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It isn't just about getting UP the hills, it is more importantly having steering/braking control when going DOWN the hills...Originally Posted by PipPip
Quite sensibly nothing is moving in our Dorset village this morning, the roads are all shining like lakes with the ice on them.
The question is have standard tyres got more pathetic in the last 20 years? I wouldn’t dream of moving the car today but years ago we used to venture out on standard tyres, no problem.
It isn't just about getting UP the hills, it is more importantly having steering/braking control when going DOWN the hills...
They have got better, but they also got much wider...
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
There has also been a lot of pressure to reduce rolling resistance and improve fuel economy and tyre longevity. This has lead to harder wearing compounds which don't react well to low temperatures. Part of the winter tyre advantage is that the rubber stays pliable at sub zero temps. Modern tyres shift water better and hang on well but summers don't play nicely with frost, ice or snow. Or just plain cold.
Indeed. I can understand the reluctance from those who only understand winter tyres to be snow tyres. It’s just plain wrong, just like believing that any driver skill set can compensate for lack of grip: it may help getting you to start, but you’ll be f***ed when you want to stop. A bit like pretending you can walk on ice with slick leather shoes just because you’re a good walker.
There are those who bulk at the cost: there again, whilst the initial outlay is not unsubstantial, the cost is negligible after 4 years as your only using each set half of the year, and steel rims are really cheap.
Finally there are those who do not want the hassle of 2 sets of wheels. Cross Climate + are perfect for them, if they exist in their size.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Those are very good points.
My son has a little Hyundai with narrow (by today's standards) tyres and his car is the easiest to get around in at the moment.
When I was his sort of age, I'd take my Triumph Dolomite out when it was snowy and hooning around on the disused airfields in the New Forest, but it had 155 tyres!
The wife's just gone shopping, but everyone else is at home today - Not too icy, but definitely snowy still here.
M
I was reading Cross Climates didn't do too well in numerous tests, (were in reality neither here nor there) and the argument for/against winter rubber is akin to being asked pay extra for ABS - ''never need it''
The CC + is improved over the CC but you are correct, they are a compromise. Really well suited for traditional UK weather, but not a match for winter tyres in extreme conditions.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
The cost is really limited to the wheels as when your winter tyres are on your others are not wearing. It's really just money tied up.
We have spare wheels and a set of winter tyres for both cars. Living down shaded, muddy lanes they go on in November and come off at Easter and you really feel the benefit, especially braking on wet and muddy surfaces.
I think that tyres 20-30 years ago were more like all season tyres, therefore you could drive better in winter than on regular summer tyres today.
I had a Rover 220GSi back in 1994 - I decided not to pay the extra for ABS (I think it was £1,500 or more on a £14,000 car).I was reading Cross Climates didn't do too well in numerous tests, (were in reality neither here nor there) and the argument for/against winter rubber is akin to being asked pay extra for ABS - ''never need it''
I suspect if you offered the choice, at a similar percentage of the cost, many people wouldn't take it today - I can think of a handful of times where ABS has definitely helped me since getting a car with it (in 1998), but I can't definitively say it's actually saved any accidents.
I'm not advocating for the removal of ABS (although cars without tend to have nicer feeling brakes - great on a trackday Caterham or a classic carefully used on dry roads), simply saying that if you offer people an OPTION of safety features, many will opt to save money.
Safety is a difficult thing to sell people, because the reality is MOST people will go years (maybe forever) without reaping the benefits - and even if they do, they may not be aware of it.
Touch wood - I've never had a serious enough accident to say that seatbelts have saved me from serious injury, but most people accept they do.
However, if they were optional, how many people would be prepared to pay extra for them?
Winter tyres are marginal in areas where much of the UK population live (Let's not get into that discussion again), but they're still quite expensive (moreso if you're PCHing or leasing a car over 2 years, as you will have two sets of semi-worn tyres, so you're not really spreading the cost as some suggest - It needs you to wear out a complete set of each to achieve that) and having grip that you wouldn't with non-winter tyres on a damp road is probably hard to recognise (Oh, I didn't have an accident going around that bend where the grip felt fine! No-one's going to say that), so until they're made mandatory (or maybe insurers offer significant premium discounts for fitting them), they'll remain a minority choice.
