Breitling service centre and my B1

[Gurmot]

Long story cut short.

February 2016 - Low battery indicator showing on 8 y/o B1. I couldn't get the back off so I took into my nearest dealer (Ernest Jones) for them to send to Breitling for a battery change.
Last weekend - collected the B1 from EJ (after a communications breakdown leading to delays to giving the go ahead)
Saturday - took the watch out of the service case for the first time, noticed the bezel has been over polished to the point where about 60% of the inlay paint is missing.
Sunday - noticed the analogue minutes hand lost 3 minutes over night (hours and seconds ok). Time reset and the same happened last night.
Today - took it back to EJ and asked for them to send it back to Breitling to sort out the bezel and problem with losing analogue minutes. The nice lady in EJ apologised and told me they more problems with the Breitling service centre than any other.

Questions:

1 - what response should I expect from Breitling? I imagine they will say it was already like that (both bezel and movement).
2 - how best to handle them if they don't agree to sort it a their expense?
3 - can a B1 movement be repaired or is it a simple change of module (and how much)?

I'm annoyed as the B1 has been my got to work watch for a couple years. I work in an office so no rough treatment.

Grr.

[MartC]

I've seen very mixed refinishing results from BUK over the years. On some occasions I've been convinced the AD has refinished the watch badly as I couldn't bring myself to believe that Breitling could make such an appalling job of it, but I have absolutely nothing to substantiate that claim so I'd never state it as fact.

I could have a go at answering a couple of your questions, from previous experience.

Q1 - BUK previously told me they take numerous photographs of a watch when it comes into their service centre. If this is the case, then there should be very clear evidence of the condition of your bezel.
During the quartz service video, (available on youtube) you can see the movement being placed into a test fixture. You would hope they also time the watch as part of the QC process.
Q3 - Module swaps seem to be more common with quartz pieces.

[prexelor]

My Colt GMT had been damaged. Then the box damaged. Both I believe by EJ, who blamed Breitling. The manager at EJ did not have the courtesy to return my calls especially as I saw my watch placed in a plastic bag without protective wrapping, which is then received back damaged.

I am sure Breitling will correctly address all matters as their service is very good. EJ on the otherhand are complete door handles.

[paule23]

I know it's the beauty of hindsight but surely one way round this would be to avoid the middle man.

I would have sent the watch directly to Breitling myself. I'm not sure why there is a need to involve a dealer when the watch is many years out of warranty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ralphy]

Sorry to hear this news, Simon.

Just a thought, have you any recent pics of the watch (Fridaythread maybe) you can use as evidence of condition prior to sending it off?

R

[ben4watches]

I've had a couple of watches go to Breitling and were very satisfied with the results.

Both times I will say that I sent them directly to Brietling myself.

If if at all possible I would always avoid using an AD as I find they care not much for watches, remember your very tricky to fit new bracelet for your great white.

[poppy]

I have sent 2 watches to breitling and had a third returned after purchase by watchfinder.

In each case the returned watch was immaculate, literally as good as new. in the cases of the two watches i sent to them, i dropped them off at the bond st boutique but ingeneral, if i didnt live in london i would send them direct to breitling in order to avoid the time and cost implications attached to using a middle man.

[Gurmot]

A bit more info.

The watch was fine before it went away, just the battery EOL indicator. I would have changed the battery myself but the screw on case back was too tight and I don't have the wrench. Not wanting to scratch it and being v busy at work I walked it into EJ whilst on a rare visit to the High Street. Asked for a battery change, given the price and told it would go to Breitling (although I would have accepted an in house job if they had offered this). I would have used Rocco at Watchworks in Bristol but my work pattern has changed and I don't pass there much these days.

I chased after hearing nothing (in June I think) and was told by BUK I had not responded to an estimate (which I suspect had been sent by BUK to EJ and EJ had not sent it to me). Breitling confirmed the watch was with them, they said they could not discuss it with me as it came via EJ. I called EJ (who blamed BUK for not sending the estimate directly to me), clearly communication issues between EJ and BUK.

I eventually received a copy of an estimate for a service at something like £550 so I called EJ and reminded them I only wanted a battery as evidenced by the original job booking in Feb, they said they would instruct BUK to proceed with a battery change.

Notified a couple weeks ago that watch was in store for collection and collected it just over a week ago.

Ralphy - I don't have any recent photos but EJ did take a couple in store when I checked it in 6 months ago. I viewed these today and whilst the bezel was not perfect, there is clear evidence that it has come back in a much worse state than when it left (odd considering I declined a service and just wanted a battery fitted - why would they over polish a bezel during a battery change??!!).

So now I will wait to see how BUK handle this. I will very definitely provide updates.

[GrandS]

Answers to your questions in the OP.

