Utter, mindless comment - who are you to judge?Originally Posted by Bluetorric
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
A thoughtless person, presumably...
Sadly, the world's made up of people who think others should just 'pull themselves together' because they've never experienced the misery of depression.
If it was as easy as that, they would! It is, though, in minor defence of his comment (not really worthy of defence) far from an uncommon view...
M
Last edited by snowman; 4th October 2016 at 14:38.
Loads of good advice here, so I won't repeat it. Dave's post brought up one less addressed point.
I suggest that you leave all social media for a while, or use it as little as you possibly can. A fairly simple and concrete step that won't harm you in any way. No-one's life is as peachy as their facebook or Instagram might lead you to believe. If you feel like your life is difficult, it will not help you to place yourself in a situation where you will inevitably compare your life to the glorified image of others'.
You will get over this if you have the cojones to face your issues. Posting here proves your cojones are huge and hairy, so I believe you'll make it. Good luck!
-Antti
Suicide is the biggest killer of men under 45.
In 2014, 4623 men took their own life. That's 12 men everyday or one every two hours.
41% of men who contemplated suicide felt they couldn't talk about their feelings
I suggest you think about that before making any more Ill judged comments
Sorry to hear you have had bad experiences with mental health professionals before. It may be worth trying once more. Advice and treatments have changed a lot in the last 20 years. For instance, Seroxat, that you mentioned you were prescribed when young, has been found more recently not to be effective in treating adolescent depression. Conditions like OCD are understood much better now. So you might get some more useful help this time.
In any event, there is lots of good advice and support for you here about practical changes you can make. I just think that, based on my experience, as long as you feel that a 'solution' exists if only you can figure out the money, your wife's business etc., that happiness will always feel just out of reach. You are a good person in your own right who deserves to be happy, regardless of whether you can sort these other things out or not.
Best of luck anyway.
Swap the roles of me and my Mrs (she earns £38k and I'm not drawing a wage from my business) and swap drinking for gambling (I used to be a nightmare for the bookies machines) and we could share the same story.
Healthy, happy kids are the main thing, they are what get me out of bed every morning (literally as well as figuratively).
Sounds like you have a decent job, you might feel you're in a dead-ender but £40k p/a isn't to be sniffed at just at the moment.
Your house is almost mortgage free, that's going to free up some decent dough every month when finally ticked-off, so there is light at the end of the tunnel there, plus you own a rental property which self-sustains and is an appreciating asset - one day in the future you're going to have an extra mortgage free property which you could liquidate for cash and stick £100k (just a figure plucked out of thin air) in the bank - there's your retirement.
I'm only 34 and I've felt the same way as you in the past. It's a slog but you can either accept that life isn't plain sailing and enjoy it now, or waste time wishing it away looking at a time when you'll be debt free and have a pile of disposable income.
Put it this way, imagine you're 100 years old and on your deathbed. You have a choice to go back to a point in your life... do you go back to being 60+ with grown up kids and a few quid in the bank, or go back to your 30's where life is a bit tougher but you're surrounded by family with limitless potential for the future?
The best thing I would suggest is to find a decent hobby but clearly you have one, we're on a bloody watch forum!
The exercise sounds good, the drinking doesn't. I dropped from well over 17 stone to just under 16 stone over a couple of months just by KO'ing beer and crisps.. maybe try it for a fortnight, I think you'd be surprised how quickly you see a difference. Cutting out the shite food might see your mood lift a bit as well - I'm no salad muncher but just stopping with the pies and crisps gave me loads more energy and perked me up no end.
Chin up fella.
My own view is that the acquisition of stuff rarely makes people really happy, I'd suggest you sell the BTL use the proceeds to tide you over till childcare costs subside. Best of luck with your situation
Don't try to fix everything at once. If you lay all your problems out, you won't address any of them as they'll seem too much to cope with.
Start with the drinking. It's poison to your mental, physical and financial health. Don't do it for you, do it for your kids. Your wife. Your mam and dad. The business.
Communicate - talk to your wife. She's your partner, best friend, co-conspirator... you can't do it on your own and she wouldn't want you to.
Loads of good practical advice above, and I think you've taken the first step by sharing. Good luck.
For what its worth.
1) Sort yourself out. Your general health should be your number one concern, because without that you will cause a drain on you relationship with your wife and your children - not withstanding you might die. Drink is a killer and most likely the cause of your weight issue. So cut down, better still give it up. A pint of beer is about 200 calories - this equates to about 3KM on a Rowing machine. Lose the weight and you will feel better about yourself and your mood will improve - trust me I know
2) Focus on your family - I accept the job is not great, money is tight, you hardly see you wife, etc, etc, but the time you spend with your family is more valuable than gold so value it.
