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Thread: The unified Rolex in the window thread

  1. #1251

    The unified Rolex in the window thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalet View Post
    You’d think so. But my AD said it’s laughable the wait list they have for a Sub Date.

    It’s probably behind Daytona, Pepsi, Hulk, BLNR and Blue Skydweller but still v.rare now.
    It’s a pain. Rolex are right to protect their residual values, and I can see why they’d want to reduce relative supply if they forecast an economic slow-down/further success of the Apple Watch.

    I hope this is a temporary situation rather than the new normal...

  2. #1252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side of The Loon View Post
    It’s a pain. Rolex are right to protect their residual values, and I can see why they’d want to reduce relative supply if they forecast an economic slow-down/further success of the Apple Watch.

    I hope this is a temporary situation rather than the new normal...
    I was told by an AD in Hawaii last week that this is the new normal. Designed to protect loyal Rolex customers from the grey market prices. He said to me with a straight face and all sincerity that the only way to get one of the more desirable watches was to buy the ones they had in stock and 'earn the loyalty' of Rolex before they will consider adding you to a list of the desirable ones.

    Maybe one heavy handed sales tactic from a dumb AD, but either way... this whole thing is stupid.

    I've stopped looking at them now as a brand. They have disappeared inside themselves through a specific orifice.

  3. #1253
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side of The Loon View Post
    I didn’t want to start a dedicated thread because it would cause all the usual consternation, so thought this would be the best thread for a quick bit of advice...

    Does anyone have a view as to the average waiting time for a green Sub?

    I don’t have a purchase history with an AD, but I do own an older Sub and would not come across as a profiteer due to the sentimental reasons for purchase...

    Fool’s errand or? I realise that this isn’t a question which can be answered accurately, and that it depends on what happens with the market and availability.

    One thing I’ve read is to visit a non-London AD and be specific as to what you want, have the cash ready, etc - which all makes sense.
    Green sub? Forget it.

  4. #1254
    Master RJM25R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side of The Loon View Post

    Re: grey dealers, I like the current green Sub a lot, but think it’s worth about list, maybe a grand or so more...
    Wow

  5. #1255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side of The Loon View Post
    I didn’t want to start a dedicated thread because it would cause all the usual consternation, so thought this would be the best thread for a quick bit of advice...

    Does anyone have a view as to the average waiting time for a green Sub?

    I don’t have a purchase history with an AD, but I do own an older Sub and would not come across as a profiteer due to the sentimental reasons for purchase...

    Fool’s errand or? I realise that this isn’t a question which can be answered accurately, and that it depends on what happens with the market and availability.

    One thing I’ve read is to visit a non-London AD and be specific as to what you want, have the cash ready, etc - which all makes sense.
    I have been advised by my two local ADs that local customers are prioritised (after repeat customers of course), so focus on building a relationship with your nearest dealer. Visit rather than call.

    Unfortunately though, such will still unlikely get you a black sub, never mind a green one

  6. #1256
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    You won't get a regular Sub at £1k above list grey let alone a green one.

  7. #1257
    My AD has had more Daytonas than green subs in the last 12 months

  8. #1258

    The unified Rolex in the window thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Wow
    Long term, I think it will not be seen as being as special as the 16610LV. That was the first Submariner with green elements, and the last of the line of pre-ceramic Rolex Submariners. It was also the first and only Submariner that celebrates an anniversary.

    The cheaper 16610LVs are about equal in price to the grey price of the newer reference, if I’m not mistaken? I think that’s too much.

    I used to dislike the ceramic Submariners... I am coming round to their charms now, (indeed, I would like to buy one!) but I don’t think any of the current Sub references will be seen as especially desirable for collectors. Great watches, yes, but that’s not the same thing.

    If (and it could happen anytime from the next Basel) the Submariner is updated with slimmer lugs, the new movement, and maybe even red text on the dial, I think a fair chunk of the present demand will shift from the current Subs.

  9. #1259
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side of The Loon View Post
    If (and it could happen anytime from the next Basel) the Submariner is updated with slimmer lugs, the new movement, and maybe even red text on the dial, I think a fair chunk of the present demand will shift from the current Subs.
    I don't think demand shifts anywhere when a new hot Rolex is released. The demand is for that in addition to, not instead of.

  10. #1260
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    I don't think demand shifts anywhere when a new hot Rolex is released. The demand is for that in addition to, not instead of.
    Yep - the start of this was really noticeable around the release of the original green Sub.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  11. #1261

    The unified Rolex in the window thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    I don't think demand shifts anywhere when a new hot Rolex is released. The demand is for that in addition to, not instead of.
    I agree, unless the replacement is perceived as a straightforward upgrade (like the DeepSea).

