont seem to be able to take responsibility now a days, thanks to a decade of nanny state conditioning, it is always someone else's fault,

    there is litter in our street 'where is the council?'

    I cant get a Job, 'wheres my Benefits?'

    you cant say that, its not politically correct, blah blah.

    etc etc.

    once people are once again taught how to respect each other and their local community's, and not expect the government or local council to supply the answers, then this situation will become better.

    until then we need to educate generation snowflake, that we are not all 'one' or have a 'hive mind' and that individualism is the way forward

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Need and want are two different things.

    R
    Totally agreed, but as species we actually "need" very little. Sufficient quantities of air, drinking water, food, shelter and the ability to acquire these things + the ability to reproduce and nurture offspring. I would add friendship and company, but not everyone "needs" this. The rest are wants.

    Perhaps the more impoverished communities around the world are happier simply because they know this.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post

    Perhaps the more impoverished communities around the world are happier simply because they know this.
    Until missionaries, clothes, coca-cola thus electricity, then tv and then they 'need' everything.

  10. #60
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    A lot of folk just never grasp the fact that life isn't a competition.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    A lot of folk just never grasp the fact that life isn't a competition.
    https://youtu.be/U8Kum8OUTuk

    M

  12. #62
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    We´re touching on Maslows hierarchy of needs territory and the modern idea of happiness and fulfillment through consumption when for many hundreds of thousands of years homo sapiens wandered about with a few stones and perhaps a skin or two and probably felt themselves comfortable and cherished by their family or band for their skills and abilities. A Brief History of human history by Noah Yuval Harari is well worth a read if these themes are of interest.

    A bloke called Joseph Brotherton said "My wealth is measured not in the extent of my possessions but the absence of my wants" ..lot of truth in that imo.

    I think there is a danger, exacerbated through technology it seems, that we are becoming human doings and forgetting what it means to be human beings....we may live longer lives and have more stuff but if we´re starting to feel disconnected from each other, angrier and more dissatisfied with our lot then maybe we´ve taken a wrong turn?
    Last edited by Passenger; 5th December 2016 at 19:02.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    We´re touching on Maslows hierarchy of needs territory and the modern idea of happiness and fulfillment through consumption when for many hundreds of thousands of years homo sapiens wandered about with a few stones and perhaps a skin or two and probably felt themselves comfortable and cherished by their family or band for their skills and abilities. A Brief History of human history by Noah Yuval Harari is well worth a read if these themes are of interest.

    A bloke called Joseph Brotherton said "My wealth is measured not in the extent of my possessions but the absence of my wants" ..lot of truth in that imo.

    I think there is a danger, exacerbated through technology it seems, that we are becoming human doings and forgetting what it means to be human beings....we may live longer lives and have more stuff but if we´re starting to feel disconnected from each other, angrier and more dissatisfied with our lot then maybe we´ve taken a wrong turn?
    Well said. I do feel we have lost what it means to be a "human being" and how we connect with each other.

    I tell my teenage boys to be first and foremost happy within themselves and when this is the case everything else will fall into place. Don't believe everything the media tells you, read between the lines, don't worry about things you have no control over, be honest with yourself and your emotions, and don't follow the herd just because people tell you to do so. Fulfilment is more important than money and happiness is a reflection of your own contentment.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveR View Post
    Social media doesn't help many. I think my wife suffers from this one, where she sees what people are sharing on social media and comparing it to her life. But she has the untidy house, piles of washing created by two young boys as well etc. Etc. I try to explain everyone has these issues and people share on Facebook what they want you to see
    My wife and I both ditched Facebook and she is much happier as a result, amazing the hold a simple app can have over someone.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chinnock View Post
    Well said. I do feel we have lost what it means to be a "human being" and how we connect with each other.

    I tell my teenage boys to be first and foremost happy within themselves and when this is the case everything else will fall into place. Don't believe everything the media tells you, read between the lines, don't worry about things you have no control over, be honest with yourself and your emotions, and don't follow the herd just because people tell you to do so. Fulfilment is more important than money and happiness is a reflection of your own contentment.

    Excellent advice.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    There is a simple paradigm shift to cure that: become the Jones's, i.e. accept that what you already have is all that you need and all that you want.

    For most of us, what we already have is more than enough of what we need: it's the 'want' that becomes the fool's errand.

