Reply With QuoteI honestly feel sorry for you. I hope whatever is going wrong in your life is fixed and things get better.Originally Posted by DB9yeti
Libellous in what way Paul?
GrandS is a troll and a liar. Frequently.
Did you read his first post? And still you apologise for him?
I honestly feel sorry for you. I hope whatever is going wrong in your life is fixed and things get better.
Your number 6 is my number 1.
Unfortunately, I can't even tick that box.
What has he lied about?
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
You buying a Rolex on credit is now top of my Christmas wish list.
Thank you for all the replies everyone. I must admit I had a few beers when I posted this question, it almost felt like being in a Rolex talk thread rather than watch talk.
I might get a Rolex one day, but I have no rush to get there. I am happy with my lot in life and I enjoy swapping between my various watches, they all get worn throughout the month.
My main point, although it never really came across I suppose, is the fact I like looking at collections with "normal" price tags! I like to see how people mix n match different straps/bracelets, modded stuff and micro brands. Not many people post up their SOTC unless it has multiple Swiss content from what I have seen (although it has only been a short time on here) but they are still a treat to see.
I just find myself looking at most high end pieces and, please excuse me here, one model will look exactly the same as another. I suppose there is no room for swapping hardware around as quality of replacement items would be an issue.
I will go and hide now until the dust has settled!
I disagree, I's say the higher-end SOTCs are few and far between, as one might expect.
Plenty of very varied collections, all are interesting in different ways and I often see watches I have never heard of.
Wishing death upon our poor beleaguered troll? Shame on you.
I do hope Paul will be along to apologise for him this morning..?
Encouraged by your admirable example, and then dared to by Velo, I posted a mini-collection "sans suisses" as well:
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...iko-Collection
Maybe more of us will do the same if we can keep the ball rolling.
You are allowing him to suck you in ....
Aaah, I like that.
*sigh*
You're dead right. Thank you.
It's not a question of apologising for him.
I agree that he's provocative and makes contentious statements in order to get a reaction; in modern parlance that's called trolling and it happens to some extent on all forums. However, despite the contentious nature of his opening contribution to this thread, he's subsequently made some positive comments that are hard to disagree with. On that basis he's made more of a contribution to this thread than some of his critics.
Love him or loathe him, he's here to stay. Attempts to bully him off the forum have failed and will continue to fail, I thought you'd realised that . Denigrading his professional integrity and competence simply because you don't like him is unjustified; OK, you don't like him and you enjoy stirring up the mob, but ill-founded statements like those do you no credit. Stuff like this just drags the forum down, far better if folks could keep the personal shit out of it.
Just accept he's part of the furniture on TZ and let folks form their own opinions on what he posts; I'm as willing as anyone to challenge the content of a comment if I disagree but I draw the line at using that as a basis for character defamation.
Paul
I work in a pretty decent and well paid job and started collecting about 13 years ago. It began with a Breitling Aerospace with UTC that I bought after working 60 hour weeks for nearly a year. I had desires on that watch for years and to finally own it was a pleasure. I still have it and love it as much today.
Then in 2006, I finally kicked a 60-80 cigarette a day habit. I decided that I wanted to buy a new watch and began saving my "smoking" money. Bought a Speedmaster Day Date.
I have continued in that vein since and now have 13 watches in my collection with a Submariner awaiting collection for Christmas and a Timeless Luxury Nomos Limited Edition on order.
I also have a collection bucket that receives €2 coins whenever I have them. Will be cracking that open to help pay for the Nomos.
At current Irish prices, if I was still smoking, I would burn €10k per annum approx. The Sub cost €6300 with discount from AD. That money is better on my wrist then in my lungs.
It makes no difference how much you spend on watches once you enjoy the hobby and take pleasure from what's on your wrist. Whether it cost €50 or €50k, it makes no difference to anyone bar you. Enjoy your collection and keep active on the watch forums. There are great people online to help and advise you and ignore the odd plank that is looking for attention.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I find having no kids and no car has left plenty of money for watches.
They are just lies Paul, as evidenced by his opening statements and numerous other contributions to the forum. He is a twisted little man.
As the poster above remarked to me, 'he is luring you in'. He got us both. Just as his bile is designed to wind some up, so his 'positive' lies are there to suck others in; I'm sure he giggled to himself as he wrote point 6. It was perfect trolling until that point, just a push too far.
It's all just manipulation.
Ok, I have pondered this since I joined this forum. Why do I feel intimidated posting my watch collection?
It's because I don't own a Rolex, Patek, Jaeger, Omega, and who knows what other uber expensive brands that are out there. I stick with the usual Japanese/Chinese fayre, which I can just about manage. Almost every SOTC is based on out of reach (for me) hardware!
I have in my opinion a well paid job, over £30k. Take out mortgage, car, household bills etc. and there is not much going spare.
