Reply With QuoteJust go back to licking Windows buddy, posting here is not for you.Originally Posted by RufusRolex
mike
And nagate any saving made due to lack of box and papers (or are you suggesting smuggling the papers with you/by post?).
Just go back to licking Windows buddy, posting here is not for you.
mike
I'm not your buddy.
As a fellow small business owner I'm surprised you feel that way. No-one knows for sure but I've seen stats that say that the total bill in the UK for illegal evasion of taxes and duty might be as high as £40bn. That's about £700 each. Every year.
Noone complains about greymarket prices being lower than retail, but how many of them have VAT paid, I wonder... Do people generally look this up when buying grey/second hand?
Free trade zone innit. At least for now.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Good point, I bet many of the imports have VAT Unknowingly owed on them.
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Not when it's outside the EU
That's a fair point but not really comparable with deliberately smuggling a watch back through customs
No,you are right, it's an ameracanism I have got into using, in reality, I think nothing of you at all, as you and your input on this forum are worthless.
m
Meaning it's ok if someone else smuggled the watch into the UK, and then sells it for a profit (no VAT there either on private sale)... ?
I have a feeling this whole tax-free for tourists is set up to increase commerce, i.e yes the UK don't get the VAT on watches brought (or smuggled if you must) into the country, but then on the other hand don't really mind when tourists boost the economy when shopping VAT free and taking goods out of the country...
[QUOTE=744ER;4096099]Meaning it's ok if someone else smuggled the watch into the UK, and then sells it for a profit (no VAT there either on private sale)... ?
No the point I was making was that it's different being unaware whether VAT had been paid on a grey import as opposed to deliberately smuggling the watch in.
My view is that HMRC should target more people smuggling to avoid the loss of both VAT and U.K. business.
I can't imagine that the reputable grey dealers are not paying VAT or equivalent (in EU countries) so buying from the likes of,say, Iconic shouldn't be an issue.
My view is completely the opposite, that HMRC should stop wasting time and resources chasing peanuts and went for those who really defraud us through dodgy tax evasion schemes. Where there is a will, there is a way.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Yes.
it's not peanuts if a large number of people aren't paying and who ever doesn't comply means resources are used for detection and compliance The tax system should be that everybody pays what they are required to.
Seems like I have opened a can of worms here!
I think my initial queries are well and truly answered
Totally agree with this
The tax take on a few high end watches with vat being avoided is not going to be too significant in the grand scheme of things.
The missing tax from the large companies like Starbucks and Google is a different story .
Rolex don't even pay tax, so a bit of a joke imo, some of these comments about breaking the law, esp the people saying don't wear it back into the UK it's not legal !!! what a load of crap postings by people which I bet break the law EVERY day.
Avoiding UK tax is a whole other story if running a UK business, or self employed esp all these companies which take CASH in hand job,s these are the people robbing the UK of VAT etc.
along with the massive TAX avoidance giants !!!
Bringing in a item with no duty paid for personal use seems stupid to even go though the declaring hassle esp as you can buy a watch duty free in the airport at most places anyway !!!
what we are seeing IS China BUYING ALL STOCK in the UK and at every airport !!! TAX free of course !!! and the ques at airports with people claiming VAT back is massive !
It's all moot atm anyway, Rolex price are crazy out the UK and with the lowest £ rate ever paying 6000 euro's for a basic explorer with a rate of 1.12 exchange rate is £1k more than UK prices !!!
even duty free, as Amsterdam airport had most Rolex in stock this weekend (bar daytonas) but again China people buying 2 or 3 at a time and stock vanished , I wanted to buy the new Explorer but it was still 4895 euro !!! so still more than UK price ! did not stop the Chinese lady next to me buying 2 of them and a Sub though !!! lol crazy
Prices and waiting lists are insane at the moment, I rang one of my local AD's regarding the new Daytona and have been told I am number 80 odd on the list and it will be 15 - 20 years lol.
