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Thread: Does life ever get any easier?

  1. #1

    Does life ever get any easier?

    I'm not sure how to approach this thread, nor what I expect as an output, but here goes...

    A slight caveat, before I launch in, I appreciate that I am far better off than a LOT of people worldwide and shouldn't complain, first world problems 'n all - but we're all adults here, I hope it's taken as intended.

    To set the scene then:
    Mid/late 30's, 40k a year job in IT mgmt, 2 young kids, self employed wife, small detached house that's nearly mortgage free and a rental property that's about 50% LTV @ 100k.

    So why is life so hard?

    Financially, the wife brings in no money in her business, it's a lifestyle business, she runs my Mum's company (who's retired due to ill health) and the hope is that eventually she'll inherit the property. Childcare costs are crippling, I have one child in school and another in childcare, the costs are unreasonable. The rental property covers itself, rental income covers mortgage and maintenance. I have reduced my bills to as low as possible, I have no loans or finance, other than the mortgage, yet still, every month I am overdrawn. I have no savings, no retirement to speak of (I pay 4% salary contribution but have only done so for 3 years). Every month, we have no money, I have reduced my watch fund to 2 and sacrificed other hobbies, I did have a nice car but have realised I can no longer afford £500 tax and 25mpg, I now drive a small, cheap Citroen. I work hard, have a good work-life balance, with the ability to work from home when needed, my job is secure but dull. I yearn to move into a more lucrative and challenging role but haven't the time to train.

    Health-wise, I'd say I'm a mess. I am tired CONSTANTLY, I am overweight despite training (running, boxing, cycling), I'd put it down to poor diet and motivation. I am in pain all the time, I've been having physio for over a year with no results, I have been tested for everything under the sun with 'inconclusive' results. I have recently weened myself off painkillers and now just live with being in pain constantly, it's tiresome. I am an alcoholic, no other way to put it, I drink to relax and be able to sleep, I know it doesn't do my health or mental wellbeing any good, but I'm in a rut and it is my coping mechanism. I enjoy training, I box, I run, I cycle - seems less and less, recently, due to motivation. I have seen a counselor through work, he helped a bit but realistically wanted many more sessions, work only pays for 6 sessions and they were eaten up quickly and I cannot afford sessions myself.

    Family is difficult, my mum suffered a stroke 2 years ago and is bedridden, we decided to home-care for her, I live next door to her and help where I can, the costs of private care are crippling for my Dad, who seems to be working himself into an early grave. She has a good quality of life but has shown no improvement in 2 years. Due to us being next door, and providing family support, we don't want to move house, although the house we're in is too small for the 4 of us, we're finding space a real issue.

    I tend to ignore the good stuff in front of me. My kids are lovely and well rounded things, my son does excellently at school and my young daughter is a beautiful and happy little thing. I find motivation in charity work, I try and do 2 events a year for charity, I find them a real boost - recently I did a 40 mile bike ride and a 10k run, I struggled with both but raised a good amount of money. My only desire is to give my family a good life, I've discussed none of this with the wife, she'd understand but I wouldn't want to burden her - she merrily goes about her existence and I organise, pay for and manage everything.

    TL;DR? I'm in a rut, poor health, no money, no retirement - can't see a way through it all.

    No expectations, like I said, but does it ever get any easier? I feel middle-aged with no prospects. I know there are some very successful people in here and I don't want quick fixes, maybe just some advice? I fully expect some cries of MTFU too and that's what I keep telling myself!

  2. #2
    Craftsman
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    Sounds very familiar... There are a lot of us in the same boat (was discussing this with a few friends the other day). My quick fix is running, long runs (20k plus) seem to get all the cr@p out of my head. The hardest thing is opening up and accepting that its getting to you. I told the missus the other day who sat plugging away on her ipad and said "uhuh - what do you want me to do?"...

    Truth is, not many people can help you, you need to help yourself. I'm looking at a job change at the moment which may help a lot - working from home and better salary - but as we all know, its always a risk to change. Its your life, yes think of your kids first (dont we all) but you need to get time for yourself and where you want to be. If you can, try to take a few days off, or go away for a boys weekend with friends - just dont keep it all down because it'll end up eating away at you and before you know it, you'll hit serious depression.

  3. #3
    Master Wolfie's Avatar
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    It never is that easy...

    I have reached a stage in life where I'm reasonably content... but, not without its challenges!

    I'm not sure if there is a magic formula, but, having a reasonable perspective on things is is good one... many people suffer from status anxiety and aspire to the next thing as opposed to enjoying the best of what's in fron them... stop and take a breath!

    Changing habits can be so tricky, but, drinking and a reasonable diet when lacking motivation can be really tricky... but, it shouldn't stop you trying!

    Also, make time for yourself every now and then... if you can't serve yourself every now and then, then it becomes increasingly tricky to serve others

    Good luck...

  4. #4
    Probably not the best person in the world to offer advice, but after reading your post, I can think of the following things:

    1). You are lucky, you have a roof over your head and a loving family and that is worth more than Gold, trust me.
    2). Money is tight and your wife works in a business that brings in not income. I can see no reason to keep running a business that generates zero income, it is simply a waste of time and effort without reward. I would discuss this with your wife and suggest that maybe a part time job elsewhere to generate some additional cash which would maybe able to go towards a holiday, would be a great idea for the whole family to benefit from.
    3). With regards to your Mother, are their any charities locally who could maybe assist with care at home, anything that can take some of that workload away?
    4). Regarding your own health, you really need to look at your own issues and ultimately what the cause of these issues are. Sometimes certain types of exercise can make pain worse etc. It would be worth understanding more about the pains you have, when you get them etc. as I am sure there are some people on here who will be able to offer better advice on this aspect.