    R
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Excellent advice.
    Great advice.
    Ismaaeel

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    There is a simple paradigm shift to cure that: become the Jones's, i.e. accept that what you already have is all that you need and all that you want.

    For most of us, what we already have is more than enough of what we need: it's the 'want' that becomes the fool's errand.

    R
    Spot on mate, spot on.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  18. #68
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    You need to enjoy your health, your loved ones, genuine friends and health while it lasts. They can be gone in an instant.

    Social media is a scourge on mankind and the sooner it goes, the better.

  19. #69
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    Remember to wear sun screen

    And look after your knees, you'll miss them when they're gone

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundood View Post
    expect the government or local council to supply the answers, then this situation will become better.
    It's an aside to this thread but I wonder where the answers are coming from when automation wipes out whole sectors - we've always had the low-skilled and low pay - every economic system has them so saying "work harder" isn't an actual answer - but what will they do in the near future?

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony-GB View Post
    Social media is a scourge on mankind and the sooner it goes, the better.
    You do know that you're saying this on social media, don't you? ;-)

    Social media has been around a long time. BBSs were first popular in the 1980s, for instance.

    It's the ubiquity of social media that now seems to make a difference. Both social media and humans are still evolving to cope.

    It is possible (but unlikely, as things appear at present) that there will in time be a major rejection of ubiquitous computing and especially the growing trend of robotics and machine learning/intelligence. People love the convenience that these things bring but may come to despise the intrusion and possible anti-humanity of it. It all depends how things develop. There may also, in time, be economic arguments for rejecting robotics and machine learning/intelligence.



    ** edit **

    I hadn't read Alansmithee's post above (#70) when I wrote my message but I now see that we are touching on the same issue. In previous economic and technological revolutions, people have always found new jobs and new economic niches and it has become taken for granted that this will always happen. However, it seems that this time things are fundamentally different. The growth of robotics and machine learning and intelligence means that, as populations rise, the opportunities for humans to do economically productive work in any niche will decrease.

    As yet, there is no economic model that satisfactorily describes how things will work in this work.

    Whilst the owners of robotic/machine-base or machine-made products and services need customers to sell to, to whom will they sell if the people have little ability to accumulate income? Will only the relative rich be buyers? Would that be a large enough economic base? Would that create even more massive resentment (and violence) than is currently seen against the global wealthy?

    Or will entirely new economic models, not based upon conventional economically-valuable production/employment in return for payment be invented and become common? Perhaps the debt-free cash enthusiasts will finally have their day? Can anyone think of and describe such models?

    This video neatly describes the issue: Humans Need Not Apply. Tale the time to watch it. There are various responses saying why it won't happen but none of them are persuasive, in my opinion. I think it will happen (it is happening). The question is therefore how to cope with it in the longer term.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 5th December 2016 at 22:40. Reason: Added edit

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Spot on mate, spot on.
    "Poor people are those who want more and more. Those who never have enough of anything. "
    Jose Musica, the so called 'worlds poorest president'. Lives on a farm, drives a 30 yr old VW beetle and a tractor and gives away 90%of his salary .
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  23. #73
    There's the potential for us (society) to talk itself into a worse state than it's actually in, and that we're in danger of losing sight of the positives. As an observation, just about every post within this thread (if not every post) has agreed with the OP's outlook and has bemoaned this, that or the other. That isn't a criticism, by the way.

    How many of us today had what they would really call a bad day, one that can't be recovered from? I've had a good day, despite it being another day without work after being made redundant earlier this year. I've been into town to run some errands and for some shopping, people held doors open for me as I did them and every assistant at every point of contact came across as sincere and helpful. Someone let me out on a T junction, I found something ideal for my mum for Xmas and I heard that my sister-in-law might be setting up a date for me with one of her friends (I came out of a long term relationship at the same time as being made redundant...) Some of the aforementioned could be considered just being polite, however if you extrapolate that then it goes a long, long way. I'm out for a curry and a few beers with friends this Wed, I have a blind date set up for Friday and I'm out with other friends on Saturday - all of it something to look forward to.

    I don't think society is broken, we just need to recognise and acknowledge the positives rather than fester in negativity.

  24. #74
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post
    I've been into town to run some errands and for some shopping, people held doors open for me as I did them and every assistant at every point of contact came across as sincere and helpful.
    Whereabouts do you live?

