Loomes unveil an entirely English made watch mechanism
We are proud to announce the birth of our new movement
The Stamford Original will be revealed on Thursday at the Saatchi Gallery.A staff of fifteen machine and jewel the plates, cocks and bridges in small batches and machine cases and dials. Even the screws and jewels are made in England.
Weighing in at 29mm diameter and just 4.6mm thin the movement is designed to suit our own watch cases and dials.
The Stamford Original is a completely new movement. Every component is manufactured in England. Much of the turning work is outsourced to around twenty middle-England precision engineering companies. From there the watches are slowly built up in our Stamford workshops.
We were driven on by those in the industry who said this "couldn't be done" (the manufacturing of all the components in England). Robert stubbornly believed it could and has spent the last few years working towards this moment.
We will be exhibiting at Salon QP and the watch will be available for 2017. It is being made in a series of twelve in white gold and twelve in yellow gold cases, 39mm diameter. The price of each is £28,500.
Perhaps they might have spent a little less time selecting the precision engineering companies and a little more time designing something that people might want to buy. That is not a pretty watch at all as far as I am concerned. It may be a triumph of engineering, but who will ever get to know?
I read this yesterday and until I got to the price was very interested, not because of the styling which isnt to my taste but the claim to make everything in the UK, even Roger Smith buys in a few components so if this claim is 100% accurate then it is quite an achievement - the price though is a massive barrier but probably he only intends to sell a handful every year and that reflects in what he needs to charge. Good to see this type of engineering going on in the UK.
Keith
Is this real? I really hope its as it appears. I know last time i looked it wasnt quite as i expected (remade seagull movement at that time). Is this another NOS Smiths movement?
I know someone who is a Robert Loomes appreciator, and who I believe - is getting one of these.
Surely you have to appreciate the craft?
Al
If it's as it seems...i very much do and would consider purchase.
That is indeed an achievement, but £28500 for THAT? Even if I had that kind of cash to spend on a watch, it wouldn't be this one.
Last edited by asteclaru; 31st October 2016 at 19:52.
But - it begs the question.......Originally Posted by asteclaru
Do you select a watch for what it looks like, and what it says to other people? Or do you select - for the way it makes you feel, for the engineering that has gone into it, the passion, the tradition?
There are Submariners which are equally rare (in numbers produced) as the "Red" and "double red", but just not so "noticeable" - which leads me to believe that people want to be "noticed" to have something rare - rather than to have the self-satisfaction of ownership.
(apologies for all the """""""")
Al
The Volkswagen Phaeton was one of the, if not the, most technically accomplished luxury car of its era. With amortised development costs, production cost was well in excess of double the selling price. It looked like a Passat scaled up to 5/4ths size and wore the wrong badge. I would attest that for the vast amount of buyers and even connoisseurs the exterior design is fundamental to its desirability and for most the brand is also a critical factor. In my view you'd have to be a very special buyer to overlook the entirely questionable "style" of the Loome to spend £30,000 on it. Or £3,000 for me tbh. They'll only be making a small number for more than one reason.
I doubt it is anything more than a uk manufacturering of an existing movement, in a very expensive case.
It's just a matter of time...
What is going on with those lugs?
Call me superficial if you will, but when I buy a watch, the first thing I l'm interested in is what it looks like. Only afterwards I start reading about the movement, the engineering that's gone into it etc etc. If I don't like what it looks like, I'm not going to wear it, hence there's absolutely no point in buying it. Being a limited edition does nothing for me (unless I like what it looks like - I bought a Blacksteel Seawolf instead of the regular because I liked the black-yellow combo better, not because there's only 1000 of them)
This watch is truley awful. I know watchmaking students that could do a better job with only a few years of experience. Even loomes other watches are below the standard of modern watchmakers. To even put himself on the same platform as the only true english watchmaker 'roger smith' is the insult.
My guess and a one of a close friend of mine is that the movement is closely based on a soviet movement.
And I would love to know if the escapement itself was made in house.
Also, noting on the press release that the jewels are made in England, it does not necessarily mean they where made by Loomes, my guess is they where not.
I appreciate the effort made, I understand the pricing structure.
But what a god-awful looking watch. Unbelievably disappointing. It's just... nothing. It doesn't need to be ostentatious or even particularly innovative. Just more than... nothing.
For a small manufacturers design I'd say Dornbluth were nigh on perfect (if a touch large for my tastes), that's how this could have looked.
But Dornbluth (whose watches i do very much like) don't claim to manufacture their movements do they? I thought they enhanced and decorated existing ones?
The main point for me here is that (IMHO) Loomes has been slightly guilty of hyperbole in the past. I know when i enquired about an English made watch some years ago I was surprised to find out that it was a re-assembled/decorated Seagull movement that they bought in from China. It wasn't clear either from their site at that time.
