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Thread: FIFA - Say No to England & Scotland Players Wearing the Poppy

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  1. #1
    Master wildheart's Avatar
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    FIFA - Say No to England & Scotland Players Wearing the Poppy

    Should our players wear the poppy and us face a points reduction? I say yes!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37848413

  2. #2
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    If the FA have a backbone they will simply ignore FIFA, and then ignore the resulting fine.

    Failing that, the players should simply reject it and do as they like - free world and all that . Perhaps they should all get tattoos of poppies.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  3. #3
    Master village's Avatar
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    Sod Fifa...they are idiots. The respective FAs should just ignore them and do it anyway.

  4. #4
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    If the FA have a backbone they will simply ignore FIFA, and then ignore the resulting fine.

    Failing that, the players should simply reject it and do as they like - free world and all that . Perhaps they should all get tattoos of poppies.
    Remember this. Para-swimming star Josef Craig banned over tattoo?

    Paralympic champion swimmer Josef Craig has been disqualified from a race at the IPC European Championships for failing to cover up a tattoo.

  5. #5
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Tattoos -even temporary ones - is a good idea. It's a noble thing to give a point up but it would be a travesty if that point meant the difference between qualifying or not.
    And unfortunately poppies are almost exclusively a British thing and thus other FA would struggle to support it and justify it to both their players and supporters.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  6. #6
    Grand Master
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    Does it really matter, remembrance day will be the main focus and all sporting events will still have their silence and respect.

    The whole poppy thing is getting very commercial now, seems to be blown out of proportion every year due to some company/person/country showing some perceived disrespect, whereas in most instances it's just the way it is, FIFA have always had this rule about things like this, so why the big outpouring of anger this year, other than papers starting an argument that suddenly turns into a huge nationwide issue.

  7. #7
    Stating it's political is just daft. No more political than the Respect armbands.

    Greg Dyke has just said they'll wear them. Excellent!

  8. #8
    does make me chuckle how the 'keep politics out of sport' (media) brigade are so up in arms about this

  9. #9
    We can probably agree that this is political (Irish team logo commemorating Easter rising): -

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37872020

  10. #10
    Master Gruntfuttock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Tattoos -even temporary ones - is a good idea. ....
    On the average appallingly tattood footballer, where would you find the space for anyone to notice? They should sod FIFA and wear the poppy shirts.

  11. #11
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntfuttock View Post
    On the average appallingly tattood footballer, where would you find the space for anyone to notice? They should sod FIFA and wear the poppy shirts.
    You have a point...
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  12. #12
    Master zelig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntfuttock View Post
    They should sod FIFA and wear the poppy shirts.
    +1

    z

  13. #13
    It's very obviously a political symbol. We wouldn't be having the discussion if it wasn't.

    Unfortunately it's become political to wear one and political not to.

    Wearing poppies at sporting events is a very new thing. We have no tradition of it. Why the press are whipping this into nationalistic frenzy is beyond me.

    I don't wear a poppy for my own reasons. However, I've been to Ypres and attended the armistice service twice. I don't need a paper flower to show my gratitude and I'm increasingly upset about the over commercialisation and mandatory nature of it. Worse still are the Britain First brigade who make and sell their own poppy merchandise that doesn't go to the servicemen.

  14. #14
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guinea View Post
    It's very obviously a political symbol. We wouldn't be having the discussion if it wasn't.

    Unfortunately it's become political to wear one and political not to.

    Wearing poppies at sporting events is a very new thing. We have no tradition of it. Why the press are whipping this into nationalistic frenzy is beyond me.
    Nonsense (as usual).

    FIFA have a raft of corruption issues to sort out without issuing edicts about symbolism that clearly is a fundamental part of a nations history, respect and remembrance.

    Personal choice perhaps, I happen to support the overwhelming view that the teams should pay due respect.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  15. #15
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guinea;[URL="tel:4133038"
    4133038[/URL]]It's very obviously a political symbol. We wouldn't be having the discussion if it wasn't.

    Unfortunately it's become political to wear one and political not to.

    Wearing poppies at sporting events is a very new thing. We have no tradition of it. Why the press are whipping this into nationalistic frenzy is beyond me.