The current snow is making people think about them, because they REALLY come into their in conditions like this.
M
Last edited by snowman; 2nd March 2018 at 10:49.
Depends on mileage. I've had to replace tyres with plenty of tread remaining due to crazing.
I used to pay our garage €30 twice a year and, for that, he'd change the tyres and store the other set for the year.
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
Yes.
Blame noise reduction and fuel efficiency.
Ok thanks I think the general sense is that yes they have, which kind of explains why we seemed to be able to move about a lot easier years ago compared to today. Also noted that tyres have in general got wider. I'm taking a good look at CC+ next time around which will probably be November.
That seems rather unlikely.
Tyres today stick like glue on dry tarmac, compared to those of 20 years ago.
I suspect it's more down to the superwide, square profile tyres, with relatively closed tread, fitted to even the most unsporting of cars today.
They're grippy in the dry (and probably relatively so in the wet compared to yesteryear), but don't really suit snow or even standing water as well as the higher profile, narrower tyres of the past.
I assume (as you mention Euros) that that's in Germany? UK garages aren't geared up to store lots of spare wheels and tyres - Anyone had any experience of this in the SE of the UK? I can't see it only costing you £50 here...
M
More specialised today, much better on warm dry and wet roads.
But I’ve used winter tyres for as long as I can remember, and that’s close to 40 years
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
In summer, regular tyres have become much better indeed. But the rubber gets hard as a brick around freezing temperatures.
Regular tyre testing by ADAC and other organisations found that summer tyres have become much more specialised than 30 years ago.
Maybe, but it's been confirmed in testing several times over the years. Tyres have become less all-round (except for all weather tyres obviously).
Here's an explanation (in German, so that's probably Google Translate to the rescue ;-) ): https://blog.reifen-vor-ort.de/winte...-der-vergleich
Yep, that was my point really - Tyres are becoming more specialised (even some near slicks on some!).
M
Similar thing, my daughters Fiesta Zetec with winter tyres will tackle just about anything safely in the winter. My car of choice in the snow
Yes, it's in Berlin and the garage isn't in a particularly fashionable part of town. It's a useful opportunity for the chap in question to turn his extra, empty shed out the back into a minor new business stream. He obviously has enough business to make it worth his while; it would probably work in the UK if a) somebody thought of it and b) could find enough punters with winter tyres to make it worth the effort.
Last edited by Carlton-Browne; 2nd March 2018 at 13:48.
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
You only need an area that is 3ft x 3ft x 4ft high to store them. I use the corner of a garden shed and just make sure it has a padlock to deter theft. Doesn't have to be heated or anything as long as on alloys rather than steel wheels
I employ the same storage method, but would happily pay someone else 30 notes to save the fag of changing over, one corner at a time.
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I'm a winter tyre convert since living and working in Germany. Our local tyre garage offers exactly this service of storage of seasonal tyres, around £70 to change the tyres over in October/March and no space issues in my garage.
'Tyre hotels' I think they are called.
ATS (in UK) change and store my tyres for me i think i pay around £5 a month for this.
Sounds pretty reasonable! On a par with Germany, more or less.
M
I've said before, I use winter tyres all year round. For high speed long journey load lugging in summer to getting through fairly detp snow in winter.
This pic, from yesterday shows the body resting on snow and the car happy to drive through it all...
Hmm, having just had to dodge into a field to avoid a Transit sliding uncontrollably down the hill backwards towards me on a single track, I couldn't agree more! I've also just watched a small hatchback of some sort trying for about 45 minutes to get up the slight incline on the single track outside my house. Eventually abandoned, causing a hazard to everyone and mostly blocking the road. By the time I went out to help (couldn't get out earlier due to a conference call) they's buggered off! It would be so bad if the road wasn't a dead end, who know's why they were there?