Now i'm very aware that a lot of big name houses do something quite similair which is why I'm not interested in them either. I don't care to get into how much this goes on as it's not relevant to this particular watch, i hope!
But if this is something that is pretty much made in the UK then i'd be interested. Bremont have manufactured a bridge or two I believe and are aiming for more. RW Smith (my grail) is much more than that. I like to support watch making in this country and hence my interest in the claims here.
The looks of the watch are personal taste of course and it is what it is, I've never seen one in the flesh so to speak and i'd need to before purchase.
My interest is in how close to what I consider "Made in England" to mean his claims actually come this time.
I do not need to see that in the flesh to make my purchasing decision....
"We are about to show off our new English movement at SalonQP in November. A new design by us, using no imported components."
I love where the funding came from
Robert is talking at SalonQP, so hope to hear a lot more about this before the week is out.
Does anyone have a link to the picture? I can't see any working links and I don't seem to be able to see it on their website.
The watches I see on their website seem to be very conventional and wouldn't warrant the comments made here. ;-)
Yes a better picture of the movement would be good
Full resolution pictures of his current and past movement pictures so you can see the shambolic movement finishing.
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I don't really agree with the comments about shambolic finishing etc...seems unwarranted.
And if you don't like it, fair enough, each to their own etc and you can buy a normal default name watch and that's fine of course.
I quite like it...but I want it to quack like a duck as well as look like a duck :)
Last edited by Mikee; 1st November 2016 at 10:30.
Did you post pics? None appear for me. I can't see any markup for images in your post.
Fantastic achievement but I think the price is prohibitive. I did enquire about the Smiths based "Robin" a little while back but the £10,000 that they wanted for that seemed too much to me when I considered other options in the same price range.
Much as I would like to own a watch entirely made in the UK including all parts, I could only imagine paying a small premium for that USP. The price of this watch is astronomical IMHO for what you are getting.
I like:
That it's designed and manufactured in England, great achievement and really nice to read so hats off to Loomes.
The design of the dial and size of the case, fittingly classic.
I dislike:
The price(although to be expected, that kind of price was in my mind before I got to it.
The lugs, not so much they thickness but one of my pet hates on alot of watches are those lugs where no matter the strap thickness you're left exposed upper corners to the lugs, this looks like one of those.
Case back a little plain.
Would love to see one of these in the metal, unlikely but some real life owner pics would be a great start.
Price makes sense, it's just a shame about what it buys you. Can only echo what others have said - great that they're doing it at all, but blimey you've really got to want a wholly English watch to suffer that on a daily basis.
On a side note, I just had a look at their website for the first time in a while and learnt that whilst their previous gents model is called the Robin, the ladies equivalent is called....the Robina.
But that isn't possible.
Agree with most here so far though - regardless of the fact (and I've no reason to doubt that it is) that the watch is manufactured entirely in the U.K, the watch itself doesn't appeal at all.
Robert Loomes' wife is called Robina. Anyway, it's way out my price range and I'll never be buying one, but hats off to the guy I say. If he can make a 100% English watch from his small premises in Stamford, what's stopping the likes of Bremont?On a side note, I just had a look at their website for the first time in a while and learnt that whilst their previous gents model is called the Robin, the ladies equivalent is called....the Robina.
I think knowing that might actually make the name even worse! At 24 units and £28k this is a bit of a folly - Bremont would want to do tens of thousands at £5k, and it sounds like he's had to scour the country to find the right people that can make various bits and pieces. I'd bet they simply couldn't meet the demand of a larger operation, so you either have to throw a fortune at them or find a way to bring their skills in house. I'm sure they'll get there eventually and if it's like Bremont's current offering aesthetically then I'll be in the queue.
All credit to Loomes, but the watch looks like a poorly designed Chinese quartz you could find on Amazon for less than a tenner. I will refrain from any comment about the price - or who would buy one...
http://www.watchpro.com/loomes-defie...ely-in-the-uk/
Blimey, what a plain old thing. I wouldn't wear one if it was free.
"A man of little significance"
If anyone is interested in hearing the man himself talk about it, the session on Friday at SalonQP is free to anyone with an exhibition ticket but it seems you still need to book in:
Robert Loomes: making the Stamford - Friday 1.30pm
The British watchmaker describes the journey towards producing his latest watch, the Stamford, with a new movement entirely made in the UK.
I said for design for a small production run, from an independent, that I admire Dornbluth. I wasn't comparing their manufacturing.
Also someone mentioned talk of 'shambolic finishing'. I very much doubt it, but it's just an awful non-design to my eyes.
I don't think the price is unreasonable and I admire anyone who would buy such a thing.
But I agree with your Chinese quartz remark.
Last edited by DB9yeti; 1st November 2016 at 16:38.