1. If Breitling has managed to stuff up what should have been a simple battery change to this degree, then they should replace your watch with a new one, no ifs and buts. This should be your opening position. The least you can ask for is to get the watch back with a new battery in the same state you gave it to them.

Next time work directly with Breitling. No middlemen.

2. Post your story on social media, facebook + watch forums with pictures.

3. The module will be replaced.

Here is Breitling's price list:
http://www.breitling.com/multimedia/pdf/sav/sav-894.pdf

I suspect that EJ may be ripping you off/stealing from you. Go directly to Breitling in the future.

[Orgone Accumulator]

Only ever had great service from BUK sent my 2007 SO for service in 2012 came back like new. Due to send it again next year without hesitation & agree sort directly with BUK in Tunbridge Wells.

[marcus fenix]

I'm still surprised that quartz module repair is not more common on quality movements, but very few people seem to do it at all (it is possible, coild, gears, IC is all separate and not bonded together). Pretty sure Breitling would just replace and that module was c. £800 when I enquired about 3 years ago.

Given the full story you wonder if Breitling had started a full refurb and then stopped this when told, after long delays, to just do a battery change? They don't polish any parts when doing the latter. Also, the full service price for a quartz chrono is 395, not 550 so that sounds strange too. Whatever, appalling service all round.

[Gurmot]

I've just checked the service estimate from Breitling (received as a copy when I chased both EJ and Breitling).

Service including VAT and shipping - £373.50
Exchange of crystal and bezel ("a little ink is missing") both optional - £250
Total quoted = £624

All I asked for was a battery change but I suspect EJ never passed this on even though they gave me the price when I took it in. I suspect this then lead to BUK starting the job by stripping the movement and roughly polishing the case and bezel. When they realised they weren't going to get the go ahead for this work they hastily reassembled it, fitted a new battery and sent it back without a proper test. This is pure speculation of course.

As I said, the watch was working and whilst not pristine it suited my purposes. No way I would have gone for a £624 service when all it needed was a battery, which I would have fitted myself if I could have got the back off!!!

[tim2012]

Sorry to hear this but it makes sense. Last time I asked for a battery change they didn't touch the case of my Breitling. The other possility is damage was done somehow to the case and hence the polishing. Anyway it is not acceptable.

[ralphy]

It's a clear case of the fault lying between EJ/BUK and they'll need to sort it out between themselves.

Disappointing that you've been subject to this, your luck with AD's has not been good before IIRC.

R

[Gurmot]

It's a clear case of the fault lying between EJ/BUK and they'll need to sort it out between themselves.

Disappointing that you've been subject to this, your luck with AD's has not been good before IIRC.

R

Good memory Ralph! I had an issue with another High Street retailer who handled a service on a Rolex a few years ago. Scratched case.

I don't have as many watches as I used to and I have tended to use Watchworks for most things so I've learned a lesson and know what I will be doing in the future.

Just drafted a letter to the service manager at BUK to set out my view of events as I can't rely on EJ to put the message across accurately or BUK to transmit the same internally.

I could really do without this at the moment...............

[Gurmot]

Just had a letter back from the service manager saying they will look into it. I'm hopeful for a quick resolution as this watch has been away for the best part of 2016!

Just pop in a new module and fit a new bezel, back to me by the end of the week (dreaming)

[deepreddave]

I'd say stay polite but firm in your position and ensure focus remains on the issue without allowing EJ or Breitling to blame the other - since Breitling wouldn't speak with you they ought to be happy to resolve directly with EJ. I'd also be seeking compensation of some sort (future free service/battery change /strap etc) for the time the watch has been away, the hassle and time invested resolving. Don't ask don't get. Usually.

Good luck. This tale has at least served to inform me to take pics before sending a watch away.

[W124]

I submitted a Navi World for service directly to the Breitling Boutique on New Bond St.

A great cup of tea with biscuits, and an expedited service putting you ahead of jobs coming from the ADs.
Also avoids outbound or return shipping costs.

The piece came back in pristine condition, I was quite satisfied with the value for money factor.

There are Breitling Boutiques in several major cities, and the customer experience was spot-on.

[BernardF]

I've stopped taking my watches (which include several older Breitlings) to the ADs for servicing. For mechanical watches I'd rather go to a watchmaker I know and trust, and for battery changes and WR tests on the quartz watches I tend to go to a Seiko AD instead, whose watchmaker knows the movement in the Breitlings very well. Now for the B1 you can't just swap the movement for a generic Seiko module like on my Plutons, but if you just needed a battery change... I'd be totally p***** off if I'd be charged that much and had my watch damaged as well.

