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Thread: FIFA - Say No to England & Scotland Players Wearing the Poppy

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildheart View Post
    Sorry if I was his manager I would not play him, my reason would be that he lacked respect for a team/club that supports British values.
    I’m part Irish, my ancestors are Catholic my father is receiving a Catholic funeral but also the service is being giving by a Protestant minister who happens to be my cousin. His dog tag said RC.


    The Poppy is not religious it is a mark of respect to those fell upholding this countries values at that time.

    James McClean needs to educate himself and visit the Irish Tower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Tower

    where the North and South fought together on the Somme a 100 years ago nine VC’s won there.
    Is this not heading to a position where you think wearing a poppy is compulsory and not a choice? If I choose not to wear one should my employer sack me? Or does it depend on what I'm not wearing one?




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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by paule23 View Post
    Is this not heading to a position where you think wearing a poppy is compulsory and not a choice?
    If it were to become compulsory the poppy would immediately become meaningless in terms of what it represents, and would be a slap in the face to those supposedly being remembered.

  3. #53
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    I don't see it as political at all.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by pluseditor View Post
    I don't see it as political at all.
    Have you read the responses in this thread? What IS political then???

  5. #55
    We can probably agree that this is political (Irish team logo commemorating Easter rising): -

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37872020

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by paule23 View Post
    Is this not heading to a position where you think wearing a poppy is compulsory and not a choice? If I choose not to wear one should my employer sack me? Or does it depend on what I'm not wearing one?




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    Not at all this is a player representing a club/town with tradition. If he want's to preach sectarianism (which is what he believes) do it elsewhere.
    Would he continue to warm up as others observed the two minute silence? Best he stay away, can’t see it doing much for team morale.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Have you read the responses in this thread? What IS political then???
    Yes, I have read the responses on this thread.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by pluseditor View Post
    I don't see it as political at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Have you read the responses in this thread? What IS political then???
    Is this political?


    See also Who, What, Why: Which countries wear poppies? for (from 2011):

    "England footballers will now be allowed to wear poppies when playing Spain at the weekend, says world football's governing body, Fifa"

    "In France, the blue cornflower, "le bleuet" is also worn, but not as widely as the poppy in the UK."

  9. #59
    Let's hope everyone stands for the National Anthem.........no kneeling..............

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Have you read the responses in this thread? What IS political then???
    Everything can be made political if you want it to be.

    Some would argue that the Dutch "Orange" is political - because if its association with William of Orange. and we all know how that might be viewed in some parts of Ireland. In fact the Orange Day Marches and Orange Men in northern Ireland are completely political.

    The Poppy is a symbol for a charity in the UK to assist servicemen and to remember Armistice Day that is all. Do you also consider OXFAM or The Red Cross logo as political symbols??

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  11. #61
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    Royal British Legion urges Fifa rethink over poppy ban stance:

    The Royal British Legion has written to Fifa, urging it to lift its poppy ban, saying the symbol "has no political, religious or commercial meaning"...

  12. #62
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    I think it should be 2 fingers up to FIFA - after there antics lately!!

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by wildheart View Post
    Sorry if I was his manager I would not play him, my reason would be that he lacked respect for a team/club that supports British values.
    I’m part Irish, my ancestors are Catholic my father is receiving a Catholic funeral but also the service is being giving by a Protestant minister who happens to be my cousin. His dog tag said RC.


    The Poppy is not religious it is a mark of respect to those fell upholding this countries values at that time.

    James McClean needs to educate himself and visit the Irish Tower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Tower

    where the North and South fought together on the Somme a 100 years ago nine VC’s won there.
    In fairness to James McClean, the British paratroopers shot dead 14 civilians in his hometown - that might explain his reluctance to wear the poppy, instead of being secterian.

    As for Fifa's moves, I can see their angle but I think 'penalty be damned' and people should wear their poppy if that is what they believe in.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asupercoolusername;[URL="tel:4135379"
    4135379[/URL]]In fairness to James McClean, the British paratroopers shot dead 14 civilians in his hometown - that might explain his reluctance to wear the poppy, instead of being secterian.

    As for Fifa's moves, I can see their angle but I think 'penalty be damned' and people should wear their poppy if that is what they believe in.

    In fairness that was long before he was born and in fairness, the British Paratroopers where posted to Northern Ireland to help protect the Catholic community and as a result received quite a few casualties from those they were try to protect.

    However whatever his reasons he should not be compelled to wear a poppy if he doesn't want to. I am sure the vast majority of ex-service people would actually rather he didn't.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordystar View Post
    Each player should have the freedom of choice to wear whatever he/she wants regardless of who it offends, why do we these days have to tread on egg shells because of people's feelings or beliefs.
    Do you really mean that, really? I might be taking you literally but you are saying it's OK to wear a swastika for example. I'm pretty sure you'd not agree to that........would you say?

    The fact that FIFA allowed England to wear a poppy before, and the obvious symbolism and emotion it evokes means that this kind of stand off was inevitable.