    Upshot is, you have options to work around these challenges. Sharing your thoughts and feelings is a good way to start things off and you can tackle them one at a time.

    Good luck and keep your chin up.

  5. #5
    Master
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    Although money isn't everything, it does make things easier. If you sort that out a lot of things will fall into place too. You;re not badly off in asset terms but cashflow seems to be a huge issue.


    The business your wife is running would have to be worth some serious cash for it to be worthwhile working many years for no profit in the hope she'll inherit some property associated with it. Either it must make money or she would be better off going somewhere that does.

    On the other side of the scales working in an unfulfilling job can drag you down, no matter how financially secure it makes you.


    Finding a business where your wife is actually controbuting financially and could allow you to find a more rewarding job paying slightly less and make you both happier.


    Just a suggestion, HTH

  6. #6
    some great advice coming -

    keep the sport up as it keeps your mood up - take up swimming too - its known to keep you out of slipping into a worser depression

    take vitamin D (helps your mood)

    I think you may have a thyroid problem immune system related - check this website out www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

    Try and sort out the drinking - I know it helps forget but its doing your health no favours and you need to keep your mood up to help your health recover...

    remember its ok to say no to things you are not superman and you seem to have a lot on your plate at the moment and work full time too

    As you say you're almost mortage free - a remortgage may be on the cards to help for a few years, but that would need your mrs to get an income too.

    I can read that you need to emigrate or relocate but you can't at the moment due to your situation with infirm relatives but look what thats doing to your health and your dad.
    Keep planning that change of life/job even if its a few years away - it will improve your mood and will take a lot of organising to do
    and my best bright ideas come to be when out on a long bike ride or swim....

    don't keep anything to yourself - come back here and rant away - its a good release -> helps healing the mind -> helps healing the body -> break the spiral that depression causes

  7. #7
    I've discussed none of this with the wife

    Appreciate you "don't want to burden her" but you're doing everything possible and your health is suffering. It'll be a bigger burden if you end up seriously ill. Or worse, and it does happen. Don't fall into that most pernicious of blokey traps, the family martyr. Please speak to your wife. It doesn't need to be a "burden" but some things need to change. I can't advise what, but you'd be better slowly working through that together, in my opinion.

    Paul

  8. #8
    Master
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    I admire your honesty. I was in a similar rut but I found getting the missus into a proper job that made money and replacing drink with medical canabis changed my life more than I could ever imagine. Now my "me time" is a priority in the house the same as the weekly shop.

  9. #9
    Master
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    The simple solution seem to me to have your wife assume the role of childcare provider. She brings in no money and you spend crippling amounts on childcare, surely this is the easiest fix?

    I appreciate that women who choose careers over childcare probably enjoy having a role outside of the house and deem their independence as very important but this is a luxurious position for those who can afford the childcare.

  10. #10
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    It sounds to me like you might have some form of depression. I speak only from personal experience not any medical background so may be quite wrong.

    If you do have depression then your ability to see things clearly and more importantly feel and enjoy things can get totally screwed up. You can also have many physical symptoms of the type you describe. Even my senses of taste and smell changed. No amount of kind reminders of how lucky you are really will change the way you feel. Logically you already know about all the good things in your life anyway.

    I'd say it's worth finding out if you do have a form of depression. Your GP is a good starting point - you just start with a normal 10 minute consultation the same as if you had backache, although NHS provision is notoriously variable it is getting better. Also look at the MIND website mind.org.uk

    Worth a check anyway before you start turning your life upside down.

    Feel free to PM if you want.

  11. #11
    The wife's business is a tricky one. Two things, it has huge sentimental importance to me, I grew up in there, my earliest memories are from there - it has been part of our family for 50 years+. Secondly, although it brings in no income now, the long term goal is to inherit the building, the building is big and holds quite a value - if my wife commits to running it, she will inherit it, that's the agreement.

    Plus, the hours she works fit well around childcare and school runs etc.

    Lastly, and importantly, she loves it there. She loves being her own boss.


    *Edit - lots of great comments coming in thick and fast, I'll try and respond to a few more now.
    Last edited by RickChard; 4th October 2016 at 11:05.

  12. #12
    Master
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    Sounds like you don't have it too bad at all. I talk to a lot of friends about similar things. I would give up my job tomorrow if I could think of one I'd enjoy doing.

  13. #13
    Master
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    Does life ever get any easier?

    Talk to your wife on these things.
    You don't need to tell everything immediately.
    And it's not about your wife to fix any of it but for you to be able to talk about things and unburden yourself.
    Last edited by EJL25; 4th October 2016 at 11:07.

  14. #14
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Two little ideas

    1 Happiness is a habit and can be trained. Make a little list of the things in life you are grateful for. Every morning, before the world starts giving you a kicking, literally read this list out loud. Healthy kids, roof over your head, etc. Cumulatively, this little exercise will build a small but firm sense of happiness in you.

    2 Each time you're going to have a drink, instead of diving in, have a little pause. When at home, have a cuppa first. When in the pub, get comfortable with your friends before ordering the drink. This will help you feel a little less beholden to it.

