What we have with the 7/7+ is a refresh of the existing phone. Given that next year is the 10th anniversary of the iPhone I expect next year's model will have all of the latest tech on it and be a true new model. Having increased their prices this time, if Apple keep the prices the same next year then that will be the model to get. The contract on my 6 is up shortly and I'll be going on a sim only deal then and waiting to see what 2017 brings.
F.T.F.A.
^
I hadn’t given any thought to how old the iPhone was, but I picked up on a comment that Jony Ive made in his voiceover for the video shown in the keynote.
http://www.apple.com/apple-events/september-2016/ – skip to 60 minute mark.
“When complete, iPhone 7 is the most singular, the most evolved, representation of this design."
To me, that would seem to suggest that the next iPhone will be a different design.
Good point Bob. I am not desperate to upgrade from 6, but I just love new and shiny toys, so it might be a compulsive purchase in the next few weeks esp after I'll have a play in one of the stores, or Mrs start moaning that all her friends now got them :roll:Originally Posted by magirus
PS Baaaaaaaa
Last edited by VDG; 9th September 2016 at 12:46.
Fas est ab hoste doceri
The disappointment is the delay of delivery.
I was wiling to purchase today, but wouldn't have thought it that difficult for Apple to maintain their claim of collection in a week.
Now, I will wait until supply hits the stores.
If anyone is looking to upgrade and has a business to put it through, EE have a great deal although I suspect it may be a mistake and could disappear quickly.
Scroll to the bottom here for the details: https://www.buzzpods.com/which-is-th...ne-7-contract/
I moved from the 5s to the 5SE simply to take advantage of Applepay because I feel it is more secure than contactless cards. - I feel thet the 6 etc is too big as well as you.
B
Like a few others here I only use a mobile to make calls via pay as you go on Giffgaff. No worries about unexpected bills from ripoff networks. I use a cheapish moto g with two sim slots so usually I can get a decent signal wherever I am. I use an IPad for the other duties that smartphones cover as they are better vfm I think. £900 for a phone? Get lost.
Clever marketing has convinced punters that watching video / films on a screen smaller than my hand is a good idea. Really? I would sacrifice 'convenience' for quality any day.
Last edited by Slamdoor; 9th September 2016 at 13:14.
This is not genius at all.
The new Daytona is only around £4800 cost but they can still sell it for 10k plus
Same with the iPhone thats the way it is I guess
Getting rid of the 3.5mm is what annoys me. If anything it is a reason to question Apple's design and engineering ability, it's lazy. A real industrial design company would not whine about not being able to fit a battery, or not being able to add water resistance because of the socket. They would design a solution that both allow the 3.5mm socket and the other stuff they want. It's also stunningly smug and insulting to call it courageous.
It is also NOTHING like dropping the floppy drive, or a DVD drive. When those things happened, the alternatives might have been expensive (the all solid state MacBook Air), but they clearly had the potential to offer improvements. I am not aware of any actual improvement wireless audio offers. It does not reduce battery consumption as any saving made in the phone is swapped for the extra power of the headphones/speakers that now need to power both an amp, dsp and wireless chip. It does not reduce the size of stuff, because the headphones are either larger, or their are more dongle / chargers to carry. All things being equal there is no way it leads to higher sound quality especially in a mobile device. Can someone show me an example of wireless audio that is inherently higher quality than wired? I don't mean in the world of 'What Hi Fi' BS, I mean as a principle of the technology; in what way are the worlds best wireless audio sources superior to the worlds best wired, in other words...where is Apple going with this? Also, if Apple wants stuff to be wireless, why are they having such a struggle to figuring out wireless charging on the iPhone?
By the way, I have owned bluetooth headphone, and use bluetooth in my car. Every pair of bt headphones has been returned as after a few days I got sick of losing the charger / plugging them in. In the car if I could get around to buying a plug-in (wired) dock I wold buy one, because I could just plug my phone in, rather than having to chose 'share audio' every time I want to play stuff. At home airplay/bluetooth is cool but that's because the speakers are already plugged in so the wireless is in the other direction, so that's very different.
