Reply With QuoteDoes it have to be a saloon?
Because the E60 M5 Touring is pretty awesome.
4 Door sensible, yet not too sensible "super saloon" purchase advice
I have just sold my TVR Tuscan and have a 4 week old baby. I am not that sad to see it go after 4 years to be honest and I did ok out of it financially. It was a great car but I def got to the "been there done that, want to stop worrying about things" phase.
I now have up to 20k to spend on something interesting and 4 door.
My thinking is that Coupes are out for a couple of reasons. I am advised that while in pre toddler stage there is a lot more kit so I plan to have something 4 door super saloon (Maserati QP / BMW M5 / Jag XJ sized) for 2 years and then explore 4 seat Coupes as we need to start cart less stuff about.
On the Maserati front as they are genuine 4 seaters I'd want a GranSport out of the 3200/4200/GS "series" and they are 30k+ and out of the budget. 12k gets a good 3200 and 16 - 20k seems to get a 4200 and there is a big jump to the GS.
So... 12-19k Maserati QP. Awesomeness, or madness? The obvious competitor is an E39 M5 and change or a good E60 M5 (v10 F1 derived engine, yum) and no change. I am open to other options!
Does it have to be a saloon?
Because the E60 M5 Touring is pretty awesome.
I'm currently loving my time with a E55 AMG estate, W211 variant.
It's a fantastic package, proper jekyll & hyde car with close to 500bhp & huge amounts of torque.
Possibly up for sale soon too, however, it's a bit cheaper, older & leggier than you're looking for.
E60 M5 is also a great car from my limited experience, & no doubt a better car on track.
I consider RS6 & M5 when getting the E55 but decided to go for the Merc for the following reasons;
- Running costs, less potential big bill, i.e. gearbox is a worry on the others.
- Better VFM, I'd have been really scrapping the barrel of bad examples of above for my budget.
- More subtle/sleeper, which appealed as parked on driveway in Manchester.
Last edited by paulpsz008; 5th September 2016 at 14:30.
E60 M5 Saloon ?
E90 M3 4 door? - Cracking V8 and reasonable boot space
4 door M3
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classifi...code=p&adPos=3
S4
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classifi...code=p&adPos=2
C63
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classifi...code=p&adPos=1
Edit: TBK, great minds think alike and all that...
Something bit different, plenty about for around 17-22k:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-XF-...oAAOSwxg5XzVoX
Maybe a bit older than you are wanting but well below budget:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-C...AAAOSwIgNXnnEE
This year it's took 4 & gear to LeMans 24hrs & Goodwood FOSOriginally Posted by paulpsz008
Also 5 plus luggage & 5 bikes down to Devon for a week.
A similar thread has been on one of the car forums I frequent. The opinion of those in the know is that Maserati parts prices have to be seen to be believed. More than Ferrari - be deep of pockets if you decide to go ahead.
Cheers,
Plug
Is say an E39 M5. Enjoy one of the best sports saloons ever mad for a couple of years then sell it and make a profit!
Jaguar XF-R or Lexus IS-F?
I was just about to mention the IS-F, you can pick them up for around 14k now, a lot of car for the money.
Unless you're an 'older' Dad, avoid the Merc at all costs - old geezer car.
IS-F worth a look, E90 M3 or E60 M5 as per others.
As the father of a 15 month old boy...
Everything you've mentioned has the potential for wallet busting running costs. Which is fine if you LOVE it but i think it will be a rare car which will give you tuscan level thrills. The issue for me with such super saloon is that without the level of love you had for the tuscan the bills become more difficult to stomach. A V10 beemer is great when it's working but i'm not sure i could be confident it wouldn't go bang any time soon. Also the exquisite nappa leather isn't going to be a great match for a wee one!
When Mrs Donkey fell pregnant we had a Lotus Evora and a Fiat 500.
Everyone said the cars were stupid and we'd sell one or both within 6 months.