    Both of these worked for me in a real way.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Xantiagib View Post
    some great advice coming -

    keep the sport up as it keeps your mood up - take up swimming too - its known to keep you out of slipping into a worser depression

    take vitamin D (helps your mood)

    I think you may have a thyroid problem immune system related - check this website out www.stopthethyroidmadness.com
    Some interesting points here that I've looked into. The last 2 blood tests showed significant vitamin D deficiency and I've been taking a supplement now for 4-5 months, no improvement on anything, sadly. Also, the Doc has suggested a possible Thyroid issue but again, several blood tests have shown no result, I will have a nose through that link. Thank you.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    It sounds to me like you might have some form of depression. I speak only from personal experience not any medical background so may be quite wrong.

    If you do have depression then your ability to see things clearly and more importantly feel and enjoy things can get totally screwed up. You can also have many physical symptoms of the type you describe. Even my senses of taste and smell changed. No amount of kind reminders of how lucky you are really will change the way you feel. Logically you already know about all the good things in your life anyway.

    I'd say it's worth finding out if you do have a form of depression. Your GP is a good starting point - you just start with a normal 10 minute consultation the same as if you had backache, although NHS provision is notoriously variable it is getting better. Also look at the MIND website mind.org.uk

    Worth a check anyway before you start turning your life upside down.

    Feel free to PM if you want.

    I'll be brutally honest here (no reason not to be), depression terrifies me. I honestly think I am clinically depressed but it's not something I want to explore. As a teenager, I was prescribed Seroxat, I became addicted and it led to severe side-effects, including self harm. It took a long time to break that cycle and I am not comfortable exploring depression with my Doctor - rightly or wrongly.

  17. #17
    Master
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    Bloody Hell it was like reading my autobiography i love your honesty that is a great starting point, my kids are a little older but things dont get easier overnight.

    my advice would be cut alcohol down and keep exercising, be honest with nearest and dearest and seek help financial or medical whatever you think or is needed

    good luck i fully understand your predicament and enjoy your family that is what really matters

  18. #18
    You are almost exactly where I was 20 years ago.

    You're right to look at it NOW, rather than "hope it will get better".

    Alcohol is a depressant. It slowly eats away at you. As a top priority I'd say you need to address that straight away. It can be hard, but then your life won't change unless you change something.

    (Twenty years later I still get people asking "are you an alcoholic"? The answer is "I don't know, but it's much, much more complicated than that. It didn't make me feel well. I stopped drinking, and I felt better. I'm scared to start again because I don't want to feel like that again.")

    I think we all admire your openness, stick at it.

  19. #19
    Master wildheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    I'm not sure how to approach this thread, nor what I expect as an output, but here goes...

    A slight caveat, before I launch in, I appreciate that I am far better off than a LOT of people worldwide and shouldn't complain, first world problems 'n all - but we're all adults here, I hope it's taken as intended.

    To set the scene then:
    Mid/late 30's, 40k a year job in IT mgmt, 2 young kids, self employed wife, small detached house that's nearly mortgage free and a rental property that's about 50% LTV @ 100k.

    So why is life so hard?

    Financially, the wife brings in no money in her business, it's a lifestyle business, she runs my Mum's company (who's retired due to ill health) and the hope is that eventually she'll inherit the property. Childcare costs are crippling, I have one child in school and another in childcare, the costs are unreasonable. The rental property covers itself, rental income covers mortgage and maintenance. I have reduced my bills to as low as possible, I have no loans or finance, other than the mortgage, yet still, every month I am overdrawn. I have no savings, no retirement to speak of (I pay 4% salary contribution but have only done so for 3 years). Every month, we have no money, I have reduced my watch fund to 2 and sacrificed other hobbies, I did have a nice car but have realised I can no longer afford £500 tax and 25mpg, I now drive a small, cheap Citroen. I work hard, have a good work-life balance, with the ability to work from home when needed, my job is secure but dull. I yearn to move into a more lucrative and challenging role but haven't the time to train.

    Health-wise, I'd say I'm a mess. I am tired CONSTANTLY, I am overweight despite training (running, boxing, cycling), I'd put it down to poor diet and motivation. I am in pain all the time, I've been having physio for over a year with no results, I have been tested for everything under the sun with 'inconclusive' results. I have recently weened myself off painkillers and now just live with being in pain constantly, it's tiresome. I am an alcoholic, no other way to put it, I drink to relax and be able to sleep, I know it doesn't do my health or mental wellbeing any good, but I'm in a rut and it is my coping mechanism. I enjoy training, I box, I run, I cycle - seems less and less, recently, due to motivation. I have seen a counselor through work, he helped a bit but realistically wanted many more sessions, work only pays for 6 sessions and they were eaten up quickly and I cannot afford sessions myself.

    Family is difficult, my mum suffered a stroke 2 years ago and is bedridden, we decided to home-care for her, I live next door to her and help where I can, the costs of private care are crippling for my Dad, who seems to be working himself into an early grave. She has a good quality of life but has shown no improvement in 2 years. Due to us being next door, and providing family support, we don't want to move house, although the house we're in is too small for the 4 of us, we're finding space a real issue.

    I tend to ignore the good stuff in front of me. My kids are lovely and well rounded things, my son does excellently at school and my young daughter is a beautiful and happy little thing. I find motivation in charity work, I try and do 2 events a year for charity, I find them a real boost - recently I did a 40 mile bike ride and a 10k run, I struggled with both but raised a good amount of money. My only desire is to give my family a good life, I've discussed none of this with the wife, she'd understand but I wouldn't want to burden her - she merrily goes about her existence and I organise, pay for and manage everything.

    TL;DR? I'm in a rut, poor health, no money, no retirement - can't see a way through it all.