Hats off to everyone that can spend out on multiple Swiss brands. Are you all on bankers bonuses or lottery winners?
Anyway, this is it as of today, and most probably, the last change until the new year.
Hell of a nice collection.
Just a quick query, why Seiko and Citizen and not Tissot and Hamilton (just two entry level Swiss brands plucked at random).
I mean it's all very well aspiring to Rolex etc, but if it's the Japanese sports models that tick your boxes then you're on the right track. It's most definitely nothing to be embarrassed about there, it's a superb collection and appears to be quite diverse.
I've been up and down every path from Vintage Omega to modern Cartier... regardless of what I buy I always always end up in the same place - looking longingly at the Seiko back-catalogue.
Value doesn't really factor in, yes I could cash in my collection of "cheapies" and buy a couple of Rolex or Omega or whatever but frankly I get more pleasure out of a big box of Seiko Chronographs.
You made a fool of yourself. Blaming others for that does you no credit.
You have not produced any evidence for your childish accusations and neither have you made an apology.
I hope whatever it is that is troubling you turns for the better.
Kudos to the fine forum members who recognize and attempt to correct unacceptable behavior that brings discredit to the forum.
That is very well said Paul.
Now cue him hurtling abuse at me,again.
As for Rolex,collections and money I don't care.
My aim isn't to buy expensive watches and it's not killing me with jealousy that I don't have them as for the most part I don't like them anyway.
I will never judge someone a good person on their expensive watch.
Especially When it's worn like gold soverign rings,medallions to be flash.
My most worn watch lately is a £350 Padi if that's all I had I wouldn't feel left out or poor.
I never ever look at my watches in monetary terms.
One thing I have noticed is a lot of the well heeled on here denigrating the less well of,if they sell or buy something cheap when that's all they can afford.
I have my opinion on that sort of person,you can guess what it is.
They will sell expensive watches which are easy come to them,then chide someone who sells a strap or something for a fiver.
That's not all of the well of by the way.
Beg your pardon... Where did that come from?
I think he has you confused with me.
Some of us work hard and make good choices. Some never achieve and wallow in self pity.
Those who think others wear watches with a price point of more than a few hundred to be ‘flash’ are incorrect in the world of the WIS. I have been in this hobby for over 25 years and I am lucky to have watches ranging from under £100 to almost £30,000.
As an average earner for many years I spent my spare cash on watches - not clothes, not vehicles, not holidays.
I don’t sell used nato straps for a fiver because they should be disposed of, nothing to do with the money.
Last edited by burnsey66; 8th November 2016 at 20:28. Reason: I Can’t Spell
Thank you, that is the most sensible statement in this entire thread.
Agree Steve.
Whatever one can afford or not afford, the saddest,dumbest and the most pathetic thing on a watch forum is to accuse someone wearing an expensive watch of being flash.
To the OP the views of some on here are no where near the majority. Your collection is precious to you a good on yer for posting them. Over the years I have bought and sold some nice watches not mega expensive but I settle sometimes on a piece that just does it, for now it's a £600 Oris GMT and I have not took it off my wrist. I just love it despite having a Sub in the safe. As other sensible people on here have said bide your time and your collection will evolve as you want it to.
I agree. I have been a member on here for a middling amount of time, although I don't post much, and this is one thing going that has noticeably changed about the forum. It used to be much more about mdlded Seikos, Eddie's watches, Sinn/Damasko, with some Rolexes and higher end pieces as well. Now the balance has shifted, but there's still a good mix.
I enjoy all the great photos of lovely watches though, even if fewer of them are affordable for me!
"I don’t sell used nato straps for a fiver because they should be disposed of, nothing to do with the money."
Why should NATO straps be disposed of?
Never having worn one Im not familiar with them though the speedy pro has come with 2 or 3 I think.
It is my opinion.
They are fabric and I wouldn’t sell a shirt I’d worn for six months, nor would I buy one.
Your opinion may vary.
Bracelets collect bacteria too so if its from some sort of cross contamination viewpoint then its wide of the mark.
If its from the viewpoint of its a fiver and"I can't be bothered" then fair enough.
Seriously, are we all hard up enough to save a fiver on a strap?
As for value - Nato straps can be bought for a tenner, so the principle of buying one for a fiver just doesn’t work for me. A bracelet could be a grand - not as easily replaced.
That said, I’d wear a bracelet which has been subject to an ultrasonic clean, but I would not wear a used Nato strap which may have been chucked in the washing machine.
Nothing a 24 hour soaking in alcohol won't fix.
A good boil wash for the Nato and it would be good to go.
Probably cost more for the boil wash than the strap was worth right enough.
Nice collection OP I really like the blue faced Citizen diver (the ploprof looking one) and having just got hold of a MM300 I can't believe how nice a watch it is for the money at 2nd hand prices.