Having said that, you just know it will become a trend, and in two/three years time when my iPhone 6s is too slow for the latest iOS I'll need to carry a dongle for my earphones. Sigh.
I'd suggest with a lot of confidence that Apple makes way more than 50% profit on every iphone. I'd guess it's about 90%. I'd be shocked if it cost apple more than £75 to make any iphone. Those Chinese factory workers help.
Why would you need to “carry a dongle”, said like it’s a separate item in a different pocket or some great bulky thing.
You do realise you can simply plug your headphones into the dongle, and leave it like that until you need to plug it into the lightning port?
And there’s that thing – plug, plug, plug.
Wireless earphones give you freedom from…well, wires – no more tangled mess to sort out (if you’re that sort of person).
There’s also the added benefit of listening to your music while the phone is charging, and being able to walk away from it to get/retrieve something without fear of trailing it off whatever it’s sitting on or your earphones getting yanked out of your ears/off your head because you’re tethered to the phone by a wire.
I can imagine this would be even more useful when on a call with someone.
As for sound quality – even with 256k bit rate music files over a copper wire, audio is already just adequate, but is subject to microphonics of the cable and being converted to analog inside the phone.
With the AirPods, I believe the signal will be digital, therefore more efficient for phone battery, and converted to analog in the earpod by the W1 chip. You get 5 hours of listening before they need to be recharged, and in time this will improve with future revisions of the W1 and battery technology, and perhaps the audio transmission from the phone too, either in hardware or software.
Assuming the technology isn’t retro-complatible, then you’ll just have to try to find a way to listen to music wirelessly via an iPhone 7 and wireless headphones, and switching between a dongled pair of the same headphones.
Only then will you be convinced or vindicated by the technology.
BTW, Airpods aren’t a Bluetooth device, afaik.
Apple's annual report shows gross margin. It usually runs around ~40%. That's for all products and services. Services have a high gross margin, which raises the average.
Paul
if I've understood a discussion on head-fi correctly they use Apples proprietary W1 chipset/protocol. It's like Bluetooth plus as far as I understood, hence manufacturers will need to go down the MFi route to utilise that specific technology (which brings better connectivity, enhanced data transfer etc) but normal Bluetooth I imagine still works with the iPhone 7?
And to the point regarding digital sound, does there not have to be a DAC somewhere in the route to convert the sound to analogue for the headphone speaker? In the past it was in the phone prior to the signal reaching the headphone jack, now it will need to be in the wireless headphone portion? Did I understand that correctly?
Haven't Sony already done this with some of their phones ?
Headphone jack and waterproof !!
Apple didn't even need to innovate, they just had to copy emulate.
With the recent price hikes across the world, I suspect they will be close to the 50% profit mark. I guess someone has to pay for the looming tax bills and swanky stores
With regards to the headphone jack - dont shoot the messenger but I read somewhere that:
1) they needed more space for the new camera in the phone
2) the DAC is no longer onboard and its the headphones that will now determine audio quality instead of being restricted buy Apples choice of DAC (I can see this being a good thing if better audio quality is your thing)
Im no audiophille but wasnt there restrictions when listening to high quality / lossless audio using previous iPhones? Maybe this was using the previous bluetooth protocol when listening wireless??? I remember getting lost reading lossless audio articles and remember reading some limitation / bottle neck but could be wrong
Ps - the iPhone does come with lightning headphones right? Adapter is just for using old headphones and the extra layout is only if you want wireless? On another forum I think because of the free dongle people are assuming it has to be used
Last edited by kultschar; 10th September 2016 at 11:44.
Let face it all the watches companies make around 50% mark up I found out it costs the high street stores a little under £4800 to buy the new
Datona C the other day so how much to Rolex make on that them selfs ?
I'm not a big fan of removing the headphone jack but its not the end of the world they come with an adapter anyway money people now are using
Bluetooth ones anyway
They say the battery life is longer , cameras better , display brighter , stereo speakers and memory is up to 256gig so sounds like a fair trade off to me
Didnt they say battery is 2 hours longer? Hopefully this is accurate and they keep developing in this department
Same thing i see. Brexit consequense
I work in IT, and almost every manufacturer has raised prices between 10% and 20% due to currency fluctuations. Tends to be a little compounded by longer term rate setting by the ones who also have a conxumer business such as Samsung, Apple, Acer etc.