3) Do not worry about the rest - that will sort itself out providing you do 1 and 2.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I bet your father is the same as you. Both martyrs for the family. That's what society expects us to do. You and loads more, all in the same boat. Trouble is, asking for help is too often seen as weakness, which is where the problem can sometimes lie. Hats off to you for having the balls to air this here, so I wish you luck as I think you have the balls to seek real help elsewhere.
A couple of quotes that I´ve found helpful to help me find balance and clarity, perhaps they will help you;
"Getting and spending we lay waste our powers"
"My wealth is measured not in the extent of my possessions but the absence of my wants"
"Most men lead lives of quiet desperation"
Three things which have helped me immensely are regular exercise, eating well- never processed if at all possible and sunshine.
To echo several other posters, you need to cut back on the booze...although I´m not one to claim any special success in that regard- I´m a daily drinker, have been for years but the diet, exercise and weather tend to act as a counterbalance, at least for now.
Best of luck to you.
Last edited by Passenger; 4th October 2016 at 18:18.
You are doing more than alright and have every reason to be proud of yourself.
The pain you describe makes everything harder, makes you weary. effects your temperament and likely makes you feel depressed.
Getting pain free is your top priority. Is there any possibility that the intense exercise you take is somehow an aggravating factor?
My wife swears by CBT based relaxation classes, maybe worth checking out as a first step.
Sorry Mate that's all I have.
Peter.
You planning to sell many watches here? Because I wouldn't buy anything off someone like you - even if you were selling a brand new rolex for £50.
But it's appropriate for your reply? I've been around here quite a long time and it is a community, one that doesn't need people like you.
Did your dr mention fibromyalgia?
No, but I'll mention it, I'll try anything to be in less discomfort. None of the pain is life changing, I'm still mobile and can train, but it is constant and pretty much everywhere.
Thanks all again for the advice. I'm having a day off work on Thursday, going to see the Doc, going to sit with the wife and look at a plan for the business and come up with some way to tackle the drink.
I really admire you for seeking help on here. So many men suffer from anxiety and depression and, as seikopath says, just sweep it under the carpet. I have had a lot of challenges recently and I'd make three suggestions:
1) Recognise that in order for your family to function and be happy, you need to be happy. You're not happy right now. If you breakdown then all the plans about the future may not be realised; it's very hard to come back. Talk to your wife about more active financial engagement in the problems of today. Write down and agree together what you are going to do from a fresh slate; take shared ownership on this. You can work something out, but you need to ensure you are getting at least some of the things you want out of life, rather than just being a provider. If you just provide and feel under strain to support others emotionally, with little in return, you may breakdown.
2) I know your work will only provide six counselling sessions. You can self refer to talking therapies. Have you considered this? Do you have a talking therapies alternative service available near you. Talk to your GP - talking therapies, workshops, group sessions or even medication will be considered. Involve a mental health professional to help you. That's what they are there for. You are seeking help because you need help.
3) The third one is a bit off the wall - but I'd recommend downloading MyFitnessPal. You've got weight, money and alcohol problems. Therefore use the progress targets in MyFitnessPal to help you lose weight. You can specify that you'd like to lose 0.x kg per week. If you write down what you eat it will actually give you something positive to focus on. You'll see progress. You'll need to cut down the "dead" calories in booze - I gave up drinking altogether as drinking, particularly binge drinking, really was damaging my mood levels, but that's up to you - and so MyFitnessPal will help you reduce your drinking and save money too. Plus focussing your energy on something positive will be great for your mood levels. Also if you manage to loose weight you'll enjoy your sport more as you will not have to heft around all the excess baggage.
Good luck - feel free to PM if you need more detail. I've been through a rough patch, but I'm OK now. I learned a lot on the way.
Best of luck!
I've read this post thoroughly as, like many other I'm sure, it resonates somewhat. Idiot aside, I'd say the advice here has been good.
Personally, I'd say the drinking is the first thing to get under control. I hope you realise how brave you have been to admit to being an alcoholic? Saying, (or writing) those words take some guts.
You'll find being booze free will let you deal with other stuff in a more ordered and proactive manner. You'll hopefully loose a bit of weight and maybe even find some of that pain subsides. Trouble is, if you get home and open a can, your brain stops working. That's no bad thing to be fair but if you've got stuff to do, it can be troublesome. Worse still will be the 'wasted' morning the following day when you feel a bit 'meh' and can't be arsed to deal with stuff again.
It might be worth substituting your usual tipple for a low alcohol version. From there, try alcohol free. It's not as bad as it used to be!
That way, you still keep the habit but with less of the calories.
Once you've got that sorted, spend one of your now clear headed evenings writing down all the stuff that bothers you. At this point GET YOUR WIFE INVOLVED. There's something to be said for keeping her out of the stress but it's likely she's wondering why you're so unhappy. (It doesn't matter how hard you've hidden it, she knows).