    I don't wear a poppy for my own reasons. However, I've been to Ypres and attended the armistice service twice. I don't need a paper flower to show my gratitude and I'm increasingly upset about the over commercialisation and mandatory nature of it. Worse still are the Britain First brigade who make and sell their own poppy merchandise that doesn't go to the servicemen.
    its political if people want to make it political. Unfortunately it's seems that FIFA chose to make it political.

    At the end of the days it a symbol, which you can argue is actually less political that the flags, national anthems, 3 lions or the cross of st George is. (All of which seems quite acceptable).

    All very strange. But then we are talking about one of the oddest and most corrupt organisations in the free world.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  16. #16
    Craftsman
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    I think it should be 2 fingers up to FIFA - after there antics lately!!

  17. #17
    Master snowman's Avatar
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    I wonder how much FIFA want to change their view?

    M

  18. #18
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    Each player should have the freedom of choice to wear whatever he/she wants regardless of who it offends, why do we these days have to tread on egg shells because of people's feelings or beliefs.

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    poppy headbands is the way to go, armbands are soooo yesterday

    Last edited by soundood; 3rd November 2016 at 03:35.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by fordystar View Post
    Each player should have the freedom of choice to wear whatever he/she wants regardless of who it offends, why do we these days have to tread on egg shells because of people's feelings or beliefs.
    How many footballers will be wearing a poppy now - going shopping, to training etc? Not many I suggest. They will only 'want' to wear one when appearing on TV or such when they'll be issued with the obligatory poppy (probably FOC) on entering the studio.

  21. #21
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    How many footballers will be wearing a poppy now - going shopping, to training etc? Not many I suggest. They will only 'want' to wear one when appearing on TV or such when they'll be issued with the obligatory poppy (probably FOC) on entering the studio.
    Not many unless they have one on their jammies, as its early in the morning and they will be tucked up in bed

    But you have missed the point.

    Currently FIFA has banned them from wearing one - even if they wanted to.

    What would you think if your employer banned you from wearing one in the office? Of if you were banned from wearing one on the bus. Etc.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Not many unless they have one on their jammies, as its early in the morning and they will be tucked up in bed

    But you have missed the point.

    Currently FIFA has banned them from wearing one - even if they wanted to.

    What would you think if your employer banned you from wearing one in the office? Of if you were banned from wearing one on the bus. Etc.
    I suggest that many football players if they had a choice wouldn't bother. They obviously will 'want' to wear one now because that is what the public (whipped into a frenzy by certain press) demand.

  23. #23
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    I suggest that many football players if they had a choice wouldn't bother. They obviously will 'want' to wear one now because that is what the public (whipped into a frenzy by certain press) demand.
    That's a different topic. This topic relates to the fact the FIFA has banned the wearing of Poppy's, Thus denying players the choice.

    The fact that some players might feel obliged to wear a poppy because of media is a different topic I would say.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by fordystar View Post
    Each player should have the freedom of choice to wear whatever he/she wants regardless of who it offends...
    The principle is fine, but the reality of that is there are some things that are clearly acceptable, some that are clearly unacceptable and a whole scale of in-between: and somewhere along that scale we all place our tipping point.

    For me, the wearing of the poppy should not be banned.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  25. #25
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    FIFA - Say No to England & Scotland Players Wearing the Poppy

    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    The principle is fine, but the reality of that is there are some things that are clearly acceptable, some that are clearly unacceptable and a whole scale of in-between: and somewhere along that scale we all place our tipping point.

    For me, the wearing of the poppy should not be banned.

    R
    Agree 100%..

  26. #26
    It's back to the 'too easily offended' discussion that has appeared on other threads. I don't wear one but have no issue with anyone who does, any more/less than I have with someone having a Star of David, Cross or KKK symbol round their neck.

    Personal choice - but sod all to do with FIFA.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by afcneal View Post
    It's back to the 'too easily offended' discussion that has appeared on other threads. I don't wear one but have no issue with anyone who does, any more/less than I have with someone having a Star of David, Cross or KKK symbol round their neck.