I've stuck with Apple for the past six years and I prefer ios to android. But they are testing my commitment.
The move to deny users of iphone 4 and 4s the ability to upgrade to the latest version of ios makes it impossible for users to download updates of current apps; and some new ones won't be available either. I have two family members with 5c phones and wonder how much longer before the Cupertino Cashmachine will make them obsolete too.
I know this I a thread moaning about pricing, but as others have said, I'm a sucker for the latest gadgets and I don't think this merits another discussion. I've had a 6 for two years now and I'll upgrade to a 7. My question is, should I get a plus? I've seen a lot for sale or trade shortly after release before, leading me to think that folk don't get on with them. Any first hand experiences to share?
I've really lost enthusiasm for Apple in the last couple of years. I was pretty die hard (my work computer, work mobile, home computer and personal mobile are all Apple) but I'm fed up of paying through the nose for the equipment now.
I will say that I think they make some of the best engineered hardware on the market - I have a 3 year old MacBook Air and that thing still still, and has been rock solid reliable. My iPhone is a pre-owned 6 Plus and that too has been rock solid, still flies.. but it's just getting to the point where the prices creep up year on year, and the improvements are so incremental. And it may sound petty but I just fundamentally disagree with the removal of the headphone jack in the new phone - I just don't think we're there yet. Yes I know there's a dongle, but who wants a damn dongle. I feel like they've just moved too far in the direction of selling to fashionable people, and given up on the people that got them where they are today - Mac customers.
People have been patiently waiting for some refreshed Mac hardware too - that they're selling what they're selling, that's so out of date internally, and at the same high prices is pretty shameful. So I literally (Friday) just ordered a whole bunch of new hardware which my intention is to 'Hackintosh' - but if that doesn't work correctly, I'm just going to go give up and go back to Windows and live with it. And probably consider dumping the iPhone, and coming back to Android too.
Well-specced Android handset (from Chinese online store) = £130. SIM from FreedomPop = £0. Profit!
I bought a 6S plus for myself and SWMBO, a big leap in size from the 4s's we had before. The reason I changed was that reading emails on the 4s felt like everything was cluttered and squeezed into the small screen, web pages were even worse to view. Whilst the size of the device took a little getting used to, the larger screen is a revelation (literally!), web pages can be browsed much more easily and emails can be read and replied to much more efficiently. That's not forgetting it's better having the larger screen for the TomTom app, viewing photos, reading books etc. Both me and the missus couldn't go back to a smaller screen now, in fact where I used to reach for the iPad for a casual browse of the forums whilst slumped on the sofa I don't bother now I just use the 6S plus. It still fits perfectly in the jeans back pocket, coat side pocket, motorcycle jacket top pocket etc and handbag. The handbag is the wifes before anyone asks
Thanks a million!
I was just about to ask about the handbag Duncan! 😀I bought a 6S plus for myself and SWMBO, a big leap in size from the 4s's we had before. The reason I changed was that reading emails on the 4s felt like everything was cluttered and squeezed into the small screen, web pages were even worse to view. Whilst the size of the device took a little getting used to, the larger screen is a revelation (literally!), web pages can be browsed much more easily and emails can be read and replied to much more efficiently. That's not forgetting it's better having the larger screen for the TomTom app, viewing photos, reading books etc. Both me and the missus couldn't go back to a smaller screen now, in fact where I used to reach for the iPad for a casual browse of the forums whilst slumped on the sofa I don't bother now I just use the 6S plus. It still fits perfectly in the jeans back pocket, coat side pocket, motorcycle jacket top pocket etc and handbag. The handbag is the wifes before anyone asks
Spoke to the network and was offered a deal that I'm happy with for a 128 gb 7+.
But the more I think about it the more I question if I should go for it.
I like the S7 but I don't like the way the last few Samsung phones we've had in the house all seem to stop working or develop issues after about 18 months.