    No expectations, like I said, but does it ever get any easier? I feel middle-aged with no prospects. I know there are some very successful people in here and I don't want quick fixes, maybe just some advice? I fully expect some cries of MTFU too and that's what I keep telling myself!
    Rick…there is no easy road in life. My 58 years have taught me that.You have to accept ownership, take control, only you can influence your surroundings… you make the decisions.
    My life has been tough, and at times I question what has been the point. But I get up in the morning with the intension of making the planet a nicer place to live and enjoying being on it while I’m here.

    Experiment, change your regime, do something challenging. Volunteering is a great way of exposing yourself to others situations and making you feel better about your own.
    I have major stuff I am dealing with at the moment; I am fighting hard to hold the line. But this is my challenge and one I intend to see through.
    Focus on the things that make you happy and build on them.
    I wish you luck and happiness.

  20. #20
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    I advocate for a MH unit, try making an appointment with Mind or similar organisation just print off the post and read from that at your appointment.

    I see loads of people like you just tredding water help is out there you need to find some way to reboot.

  21. #21
    Master
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    Well done for being so open mate, even this thread is a step towards confronting the issues.

    A few things that jump out to me are these...

    1) Drinking is not helping you sleep, getting to the root cause of why you are not sleeping is something you must explore. The fact that you are having physio with no results points to what a few others have suggested, that you could be suffering from some form of depression. I have knowledge of this from a physio I know who sees it regularly. It's probably not the physio's job to discuss this with you, but I bet they have already considered it.

    2) Exercise is good. If you are able to run, try that. I have friends with similar issues around depression, and running helps them all to this day. You don't have to do marathons, but 5k+ is a good starting point.

    On the face of it, your financial situation don't sound too bad, is there any other short term cuts you can make to help the situation?

    If the mortgage on your own house could be cleared by selling the rental property, that would be what I would personally do. It will take the financial pressure off for now, and give you time to deal with your issues. Once you get yourself back on track there's plenty of time to buy another property.

    I can see your point re: your wife, and if it helps family life working as she does now I'd tend to leave that alone. Yes, extra income would be nice, but the bigger picture has to be considered. I would speak with her though.

    Step one for me would be to speak to your GP, and be honest with him/her

    Honestly, and I really mean this, I think your problems on the face of it are short-term. I personally know half a dozen mates that are in much worse positions financially than you are.
    Last edited by demonloop; 4th October 2016 at 11:31.

  22. #22
    Craftsman
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    I had a whole page written out but released its all subjective as is everyone else's coping mechanisms.

    As has been said try focus on the positives and try and train yourself to be happy, create structure in your life that gives you pleasure, cut down on the booze and use the money to do something positive with your kids, try make it a physical activity and you'll have the added bonus of getting fitter.

    I dont mean any of this to sound harsh or forthright but I believe that happiness it a hard thing to achieve and it has to be worked on. Happiness isnt a watch on your wrist or a car in your drive way Im sure you understand this. So try enjoy the good and tackle the bad, we only get one go around at this. Really hope you find the answers your looking for.

  23. #23
    On the does it ever get easier question...



    Paul

  24. #24
    Master village's Avatar
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    Firstly,chin up....focus on your kids and wife. Loads of good advice already but I would say:

    1. Talk to your wife. Bottling it all in doesn't help in the long run.
    2. Wife's non profit business...I understand the explanation....if you will inherit the business/property in the not too distant future and it has value,look at it as a retirement investment.
    3. You say you are an alcoholic...you have to sort that out. Bonus is you admit it but the hard part is kicking it. Go to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting asap.

    Good luck.

  25. #25
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Life is basically shit for most people.
    op, you need to look after yourself and you need to talk to the Mrs.

    You sound like you are doing pretty well actually - you are aware of the issues that you want to address

    What you don't sound like is that you are brushing life's manure under the carpet which is what most people do

    We all too often get presented with a skewed view of life on the forum (everything's great. I've got a 911. where can I get the new shiny bauble etc etc etc) . Thanks for the wake up call. Good luck. You are not alone. Best wishes Dave
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    I'll be brutally honest here (no reason not to be), depression terrifies me. I honestly think I am clinically depressed but it's not something I want to explore. As a teenager, I was prescribed Seroxat, I became addicted and it led to severe side-effects, including self harm. It took a long time to break that cycle and I am not comfortable exploring depression with my Doctor - rightly or wrongly.
    you just need a second and third opinion from another doctor / different set of tests -

    the problem with having an underactive thyroid (and it can happen and not show up in regular 'blood tests' )
    is that it means you run on adrenaline most of the time and that will lead to adrenal fatigue and you guessed it that in turn leads tolow vitamin D, low Iron/ferritin levels, and that gives you pains/stiffness in all sorts of places. and getting up in the morning becomes difficult - then the doctors give you antidepressants which is the worst thing that can happen - which thankfully in a way you've had previous experience of... [medical cannabis may help here instead]

    I take vitamin D suppliments when I find I'm getting stiffness muscularly and when I find I've been short tempered with the wife or kids, or when I feel like crying for no reason getting all emotional over nothing for example.
    music is a great therapy when I havent listened to my tunes for a few days it makes me all irritable and although sounds silly I find playing with lego with the kids very therapeutic

  27. #27
    Master
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    Some great advice above.

    Just one thought to add that's not been mentioned. Would seeing alcohol as money almost literally down the drain help? By that I mean you are spending money on something you can't afford and is affecting your goals elsewhere i.e the huge calories in alcohol is affecting your attempts to improve your health. Tot up how much you spend on alcohol per week and roll that up to a year.