    Personal choice - but sod all to do with FIFA.
    Or FA.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordystar View Post
    Each player should have the freedom of choice to wear whatever he/she wants regardless of who it offends, why do we these days have to tread on egg shells because of people's feelings or beliefs.
    and you believe that each player actually HAS the freedom to not wear it???
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordystar View Post
    Each player should have the freedom of choice to wear whatever he/she wants regardless of who it offends, why do we these days have to tread on egg shells because of people's feelings or beliefs.
    Do you really mean that, really? I might be taking you literally but you are saying it's OK to wear a swastika for example. I'm pretty sure you'd not agree to that........would you say?

    The fact that FIFA allowed England to wear a poppy before, and the obvious symbolism and emotion it evokes means that this kind of stand off was inevitable.

    I would be a lot happier had the Poppy not become the political emblem that is has. Regardless of that, I still say that any person should be at liberty to show respect in the way they feel is most appropriate. In other words FIFA can go "fork" themselves!

  30. #30
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordystar View Post
    Each player should have the freedom of choice to wear whatever he/she wants regardless of who it offends, why do we these days have to tread on egg shells because of people's feelings or beliefs.
    Given your age, you really should be more respectful of the issue.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  31. #31
    Journeyman Brucy's Avatar
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    They should have just worn them and done it, easier to ask for forgiveness than say please!

  32. #32
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    Fair play to the English and Scottish FA's.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37853386

    Poppies are a way of remembering our dead, they not a political statement!

  33. #33
    Master wildheart's Avatar
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    Iím so thankful that the FA has found some backbone. Itís a hundred years on from the Somme the bloodiest battle in human history; many professional footballers gave their lives in that and other conflicts.That we can mark the occasion, may at least for one game show some affiliation as a nation for others that made the ultimate sacrifice.
    My grandfather (as many of ours) fought through that terrible war, the effects devastated this nation and shape the 20th century for good or bad.

    Yes the commercialisation has tarnished the ĎPoppyí but thatís just the way of the modern world look at Christmas! But at least we can all agree (on TZ at least) that our fallen are remembered by all in all spheres of our lives.

    Lest we forget


  34. #34
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    The public relations disaster that would follow means that they do not really have the choice.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  35. #35
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    Scotland can't really afford the points can they....


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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by fergusdunn View Post
    Scotland can't really afford the points can they....


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    Hahahahaha. Nearly sprayed ma tea! We can afford to lose points as we're never qualifying anyway!!

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  37. #37
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    Hope they wear the poppies


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  38. #38
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tritium;[URL="tel:4134019"
    4134019[/URL]]Hope they wear the poppies


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    I hope they wear poppies because they wish to honour those the fought and died, and not because the feel obliged or pressured into it - otherwise it's a hollow gesture and pointless (no pun intended).
    Last edited by Andyg; 4th November 2016 at 08:50.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  39. #39
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    Being forced to do anything makes the gesture redundant. There has to be freedom of choice and each individual has to stand by their decision and accept reasonable fallout and possible criticism. Abuse is unacceptable. That should be dealt with rigorously by the authorities.

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  40. #40
    Grand Master
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    This thread does kind of sum up the whole politicising and emotion of the subject, which the press played on to add fuel to this story. How a bit of thread being added to a football top was being equated to some massive disrespect on the part of FIFA is just silly, just because they can't have a poppy on their kit doesn't mean they can't respect or do something on the day, there will be way more than a game of football going on.

  41. #41
    James McClean chooses not to wear a poppy as he feels it would be disrespecful to the memory of 14 innocent civilians murdered in his home town during Bloody Sunday in 1972 by members of the British Army. He is on record as saying that if the poppy was simply about World War One and Two victims alone, he would wear it without a problem. That should have been the end of the matter. Instead he is booed by his own fans, he is sent death threats, he is the subject to vitriolic opinion pieces in the red tops and abused on social media.

    Kay Burley has only recently called out fellow journalist Kevin Maguire for not wearing a poppy a whole two weeks before rememberance sunday. If everyone is forced to wear a poppy, and it is no longer a choice, than what is the point? Isn't it ironic that the second world war was fought against facism, to allow us to remain a free people and yet the likes of Burley want to deny others the right to dress how they see fit?