I have what most people might consider a large collection of watches (35+) ranging in price but I have to say it's the watches at the cheaper end of the scale that get the most wear. They are more enjoyable for me and to be honest offer a bit more variety where my collection is concerned. Enjoy what you have, buy what you like and what suits you at the time. What others have or don't have matters not a jot.
Re the buying of 2nd hand NATOs I just don't get it...
You can cleanse a bracelet and to some extent a rubber strap but buying a bit of nylon that costs next to nothing that someone else has worn is beyond me. A bit like buying 2nd hand shoes... but I won't go there :-)
It's interesting to me that affordability has come up because clearly we all have different levels of income and different ideas about value in watches.
I'd assume we don't all feel the same way about however many million $ A Jolie spent on that Patek for B Pitt a couple of years ago (wonder where it'll end up post divorce?) but I remember someone saying to me 'well effectively that's only 5% of the couple's combined income that year which seems reasonable to spend on a special watch'
Elsewhere on this thread someone wisely pointed out that once you've bought and sold a more expensive piece (I have but only once) and worked out that actually you've effectively been paid to wear it, or at most paid a couple of hundred quid over a two year period to enjoy it, the value issue shifts again. Does the few grand sitting in an ISA rather than on your wrist represent anything like that value? Not for me. But I'm not sure I'd feel great about owning ten 'expensive' watches, regardless of income.
I'll tell you when I win the lottery. Which I don't play.
I have no issue with forum members having luxurious collections that I can't afford because they invariably show very clear appreciation for them - very rarely on here if ever do I get the sense that members are just hoovering up expensive watches and not valuing them. It's something that irks me far more on TRF though. Some of the posting on there sits badly with me if I'm honest.
However 16 years ago I went into my first Swiss watch boutique in Interlaken and tried on my first selection of more valuable pieces, and I've not worn a cheaper watch since...
Really nice collection OP, I like all those Seikos.
As about the question on Rolex vs the UK average wage. It is all about priorities and obviously disposable income. A single person with £27k salary living with his parents will have more disposable income then a married one with kids, earning 80k in London and renting a flat. When I started working after university, I was at EUR 36k, but I have never felt so rich since even if I earn much more than that now. I was used to frugal student life and suddenly I was able to afford restaurants, travels, buying nice clothes etc. And yes after i received my second salary I went to an AD an bought a Breitling for EUR 1.5k which I still wear the most. Nowadays with what I pay for childcare I can buy a Rolex every 3 months but that's another story...
OP, you've got a nice collection there. Enjoying what you have is really the most important thing.
I reckon that watches, like investing, relies on timing. In 2006 I bought a used GMT II (2003 model) for £2100 from a jeweller. I regret selling it solely based on the money I "lost". For me to buy that same watch now would be, what, £4000 privately and at least £4500 from a jeweller?
Sadly, the longer you wait, the more that Rolex will cost.
I don't own but could own. Simple answer is inheritance. Nothing is bought unless the right price to be considered a better (one hopes) investment than leaving it in the bank
This is so spot on. Great reply
Look at me, I have a Rolex, shake of the wrist, go on, ask me the time..........again!
I live in a place where public transport is very convenient so I save a lot from car expenses.
Over the years I accumulated more 3 dozens of Seiko and other brands. I start to ask myself, do I need three dozen Seiko or just a couple of more decent watches?
PS I do wear this over the past month since I got it
Some very interesting comments on this topic.
It's all relative of course and how you chose to spend your income and how much you waste, invest, enjoy or just spend on daily needs is down to the individual. I would just say it's a lot easier to minimise losses in terms of wealth rather than earn it in the first place! You don't need to be 'tight' just be ultra careful and mindful of buying the right thing at the right time for the right price and when (if applicable) you come to sell applying the same logic. Does not matter if it is cars, watches, sports gear, consumables, insurance, hire costs, mobile/TV contracts etc. So many people waste so much money because they cannot be bothered to do their homework or shop around it's incredible.
Of course you need to be able to justify a big purchase anyway, having a five or six grand watch on your wrist might be nice for sure but is it sensible, necessary, uplifting? For some sure but for me, well I'm lucky through hard work and saving carefully to be able to buy a new big name watch if I wanted to but I just can't justify it and I'm perfectly happy with a G Shock or an old beater of a Seiko or Doxa. Each to their own. :)
Last edited by Max...; 10th November 2016 at 11:01.
Perhaps it's worth stating the obvious, and pointing out that having a collection of high end Swiss watches on an average wage is not a particularly realistic expectation, or a wise goal. They are, after all luxury watches. The honest answer to the original question is that owners of such collections are not on an average salary, and that members of a watch forum are highly unlikely to be a sample of average earners reflecting a cross section of UK society. Fortunately it is possible to appreciate watches without spending a fortune, and you can enjoy a great vintage find as much as a high end piece costing a hundred times more. But there's no denying it's an expensive hobby, or has an expensive side to it - it's not bird watching. At least this isn't a luxury yacht forum, and we don't have to ask how everyone can somehow afford huge yachts on an average wage!