15 months later we have a Lotus Evora, a Fiat 500 and a 2007 vauxhall astra.
When Donkey Jnr was in a group 0 car seat we used to go out loads for boy days out and now he's in a group 1 the three of us can go out for the day.
When we go longer journeys we take the astra and it's great not having to care about the interior or the odd scratch as we load the boot up. It's not exciting, it's not sexy but i get shouted at for driving quickly with him in the car so i don't miss it too much. Finally you need SO much stuff to go away that we tended not to bother :D
Horses for courses but i think you'll be surprised how little you end up going long distances as a family of three - IMHO her car is more important as she'll be in and out it all the time during maternity leave. We will eventually change the 500 for a larger family car, but the move to group 1 has improved that car's usage too.
Just my 2p.
Thought about these myself a few times but 4 seater only always puts a stop to it for us.
My current E250 coupe is only a 4seater, usually OK but its can be a pain in a*se when you need that extra seat!
5.0 V8 XF could well be worth a look. Plenty about and with an engine like that you should be able to do a bit of bargaining.
There was a thread about a week ago about an XFR for £15k on Pistonheads. Was at the more leggy end but I would have thought up to £20K should get a nice one and seems a lot of car for the money.
M5 all day long IMHO or even an M3 saloon... I've yet to drive a saloon car that feels as planted or as responsive at speed., exhaust note from the M3 is dull in standard form but a cheap and quick mod adds a bit of noise and thus some theatre to proceedings. It comes in 3 flavours from sensible to all out chav... I doubt very much you or the little one would enjoy stage 3!!
^ I agree, I had a E92 M3 back in 2008 and put a Tubi Rumore exhaust on, it made a lovely sound. Scared cats up trees when I drove past
Mercedes CLS - loved mine, very practical and very comfortable. Frighteningly quick, engine-variant dependent...
Fair comments From Lazydonkey, but very much depends if you have space/want a third car and what your/your other half's other car is.
I'd still stick to 4 doors though, lifting a child seat out of the back seat in a 2 door is a good way to do your back in.
After the initial 'must take this and we might need that' which we all go through you will soon work out what you really need to take and cut back on what you carry around with you.
Coming from a Tuscan I guess its not a major issue but none of the options mentioned are going to be cheap when it comes to petrol, took my E90 M3 for a 2 week holiday to the west of Scotland and we averaged about 12 mpg, didn't help that I had a roof box on (needed it for the 2 largish r/c cars) and was combination of fast motorway miles and a lot up climbs and twisties once we got off the main roads, great fun though.
Last edited by TBKBABAB; 5th September 2016 at 15:24.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifie...00&NoDoors=004
Any of these any good ?
I went from a Griff to a Maserati 4200 Spyder. I miss the Griff but there is a world of difference in the build quality, sophistication etc. and it's still individual and has that lovely V8. The 100l fuel tank comes in handy as well.
If you are serious about a 4200 Coupe or QP then this forum is very good:
http://www.sportsmaserati.com/
There are some good and bad dealers around which are all discussed there along with where to get parts without paying Maserati prices. I got quoted £5k for a convertible roof pump by a dealer recently. Then an offer on the forum to have it refurbished for £200. And then it got fixed in 5 minutes for free.
I'd avoid the 3200 if you are moving away from the Tuscan for peace of mind, lovely though they are. And the Gransport is great but maybe not worth the difference unless you are a real fan IMHO.
Good luck, nice dilemma.
If it were me, I'd got a workhorse to cart all the stuff around in and an additional car for fun.
You would be gutted if you had to clean baby sick out of your M5/QP/Rs6 etc.
I know, tempted. There is a ridiculously nice one at Sterling Performance in W London ( NO ONE BUY THIS FOR 2 WEEKS WHILE I FAFF, ha ha )
We have a 2 yr old and found for long weekend trips our impreza estate was a bit small so, like someone else on here it seems, I looked at RS4/RS6 and c55/e55 estates.