If the oneplus 3 was waterproof it would be the phone for me as my phones do tend to get wet as I'm out in all weather's.
Decisions decisions.....
Which one? My nexus 5 is on its last legs. Was planning on getting the new nexus but £ 130 sounds good.
This one looks good: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...-00421-Y7bAZbY
I've got the previous version of this - looks like the price has dropped and this one is a better spec (added 4G band). Remember you might have to pay some import duty, etc. Should still only be around £130 or so.
I've never owned an iphone (just too tight) but it's getting downright embarrassing how far ahead apple are getting with their chipsets.
Whilst the casing is still pretty good, the current MacBook Pro 15's are an embarrassment for the price (13's not too bad). Lenovo (for a LOT of money) are releasing a Thinkpad with OLED display, the Surface Book has problems, but the display is better than all MacBook Pro's, and the mag alloy casing is stronger. For all intents and purposes the current 15 MacBook Pro is two years old. Something is stopping new macs being released, and it won't be intel chips. Finally, I still think top engineering would be to have all the features and the headphone jack. Other phones with the same or higher water resistance kept the 3.5mm jack.
When I looked at the apple web site, I thought they were offering 20 months interest free. The default option included their insurance and support option which made it look more expensive than buying outright. There is an option to exclude this add on. On this basis it seems quite a good deal as you can upgrade to a new phone after 11 months, own it after 20 months or buy it at any time by paying off the residual.
I've got a 2 year old 5S so going to hang on a bit before making a decision to upgrade.
In respect of music quality, the 3.5mm jack meant you listened to analogue audio which was converted from digital by the phone DAC. Technically the audio could be getter utilising the Lightning socket as the output retains the music as a digital output. This means you can use an external DAC to convert to analogue audio and you are not constrained by the quality of the phone DAC. This opens up the possibility of listening to high resolution music files on the go and I guess an opportunity for the Apple Music store to sell you high res music files.
As for BT headphones, I've just bought the Bose qc35's which are excellent if you like Bose's sonic signature. It is useful to get rid of the wire in a mobile context.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Last edited by qaz4169; 11th September 2016 at 22:28.
The lack of high resolution audio is because of Apple software, not the 3.5mm jack. Other phones have high res music file support, as do Walkmans, all through 3.5mm jack. There is nothing inherently 'digital' about high res audio; analog cables can have just as high bandwidth with audio.
As for a DAC, yes using an external DAC can be better, but you can do that with current iPhones and the lighting socket; this is not made more likely or easier without a 3.5mm socket. At some point the digital info has to be converted to analog (as well as then being amplified); either in the device or in the speaker/transducer. Removing a cable does not make this better (or, worse. Give the other digital and wireless radios in a phone, likely worse actually). It does however with present tech mean the speaker / earphone must be larger, heavier, and use more power (physics!).
At present iPhones have a decent DAC, and the likelihood of small power efficient headphones matching the DAC's in iPhones is very slim.
In short, on previous iPhones you get a DAC included. Now you MUST find a way of using an external one, or a dongle. Indeed, Airpods work with older phones!! So, in essence, Apple has reduced choice, and any audio benefits are available to other iPhones anyway.
Last edited by redsox78; 11th September 2016 at 22:50.
if you took those headphones on holiday what do you take? A wire for charing I assume? That can be lost? And, I assume some sort of charing plug (though maybe they charge via USB, I guess that's a good idea).
My earphones are attached by a wire, but there is nothing extra I need to take if I am out of the home for a few days and they are pretty heavy as they have zinc housings and weight 29g. If I was Apple I would market by iems' (which were £120 and wipe the floor on sound quality with any Apple stuff, or Bose) by saying... "...including the remarkable 'audio cable' that by magic includes power, audio, handy tethering facility and unlimited battery life"
Last edited by redsox78; 11th September 2016 at 22:55.
yes, the chip sounds great. I am half wondering when they will power Mac computers (if Apple are design new macs that is!).
Well as I've been using a 4s since release I figure I can justify a new phone so I took the plunge on the 7 plus ( black not jet/pimp black).
My Shure Se535s will be getting used with the adaptor.