Together, put it all down on paper and get it into some sort of order of priority of things to be addressed. Also, talk to her about where you want to be in 3 months, 12 months and 5 years.
3 months could be a stone lighter, 12 months could be with your mum's business sorted and 5 years could be mortgage free for example.
Then work backwards from those goals and work out a plan of action.
What do you need to change?
What effect will this have?
What advice will you need to achieve it?
Once it's all down on paper, work like buggary towards the three month goal and keep mindful of the longer term stuff. Revisit the plan every week / month and update what you've done. ALWAYS keep the three month plans at the front so you can see tangible progress whilst you go along.
Life seems a struggle now and to be honest, it might not get any easier for a while in a practical sense but it will seem a hell of a lot better when you've got some sort of goal in mind with a plan to work towards it.
Allow the plan to be flexible as things change and don't be to hard on yourself should it not go exactly right but always keep in mind that your getting nearer to where you want to be.
All the very best with it mate and you'll always have my respect for having the boll@cks for speaking up and reaching out.
Dave (who isn't as brave as you)
Made me smile Dave.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I would generally help anyone who was genuine, and asked - I'm fairly sure most people would too.
OP - I hope things improve, and I'm sure they will now that you have voiced the major issues. I've had similar experience in the past, no drink, but two young kids, broken marriage for me, and huge monthly outgoings - stay positive in the areas you can, keep active and look for ways to reduce the number of stressors you deal with on a daily or weekly basis.
All the best
It's just a matter of time...
Like you I enjoy running and cycling. I also often struggle with the motivation to actually get changed and go out on the bike or go to the gym. I always find having a long term goal really helps my motivation. Ten years ago I found out about long distance cycling events called "Audax". They're cheap to enter and non-competitive, you're in it for the satisfaction of completing the distance within the time limit. As there are lots of different events at different distances it's easy to find a challenge to work towards, whether it's a 50km ride or a 600km ride. And once you've achieved that target you can set yourself a harder/longer one. Audax may or may not suit you but it's great to find something you enjoy that also motivates you to get fit.
Not much to add, save that it's nice to see such a positive, supportive response from the forum, save from the one individual.
Do keep trying with your MH services- depression can be medicated effectively, and CBT can work wonders, too, longer term.
Also think about mindfulness- can be effective in relaxing and stopping the negative thought spirals. Check if your local MH services put any courses on, and see if you can get a referral. Otherwise, there are some good podcasts on the mental health foundation website.
Keep the faith, chap, and make sure you keep talking about things, to helplines, your wife, friends, even us.
Exactly what I was going to post.
OP - you have very clearly explained to us all how you feel about your current situation, at least where you feel your concerns may lay. You're mentally and physically drained yet you still maintain a high degree of awareness and you have communicated with us here in a clear and concise manner - despite everything else you still have your head screwed on, this will stand you well for the future.
Look after yourself first, both mentally and physically. That's not being selfish, it's to give you the strength to plan for and focus on the future for yourself and the family. Arrange a kid free day or evening so you and the wife can have that first chat and don't try to tackle everything at once, have some goals however break them up into bite-sized pieces. Finally, good luck to you, and you know where we are.
This says it all^^^^
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Not sure that I can add a whole lot, but you have my highest admiration for asking for help, and I suspect that by doing so you have just taken the first step to sorting things out.
The two things that I would do (and I appreciate that it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and pontificate):
1) Involve your wife. This affects her as much as it affects you, and it's unfair on her if you don't give her an opportunity to support you. For all you know, she may feel much the same but is reluctant to share it with you.
2) Sort out the alcohol, for all the reasons already mentioned. Give yourself a challenge not to drink for a complete week. If you can do that, then you can extend it to 2 weeks, and then a month. If you can't manage a week, then it's time to get some professional help - and there's lots available out there. Again, this affects your wife (and probably your children and parents), so share it with them and give them a chance to support you.
I know how you feel, almost the same life for me except I'm ten plus years older and still have a large mortgage. My job was a dead end paying £35.000 and I was depressed and so tired all the time.
Guess what, I got made redundant four years ago and now can't even get back into anything remotely close to the position I once had. Life is really poo now with no prospects, lots of debt and I hate everything!
Point is your still young enough to see better days ahead, your house is safe, the other house is a good long term investment and the business your wife is in is also an investment for the future, all in all theres a very big light at the end of your tunnel, chin up and cut back on the booze a little, your going to be fine in the long run, as for me, well, not so much I fear.
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It's a business. It should be relatively easy to manage it so that tax liability is minimised, even if that means transferring as a familial gift and waiting out the requisite 7 years. I know from experience with my mother and late father that although it's not a subject people like bringing up, often they are much more relieved when it is.