    In this instance, I suspect that the new Sub will be seen as preferable to the current one by nearly all. Now, as there is still such a high demand for Subs, and given that the new one would likely not be any less difficult to buy, the prices won’t plummet. The current ones would still be desirable, just not in such high demand as before.

    Now, if there was no green Sub in the next generation, then the Hulk could increase in price further, because it might be seen as the last of the green Subs (for a while at least). Indeed, that could well happen, with the next-gen green Sub being released a few years into that generation’s product cycle.

    This could be a bit of a red herring... I like the 116610LV, but think that £12k+ is too steep. Remember, that there have been bubbles in modern Rolex prices too (Milgauss GV, Explorer Is in Japan). That having been said, they were reference-specific bubbles, rather than the current, worldwide shortage of steel sports models.

  12. #1262
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Look at the current Daytona Vs precious Daytona. That will be the same as new sub/old sub.

    Doesn't matter if a new sub is released tomorrow the reality is it won't get to the likes of you and me for at least 4-5 years. Not as bad as the Daytona, but still bad.

    I was waiting for a new sub until I had that realisation so bought when the call came in and wouldn't sell for a grand above what I paid as the chances of getting another so slim there's nothing to buy once sold (if sticking to the same brand/theme.

    Add to that the £ going further down the pan and the fact that the UK price is cheaper than most places and you may as well just get it done before today's grey price is tomorrow RRP. Or wait for the recession within the next 18 months and buy from someone with too much tied up in watches for closer to current retail.

    Just my 2p but do factor in that my 2p isn't worth the 1p of someone with actual knowledge.

  13. #1263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reapercushions View Post
    I was told by an AD in Hawaii last week that this is the new normal. Designed to protect loyal Rolex customers from the grey market prices. He said to me with a straight face and all sincerity that the only way to get one of the more desirable watches was to buy the ones they had in stock and 'earn the loyalty' of Rolex before they will consider adding you to a list of the desirable ones.

    Maybe one heavy handed sales tactic from a dumb AD, but either way... this whole thing is stupid.

    I've stopped looking at them now as a brand. They have disappeared inside themselves through a specific orifice.
    That’s cretinous. Buy some crap you don’t want to qualify to buy what you do?

    Fools and their money.

  14. #1264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side of The Loon View Post
    I agree, unless the replacement is perceived as a straightforward upgrade (like the DeepSea).

    In this instance, I suspect that the new Sub will be seen as preferable to the current one by nearly all. Now, as there is still such a high demand for Subs, and given that the new one would likely not be any less difficult to buy, the prices won’t plummet. The current ones would still be desirable, just not in such high demand as before.

    Now, if there was no green Sub in the next generation, then the Hulk could increase in price further, because it might be seen as the last of the green Subs (for a while at least). Indeed, that could well happen, with the next-gen green Sub being released a few years into that generation’s product cycle.

    This could be a bit of a red herring... I like the 116610LV, but think that £12k+ is too steep. Remember, that there have been bubbles in modern Rolex prices too (Milgauss GV, Explorer Is in Japan). That having been said, they were reference-specific bubbles, rather than the current, worldwide shortage of steel sports models.
    I've made your mistake before of trying to apply logic to this situation and been proven wrong at every turn.
    Just don't pay the crazy premium would be my advice or alternatively the Sub you have will have risen a lot if it is still original so could be used to soften the blow.

  15. #1265
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    Chatting to my AD I've got a pretty good rapport with them at the moment, the chap I deal with is a watch guy rather than a dealer guy so he loves chatting about stuff they don't sell if it's interesting etc, so I think I get facts from them.

    They told me they are all hard to get at the moment because each AD is getting drop fed. Got to remember it's a global market they need to satisfy, and you can find an AD in every major city in the world.

    In terms of waiting he says its complete pot luck that what you want arrives in the stock delivery, but in terms of scarcity it's the skydweller, black face Daytona, no date sub and gmt2's which are the watches he's getting asked about the most.

  16. #1266
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    I'm in Taipei and strolling along one boulevard popped into an AD that does Rolex as well as Lange, IWC etc and there is a Patek Ad next door. They have a Sub Date in stock now. Plus you get 6% Tax refund. They will also offer a discount of 15% on a DJ41. He said Taiwan market isn't like anywhere else and the most sought after pieces are the gold ones.

    No idea what it is called as every sign here is in chinese but here is where I am and it is directly opposite me if you are local or travelling through Taiwan



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  17. #1267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side of The Loon View Post
    It’s a pain. Rolex are right to protect their residual values, and I can see why they’d want to reduce relative supply if they forecast an economic slow-down/further success of the Apple Watch.

    I hope this is a temporary situation rather than the new normal...




    Can you explain your comment about Rolex protecting their residual values ?

    Why would they ?

  18. #1268
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster73 View Post
    Can you explain your comment about Rolex protecting their residual values ?