The whole kaboodle will be living inside a Griffin Survivor all terrain case.
The 4s works fine and the battery still has plenty of life ( probably down to it having lived in a Survivor case too).
Now to figure out what to do with the 4s...
The current iPhone DAC cannot convert high res audio files, hence using the Lightning socket and an appropriate DAC gives you the opportunity to use high res files. Yes you can currently do that with a 6S but you have to use an app like Onkyo to facilitate delivery of the files. IEMS are not comfortable for me in long haul flights but the Bose qc's are. Powering these are not a hardship, any mini usb to use cable with any phone charger etc.
Lastly, I don't want to travel with an external DAC and amplifier so embrace wireless I will, as will most of the populous now as convenience trumps audio quality in the end - look at the success of streaming services and portable BT speakers.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I use mine as an iPod in the car.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'm exactly in the same position as you: been using a 4S since it came out, now 5 years old and have pre-ordered a 7. The only difference is that I'll be using my Beyerdynamic T51p headphones as I prefer on/over ears to IEMs, although I still have my old Etymotic hf5s which are the best 'natural' noise-cancelling headphones out there.
But it does need servicing on a regular basis, usually as great cost.
It would be interesting to see an "all inclusive" price to do a direct comparison. A price that included all on costs
I assume that the iPhone 7 still has a DAC included as the lightning-3.5mm adaptor they are reportedly packaging with the phone wouldn't work ?
I assume the same, but I reckon you could fit a DAC in the plastic bits of the cable they are adding (powered from lighting). If it still has a DAC inside, the only reason for getting rid of the 3.5mm is space, or water resistance. WR is poor engineering (other phones managed it with 3.5mm) space is obviously a better explanation, but again, if you are adding extra bits (if you use wired) the phone is actually larger and heavier - by tiny amounts to be fair - than it just having a 3.5mm built in.
Rather than what apple says, the reason is obvious really; so they can have more control over the system and make more profit (cos that's their job!). I am guessing to the credit of Apple that the W1 in the Airpods is much better as a wireless protocol than bog standard bluetooth (it is a tweaked bluetooth, nothing too new). Not necessarily better in sound quality (Apple audio stuff has never given better sound quality that what you can get for the same price elswhere), but in terms of wireless performance. That being the case, they are trying to carve out a part of the wireless headphone market, and I reckon they will do well (even if the sound quality is not for me, I'm also the kind of person who will always want a camera than a phone camera. It is fair to say I am not too impressed with 'good enough', but I don't blame people who are, life is too short!).
Non of that is 'courageous' or, an improvement that could not have been made in another way that was more consumer friendly and/or with greater design ability. Doesn't make the phones bad of course! But, at lot of the tech press buys Apple's BS wholesale. To some extent they have to, to survive.
The iPhone 7 still has a DAC in-built, otherwise the stereo speakers wouldn't be of much use.
The analog earphone jack has been removed to free up space for the battery and Haptic (tactile feedback) engine.
I've already got a pair, cost about £14 from Tesco if I remember correctly and work nicely with an Android phone. However the association with Apple will be irresistible nonetheless, and it will be as though they invented them.
It can't be more than a couple of generations before the lightning port goes too. Wireless headphones, inductive charging, more and more speaker units and cars having bluetooth - surely it won't be too long before a physical connection won't be necessary.
Not always true, I get 20% off at EE and it works out just as cheap for a contract paid monthly phone.
Personally I'm looking forward to receiving mine and th waterproof feature is a big sell for me. Tried Samsung phones and tablets but can't get on with them and found after a few months they started to get very slow at processing and juddery, never had that problem with Apple
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Belkin have brought out what is essentially a splitter to plug into the Lightning port so a device can be charging while listening via wired headphones. Of course you still have to use the supplied dongle to attach your expensive headphones via their 3.5mm jack. Another £35 on top of the cost of the phone. I'll need to listen to my RHA 750is in an Apple store before deciding whether to jump ship, as is seeming increasingly likely.
http://www.belkin.com/uk/F8J198/p/P-F8J198/
Oh my. You can buy an add on wire for the Airpods. https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/13/...wireless-wire/
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