    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post
    I don't think society is broken, we just need to recognise and acknowledge the positives rather than fester in negativity.
    But "we" (taken as a whole) don't do this. Why not? Because that's what happens in a broken society (whatever "society" means to all the individuals who make up the population being referred to as a society). ;-)

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    "Poor people are those who want more and more. Those who never have enough of anything. "
    Jose Musica, the so called 'worlds poorest president'. Lives on a farm, drives a 30 yr old VW beetle and a tractor and gives away 90%of his salary .
    He's no longer President of Uruguay, but he most certainly is incredibly humble and an inspiration to many.

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Whereabouts do you live?
    Essex, innit ;-) My point, though you may have already picked up on it, is that there are many acts of decency performed every day, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant. We all experience it, though we're too quick to highlight just the bad stuff.


    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    But "we" (taken as a whole) don't do this. Why not? Because that's what happens in a broken society (whatever "society" means to all the individuals who make up the population being referred to as a society). ;-)
    Don't do what? Look on the bright side or wallow in the dark? We're all in it together, broken society or otherwise.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post
    My point, though you may have already picked up on it, is that there are many acts of decency performed every day, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant. We all experience it, though we're too quick to highlight just the bad stuff.
    I agree. However, I asked about your location because different locales even in one small country like the UK can vary a lot. In my experience in London it's commonly different but, even here, it varies on a micro-scale. In the local shops I go into regularly, people are friendlier because they have some familiarity with each other. But where people are less familiar then they have less 'commitment' to one another.

    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post
    Don't do what? Look on the bright side or wallow in the dark?
    "This" being "recognis[ing] and acknowledg[ing] the positives rather than fester in negativity". My contention was that "we" don't do it (at least not on a large enough scale) precisely because society is broken. I think it is broken because each person's definition of "society" differs and, much more significantly, because population density in some areas is such that it is very difficult to grow a sense of community or familiarity.

    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post
    We're all in it together, broken society or otherwise.
    I'm not sure that this is genuinely true. If there is social and physical mobility (both of which increase in practical terms with wealth) then not everyone is really in it together. Some are more in it than others. (For what it's worth, I am not bemoaning this; I am merely observing that it seems to be the case).

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    "Poor people are those who want more and more. Those who never have enough of anything. "
    Jose Musica, the so called 'worlds poorest president'. Lives on a farm, drives a 30 yr old VW beetle and a tractor and gives away 90%of his salary .
    There is no better joy and humbling experience in life than giving and helping other human beings.
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

  29. #79
    +1 to the above. In addition, one of the most accurate (and wise ) observations on life, love and the human condition has to be "little things make and little things break".

    Not one of mine (although I wish it were); but it seems to encapsulate a line of thought demonstrated in this thread. Small considerate acts can have a positive effect on people out of all proportion to the act itself.

  30. #80
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    I've always said social media is a virus we as a family have never done it, far too many people leading false lives in the hope of trying to impress one another.


    Jealousy is a very important factor to consider, the easiest way to spot it-No comment.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    " As it happens. There is no better joy and humbling experience in life than giving and helping other human beings". Jimmy Saville

    Fixed it for you.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  32. #82
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    This reminded me of a column I read recently. Which I think summed it up quite well. Towards the end she observes this very recent me, me, me aspect of life. My pet peeve is people with no sense of perspective. I sold something at auction recently and as I was out at dinner when it ended I didn't send the invoice until the next morning. 12 hours later.

    In the morning I had a pile of increasingly angry messages from the buyer demanding to know where his invoice was. It was a DVD player. Not life saving surgical equipment. Over the last few years my dad has been battling cancer, my mum died and my brother has had serious health problems. I WISH I had small things to worry about. I would consider myself lucky.


    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/...idget-christie

    As a standup comedian, I have a heightened sense of other people’s behaviour. In a room of 500 people, I can sniff out the one checking their watch, yawning and stretching their arms above their head. There are a myriad ways an audience member can display their apathy towards you. One standup friend, Joe Wilkinson, saw a piece of chewing gum fall out of a man’s open, dribbling mouth while he was doing his best stuff. I’ve had a man in the front row order himself a takeaway.