I dismissed the audis as they seemed to be more problematic and as the e class was no more expensive, and more importantly had an extra 100bhp we went there. Silver (like most of them) e55 estate 04plate 115k miles.
Its superb, quick (very quick if you want it to be), comfortable and huge. Sorry can't agree with the old man image thing. My wife loves it.
Ok its not great on fuel but then neither is a Tuscan. £10k gets you decent one at around the 110-120k miles and up to 15/16 for a good sub 100k example. A later e63 would be in budget but I'm not convinced they are better cars. They are relatively rare so takes a bit of patience to find a good one.
Depending on how our need for space goes it will be replaced by an 5.5 biturbo e63 or even a cls63 estate, or maybe a c63 once buggies are done.
If its one car you're after then its great. If you can manage 2 I'd buy a e320 estate and a cerbera!
Last edited by DavidL; 5th September 2016 at 17:14.
We have a BMW E46 330i Saloon as the "cooking" car for going around London and not worrying about. Mostly my wife's car.
This next purchase I hope will still be in "toy" territory but after having the Tuscan 4 years I am over TVR and want something that there can be no excuses not to use it, weather, noise, no hassle of my wife not wanting to drive it first to meet me off the train after work etc. She was fine with me in E-Types and all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff but the Tuscan made her super nervous.
Thanks for the thoughts guys. I have a weird and varied current Short list
• BMW E39 M5 Pros V8, cheap (8k-15k), comfy, I loved the ClubGT (a super-car club) one I had for the weekend Cons Not quite sure on the looks, double beemer of that “era” in the house hold
• BMW E60 – Pros V10, Comfy, Looks . Cons Potential BIG bills, Expensive ? (15-20k) MPG can be teens, Ouch
• Maserati QP Pros – It’s a Maser, Looks, Noise, V8, Comfy Cons MASSIVE bills? Thirst again.
• Mitsubishi Evo V Pros – Cheap, oh did I say Cheap ( 5-12k) potential to mess with power etc a bit. Looks good in White ( I really want a white car ) IL4 Turbo, Japanses, 4WD. Ticks off a lot of what I want to try. Cons Probably a hassle to drive, not so comfy. (I don’t actuallt care about the Con of Rude Boy image ) Service intervals? Proabbly often but cheap?
• Mitsubishi Evo VI to IX – More of the same but more car for the money if losing the original looks while getting comfort back etc.
• Posh bangers? Jag XJR, Saab 9-5 Aero, “Bond” BMW 750i, “Ronin” Audi S8 - have one for a year or so, wait till she needs less stuff and look at Coupes?
• Monaro 4 door?
• 4 door classic like a Jag Mk II? Cons - Safety and reliability
Its a nice position to be in!
Oh, and did I mention... If I can... I'd like to have minimal depreciation. :P
Its a weird thing of mine but I just can't stand a car losing money. I've never lost money on cars and I don't want to start now.
I don't mind putting money in, either for services or decent bills as I get the benefit but spewing £500pcm in depreciation is not something I am mad to do. I say this as some of the newer Jags and Mercs feel to me like they could lose 8k over 2 years. I'm not sure I feel right about that.
Anyone with me?
Cars can always be valeted! Like with the Tuscan, where am I going to go? I live in SW London and so the crushing reality is we either go as a 3 in something good or with a 4 week old, I don't get to use the car. I am happy to accept this for now, and get a fun coupe when she is 2 or 3 and the 2+2 works for a while but now I need something I can use.
I'd rather have a 7.5/10 "Evo" rated car I can use on weekends to see people, take the baby to the Grandparents in Berks rather than a 9/10 car sitting in the garage for a weekend I have to arrange in advance and be without Wife and daughter to use it. It would just sit there like my Tuscan started to when my wife got over 5 months pregnant.
Vauxhall VRX8 for a bit of left field Aussie grunt?