    Why would they ?
    I'd imagine because we are going to see a range of price hikes that the market will accept due to the residual values. Doesn't matter about the quality of the watch. By many measures the Omega SM300 (new model) is a better watch than a Rolex Sub date but if the Sub Date had RRP increased to £9k more people will be trying to buy that Sub at £9k RRP than the in many ways superior Omega at £3800. The harder it is to get something the more people will pay for it.

    I had a Patek 5167 and it is a decent enough watch but you'd need to be off your t*ts to think that's worth £20k more than an Omega Aqua Terra. It doesn't even hack and has a low power reserve. Fact is it's hard to get and therefore the wearer must be a super resourceful and special person to be bestowed with such a watch ergo price is high in line with demand. Rolex going down the same path. They won't get as exclusive as Patek but using handbag parlance where Patek is currently Hermes and Rolex is currently Louis Vuitton then Rolex can aim to become Chanel where you may be able to buy one at a price but you'll need to work for it. To buy a Hermes Birkin bag is like buying a Patek Nautilus - better be one of the big boys or don't bother asking.

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    Last edited by ryanb741; 27th August 2019 at 06:21.

  19. #1269
    I was last week in Poznan and was quite amazed by their selection of watches. Of course they didn’t had steel professional models, but I counted at least 40 DJ, OP and even some Cellini’s. There was also full gold sub, yachtmasters and I think a display of all current Tudor models including GMT and bronze ones. Snapped photo of outside display.

  20. #1270
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    More Taipei availability! Helps that there isn't a huge tourist market here. This was an AD not a grey btw.....

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  21. #1271
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    More Taipei availability! Helps that there isn't a huge tourist market here. This was an AD not a grey btw.....

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    I take it two of them are currently in your backpack?

  22. #1272
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    Not the best photo, but a stainless steel sky dweller white face in the shop window of wempe. Nuremberg Germany


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  23. #1273
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    They must be second hand ?


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  24. #1274
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinsella1 View Post
    They must be second hand ?


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    Brand new mate


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  25. #1275
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    I take it two of them are currently in your backpack?
    Ha! They wouldn't sell to non-Taiwanese resident and the reason that Daytona is stinking out the shop window is the white dial which is the colour of death in China. No idea why the Hulk is still there. Daytona was around £10k btw so just a smidge above UK RRP.

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  26. #1276
    Hard to tell from the pic but I’m sure that SD is WG as it looks like Roman numerals in the dial?

  27. #1277
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajw232 View Post
    Hard to tell from the pic but I’m sure that SD is WG as it looks like Roman numerals in the dial?
    My apologies that could be right. I can’t remember if it was Roman numerals or not. Would make sense why it hasn’t sold. Thought it was only ss with white face.


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  28. #1278
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Ha! They wouldn't sell to non-Taiwanese resident and the reason that Daytona is stinking out the shop window is the white dial which is the colour of death in China. No idea why the Hulk is still there. Daytona was around £10k btw so just a smidge above UK RRP.

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    I’m sure someone with your experience could have “shown them a way” that satisfies their criteria and leaves you with the two watches in your hand luggage for the flight home. ;-)


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  29. #1279
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NigeG View Post
    I’m sure someone with your experience could have “shown them a way” that satisfies their criteria and leaves you with the two watches in your hand luggage for the flight home. ;-)


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    Pretty sure the concierge at our Hotel is Taiwanese ;)

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  30. #1280
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Pretty sure the concierge at our Hotel is Taiwanese ;)

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    There you go


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  31. #1281
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    All of a sudden flights to Taipei are full !

  32. #1282
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Not quite as simple sadly. It now seems the Daytona needs to be purchased alongside something in gold. Not worth it. Re the Sub Hulk no idea but life is too short for this faff.

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  33. #1283
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Ha! They wouldn't sell to non-Taiwanese resident.
    Would a UK AD be able to openly and above board implement a UK-resident only sales rule?

    I suppose those that are putting only 'local customers' on lists are doing that in an even more precise fashion...

  34. #1284
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    My brother's just received Taiwanese residency

    Which AD is this?

  35. #1285
    Sorry to bother this thread again (tho the advice + discussion I got was very helpful)... is there a waiting list for the Milgauss? Has such a day arrived?

  36. #1286
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    Any guidance towards a new Explorer 214279 currently available in the North of England would be much appreciated! The AD local to me has now 'closed the waiting list' on this model (don't panic, not in UK!).

  37. #1287
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    Not near you but a couple of the London dealers have recently had them. I was waiting for one but my 114060 arrived so the piggy bank was empty.

    You'll have to go in and speak to some people I suspect.

  38. #1288
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    Don’t want to start a fresh thread but I just came back from Singapore and they had a BLNR (new one on jubilee), ceramic sub and ceramic daytona (black face) in a cabinet with a sign saying “these are for demonstration purposes only and not for sale”.