It seems over the last 12 months or so things have went mad, is there any sign of this slowing down in the near future or is it just a matter or waiting and riding it out?
my AD said 2 Daytona's a year but as we know give it a few years and you will get one in 3 or 4 months.
people only have the names down to make money as can bee seen with the many Daytona's for sale at £13 to £15k
I was about to buy the old one, I was told 5 years wait (AD are jokers), my mate who buys from the AD was quoted 2 months.
as for all the other SS watch's, who knows, there is NO UK STOCK any where !!! airports seem to get loads of stock though but it's luck of the day and all sell out the day they come in !
only 3 SS sports watch I see in windows is the SD4000C the new explorer 2's and the milgauss these 3 def NOT selling at all !!!
I would say as soon as the price rise happens in the UK windows will have SS stock in again esp a watch like the basic explorer which I was even told I cannot have atm lol so a massive joke in the UK.
not that long ago the sub's and LV were in most windows.
Puts me off the TAX doging brand , think I might buy a moon watch next.
It does get frustrating when the watch you want is endlessly sold out and you have to wait years.. Even looking at prices and availability on Chrono its way over the top.
Think I might just keep a look out for a good second hand Sports model then wait a few years until things settle.
That is what it should be indeed, but until that is achieved I'll stick with the odd fraudsters who fly back with their undeclared Rolex and chase the millions of Pounds that fly out everyday to tax heavens.
There's a Bear Pit for political discussion, where I will be happy to put you straight on a subject on which you display astonishing ignorance. This part of the forum is for watch related discussion.
Sometimes the old-fashioned way works best ; find a good AD, buy from him , over a bit of time you will find that 'unavailable' watches suddenly appear from the safe, and that the odd good deal, especially with trade-ins , becomes possible.
Dealers have strong reason to favour real, regular , loyal customers. It's just good business. Equally, why would they show commitment to people uncommitted to them?
As for committing criminal acts , best not to boast about it. It's just sordid.
Last edited by paskinner; 26th September 2016 at 14:55.
What they are required to and what they ought to are 2 entirely different things.
Jimmy Carr was paying what he was required to but certainly not what he ought to.
The people that get turned over most by HMRC are those on PAYE as there is no wriggle room.
Most people on self assessment would have a few questionable expenses and as our Good Lord would say let those who are without sin cast the first stone.
don't agree , new clients are the business future and who knows what a new client will spend ?
old loyal clients pass away or retire , and as pensions and rates are low more and more retire on lower incomes.
New business is Key to any AD future.
we will see full Rolex windows again soon enough, it was not that long ago windows were full, I have both an LV and BLNR from a UK walk in. neither from my AD as I refuse to listen to the BS talk and daft waiting lists quotes of 2years +for a BLNR or even refusal to even add you to a list !!! why would I ever go back and part with money to an AD refusing to add me to a list ?
exports will also dry up in the next few years as the £ recovers and Rolex UK put up prices.
There is quite a difference between evasion and avoidance and I don't regard the latter as dodgy (as in dishonest).
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I bought my first Rolex (a GMT-Master) in 1980, from Botlek Stores (A seafarers' tax-free store in Rotterdam) for the princely sum of £208. Price in UK ADs at the time was around £600. My colleagues said I was nuts for spending that sort of money on a watch (usual fare for us seafarers was £40-£50 for a Seiko - tax-free in Japan). I think the Seikos were around £100 in UK.
Anyway, the Rolex went into the ship's bond until departing Rotterdam for Tilbury, where I was due to depart the vessel. I got the watch from the Chief Steward when we left Netherlands. I decided to declare the watch to UK customs on arrival, since the Chief Steward knew of the watch, and the three fastest forms of communication on a ship at the time, were:
Telephone
Telegraph
Tell a steward.
So - got called to the Chief Steward's office to meet with the two customs officers to run through my customs declaration (usual cigs and whisky, plus the Rolex).
"How much was the watch sir?"
"£200"
"Can we see the watch, please?"
"Certainly - I'll go and get it"
on return
"A nice watch, Sir - but I wouldn't have spent £200 on it"
"Well, I did buy some other stuff in that whole bill - I guess the watch was closer to £170"
"Mmmm..... Still - it's a lot of money just for a watch?"
"Well, I suppose I rounded up the cost in Sterling, and the proper exchange rate put it closer to £150?"
"Yes, sir - £150 sounds about right, Duty will be £18"
"Thank you!"
But - the only reason I declared it - was the fact that the Chief Steward and all the ship/s company knew I had the watch. I'm a career criminal !!!