That's pretty much where I am at. And if the undecorated movement looks like a marginal step up from a pin-pallet jobbie then perhaps a display back isn't the way forward. Perhaps think about doing what's known in the trade as a Brooklyn Bridge.
Is it just me or does it look like that screw nearest the crown isn't properly seated?
I also want it to have 200m of water resistance, like a duck. Well, a deep sea duck.
^^^This.
Especially the lug design looks dreadful and amateurish.
Back in the era of the Silver Shadow and Bentley T2, Rolls-Royce Crewe used to make almost everything including nuts and bolts and exhausts with other components bought in from (almost all) British suppliers (Lucas etc). They had a clear determination to be 100% British. And when that model was replaced by the Silver Spirit they started to see sense and realised that no one really cared whether the whole car was made in Britain (least of all by them). And honestly few did know or care.
I really struggle with the idea that this watch is somehow worth £30,000 because it's made in England with British suppliers hand-making components in tiny (and potentially quality constrained) quantities. Who is it aimed at. Nigel Farage? Does it come with a Union Jack tie and hanky set and a pair of aged Northampton-made brogues and, in a twist on car-branded watches, a Loomes branded Morgan? Bremont has some kind of plan it seems that may include making its own movement in the UK and certainly involves some precision component manufacturing but the Loomes effort just makes me say "so what?"
I'm imagining a port-soaked Mayfair dinner at Mark's Club hosted by William & Son where some corpulent Bankers are offered the rare chance to own the Loome and the £30,000 asking price is the rounding error on their bonuses. Other than that I'd definitely avoid letting people see it until they'd signed up.
...Oh and I love the "Chinese quartz from Amazon comment". To me it looks like one of those watches in American magazines that are available for four monthly payments of $79.95 but worth $10.99.
Oh, I agree entirely. My point is that we all have our own view on what value we would put on the "manufactured in England" aspect. Loomes' problem is that of the pool of folk who consider the premium reasonable (and I would expect that to be pretty small) he has to find 24 who can also get on with the aesthetics. It will be interesting to see whather anyone on this WIS-orientated forum takes the plunge.
Rich Brexiteers, obviously. ;-)
Thanks.
Well, it's nothing special that's for sure. But there's nothing terrible about it, either. Aesthetically it's not £28K in my opinion but there's far worse available for more money. And there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the lugs!
It is what it is, I guess.
I don't think it deserves the hate from some here. To manufacture fully British is hard to do nowadays but I am nevertheless glad to see it being done. Let's hope they can expand production in future. Well done to them.
I can understand and admire the concept as a engineering excersise, but if it's also a commercial one then the end product needs to appeal too, which I don't think it does. It's only USP is the made in England thing. The movement manufacture was the hard bit to do, a decent looking ( solid silver ? ) English made case, dial and hands should have been the easy bit.
Looking at it some more, the case is just too chunky and inelegant, the dial and hands ar'nt too bad.
Last edited by JasonM; 1st November 2016 at 16:35.
Pricing and quality apart, it breaks my very first rule of watch appreciation, ie you have to like the look of it.
F.T.F.A.
That one, and the other one, on the opposite side, look to be pretty much identical, so I’d surmise they both are fully screwed down.
Last edited by PJ S; 1st November 2016 at 18:16. Reason: Note to self...'Manual movements don’t have rotors – you twat!'
If that's really true...then good on 'im i say.
I mean all the people who say it can't be done (and to be fair hasn't been done by some bigger concerns)...
One may or may not like the watch but that's true of every watch.
I'd need to see it but I still think this is an achievement and something that might herald further developments.
Expensive yes, marmite perhaps, but real and achieved certainly.
I'm no Brexiter...but I do like to support local work where I can, and I'd buy a Morgan before an Audi, and an Onoto before a Mont Blanc.
Possibly perverse but I'd just not rather be captain default so perhaps there is a market for them.
Anyway...I'm really pleased it does seem to be as advertised at least.
I'm not convinced that's a rotor weight and I don't think it's an automatic. I also don't think the second screw looks that well-seated either. Here's a higher resolution picture from Hodinkee.
And people moan about £1000 Christopher Wards...I'm not convinced that's a rotor weight and I don't think it's an automatic. I also don't think the second screw looks that well-seated either. Here's a higher resolution picture from Hodinkee.
I agree, that's NOT a rotor, but that screw was fitted by the Teaboy... in the dark... with his hands behind his back!
M.
At the price of this timepiece it's going to appeal to watch people like ourselves - somewhat knowledgeable and with an eye on resale value.beyond that it has to speak of quality and craftsmanship.compared to what is out there it does nothing of the above.the effort and cost it has taken to get all items manufactured in England is considerable and that is where a lot of money has gone.does it matter to people that much that it is 100% British? I think not.
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