If you really can't contemplate selling it then you need to draw up a plan to make it economically viable. I have a friend who started her photography business from scratch and it takes a lot of good marketing on top of ability - I think this is where most fall down - trading on a good name is not really enough.
Sit down and look at your product, find where it can be improved. What other services can be offered? Can you rent the studio out to other photographers when it's underused? Can you hire other photographers when you have too much work?
Use web and social media properly and keep it up - it can generate a lot of sales especially for a business like this, whereas a poor quality or neglected website and FB page puts people off and can be worse than nothing.
Great vid! Now to keep journeying.. ahem.. singing.
Thank you for sharing the video, I really enjoyed it, could you post a link to it
Thank you
Ignore that last post, by clicking the title it takes you to the video
just because we have good things in our life, doesn't mean we have a good life.
I will be blunt as I have been there and can relate to you, I am a little older and have just gone through this, (still am really)
1) stop eating crap
2) stop drinking (even for a little while)
3) go see a doctor and explain, it could be something as simple as a thyroid problem causing your depression
4) this is your problem, and others wont see it for what it is, as you appear to be functioning well.
5) once your stable expect it to go south again and dont be surprised
6) life has ups and downs, it never stops.
good luck.
Best of luck to you. Have faith (in whatever form it may be) and reduce the alcohol, it will make you feel physically better.
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Thanks again to everyone who responded - by putting pen to paper (well, finger to keyboard) I have not only been honest to a group of strangers, but more importantly I've been honest to myself, I hadn't quite accepted myself how bad I felt about things.
So, I took a day out yesterday to reflect on things, I spent time looking at steps I can take to improve my health, well-being and finances and I have a mapped out a plan of things that include:
Weight loss goal
Target number of days with no alcohol
Financial review of wife's business
Increase in exercise
Steps to tackle pain (repeat visit to Doc's)
I like logical plans and goals, I've set out clearly defined targets on each in a "What, How Much, By When" style and I'll track successes on each.
My intention now is to put no further updates on this thread, for a month - but plan to report back on how I'm doing as I have had some great support both in here and by PM.
Rick, your last post sounds like you're beginning to get a handle on things which is a great first step, others have added much more value than I think I could, but I can back up a couple of points.
Being in IT I'm sure you've heard of setting smart goals but in case not make sure the goals are: S - specific, M - measurable, A - achievable, R - realistic, T - trackable.
This will make it easier to follow and check you are on course.
Try not to make too many changes at once, its like plate spinning, you already have a fair few plates on the go at the moment so as above be realistic in what you can change in one sitting... Remember how do we eat an elephant? One mouthful at a time...
Re the drink, sorry if I missed it but you don't say if its home drinking or pub / social situation drinking, if its the latter and you don't want to lose the social interaction perhaps try switching from beer to a spirit with slimline tonic and soda water, much lower alcohol volume compared to pints and the same with calories
Someone mentioned myfitness pal, its well worth a look if you haven't it gives you an easy way to track food and drink intake, along with calories in and out and excise taken and progress to your weight loss goals.
I really hope you get the outcomes you desire and wish you all the best.
Rick, sorry you're finding things tough.
If you're able to get outside to do your exercise, that will help. Some sunshine is critical even if it's only a few minutes each week. The weather can be awful but sometimes there are clearer skies early in the morning. If you can find someone else to accompany you, so much the better as they will nag you if you cancel.
The other thing I found useful is to find some reasonably healthy food that you can stuff into your face instead of crisps and chocolate (or whatever your weakness is). Have plenty of it in the house and don't feel guilty about having days where you cave in.
Good on ya, keep your chin up, and if things get a little down, please come back onto the thread and let us know, I for one, among many here will be more than willing to listen.
Chin up! It will get better!
Well done Rick, your plan sounds excellent and will target the things that are getting you down.
All the very best mate.
Cheers,
Neil.
Fantastic!
we are all great at pointing out what others could/should do, but not so great at doing those things or even taking a very critical look at ourselves from time to time.
Im glad you have a plan in place.
in fact, you have inspired me to take a very critical look at myself and put something similar in place.
Good luck!
Scott
It's just a matter of time...
Spot on. Male mental health is a big issue that people are only now just starting to talk about!
do you know what, I had the same feeling when reading this, I am eating crap at the moment, getting too drunk when drinking, I have put on 2 stone, and also not getting to the gym (at the bottom of my garden) I feel as though I am fire fighting most days, and for no reason, I am doing it to myself,
time to have a good look at myself, and sort these things out, master of your own destiny and all that.
Have a read folks.
https://www.facebook.com/andysmanclub/
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Very sobering ( pun intended) .
Good luck OP .
All the best mate; you've an awful lot of good in your life (I've heard that line a trillion times) but it doesn't make it any easier. Being brave enough to open up is, to me, a real indication that you're up for the fight and stand a good chance of winning (coping) with the future.
Best Wishes
Gary
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