    I think society is ruder than it used to be, and I’m not alone in thinking this. Paul Piff is an assistant professor in the department of psychology and social behaviour at the University of California. Last year, he wrote a paper titled Higher Social Class Predicts Increased Unethical Behaviour. In layman’s terms, what Prof Piff is saying is, rich people are more likely to behave like twats than poor people are.

    Piff proved his suspicions in a number of ways, many of them involving the use of hidden cameras. One of his experiments, which he shared during an unintentionally hilarious TEDx talk, meant getting some of his mates to stand at pedestrian crossings and monitor which cars stopped and which didn’t. Normal cars (ie ones that look like their sole purpose is to transport people safely from A to B without exploding) stopped – which, incidentally, they were legally obliged to do. “Status cars”, such as 4x4s, convertibles, sports cars, chariots and the Diamond Jubilee State Coach, did not. Piff had proved, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that people who buy expensive cars enjoy killing pedestrians, which definitely qualifies as unethical behaviour.

    Another of Piff’s films showed two young men playing a rigged game of Monopoly. One player was given an unfair advantage: more money, two dice, a crash course in Received Pronunciation, a massive throne to sit on, an ermine cloak and the Sovereign’s Orb. The behaviour of this player changed rapidly. He started playing in an incredibly annoying, obnoxious way.

    The most fascinating part, for me, was that, even though he knew he was at an unfair advantage, the player still believed he had won the game through personal skill. I thought immediately of George Osborne cutting the maintenance grant for Monopoly players from low-income families, and how this meant that working-class kids would now always lose at Monopoly, so won’t even bother trying to play any more.
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    Piff believes that being wealthy can make people less ethical, more selfish and less compassionate. “The rich are way more likely to prioritise their own self-interests above the interests of other people,” he says. “It makes them more likely to exhibit characteristics that we would stereotypically associate with, say, assholes.” Yes, that’s right. There is a professor, called Piff, who used the word asshole in an academic study.

    I’ve encountered a lot of assholes recently. And I have noticed, with alarmingly regularity, that when I call people out for, say, walking into the road in front of my car without looking because they were on their phone, I am verbally abused in return. The man who ordered his takeaway during my show seemed genuinely baffled as to why I even brought it up. He was hungry and needed to eat. What the hell was my problem?

    We are living in an age of narcissistic entitlement, and I don’t think this is purely down to wealth or privilege. Technological advances, easy credit, bad parenting and pizza restaurants’ willingness to stock every conceivable topping has created a world in which everything is possible and available, where there is immediate and unlimited choice – except in the case of the Labour leadership, where our options have been severely limited.

    In a recent documentary about the police, a female officer said she’d noticed a big change in young people’s behaviour, which she put down to bad parenting, a lack of discipline and contempt for authority figures. She said that because we don’t say “no” to our children, and instead use tantrum-averting language (“Well, I’d rather you didn’t punch me in the face repeatedly, darling, because it makes mummy upset”), young people don’t know how to respond to being reprimanded: they go into meltdown.

    We interact with each other less and less. We shop online, communicate online, we watch bands and sunsets through our iPads and don’t care about the people standing behind us. We’re forgetting how to behave in the physical world. I don’t know how we address this. But a good place to start might be to call our children assholes when they’re being assholes. I’d also suggest arresting anyone who orders a takeaway during the punchline of a show.

  33. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Fixed it for you.
    Here's another from Jimmy Saville: " Do as I say and not as I do".

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by forpetesake View Post
    Here's another from Jimmy Saville: " Do as I say and not as I do".
    Hows about that then...?

    M.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveR View Post
    Social media doesn't help many. I think my wife suffers from this one, where she sees what people are sharing on social media and comparing it to her life. But she has the untidy house, piles of washing created by two young boys as well etc. Etc. I try to explain everyone has these issues and people share on Facebook what they want you to see
    So so true.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by VoleBoy View Post
    ...
    In a recent documentary about the police, a female officer said she’d noticed a big change in young people’s behaviour, which she put down to bad parenting, a lack of discipline and contempt for authority figures. She said that because we don’t say “no” to our children, and instead use tantrum-averting language (“Well, I’d rather you didn’t punch me in the face repeatedly, darling, because it makes mummy upset”), young people don’t know how to respond to being reprimanded: they go into meltdown.