    I would be a lot happier had the Poppy not become the political emblem that is has. Regardless of that, I still say that any person should be at liberty to show respect in the way they feel is most appropriate. In other words FIFA can go "fork" themselves!

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordystar View Post
    Each player should have the freedom of choice to wear whatever he/she wants regardless of who it offends, why do we these days have to tread on egg shells because of people's feelings or beliefs.
    Given your age, you really should be more respectful of the issue.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  17. #67
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    Being forced to do anything makes the gesture redundant. There has to be freedom of choice and each individual has to stand by their decision and accept reasonable fallout and possible criticism. Abuse is unacceptable. That should be dealt with rigorously by the authorities.

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  18. #68
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    This thread does kind of sum up the whole politicising and emotion of the subject, which the press played on to add fuel to this story. How a bit of thread being added to a football top was being equated to some massive disrespect on the part of FIFA is just silly, just because they can't have a poppy on their kit doesn't mean they can't respect or do something on the day, there will be way more than a game of football going on.

  19. #69
    James McClean chooses not to wear a poppy as he feels it would be disrespecful to the memory of 14 innocent civilians murdered in his home town during Bloody Sunday in 1972 by members of the British Army. He is on record as saying that if the poppy was simply about World War One and Two victims alone, he would wear it without a problem. That should have been the end of the matter. Instead he is booed by his own fans, he is sent death threats, he is the subject to vitriolic opinion pieces in the red tops and abused on social media.

    Kay Burley has only recently called out fellow journalist Kevin Maguire for not wearing a poppy a whole two weeks before rememberance sunday. If everyone is forced to wear a poppy, and it is no longer a choice, than what is the point? Isn't it ironic that the second world war was fought against facism, to allow us to remain a free people and yet the likes of Burley want to deny others the right to dress how they see fit?

    The disgusting abuse of McClean and the complete lack of support he recieved from the FA and PFA is a warning to any footballer who has the independence of thought to take difficult decisions. It has also sadly contributed to the politicalisation of the the poppy, especially on the football field.
    Last edited by rasputin; 6th November 2016 at 09:20.

  20. #70
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    The abuse McLean receives is not just about not wearing a poppy though.

    He isn't the first footballer to be on the receiving end of abuse from football fans, and he won't be the last.

    Is it justifiable?

    The people who give him abuse must think so.

    They have also a right to express their opinion, just like McLean.


    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    James McClean chooses not to wear a poppy as he feels it would be disrespecful to the memory of 14 innocent civilians murdered in his home town during Bloody Sunday in 1972 by members of the British Army. He is on record as saying that if the poppy was simply about World War One and Two victims alone, he would wear it without a problem. That should have been the end of the matter. Instead he is booed by his own fans, he is sent death threats, he is the subject to vitriolic opinion pieces in the red tops and abused on social media.

    Kay Burley has only recently called out fellow journalist Kevin Maguire for not wearing a poppy a whole two weeks before rememberance sunday. If everyone is forced to wear a poppy, and it is no longer a choice, than what is the point? Isn't it ironic that the second world war was fought against facism, to allow us to remain a free people and yet the likes of Burley want to deny others the right to dress how they see fit?

    The disgusting abuse of McClean and the complete lack of support he recieved from the FA and PFA is a warning to any footballer who has the independence of thought to take difficult decisions. It has also sadly contributed to the politicalisation of the the poppy, especially on the football field.
    Last edited by jcherskine; 6th November 2016 at 12:07. Reason: football fans added to post for clarification

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by jcherskine View Post
    The abuse McLean receives is not just about not wearing a poppy though.

    He isn't the first footballer to be on the receiving end of abuse, and he won't be the last.

    Is it justifiable?

    The people who give him abuse must think so.

    They have also a right to express their opinion, just like McLean.
    Death threats? Really?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    Death threats? Really?
    Read what I posted.

    I never mentioned that.

    Do not try to twist things.

    I mentioned abuse by fans.

    That's all.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by jcherskine View Post
    Read what I posted.

    I never mentioned that.

    Do not try to twist things.

    I mentioned abuse by fans.

    That's all.
    You didn't specify fans.

    That's all.

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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    You didn't specify fans.

    That's all.

    R
    I have now , for clarification.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    James McLean chooses not to wear a poppy as he feels it would be disrespecful to the memory of 14 innocent civilians murdered in his home town during Bloody Sunday in 1972 by members of the British Army. He is on record as saying that if the poppy was simply about World War One and Two victims alone, he would wear it without a problem. That should have been the end of the matter. Instead he is booed by his own fans, he is sent death threats, he is the subject to vitriolic opinion pieces in the red tops and abused on social media.

    Kay Burley has only recently called out fellow journalist Kevin Maguire for not wearing a poppy a whole two weeks before rememberance sunday. If everyone is forced to wear a poppy, and it is no longer a choice, than what is the point? Isn't it ironic that the second world war was fought against facism, to allow us to remain a free people and yet the likes of Burley want to deny others the right to dress how they see fit?