Last time I had a watch serviced by an AD (and it will certainly remain the last time!) I put in a near mint Speedy to the official AD for routine servicing. It came back with opening marks on the caseback, lume scraped off the hands, the lugs scratched from removing the strap and the dial showing deep scratches from the hand lift tool. And it was really badly regulated! There was nothing I could do, and I just couldn't bear looking at the sorry state of the watch. So I eventually sold it on.

[MartynJC (UK)]

To OP. I have always had great service from BUK - direct contact, friendly and excellent results. I needed my B50 worked on (dreaded battery not charging problem) - I spoke and emailed the service centre direct - got a friendly dedicated customer service lady who is looking after my case. She sent me a return pack - all pre-paid so fully insured at their expense - to sent the watch to them. I fully expect either a rectified watch or a new watch - either way - a fully working watch.

I find it difficult to believe BUK would return your B-1 in such a bad state.

Quite different when I sent my B-1 in for a battery change - via Fraser Hart AD in London - the watch was sent off - seemed to be ages - months - AND the AD charged be £100 UP FRONT for a battery change, then they rang me to say BUK needed to do a full service - it was fine before it went in.. anyway - about month later got the watch back . "There you are Sir...here is your serviced watch. Enjoy . . ." looked at the watch - bezel all 'wonky' un-polished case - 10minutes out of the store - the battery warning 5sec jumps happened. Walked it back to the store. Back to BUK - another month or two later - watch came back - pristine and polished and all working. The AD forgot (or internationally) did not charge for the full service - since again there seems to be a complete lack of comms between AD and BUK (more on the AD side I suspect!!). I won't EVER go in there store again.

So - moral of the story - I send all by watches direct to manufacturer. Especially where they have UK service centres - like Breitling, Rolex, Omega

As regards original questions

Questions:

1 - what response should I expect from Breitling? I imagine they will say it was already like that (both bezel and movement).
I would expect them to fix them

2 - how best to handle them if they don't agree to sort it a their expense?
Get recompense from AD

3 - can a B1 movement be repaired or is it a simple change of module (and how much)?
Module change - if the module is not working - part of the Breitling service cost.

[Mainspring]

Just to throw my twopenneth worth in - my Emergency was sent direct to BUK for a full service, after a phone conversation with their Customer Service. This was after a big High Street chain in Liverpool told me that Breitling wouldn't service it as previous battery changes had been done by my local (trusted) watchmaker.

BUK sent me a written quote, which I accepted, and the watch was returned to me within (IIRC) 3 weeks of accepting the quote. It honestly looked like it did when I first purchased it and removed it from the Secret Agent style briefcase!

Slightly off-post, but my advice would always be to deal with Breitling direct.

OP - I hope you get a satisfactory resolution, and will be watching for this!

[Gurmot]

Yes, I have learned my lesson and won't be going via an AD in the future.

The question now is how BUK handle this and whether I will be using them once this is sorted. The last thing I want is to get caught in the middle of a blame-game between EJ and BUK.

[tricktock]

Yes, I have learned my lesson and won't be going via an AD in the future.

The question now is how BUK handle this and whether I will be using them once this is sorted. The last thing I want is to get caught in the middle of a blame-game between EJ and BUK.

I feel for you, definitely don't entertain a scenario where you are left to arbitrate - get them to talk to each other and decide how to best look after their customer. If BUK agree to fix, regardless of ADs involvement, just go direct via post/boutique.

[Gurmot]

Update.

Just had a call from EJ telling me they now had a quote to repair my watch and this would cost me £413. The call was not from my local EJ but from a national centre and the person calling clearly had no idea about the history of the watch and I was simply one of many service estimate calls they were making today.

I tried, as patiently as I could, to explain the background but she was clearly only interested in transmitting and not listening. She went on to tell me that the watch was not keeping time and would need a service, and that there was paint missing from the bezel so this would need replacing. Exactly why I had sent it back!!

I told her to look at the photos taken in the Taunton store before it went away to see how the damage had occurred whilst with either EJ or BUK. She said she would do this and then get back to me with an estimate! I told her I don't want another estimate, I want my watch back, in the condition it went and with a functioning movement!

This is not going well.

[prexelor]

I made the mistake of continuing to resolute my issue via Customer Services who did not have any competence or care for customers, let alone a watch. Going to the store is the better approach and hopefully the manager and area manager have some sense between them. I ended up selling my watch at a big loss - thanks EJ!

Goodluck.

[Captain Morgan]

I fear that you'll need to use the small claims courts to get this resolved.

If it were me I would go into the branch in question tomorrow, ask to talk to the manager, I'd record the conversation on your phone, and ask him how he proposed to return your watch to original condition and give him seven days to respond, or it's the small claims route.
And back this up via a letter sent via special delivery.

In parallel I'd phone Breiling service centre and explain the situation to them and ask if they could quote for a service and bezel replacement to give you a figure to use for the court papers.