    Do any of your friends know you are an alcoholic? If so they can support you if they are good friends.

    I would suggest you start attending AA meetings, you've done the hard part of admitting you're an alcoholic.

    Running a non-profitable business just to inherit the building is crazy. How about renting out the shop/unit to another business and then the family business becomes simply that of landlord to the shop/unit. The building then makes some money and stays in the family, your wife can do some of the childcare and perhaps get part-time work elsewhere for her own sanity.

    Also if the building is worth a substantial amount has the family taken tax planning advice, it would be a shame to have to sell the building to pay the inheritance tax having worked for nothing in it for years e.g. it could be put in trust for your children and the rental income is what it provides to the family.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ViperStripes View Post
    Some great advice above.

    Just one thought to add that's not been mentioned. Would seeing alcohol as money almost literally down the drain help? By that I mean you are spending money on something you can't afford and is affecting your goals elsewhere i.e the huge calories in alcohol is affecting your attempts to improve your health. Tot up how much you spend on alcohol per week and roll that up to a year.

    Do any of your friends know you are an alcoholic? If so they can support you if they are good friends.

    I would suggest you start attending AA meetings, you've done the hard part of admitting you're an alcoholic.

    Running a non-profitable business just to inherit the building is crazy. How about renting out the shop/unit to another business and then the family business becomes simply that of landlord to the shop/unit. The building then makes some money and stays in the family, your wife can do some of the childcare and perhaps get part-time work elsewhere for her own sanity.

    Also if the building is worth a substantial amount has the family taken tax planning advice, it would be a shame to have to sell the building to pay the inheritance tax having worked for nothing in it for years e.g. it could be put in trust for your children and the rental income is what it provides to the family.

    Totally up the spend on alcohol would be sobering, no pun intended. I think it's a primary thing to focus on, it will help financially and mentally. This is top of the list to tackle.

    I hear what you are saying re: the wife's business - it's a tough one to tackle. The business is a photographic studio and it is not only the premises, but the studio too, it's the longest standing small business in my town, has a great reputation and has been traded as such, by my family as long as I've been alive. We haven't taken tax planning advice and I'm aware of inheritance tax implications, also not easy to tackle as it's in my Mum's name and with her ill health, it's not easy to manage.


    Thank you again for all the supportive comments, advice and PM's.

  29. #29
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    I'll be brutally honest here (no reason not to be), depression terrifies me. I honestly think I am clinically depressed but it's not something I want to explore. As a teenager, I was prescribed Seroxat, I became addicted and it led to severe side-effects, including self harm. It took a long time to break that cycle and I am not comfortable exploring depression with my Doctor - rightly or wrongly.
    You've done the first thing that's important, admit you have a problem, now you need to talk to the people that can help you the best.
    If you believe you have a drink problem then get help, if you think you're depressed, again, get help.
    It's absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, life is tough for most people, ( if they care to admit it ), some cope, others need a little help.
    Treatments have changed over the years for depression, as have the tablets, we've just gone through this with my brother in law after his marriage broke up, he was very sceptical about taking medication, but he soon realised that he needed help, ( and after a few weeks he was a different person ).
    I would say your doctor has to be the one to see first of all, but, as has been said already, talk to your wife as well, and any true friends you might have, it sometimes helps to get a neutral perspective.
    As for you financial situation, as long as you can cope for now then I'd get better mentally, and physically before making any decisions.
    Best of luck pal, be strong.

  30. #30
    I'm not great advising on the softer issues, but financially you could move yourself into a great position.

    £40k = £2,500 per month. Tough choice but your wife has to look after the kids or get an income. Her job is costing you as a family, as she has no income and yet still pay crippling childcare costs.

    Childcare costs disappear relatively quickly when the kids start at school full time, so you'll soon be reaping the benefit of that. Your wife needs to use her time more wisely and bring in an income when the kids are at school. Bringing in an extra £800 pm would leave you with a family disposal income of £3,300 pm and no childcare costs when the kids are at school.

    What a fantastic position that would be when you have no mortgage. Use the extra money for the nicer things in life - weekends out/holidays etc.

    You are only a stones throw from being in a great financial position, which may then have knock on support to help your health/happiness.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post

    I hear what you are saying re: the wife's business - it's a tough one to tackle. The business is a photographic studio and it is not only the premises, but the studio too, it's the longest standing small business in my town, has a great reputation and has been traded as such, by my family as long as I've been alive. We haven't taken tax planning advice and I'm aware of inheritance tax implications, also not easy to tackle as it's in my Mum's name and with her ill health, it's not easy to manage.

    Can you find a photographer that would want to rent/lease the studio and the rights to the business name. You are then keeping the name alive, you haven't sold the business but your wife doesn't have to manage it day to day. Much like hairdressers often rent out a chair in a salon. Can you find multiple photographers that want to rent the space e.g. different photographers different days of the week? They get all the benefits of the setup and equipment without the capital cost. I'm not a photographer so don't know if that would even work. Sorry to focus on the wifes business but that seems to be the big drain on the family finances indirectly because of the childcare.