- - - Updated - - -
Any details on that? Porsche charge me £250 a year! And that doesn't include changing them over!
I'm a winter tyre convert and use Continental wintercontact on both our Skoda Fabias. They have been worth their weight in gold these last few days.
I understand people's reluctance to change/store tyres/wheels twice a year though and after using them myself on our last car, have recommended Michelin Crossclimates to friends. They are a compromise but far better then summers in all winter conditions.
From reviews I've read I'd like to try Goodyear Vector 4seasons gen-2. They appear to offer better snow performance than the Crossclimates but aren't as good in dry conditions.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accesso...-2-tyre-review
What about the noise and harshness, much as I love my winter tyres they are definitely noisier and detract from the ride a little.
Never bothered me. The roads are crap and there's wind noise so I'm happy to sacrifice a little for the practicality of never getting stuck on journeys to the Highlands.
So it's boo sucks to the 'Winter Tyre Deniers' now
Not long got back from a trip out to the local chippy despite all the weather warnings, cars everywhere tip-toeing about, with the winter tyres on it was not an issue, even overtook an X3 BMW 4x4 on the way Home who was doing 12mph and struggling, he must have thought I was an imbecile in my Honda Civic estate, but I was steady as a rock. The winter tyres make enormous differences in snow, traction, lateral grip and braking are amazingly good compared to summer tyres. Even in yesterday’s drifts the only limiting factor was ground clearance.
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The only down side to having winter tyres is that I end up ferrying colleagues to work.
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That bus driver's become quite famous since that clip went viral.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-4325...-avoided-crash
I just don't see that the expense is worth it given the tiny amount of winter weather that we experience in the UK. This year was the only year that I was actually concerned about driving since about 2011. A set of chains in the boot would make more sense.
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A set of chains would make more sense than you posting on most threads all night.
A rush for SC, perchance?
That's a bit harsh. I have been a member for years.
My Mrs went to bed and left me unsupervised with a smart phone and a bottle of wine. What do you think would happen?
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Youporn
Good suggestion. Bit short on tissues though.
Which would you go for in order of preference, pornhub or youporn?
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Last edited by bingobadgo; 3rd March 2018 at 02:27.
Yourebanned
Ta.
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I keep mine stacked up in the corner of the shed too. I used to change them myself but my trolley jack died 2 years ago so I decided to try the local garage. Having found that they charge me only £5 per corner I simply can’t be bothered to buy a new jack and go back to doing it myself. Volvo wheels are heavy anyway and got to watch my back!
Managed to get home from Heathrow last night but I have to say I am so grateful I have winter tyres. I live about 10 miles into the country along largely country lanes and they were messy, one slight lack of control going around a really tight corner but otherwise no drama at all!
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My last 2 vehicles, evoque and disco sport, have each come with Pirelli scorpion verde all season tyres. They have been amazing this last week, along with the "snow" special program, which tames the twist a little.
For summer I do bolt on my 22 inch pimp alloys
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This thread has given me food for thought. Having moved to North Norfolk 2 years ago we bought a Volvo XC60 D5 awd as we thought we’d need a 4x4 in the sticks, and a fiesta economist as a cheap runaround. I have come to the conclusion I don’t really like or need an SUV - huge turning circle, nice inside but smaller than a people carrier and quite juicy. When I change the car I’ll dump the SUV, get a decent hot hatch and buy a set of winter tyres - no more Chelsea tractor on my drive and probably work out cheaper
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That’s ecoboost not economist!!
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Welcome to enlightenment!This thread has given me food for thought. Having moved to North Norfolk 2 years ago we bought a Volvo XC60 D5 awd as we thought we’d need a 4x4 in the sticks, and a fiesta economist as a cheap runaround. I have come to the conclusion I don’t really like or need an SUV - huge turning circle, nice inside but smaller than a people carrier and quite juicy. When I change the car I’ll dump the SUV, get a decent hot hatch and buy a set of winter tyres - no more Chelsea tractor on my drive and probably work out cheaper
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