    The disgusting abuse of McClean and the complete lack of support he recieved from the FA and PFA is a warning to any footballer who has the independence of thought to take difficult decisions. It has also sadly contributed to the politicalisation of the the poppy, especially on the football field.
    Last edited by rasputin; 6th November 2016 at 09:20.

  42. #42
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    The abuse McLean receives is not just about not wearing a poppy though.

    He isn't the first footballer to be on the receiving end of abuse from football fans, and he won't be the last.

    Is it justifiable?

    The people who give him abuse must think so.

    They have also a right to express their opinion, just like McLean.


    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    James McClean chooses not to wear a poppy as he feels it would be disrespecful to the memory of 14 innocent civilians murdered in his home town during Bloody Sunday in 1972 by members of the British Army. He is on record as saying that if the poppy was simply about World War One and Two victims alone, he would wear it without a problem. That should have been the end of the matter. Instead he is booed by his own fans, he is sent death threats, he is the subject to vitriolic opinion pieces in the red tops and abused on social media.

    Kay Burley has only recently called out fellow journalist Kevin Maguire for not wearing a poppy a whole two weeks before rememberance sunday. If everyone is forced to wear a poppy, and it is no longer a choice, than what is the point? Isn't it ironic that the second world war was fought against facism, to allow us to remain a free people and yet the likes of Burley want to deny others the right to dress how they see fit?

    The disgusting abuse of McClean and the complete lack of support he recieved from the FA and PFA is a warning to any footballer who has the independence of thought to take difficult decisions. It has also sadly contributed to the politicalisation of the the poppy, especially on the football field.
    Last edited by jcherskine; 6th November 2016 at 12:07. Reason: football fans added to post for clarification

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by jcherskine View Post
    The abuse McLean receives is not just about not wearing a poppy though.

    He isn't the first footballer to be on the receiving end of abuse, and he won't be the last.

    Is it justifiable?

    The people who give him abuse must think so.

    They have also a right to express their opinion, just like McLean.
    Death threats? Really?

  44. #44
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    James McLean chooses not to wear a poppy as he feels it would be disrespecful to the memory of 14 innocent civilians murdered in his home town during Bloody Sunday in 1972 by members of the British Army. He is on record as saying that if the poppy was simply about World War One and Two victims alone, he would wear it without a problem. That should have been the end of the matter. Instead he is booed by his own fans, he is sent death threats, he is the subject to vitriolic opinion pieces in the red tops and abused on social media.

    Kay Burley has only recently called out fellow journalist Kevin Maguire for not wearing a poppy a whole two weeks before rememberance sunday. If everyone is forced to wear a poppy, and it is no longer a choice, than what is the point? Isn't it ironic that the second world war was fought against facism, to allow us to remain a free people and yet the likes of Burley want to deny others the right to dress how they see fit?

    The disgusting abuse of McClean and the complete lack of support he recieved from the FA and PFA is a warning to any footballer who has the independence of thought to take difficult decisions. It has also sadly contributed to the politicalisation of the the poppy, especially on the football field.

    I'm sorry but James McLean is an attention seeking no mark in my opinion*

    #keepreligionandpoliticsoutoffootball



    *From a West Brom supporter

  45. #45
    Grand Master Glamdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    Kay Burley has only recently called out fellow journalist Kevin Maguire for not wearing a poppy a whole two weeks before rememberance sunday.
    Have I Got News for You last week made the point that they'd wear a poppy on the actual anniversary but it isn't Christmas which seems to begin in August these days.

  46. #46
    The RBL's guidance is for the poppy to be worn from the launch of the annual appeal.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  47. #47
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Why old ones? Buy a full box from the British Legion, post them individually. Win-win.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  48. #48
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Why old ones? Buy a full box from the British Legion, post them individually. Win-win.
    If you can still buy them this time of the year, I'm game if you are!

  49. #49
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Need to check the postage issue but it's a deal if it works.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  50. #50
    Daft idea. FIFA will not have to accept the mail.

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