    Other ideas for the photography business off the top of my head:
    1) Renting out photobooths for parties/weddings etc, a booming business apparently for the selfie generation
    2) What else can the space be used for? Photography course in the evenings? Run by other photographers, just rent the space out.
    3) Put up prices - if it's got a good reputation, small increase every 6 months
    4) Encourage wife to read books like emyth that will show her ways to increase revenue e.g. improve the average sale value e.g. if average sale value is say £100, then put a special offer that only kicks in if you spend £125, when average his £125 then change special offer to something different but have it kick in at £150 etc etc.
    5) Switch into a photography franchise like Venture https://www.venturephotography.com/ let them do all the marketing, training, upselling, does mean you have to give up your local brand though.
    6) Does the building have any unused space that could be put to use?
    7) Get your car and the wifes car if not already fully wrapped advertising the business, cost to wrap would be more than offset by making it a tax deductible expense, though run the numbers past an accountant for your situation)

    Perhaps the photography business is something you can throw yourself into evenings/weekends to give you something to focus on, it might even become profitable enough for you to quit your job and run the business with your wife.
    Last edited by ViperStripes; 4th October 2016 at 12:27.

  32. #32
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    Sorry, can't abide self pity.........

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xantiagib View Post
    some great advice coming -
    I agree with the lot.
    Get your system in order; eat healthy, get fit, think positive.

    Money wise there is always gains at the spending side. The path of consumerism we are led on has many small drains adding up.

    Lots of fun thongs to do that make one feel good are for free. Sex is a particularly cool one as it is good for everything, even for a more positive outlook on things. MAKE the quality time!

    Happiness is for the largest part a state of mind; thus something YOU influence

    Take rain. Can 'make' you feel miserable but there are so many wonderful sensations to go with it and if you get wet; it's only water. Just change your pov. Fill up your glass half full.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluetorric View Post
    Sorry, can't abide self pity.........
    Disgraceful, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

    When someone asks for help, you don't judge them.

    You are an absolute embarrassment of a human being.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    Totally up the spend on alcohol would be sobering, no pun intended. I think it's a primary thing to focus on, it will help financially and mentally. This is top of the list to tackle.

    I hear what you are saying re: the wife's business - it's a tough one to tackle. The business is a photographic studio and it is not only the premises, but the studio too, it's the longest standing small business in my town, has a great reputation and has been traded as such, by my family as long as I've been alive. We haven't taken tax planning advice and I'm aware of inheritance tax implications, also not easy to tackle as it's in my Mum's name and with her ill health, it's not easy to manage.
    Honestly you don't seem to have it too bad, despite how you feel. Life probably wont get easier, but coping or learning to enjoy the challenge might be the key to making life feel easier.

    When the kids are in bed try focussing on how to make your wife's business profitable, you're a smart guy with IT skills so there's no doubt you can help drive it forward.

    Is there anyway you could push forward the inheritance, given your mum's poor health would it be worth asking if she's willing to sign over the business sooner rather than later. Parents want what's best for their kids, so tell yours how you feel.

    Keep talking, swim more, drink less and take a holiday.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Disgraceful, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

    When someone asks for help, you don't judge them.

    You are an absolute embarrassment of a human being.
    Well you have judged me however incorrectly.

    Overweight, Alcoholic,...... No money ?

    I help people who need it.............

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluetorric View Post
    Well you have judged me however incorrectly.

    Overweight, Alcoholic,...... No money ?

    I help people who need it.............
    My judgement on you is based on your ridiculous statement, and I'd say it's pretty accurate.

    Are you now honestly saying someone with a mental health issue shouldn't be helped?

    I'd stop digging now if I were you; you're showing yourself to be an even bigger embarrassment than before.

  38. #38
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    Hi RickChard,

    There's been some excellent advice here particularly from #4 langdalematt. The priorities are your health, roof over your head, and family...not in any order.
    Selling your rented house is a good recommendation and putting that money towards your family home and maybe a holiday. Health? see your Doctor, I would try to cut down on alcohol yourself before going to AAA.... set a goal so that the money saved can go towards family/savings e.g. whatever your current spend is on alcohol, aim to take 25% off each month... write it down as a goal. These little goals 'achieved' will in themselves make you feel better. Smack a newspaper against a wall!! get some anger out and instill some self discipline tell yourself, " I can do this!".

    Diet.... (if it applies) cut down on bought meals high in preservatives or any food high in preservatives. They make you fat and sluggish. Myself and the better half make much of our own food now, cutting out a lot of crap. Porridge for breakfast is cheap and healthy. Use real butter and full fat milk. Eat plenty of fresh vegetables and fruit. Take a fish oil tablet in the morning with your breakfast.

    Saving some money?.... we shopped at Sainsbury once, the average bill was £58 we now shop at Aldi now it's down to £30'ish and we eat just as well.(2 of us).

    I hope things will get better for you soon.... keep in touch with us. I remember Wildheart on here went through a lot of problems with family shit and I'm sure we all helped him through it... so can you too we hope.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    My judgement on you is based on your ridiculous statement, and I'd say it's pretty accurate.

    Are you now honestly saying someone with a mental health issue shouldn't be helped?

    I'd stop digging now if I were you; you're showing yourself to be an even bigger embarrassment than before.
    Your judgment of me is obviously based on ignorance.......

    A lot of people have real problems,
    No work,
    Real poverty,
    Health problems,
    No money,

    No matter how they try they cannot escape the vicious circle.

    So excuse me for not feeling sorry someone who owns 2 houses, lovely family.
    then bleats about it on the internet, if you have a problem go see a professional.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluetorric View Post
    Your judgment of me is obviously based on ignorance.......

    A lot of people have real problems,
    No work,
    Real poverty,
    Health problems,
    No money,

    No matter how they try they cannot escape the vicious circle.