    They were working watches mind,m (I tried the daytona) not dummies set at 10 to 2 or suchlike, hang tag on the bracelet and so on. The assistant was rude and not intent on talking or explaining what it was about so I left but am now wondering if I missed a trick? (Saying that I only want the white face daytona anyhow so I’m not too upset).

    Anyone seen this before?

  39. #1289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side of The Loon View Post

    If (and it could happen anytime from the next Basel) the Submariner is updated with slimmer lugs, the new movement, and maybe even red text on the dial, I think a fair chunk of the present demand will shift from the current Subs.
    Shift from a watch that’s no longer available new to a watch that’s unobtainable new?

    I don’t think so.

    Demand for grey/used will go UP because people will no longer have the hope of “the list” they think they’re on to get a new one at list price.......

  40. #1290
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Don’t want to start a fresh thread but I just came back from Singapore and they had a BLNR (new one on jubilee), ceramic sub and ceramic daytona (black face) in a cabinet with a sign saying “these are for demonstration purposes only and not for sale”.

    They were working watches mind,m (I tried the daytona) not dummies set at 10 to 2 or suchlike, hang tag on the bracelet and so on. The assistant was rude and not intent on talking or explaining what it was about so I left but am now wondering if I missed a trick? (Saying that I only want the white face daytona anyhow so I’m not too upset).

    Anyone seen this before?
    Only explanation I can think of is they want to convince people ‘the list is real’ and encourage them to purchase other models/build up a relationship etc... or greys who bundle might just go in and say ‘how much do I have to purchase to get one of these?’

  41. #1291
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Don’t want to start a fresh thread but I just came back from Singapore and they had a BLNR (new one on jubilee), ceramic sub and ceramic daytona (black face) in a cabinet with a sign saying “these are for demonstration purposes only and not for sale”.

    They were working watches mind,m (I tried the daytona) not dummies set at 10 to 2 or suchlike, hang tag on the bracelet and so on. The assistant was rude and not intent on talking or explaining what it was about so I left but am now wondering if I missed a trick? (Saying that I only want the white face daytona anyhow so I’m not too upset).

    Anyone seen this before?
    This at Terminal 2 Changi Airport? If so I had the same 4 weeks ago but after a bit of chatting with the sales lady they were available for sale as long as you bought something vulgar and gold. So not worth it

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  42. #1292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side of The Loon View Post
    Sorry to bother this thread again (tho the advice + discussion I got was very helpful)... is there a waiting list for the Milgauss? Has such a day arrived?
    best suggestion is walk in and speak to as many dealers as you can , I actually got quoted 8+ years on a sea dweller (d blue) from one AD , bucherer have apparently closed their books , so its a case of calling around and walking in where possible.

  43. #1293
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    after a bit of chatting with the sales lady they were available for sale as long as you bought something vulgar and gold
    Good tactics, I might try this on SC, offer a desirable watch that i'll consider selling if you buy some of my unwanted crap first at silly prices.
    Last edited by murkeywaters; 29th August 2019 at 20:38.

  44. #1294
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    This at Terminal 2 Changi Airport? If so I had the same 4 weeks ago but after a bit of chatting with the sales lady they were available for sale as long as you bought something vulgar and gold. So not worth it

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    Terminal 1 but Gassan watches so I guess common to all terminals. Oh well, glad I didn’t waste the time.

  45. #1295
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Good tactics, I might try this on SC, offer a desirable watch, but to be considered you have to buy some of my unwanted crap first at silly prices.
    Flip flops!

  46. #1296
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Terminal 1 but Gassan watches so I guess common to all terminals. Oh well, glad I didn’t waste the time.
    I've experienced the same thing in the city centre back in May, but cant remember where exactly

  47. #1297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side of The Loon View Post
    Sorry to bother this thread again (tho the advice + discussion I got was very helpful)... is there a waiting list for the Milgauss? Has such a day arrived?
    Easily available

  48. #1298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalet View Post
    Easily available
    You would have thought so but I’ve been to Harrods today and they only had probably 25-30 watches for sale out of 8 cases. 75% of the cushions were empty.

  49. #1299
    Quote Originally Posted by Chalet View Post
    Easily available
    That’s good... I’ve always liked them but it’s not something I’d usually consider... for most of its history, a Milgauss waiting list would have been not strange, but surreal... such are times that the question has to be asked!

  50. #1300

    The unified Rolex in the window thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Shift from a watch that’s no longer available new to a watch that’s unobtainable new?

    I don’t think so.

    Demand for grey/used will go UP because people will no longer have the hope of “the list” they think they’re on to get a new one at list price.......
    Yes, I have been persuaded by one of the posts above which referenced the Daytona (116520/116500), which is a similar situation (desirable watch replaced by a more desirable one)... the 116520 prices have continued to rise with the Ceramic, but do seem to keep a few k behind.

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