I've got to go with the comments about an estate vs saloon. The estate gives you so much more practicality, and there are some awesome BMW and Mercedes versions that have already been mentioned. The AMG earlier in the thread would get my vote, although when I was looking last year I also looked a a few left field choices like the Subaru Forrester.
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I've been thinking the same recently and am thinking m3 4 door ticks the boxes for me ,or a c63 but a bit more pricey
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BMW 7 Series Petrol
I've just picked a few (up to £25k to allow your negotiation skills full rein!) within 60 miles of Buckingham Palace.
This one for me, I think...
______
Jim.
Are hatchbacks out?
A lot of choice with them e.g.. S3 or Golf R
The Maserati would be a crazy idea due to bills
Low depreciation on a b7RS4 saloon and should pick up a decent one at 20k
Big bills on occasion though and heavy on fuel but an absolute classic.
S4 also worthy of thought
OK it's not a 'super saloon' but it's a very capable car: Subaru Legacy 3.0R spec B (manual). 250bhp, symmetrical AWD (on winter tyres they are amazing in the snow) and the estate has plenty of room. You'll have plenty of change from your £20k budget - which is just as good as they are as thirsty as me at a GTG!
Newest ones seem to go to about 2011 and run about 280bhp, mostly smg boxes though. Not sure I like the shape as much as the old ones. Most expensive one I could find was at a dealer in Kent (import) but he gets pretty good reviews. £13k.
That or the monaro could be a great shout!
Didn't realise you were stuck in the city.... One replacement makes sense when you put it like that.
That's interesting as mine as done 130k miles and, whilst it's probably good for another 100k, I always wonder what I'd replace it with....I love the fact they are "Q cars"
Another vote for the Jaguar XF with a 5l V8. That's what I went for in a similar position a couple of years ago. I found the XFR (and the equivalent M-BMWs) too tightly sprung and noisy to be genuinely comfortable for the family. The XF is great as a 'comfort cruiser' in town but really satisfying in Dynamic or Sport modes with the subtle V8 growl.
A tidy Audi S8 saloon? 5.2 V10 engine and 0-60 in around 5 seconds. I've previously had a couple of S6s with the same engine in and I was very happy with the performance. £20k will get you a tidy 2009 one.
Not quite in the 'super salon' category, but I`d recommend a Jaguar XF 3.0 Diesel 'S'. Don`t dismiss it till you've had a good test drive, they're excellent cars and plenty fast enough, as quick as the 5 litre V8 in real-life driving.
Lots to chose from at Jag main dealers.
Paul
Current shape BMW 640D grand coupe, I bought a nearly new two door recently, the four door is a very underrated car, often overlooked, get a test drive, you will be surprised, 0-60 in 5 seconds and 50+ to the gallon
I've got an A5 Sportback and the boot is massive, if you don't fancy an estate how about an S5 Sportback. fast car, quattro, great engine sound, tuneable should you want to and pratical to boot. Running costs shouldn't be too steep
This, CLS63
My other half has had a c63 estate as a daily driver for the past 4 years. In that time it has needed nothing apart from tyres and routine servicing.
Ok servicing at a main dealer isn't particularly cheap but it has been a very reliable and quick car. I'm not sure whether they're quite in budget but seeing the c63 saloon posted above for sub £20k, they must be getting close.
While the other suggestions above are good, nothing compares when it comes to noise.
I know two people who have bought them and and then sold them quickly, both said the same thing, great car but can't live with 13 mpg, what does yours do?
Nobody's mentioned Alpina yet? (Cars in links not mine btw...)
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classifi...code=p&adPos=3
Alpina D3 BiTurbo, same 2L twin turbo diesel unit as the 123d, gets 50mpg or more and puts out 211hp and 332lb-ft all while being discrete and not massively raucous!
Surprised by that TBH, my supercharged E55 estate is averaging 20.5mpg currently, only drops below 15 after prolonged periods of town only driving.
BPR, where are you based?
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