    The disgusting abuse of McClean and the complete lack of support he recieved from the FA and PFA is a warning to any footballer who has the independence of thought to take difficult decisions. It has also sadly contributed to the politicalisation of the the poppy, especially on the football field.

    I'm sorry but James McLean is an attention seeking no mark in my opinion*

    #keepreligionandpoliticsoutoffootball



    *From a West Brom supporter

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    Kay Burley has only recently called out fellow journalist Kevin Maguire for not wearing a poppy a whole two weeks before rememberance sunday.
    Have I Got News for You last week made the point that they'd wear a poppy on the actual anniversary but it isn't Christmas which seems to begin in August these days.

  27. #77
    The RBL's guidance is for the poppy to be worn from the launch of the annual appeal.

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  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damo View Post
    I think it should be 2 fingers up to FIFA - after there antics lately!!
    Well said.

  29. #79
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    Sounds like the usual mix up with football associations, http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37941626. I agree with Danny Mills, the FA have somehow misunderstood the answer and then went out of their way to politicise it, instead of just focusing on what they could do to honour the event, as well as doing their actual day jobs.

  30. #80
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    Sounds like the usual mix up with football associations, http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37941626. I agree with Danny Mills, the FA have somehow misunderstood the answer and then went out of their way to politicise it, instead of just focusing on what they could do to honour the event, as well as doing their actual day jobs.

  31. #81
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    It seems that Fifa have said they "could not guarantee that there would not be disciplinary proceedings if a poppy was displayed." Given the precedent set in 2011, I'd like to know why they cannot make a ruling before the games. They have received multiple requests and have had plenty of time.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    The RBL's guidance is for the poppy to be worn from the launch of the annual appeal.

    R
    Should you choose to wear one of course


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  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by paule23 View Post
    Should you choose to wear one of course


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    Maybe that's why it is guidance?

  34. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    It seems that Fifa have said they "could not guarantee that there would not be disciplinary proceedings if a poppy was displayed." Given the precedent set in 2011, I'd like to know why they cannot make a ruling before the games. They have received multiple requests and have had plenty of time.
    Perhaps the multi-millionaire players could offer to cover any potential fine. Few thousand each max, they wouldn't notice it and a nice gesture.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkychris View Post
    Perhaps the multi-millionaire players could offer to cover any potential fine. Few thousand each max, they wouldn't notice it and a nice gesture.
    Perhaps Fifa would accept pre-payment?

  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Perhaps Fifa would accept pre-payment?
    Probably prefer it in cash as well.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Maybe that's why it is guidance?
    Maybe


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  38. #88
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    I hope and expect to see the Scottish and English players wearing the poppy tonight on remembrance day especially.

    I see the Welsh have caved though.
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  39. #89
    FIFA have just levied fines.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38368144

    :-(

    R
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  40. #90
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    They are disgusting. Apparently it is a political statement to remember the fallen. What a disgrace FIFA is.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjrennie View Post
    They are disgusting. Apparently it is a political statement to remember the fallen. What a disgrace FIFA is.
    Absolutely. FIFA is a complete and utter joke of an organisation

  42. #92
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    I don't see how we can pay it - surely the Foreign Corrupt Payments Act prohibits paying a corrupt organisation. Pay the British Legion instead.
    Last edited by Dazzler; 19th December 2016 at 14:36.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzler View Post
    I don't see how we can pay it - surely the Foreign Corrupt Payments Act prohibits paying a corrupt organisation. Pay the British Legion instead.
    That's a very good point. I really hope this 'fine' is treated with the contempt it deserves

  44. #94
    Ooooh, those naughty Welsh fans, how dare they.



    I'd support the non-payment of the fines as a matter of principle.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  45. #95
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Ooooh, those naughty Welsh fans, how dare they.



    I'd support the non-payment of the fines as a matter of principle.

    R
    The Welsh FA unfortunately would not side with the English and Scottish FA's in allowing their players to wear poppies as they were wary of a fine of loss of points.

    They got the fine anyway.

    The Republic of Ireland got off with a tiny fine even though their players actually wore a political message on their shirts.

    FIFA is a just a corrupt mess, how they have the nerve to fine other people is just beyond belief.
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  46. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    The Republic of Ireland got off with a tiny fine even though their players actually wore a political message on their shirts.
    .
    The RoI vs Oman game you refer to was a friendly, and not a FIFA organised event.

  47. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    FIFA have just levied fines.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38368144

    :-(

    R

    Have they asked for the fine to be paid in cash in small denomination used notes ?

  48. #98
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    So the FA have (or will have) donated £35k to buy publicity worth how many times £35k for the British Legion?
    I'm sure it wasn't planned this way but it's not a bad result.

  49. #99
    Ooooh, I rather like this idea.



    ;-)

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Ooooh, I rather like this idea.



    ;-)

    R
    That is a superb idea, if it works - will they be stuck for postage?

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