    So excuse me for not feeling sorry someone who owns 2 houses, lovely family.
    then bleats about it on the internet, if you have a problem go see a professional.
    This will be my last reply to you. You'll be on ignore after this.

    I have a friend who suffers from depression. He has a nice house, a lovely wife and a young child. Two good jobs, plenty of friends.

    But he suffers from depression.

    Are you really saying that the next time he gets a bout of depression that I should walk away from him, or tell him there's other people with 'real problems'?

    If you can't see how ridiculous that view-point is, than I don't think anything I can say will do much good here.

    To be honest, I only quoted your first post as I thought 'He'll edit that sharpish' The fact you're standing over it, I find unbelievable.

    I hope that depression never darkens your door, or the door of anyone close to you.

    This has to go down as one of the low points in this forum's history.

  41. #41
    There are a lot of issues there, but it seems to me that an extra £20,000 a year or so coming in would go a long way to ease the pressure. You have a business which at the moment doesn't make any money and you seem to be accepting that as a given. I've seen a lot of long established businesses that are locked into a "this is what we do and this is how we do it" mentality, and as a result, fade away. It seems like your business has property, assets and an excellent reputation. Is it beyond possibility that there are ways this could be turned into an extra £20,000 or so profit? It doesn't seem too tall an order looking from the outside.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    This will be my last reply to you. You'll be on ignore after this.

    I have a friend who suffers from depression. He has a nice house, a lovely wife and a young child. Two good jobs, plenty of friends.

    But he suffers from depression.

    Are you really saying that the next time he gets a bout of depression that I should walk away from him, or tell him there's other people with 'real problems'?

    If you can't see how ridiculous that view-point is, than I don't think anything I can say will do much good here.

    To be honest, I only quoted your first post as I thought 'He'll edit that sharpish' The fact you're standing over it, I find unbelievable.

    I hope that depression never darkens your door, or the door of anyone close to you.

    This has to go down as one of the low points in this forum's history.
    My point is, An internet forum is no place discuss a serious problem no matter how well meaning a lot of amateurs are.
    Go see a professional

  43. #43
    I think this is pretty much peak tough times for you, OP. Talking about it - even to us lot - has to be a good thing, but a trip to the GP might not be a bad call.

    But most of us, me included, have been through most of this. Probably no huge comfort, however. But you are doing what most of us would regard as 'the right thing', and taking care of your family. And you get huge kudos from me for that.

    Loads of practical advice above, and maybe sit down with SWMBO and work out a bit of a plan for the next ten years. Where would you like to be (in every sense) when the kids fly the nest?

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluetorric View Post
    My point is, An internet forum is no place discuss a serious problem no matter how well meaning a lot of amateurs are.
    Go see a professional

    I see your point but I have visited professionals, multiple times, both for mental and physical support - with limited success. The use of the forum was not to garner pity but to get anecdotal advice from adults, which in this instance has gotten me a lot of useful support and suggestions.

    Also, I appreciate my issues are minor comparative to some real issues out in the world.

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    I'm not sure how to approach this thread, nor what I expect as an output, but here goes...

    A slight caveat, before I launch in, I appreciate that I am far better off than a LOT of people worldwide and shouldn't complain, first world problems 'n all - but we're all adults here, I hope it's taken as intended.

    It might sounds harsh to say it but you are right these are first world problems, compared to a lot of people you are far better off, however that doesn't make your problems lesser to you.

    To set the scene then:
    Mid/late 30's, 40k a year job in IT mgmt, 2 young kids, self employed wife, small detached house that's nearly mortgage free and a rental property that's about 50% LTV @ 100k.

    All the above sounds pretty cool, just re-read the above now and then and think about the positives.

    So why is life so hard?

    Financially, the wife brings in no money in her business, it's a lifestyle business, she runs my Mum's company (who's retired due to ill health) and the hope is that eventually she'll inherit the property. Childcare costs are crippling, I have one child in school and another in childcare, the costs are unreasonable. The rental property covers itself, rental income covers mortgage and maintenance. I have reduced my bills to as low as possible, I have no loans or finance, other than the mortgage, yet still, every month I am overdrawn. I have no savings, no retirement to speak of (I pay 4% salary contribution but have only done so for 3 years). Every month, we have no money, I have reduced my watch fund to 2 and sacrificed other hobbies, I did have a nice car but have realised I can no longer afford £500 tax and 25mpg, I now drive a small, cheap Citroen. I work hard, have a good work-life balance, with the ability to work from home when needed, my job is secure but dull. I yearn to move into a more lucrative and challenging role but haven't the time to train.

    You provide your own solution to your finance problem above, either spk to your wife about getting a job (and lose the potential business inheritance) that pays or accept that your expenses for child care are a form of investment for when you will inherit the business and it's value.

    Health-wise, I'd say I'm a mess. I am tired CONSTANTLY, I am overweight despite training (running, boxing, cycling), I'd put it down to poor diet and motivation. I am in pain all the time, I've been having physio for over a year with no results, I have been tested for everything under the sun with 'inconclusive' results. I have recently weened myself off painkillers and now just live with being in pain constantly, it's tiresome. I am an alcoholic, no other way to put it, I drink to relax and be able to sleep, I know it doesn't do my health or mental wellbeing any good, but I'm in a rut and it is my coping mechanism. I enjoy training, I box, I run, I cycle - seems less and less, recently, due to motivation. I have seen a counselor through work, he helped a bit but realistically wanted many more sessions, work only pays for 6 sessions and they were eaten up quickly and I cannot afford sessions myself.