Hopefully I'm wrong and you won't need to go via this route but best to have a plan ready.

[Gurmot]

I fear that you'll need to use the small claims courts to get this resolved.

If it were me I would go into the branch in question tomorrow, ask to talk to the manager, I'd record the conversation on your phone, and ask him how he proposed to return your watch to original condition and give him seven days to respond, or it's the small claims route.
And back this up via a letter sent via special delivery.

In parallel I'd phone Breiling service centre and explain the situation to them and ask if they could quote for a service and bezel replacement to give you a figure to use for the court papers.

Hopefully I'm wrong and you won't need to go via this route but best to have a plan ready.

I have a nasty feeling I will have to go this way based on my experiences to date. I will give them one more chance to come back with the right answer and then escalate as suggested.

What bugs me is the internal cost of putting this right must be insignificant compared to the cost of running around in circles and arguing about it. If the retail price is c£400, the cost to BUK must be what £100-£200?

I've been a huge fan of Breitling for around 20 years and owned 6 of their watches in that time. I hope this isn't the last one.

[Captain Morgan]

It's a bit thorny, who can say who caused the damage, EJ or Breitling? In the end your contract rests with EJ so they are the ones who need to rectify or compensate you imho.

I'd push for a cash settlement or written conformation that only Breitling will be used to repair the issues, lest it end up somewhere like the butcher of rye to save EJ bottom line.

[ralphy]

If anyone is going to record such a conversation as proposed here then I think it is important that all parties agree to it at the outset (I'm not suggesting the OP was intending to record surreptitiously, btw).

As has been said, the contract lies with EJ so it is therefore up to them to sort it out.

R

[asi17]

I've always had excellent service from BUK, my B1 has been back 3 times (2 battery changes and a full service) and its always come back in better condition. On its last visit Breitling did communicate back that there was a chance that some paint may come off the bezel on polishing and whether i would want it replaced for a new one. A price was given but i declined, anyhow on receiving it the bezel was fine - job well done. I think EJ's have some answering to do.

[Gurmot]

Update.

I received a letter from BUK today, two pages long but the gist is that EJ instructed BUK to carry out a "routine maintenance service" (I had asked for a battery change and been given a printed receipt by EJ with a price for battery change only). BUK are noting that the watch had never been to them for a service and are saying it should have had a full service anyway, not a battery change.

They have now inspected the movement and there is a "blockage in the gear train" which they say requires a full service to rectify. They also acknowledge that the bezel has more ink missing than when it was sent (according to photos taken by EJ before it was originally sent to them) and they say this is due to the cleaning process they employed when handling the watch.

They are telling me that it still needs a full service and the original estimate for this still stands. They have offered to reduce the cost by the amount already paid to EJ for the battery change (circa £115) as a gesture of goodwill.

The facts are that the watch was fine and bezel had a small amount of ink missing before it went. EJ incorrectly requested a full service even though we agreed on a battery change. BUK have damaged the bezel and now there is a blockage in the gear train causing the minute hand to go out of sync.

BUK still want me to go through EJ, In other words to play piggy in the middle and to pay for a cock up in EJ's communication and BUK's damage to the bezel and (in my firm opinion) for them to service the watch to remove the foreign body they introduced whilst getting halfway through conducting a full service, then going back to a battery change.

I'm assuming I should go through EJ as my contract is with them, they sent it to their supplier who have admitted that EJ sent the wrong instruction, and that they have damaged the watch. BUK don't quite say this but the wording of their letter implies that a third party had opened the watch at some time and this is how the foreign body entered the watch to cause the blockage (the battery is at least 3 years old and the watch was fine before it went to them).

I am not happy.

[Gurmot]

Just closing this off for the record.

The watch finally came back in January and is now OK. Final cost to me was £413, which included a full service and new bezel.

To recap - watch taken to Ernest Jones on 4th May 2016 for a battery change (I could not remove the back). Quoted £120.

Watch came back in August 2016 but with scratched bezel and sticking hands. Watch sent back.

Lots of communication with both EJ and BUK with neither taking responsibility and each blaming the other, I was told there was an obstruction in the gear train and the watch needed a service.

Lots of debate but finally agreed a reduced price for the service / new bezel just to end the ordeal and get my watch back.

Conclusion - I will never deal with Ernest Jones again. They showed no care or interest in resolving the issue and behaved as though they held no liability. They clearly have had problems with BUK and I was given the impression that the relationship between EJ and BUK was broken. EJ tried to tell me to take up my issues with BUK as EJ were "acting as agents" although my contract was with EJ and BUK told me they did not want to deal with me direct and would only take instruction from EJ.

A bloody shambles. Goodbye Ernest Jones.