    We interact with each other less and less. We shop online, communicate online, we watch bands and sunsets through our iPads and don’t care about the people standing behind us. We’re forgetting how to behave in the physical world. I don’t know how we address this. But a good place to start might be to call our children assholes when they’re being assholes. I’d also suggest arresting anyone who orders a takeaway during the punchline of a show.
    I actually read this out to my wife as it mirrors a recurring conversation my wife and I have. We have a 7 year old son and 9 year old daughter. We are somewhat old fashioned in that we say "no" to our kids, tantrums are met with punishment and if they are being assholes, we certainly tell them.
    Unfortunately numerous of their little darling friends seem to live in a parallel universe where they have ultimate power and everything they want is theirs. Everyone they meet is there to serve them. We've caused a few upsets by actually daring to say "no" and god forbid, to actually discipline these kids on occasion. One particularly egocentric little 7 year chap demanded that I let him play on my sons XBox when he was on a playdate at ours a few weeks back. I said no as my son had used up his 30 minute screen time allowance. This little lad proceeded to argue with me, loudly, stating that I can't stop him as he doesn't have a screen time allowance at our house. He then stomped over and switched on the XBox! I was not having that so I marched him to the door by his ear and told him to go home. His mum, who frankly is to blame for her little prince's ego, had a word with me a few days later and said her son was "ever so upset" and "don't you think you were a bit rough on him?". I explained that if any kid marches into my house and behaves so rudely they will receive the same treatment. She said "yes but he's only seven". I replied "exactly, what on earth will he be like when he's a teenager if he has so little respect already?" and left it at that. She was a bit mortified and he's not been around since.
    My wife takes a similar stance. She forces kids who are around on play dates to eat their dinner even if they say they don't like it. Same treatment as ours get. It's a real shock to some of them. Too many parents seem to let their kids do exactly what they want.

  37. #87
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PipPip View Post
    I actually read this out to my wife as it mirrors a recurring conversation my wife and I have. We have a 7 year old son and 9 year old daughter. We are somewhat old fashioned in that we say "no" to our kids, tantrums are met with punishment and if they are being assholes, we certainly tell them.
    Unfortunately numerous of their little darling friends seem to live in a parallel universe where they have ultimate power and everything they want is theirs. Everyone they meet is there to serve them. We've caused a few upsets by actually daring to say "no" and god forbid, to actually discipline these kids on occasion. One particularly egocentric little 7 year chap demanded that I let him play on my sons XBox when he was on a playdate at ours a few weeks back. I said no as my son had used up his 30 minute screen time allowance. This little lad proceeded to argue with me, loudly, stating that I can't stop him as he doesn't have a screen time allowance at our house. He then stomped over and switched on the XBox! I was not having that so I marched him to the door by his ear and told him to go home. His mum, who frankly is to blame for her little prince's ego, had a word with me a few days later and said her son was "ever so upset" and "don't you think you were a bit rough on him?". I explained that if any kid marches into my house and behaves so rudely they will receive the same treatment. She said "yes but he's only seven". I replied "exactly, what on earth will he be like when he's a teenager if he has so little respect already?" and left it at that. She was a bit mortified and he's not been around since.
    My wife takes a similar stance. She forces kids who are around on play dates to eat their dinner even if they say they don't like it. Same treatment as ours get. It's a real shock to some of them. Too many parents seem to let their kids do exactly what they want.
    With some exceptions the children are a mirror of the parents (and grandparents).

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  38. #88
    "I marched him to the door by his ear" Haven't heard that expression for many a year. ;-) Perhaps a return to vogue of the usage wouldn't be a bad idea (but unlikely).

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEZELBOY View Post
    Generally,
    Society concentrates too much on individual rights,
    Not enough on personal responsibilities.

    Andy
    Quite... a lot of this thread can be summarised in this point...

    Very interesting thread with some well observed points...

  40. #90
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    vole boy, great post...

    Too much rights over responsibilities, spot on BB.
    Last edited by Passenger; 6th December 2016 at 18:58.

  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by VoleBoy View Post
    I think society is ruder than it used to be, and I’m not alone in thinking this. Paul Piff is an assistant professor in the department of psychology and social behaviour at the University of California. Last year, he wrote a paper titled Higher Social Class Predicts Increased Unethical Behaviour. In layman’s terms, what Prof Piff is saying is, rich people are more likely to behave like twats than poor people are.