    My brother is an alcoholic, though he won't admit it, he's been hospitalised three times as a result and can not function without another adult being with him 24/7 as he will just get completely drunk, I am talking drinking himself into unconsciousness. You are not at that stage, you have admit your problem which is the first step to stopping or getting the problem under control. AA is often forgotten but it is very effective if you want to stop drinking, think of the financial benefit in the short term and the physical benefit in the long term. I believe, though I have no medical qualification you would also benefit from spk'ing to your GP about depression and whilst I understand your fears you need to confront your general mental well being.

    Family is difficult, my mum suffered a stroke 2 years ago and is bedridden, we decided to home-care for her, I live next door to her and help where I can, the costs of private care are crippling for my Dad, who seems to be working himself into an early grave. She has a good quality of life but has shown no improvement in 2 years. Due to us being next door, and providing family support, we don't want to move house, although the house we're in is too small for the 4 of us, we're finding space a real issue.

    Families and elderly relatives are often difficult, it is much the same for many, I am afraid on this one I have to think you need to struggle on.

    I tend to ignore the good stuff in front of me. My kids are lovely and well rounded things, my son does excellently at school and my young daughter is a beautiful and happy little thing. I find motivation in charity work, I try and do 2 events a year for charity, I find them a real boost - recently I did a 40 mile bike ride and a 10k run, I struggled with both but raised a good amount of money. My only desire is to give my family a good life, I've discussed none of this with the wife, she'd understand but I wouldn't want to burden her - she merrily goes about her existence and I organise, pay for and manage everything.

    Please read the paragraph above repeatedly. If you won't spk to a doctor, or relatives, or friends try websites that encourage positive thinking such as http://www.thebookoflife.org it's an example. I am not saying it is completely suitable or that it it will even help but it's worth a look isn't it?. If you keep telling yourself things are shite, they will be.


    TL;DR? I'm in a rut, poor health, no money, no retirement - can't see a way through it all.

    There is always a way it's just finding the right one for you and yours.

    No expectations, like I said, but does it ever get any easier? I feel middle-aged with no prospects. I know there are some very successful people in here and I don't want quick fixes, maybe just some advice? I fully expect some cries of MTFU too and that's what I keep telling myself!
    Hope things get easier for you.

  46. #46
    I'd suggest focussing on this aspect of your situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    The wife's business is a tricky one. Two things, it has huge sentimental importance to me, I grew up in there, my earliest memories are from there - it has been part of our family for 50 years+. Secondly, although it brings in no income now, the long term goal is to inherit the building, the building is big and holds quite a value - if my wife commits to running it, she will inherit it, that's the agreement.

    Plus, the hours she works fit well around childcare and school runs etc.

    Lastly, and importantly, she loves it there. She loves being her own boss.
    I would question the importance of sentimentality given your unhappiness. Moreover, it would seem that you would be selling it when it becomes yours, so perhaps it doesn't really hold huge sentimental importance. I would also question 'the hours she works fit well around childcare and school runs etc.' as that seems to me to be a error of priority i.e. put the children and their full-time care first.

    Sometimes in life you simply have to 'let things go' and I'm thinking the business might be one of those.

    Just my 2 pence.
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluetorric View Post
    Sorry, can't abide self pity.........
    Speaking of getting help from professionals, have you thought about therapy to find out what's behind your need to insult the suffering? It's never too late to sort these things out

  48. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluetorric View Post
    My point is, An internet forum is no place discuss a serious problem no matter how well meaning a lot of amateurs are.
    Go see a professional
    A problem shared is a problem halved. Stop being so black and white.

  49. #49
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    I read the OP and for the first 1/2 thought, blimey is the bloke really complaining?

    It sounds to me that your main issue is health - Focus on that and I suspect everything else will seem a lot less of a burden (A lot READS like a blessing, to be honest!)

    I loved being in my 30s, it was a time of few worries for me, but I didn't have the luxury of a second property (not suggesting it needs to go, if it pays for itself, it's your retirement, isn't it?), but equally my parents were in good health and, sadly, that's now become a worry at an age when, with the kids out at work, I'd hoped to be able to relax and enjoy some time for myself.

    It doesn't get easier, it's how you deal with it that can change, but if you're suffering from pain and/or ill health, that will sap your energy to deal with things.

    Demonloop's remark about depression rang true with me too. At face value you have relatively little to worry about, certainly nothing that unusual and yet you only see darkness... For that, you might well need some help and/or counselling. I have a friend (really, it wasn't me, thank goodness!) who had a very bleak time in her life, she was (and is) a bright, attractive, personable woman in a well paid, responsible,challenging job, lives in a lovely house, has a lovely daughter, but she was utterly miserable and could only see the bad things in life.

    She undertook some counselling and things improved for her considerably, but they probably won't just GET better for you if you are suffering from depression, like a cold passes.

    Good luck!

    M.
    Last edited by snowman; 4th October 2016 at 14:32.

  50. #50
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    Having read through this at length I can see that there's been some great advice.

    I've nothing really to add except that I'd leave the wife's business issue for another day and focus on the drinking.

    Cutting down will be beneficial both health wise and financially. Coupled with a change to a more healthy diet, it will definitely improve things.

    You do seem to have some mental health issues (absolutely nothing to be ashamed about) which may need to be addressed soon. Remember alcohol is a depressant so once you're free from drinking it may not be a problem.

    Financially, I wouldn't do anything you don't absolutely have to yet and I certainly wouldn't consider selling the BTL if it's not a financial burden.

    I wish you well and most of us are happy to offer whatever advice you feel you may need.

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