Perhaps in the past an average earner might have stretched to owning one high end watch to celebrate a significant milestone, and that's after saving up an incredible three month's salary - a traditional idea probably invented by the diamond and watch industry rather than being a sensible guideline, but it's been quoted before. On that basis an average salary still adds up to a luxury watch. For many, that expensive watch didn't arrive until retirement, if at all. These days saving up for that watch is harder than ever, with insane watch prices backed up by the rise of the Swiss Franc, and insane rents and property prices to eat up any spare money. I suspect many of those of us who have a few nice watches to show bought both the watches and our properties when they were cheaper, and are now enjoying low mortage rates on a relatively small loan, or no mortage at all. For those paying extortionate rents or saving up huge sums for a deposit, without access to the best rates once they buy, luxury watches that have doubled or tripled in price are going to be further out of reach than ever. The best advice is probably to learn to love vintage and the less obvious used models, which have gone up too, but where at least there are still good finds. There are plenty of other ways to enjoy watches than chasing after luxury, as the OP has already demonstrated.
Last edited by Itsguy; 10th November 2016 at 15:14.
I have a friend who earns a very good living selling 'luxury' audio gear. It often costs tens of thousands of pounds.
He has noticed that his keenest customers are rarely even moderately wealthy. Some are caretakers, care assistants and so on. I don't say that to denigrate such people, far from it. Somehow they do find the money, because they take their hobby so seriously.
I suspect plenty of Rolex watches are owned by people of apparently modest means. You can't calibrate this just by income. Thankfully. That would be a crap hobby. Attitude is the key, enthusiasm, not money.
Last edited by paskinner; 10th November 2016 at 13:49.
I bought the one on the left before I owned a home. Bought the one on the right afterwards. Living with the parents allows you to bank a lot of cash.
Also helps that I bought my car ages ago for £6k and haven't changed it since. No payments, no lump sum deposits or down payments etc etc.
Some good posts here pointing out the real key, what you do with your personal disposable income is up to you.
That is a really cool watch and I bet you get a lot of compliments..... and the Rolex is nice too
Lol.
Got to love a Swatch :)
Despite being totally rich I don't spend big money on watches because I tend to bash them around. So I only have beaters.
Crates worth of beaters.
;-)
Clearly, to own a few of the current 'forum favourite' Rolexes requires a significant sum of money and it's likely that those who have a few are people with high incomes or plenty of spare cash (not necessarily the same thing). However, there are plenty on here who may have bought a Rolex or two several years ago when prices were far cheaper. The sharp increase in prices in recent years has changed perceptions somewhat; when people think of Rolex ownership they equate this with today's absurd prices and make assumptions about the wearer. Several years ago I bought a nice 6 yr old steel Datejust for £1550 at a time when the equivalent new one ( 116234) could be had for around £2650. I was perfectly happy wearing a watch that was perceived as being worth £2.6k, I didn't see it as excessive. Fast forward to 2016, the new price of a 116234 must be around £5k (possibly more, I'm out of touch), anyone seeing my old Datejust will equate it with a £5grand watch, and probably make a different inference about me. I'm far less comfortable with this. Likewise the Explorer I bought several years back for £1750, or the mint-condition 1986 bimetal Datejust I boght around the same time for around £1400. Maybe this says something about me, but the fact remains that these watches can give out a misleading message owing to the current high prices of the equivalent models which look identical at a glance. If these were cars it would be totally different........ Rolex watches don't change that much!
Ironically I get more pleasure from the vintage Omegas I've owned for many years, and I never feel embarassed about wearing them no matter where I go. These are watches worth a few £100s, they don't really say anything about the wearer other than the fact that he's wearing an old watch that's rather small.
It's a shame that Rolex watches have become so expensive; not only are they harder to pay for (I couldn't foil to pay the current prices) but the message they give out has become more associated with wealth than it ever was. For many of us that's not a good thing, I prefer to be perceived as a man with good taste than a guy with loadsamoney.
I'm sure things were far healthier 10 years ago .
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 11th November 2016 at 14:59.
As best I can tell, people don't notice what watch others are wearing. There is no real interest among the general population. Which is good, because we presumably wear a watch just because we like it , not because it might cost a lot . Or is that naive?
Mostly true on both counts, but there are exceptions. The minority who are into watches and 'speak the language' probably do notice each other's choices even if they don't comment, while the rest wouldn't know a JLC from a JCB. And hopefully we just wear what we like, but we're also looking for that one watch that isn't just a lump of metal, the one that has magic powers. Beauty, rarity and value can help us to convince ourselves that we've found it. Fortunately the beauty part needn't be related to price, at least.
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