    Piff proved his suspicions in a number of ways, many of them involving the use of hidden cameras. One of his experiments, which he shared during an unintentionally hilarious TEDx talk, meant getting some of his mates to stand at pedestrian crossings and monitor which cars stopped and which didn’t. Normal cars (ie ones that look like their sole purpose is to transport people safely from A to B without exploding) stopped – which, incidentally, they were legally obliged to do. “Status cars”, such as 4x4s, convertibles, sports cars, chariots and the Diamond Jubilee State Coach, did not. Piff had proved, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that people who buy expensive cars enjoy killing pedestrians, which definitely qualifies as unethical behaviour.

    Another of Piff’s films showed two young men playing a rigged game of Monopoly. One player was given an unfair advantage: more money, two dice, a crash course in Received Pronunciation, a massive throne to sit on, an ermine cloak and the Sovereign’s Orb. The behaviour of this player changed rapidly. He started playing in an incredibly annoying, obnoxious way.

    The most fascinating part, for me, was that, even though he knew he was at an unfair advantage, the player still believed he had won the game through personal skill. I thought immediately of George Osborne cutting the maintenance grant for Monopoly players from low-income families, and how this meant that working-class kids would now always lose at Monopoly, so won’t even bother trying to play any more.
    The two examples of Piff's work are actually shown in one video, that of him presenting to TED-x.

    A slow start for the first few minutes, but then very interesting and revealing.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_piff_d...an?language=en

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by kungfugerbil View Post
    I think most commentators problems could be solved by moving out of London. It's a weird bubble whereby those within work harder and harder to stay afloat and afford 'the house' and send the kids to 'the school' and wear 'the coat'... Materialism is covered above, but throw in city life and it's an incredibly damaging spiral and feedback loop.

    I'm becoming more of a hippy in my old age I think.
    Agree, London is just seriously depressing. I for one have to take the train/tube and its just DEPRESSING. And people are on such short temper and stressed in the tube its unbelieveable. Sometimes you reach work or home just stressed for being inside that can of negativity. Really wanna move out....

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix View Post
    Agree, London is just seriously depressing. I for one have to take the train/tube and its just DEPRESSING. And people are on such short temper and stressed in the tube its unbelieveable. Sometimes you reach work or home just stressed for being inside that can of negativity. Really wanna move out....
    Great thread really enjoying some of the posts. My old dad used to describe the above behaviour as ‘rats in a barrel’ eventually rats will kill each other until only the strongest survive.Ranulph Fiennes has studied this behaviour when human beings are put under pressure or in a stressful environments, human beings are no different to the rats they will eventually eat each other!I think population explosion will eventually be the end of society, maybe a little like the ‘Saviours’ in Walking Dead.Life will/is become cheap.The values that us born in the forties/fifties in post war Britain are no longer relevant. I had posters of Kitchener & Churchill on my bedroom wall until I was 13!
    I visited Blenheim Palace at the weekend and wondered in the 1st Duke of Marlborough’s ethics, was he a monster or a patriot?His disposal of the Monmouth rebellion was severe and ruthless, just look up the ‘Bloody Assizes’.
    As a society we lack leaders, in the past we have benefited from great leadership…now we are led by lawyers, spineless academic's that none of us revere. In a nuts shell I think we have lost who we are, we are a mash up of cultures, religions, a broken society.We pay (to see) footballers who earn in a week what it takes us 5 years to earn, we look up to media people like Chris Evans who preaches philanthropy from his ivory tower.
    It’s no wonder there is little love for our fellow man, technology feeds us with constant greed.
    George Harrison called it ‘Living in the material world’


    For me I prefer the basics of life singing in a choir, playing chess or walking in a field hitting a golf ball!

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    The two examples of Piff's work are actually shown in one video, that of him presenting to TED-x.

    A slow start for the first few minutes, but then very interesting and revealing.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_piff_d...an?language=en

    R
    Just observe one morning's school run.
    The mum's in the SUVs behave by far the most anti-social. It is a combo of the perceptions of entitlement and invulnerability.
    This creates resentment and all sorts of negative feelings among the rest.
    BOTH groups badger their husbands. The one because they have the RIGHT to be upkept, the other because they are aspiring same and not appreciating what they do have.
    ....and none smile.
    Last edited by Huertecilla; 7th December 2016 at 11:42.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Just observe one morning's school run.
    The mum's in the SUVs behave by far the most anti-social. It is a combo of the perceptions of entitlement and invulnerability.
    Yup, there's that mobile phoning, foul mouthed, self righteous, gum chewing "it's me right" harpie again - living not far from a school I see a lot of them.