No-one ever declared the Japanese Seikos.
(My Seiko, the Bullhead Chronograph - cost £40, now appears to go for £350-£500 on the S/H market.)
Al
I don't understand the whole thinking about ADs not wanting to sell watches, pretending they are in short supply or keeping watches in the safe for special customers.
The whole ethos of the AD is to sell as many watches as possible. If they have 30 people on a list waiting for a Daytona at £8450 and Rolex would supply them don't you think they would sell them
The people on PAYE do not as you put it "get turned over by HMRC" they pay the correct amount of tax based on their earnings and tax code and the payments are deducted equally weekly or monthly.
in the case of daytonas and BLNRs I don't think they are withholding any. Rolex just doesn't make enough of them, ofcourse on purpose.
As for Chinese buying in Europe tax free they are completely and legally allowed to do so...let's not turn this into a Chinese bashing thing either. Whether they declare back in China is not the UKs problem. If they are from HK they are allowed to bring the watch into the country completely tax free so for them it is 100% above water to buy it tax free.
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If Rolex don't pay tax as you claim, goodness knows how you know that? Then why is it bad to say wear a watch back into the uk without declaring it? You say those people break the law everyday? Are you a saint.....?
The Chinese buyers are avoiding tax as you say with those purchases, I would direct my anger at them instead of Brits buying 1 watch abroad.
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Why, as a U.K. citizen would I care what a Chinese citizen returning from holiday do?
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Well - since you weren't quoted in the post - you shouldn't presume that you were the "specific" intended audience.
Take the hint
Al
I've forwarded your libellous comments to Rolex HQ to see what they think. Their legal team will be in touch I'm sure.
Seriously!??
Oh dear!
Al
If you have paid 40% tax and get stung another 20% on what's left ... I would call that turned over personally!
My point was more on the small scale nature of the misdemeanour in comparison to companies circumventing our complex tax laws to their advantage.
I would also say that although criminality should not be encouraged it may actually be preferable to the scourge of self-righteousness.
Succinctly-put
Al
Really?well good luck arguing that in court!
Are you talking about paying VAT on your purchases?If you have paid 40% tax and get stung another 20% on what's left ... I would call that turned over personally!
I very much doubt it..
How did you know who to contact :-)
"Rolex, a globally successful company which generates 4 billion in sales annually, belongs to nobody!"
"they don't have to publish accounts or pay tax in Switzerland"
run along !
Last edited by Mrdemon; 27th September 2016 at 11:11.
As Rolex do not have to publish their accounts publicly how do you know they don't pay tax?
And how do you know what their sales figures are?
Are you just being stupid now ?
Rolex is registered as a non-profit corporation, so hence are exempt from corporate income taxes, that's public knowledge !!
now the question is, that's either very clever as a TAX dodge or they DO GIVE ALL THEIR MONEY AWAY LOL , now what you do think happens to all the money made ?
I myself will er on the side of very clever legal TAX avoidance. You are free to make up your own mind what happens to all the money.
A little Google search will give you some more information on what Rolex do as a charity - before you slam them too hard as tax dodgers......
You should have somebody look at your head, rarely I have read such a nonsense.
Rolex is not a non-profit, but it is a commercial Swiss societe anonyme subject to Swiss taxes. It is in turn owned by the Wilsdorf foundation, which, as a charity, is exempt from Swiss corporate income tax. The Wilsdorf foundation does not publicly disclose its charitable donations, however the Swiss authorities are maintaining their classification as charity.
Everything else is just conspiracy theory.
you really think they give away 100% of any profit left ? well they might do I guess but what % is that ? after the trust takes it's % and the wages are paid ?
Many big corporations give massive amounts to charity, like Microsoft and Apple, it's makes them look good and yes all these companies do good work for the causes they support, that's never in question !!!
So the whole charity angle is moot really.
If Rolex were that open they would publish some books, but it's all very secret and Rolex will always be that way, I have a formed my opinion, you can yours , it's a free (ok it's not any more) world.
At the end of the day they don't pay any Swiss TAX, that's as black as black can be and public knowledge.
er that's the same as I have just said but with different words lol
net end result is no Swiss tax is paid !
people do seem to have blinkers on today !
Don't they pay any sales tax/ VAT?
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