    Society today seems to have a whiff of the 18th century about it what with the south sea bubble, mass migrations, massive increases in technology(relative), self serving bureaucrats, overpaid public sector, 24 hour drinking houses and, oh yes, the enlightenment - be interested to see where it goes toward the end of the century.

    Roll on 2089 some would say

    :-)


    B
    Last edited by Brian; 7th December 2016 at 11:54.

  46. #96
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    I find this thread really interesting.
    I agree with seiko Dave that the more people have, the more they want, the higher the anxiety and as a knock on effect - the more dissatisfaction.
    I think social media only affects people if they already have the kind of personality that would allow them to be drawn into competitiveness.

    I'm also beginning to think that unless you have extreme wealth that enables you to live every day without regard, money is an absolute trap to humanity.
    If you don't have any - you can't afford to do anything.
    If you have enough - you don't really dare to do anything for fear of depleting "enough"
    If you have more than enough - you're still fixed into the maintenance pattern of keeping more than enough, you spend your time working out ways to increase it, invest it, nurture it, and as a result of all of the above - you're trapped in an unfulfilled cycle of creating wealth.

    My envy has never been for the people who have bigger houses, better cars, nicer trinkets etc. It's always been for the people who have had the freedom to shed that mindset and gone to see all the corners of the world instead without panicking about how they'll get back on the wheel when they return.

    The rest of it - youth of today, dog poo, other people's kids, train disruption, politics, markets, pateks, it's all just white noise. IMO.

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix View Post
    Agree, London is just seriously depressing. I for one have to take the train/tube and its just DEPRESSING. And people are on such short temper and stressed in the tube its unbelieveable. Sometimes you reach work or home just stressed for being inside that can of negativity. Really wanna move out....
    There was an infographic thing in Time Out ( survey of London and of other major cities ), that I saw the other day - it reckoned the happiest commuters were those who cycled... It seems if you're not killed you will have a nicer commute :)

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by bry nylon View Post
    There was an infographic thing in Time Out ( survey of London and of other major cities ), that I saw the other day - it reckoned the happiest commuters were those who cycled... It seems if you're not killed you will have a nicer commute :)
    Yeah i cycle sometimes but then i get abused by other cyclists let alone the danger of poorly maintained london roads full of potholes....(starting to sound like one of moaners haha).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  49. #99
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    This is a very good question with, I think, a very complex answer that comprises a multitude of factors.

    Firstly I am not sure people are "more miserable" now. Life a hundred years ago was very hard, with real grinding poverty, poor health, and short and often pain-filled lives. How "happy" could a mother and father be seeing their third or fourth child die from diseases easily cured today?

    We might thing they were conditioned to it, but I once read a dairy of a victorian woman living a lower middle class life in a a Northern town - her despair and grief at the loss of yet another child has stayed with me ever since.

    I do think though, that modern life is happening at an increasingly frenetic pace - there is little "down time", and we have used technology not to make our lives easier, but to make them more complex. Communication, and over communication is a big factor here - we are literally deluged in a constant and unrelenting tide of information, and it does cause stress, whether at work, or at home, or on holiday. There literally is no escape from it.

    Think about the speed at which things happened twenty or thrity years ago, the pace at which a company or organisation moved... a discussion or communication that would have taken several days now happens in minutes. As I write this I have had more than two hundred emails today already - many of which require a response or decision from me, or a communication with staff or my senior team. People (and I include myself in this) don't expect to wait a day or two for a response, they expect it in hours or less.

    Everything, and I mean everything, happens at breakneck speed. For some, it is a huge struggle to keep up.

    I am also convinced that while social media has many potential benefits, the negatives are vast and only now starting to become apparent. Ours is the last generation that did not grwo up with this phenonmenon that has genuinely transformed human interaction and communication beyond any predictions. I stuggle with it enormously, and have chosen not to engage with most of it, but I don't think that is a viable option for my children. How the next generation relates to each other is going to be defined in cyberspace, not down the Youth Club or at the local disco...
    So clever my foot fell off.

  50. #100
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    ^^^
    Excellent post.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

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