Reply With QuoteWould the scam be someone buying them from Glycine, and swapping the movements before selling them to TKMaxx?
There's an interesting thread on TWF suggesting that the movements in the TK Maxx Glycine Combat watches might be ETA clones:
http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index...lycine-combat/
and here:
http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index...ne-eta-2824-2/
It's either a mistake or dodgy practice. I wondered why they were so cheap
Would the scam be someone buying them from Glycine, and swapping the movements before selling them to TKMaxx?
Not really worth the bother is it ?Originally Posted by Der Amf
Seems glycine don't use ETA all the time from what I can tell
If the watches from TK weren't advertised as having ETA movements then I don't see a problem
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Where would TK have got them? They don't buy from Joe Public as far as I know.
They sometimes use Sellita, but this movement is unmarked. Would Glycine really have a range using Chinese clones?
If you look at the reply that the chap recieved from glycine I think that it is definitely possible that some watches do. Not necessarily a whole range
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
The moderator on the watch forum appears to have worked on the watch though and says its a Chinese close but says Swiss Made on the dial. That cant be right?
Well I'm no expert but if the watch is assembled in Switzerland then I'm pretty sure you can have made in Switzerland on the dial .
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Glycine said, "… most of the movements are from ETA." Which could mean some of them are Sellita, but not cheap Chinese clones.
If it was slapping clones into 'some' of its watches it would force me to revise my opinion of them as a brand. And considering its history, surely it would be totally counter-productive?
There is some pretty interesting reading on wiki about the regs defining 'swiss made' etc
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Didn't realise that I thought at least the movement had to be Swiss. Sounds like Rotary with their confusing made in Switzerland, assembled in Switzerland etc on their dials but in saying that, even they only use Swiss made for their ETA watches. Doesn't fill me with much confidence for Glycine watches if that's the case.
From the wiki article i think the movement has to be 60% manufactured in swiss
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Yep you are no expert, in this area anyhow. Swiss made on the dial refers specifically to the movement. Having that on the dial and a Chinese movement is basically fraud or fakery.
Can anyone remember what the TK Maxx web page said about the watch? I saw it but didn't register whether there was any spec advertised.
That's what I thought, Swiss made referred to the movement which is why when they use Chinese movements they have confusing terms like "Assembled in Switzerland" or similar. Pretty shocked to read that Glycine are doing this to be honest.Yep you are no expert, in this area anyhow
I don't recall reading any spec advertised but the more concerning thing is that according to the watch forum thread the watch has Swiss made on the dial and a Chinese clone inside.
I saw some of these at my local TK Maxx for £199...seemed mad cheap for a Glycine.
Is it possible they were specified with a lower grade movement by TK Maxx to get them down to this price?
Wouldn't suprise me, its known that alot of these types of stores & discount villages have items specifically made for them.
Same design and kudos of having a brand name attached, but made cheaply to sell at a lot lower price point.
Very possible indeed probable, bearing in mind the cost of either a ETA or Sellita movement which would be a big proportion of the £200. They really should have considered changing the dial to reflect this though so as not to mislead the buying public.
The moderator on that thread has just posted that "its an Asian clone without doubt".
From that thread:
Surely not?its a clone...seriously....no markings at all anywhere, genuine eta 2824-2 balance assembly doesnt fit, the staff is too long......i know i tried this afternoon
Glycine use the designation GL224 for the 2824-4....i wonder if this is a sneaky work around
That's interesting.
I am sure none of the parties would be circumventing any laws but certainly would make one think twice before buying from them.
Very naughty, so when these start hitting the 2nd hand market people will be paying good money for a cloned movement, rather than a ETA 2824.
I've posted some photos of my Combat 7 (which dates from 2012, and is not a T K Maxx watch) on that thread, and it has been confirmed that it has an ETA 2824-2 inside.
I did postulate that there might be a correlation between having a Glycine logo on the dial and having a non-ETA movement inside, but I'm basing that on an exceedingly small sample.
That would make sense with what happens with other industries where slightly different markings allow the company to distinguish between their full price codes and the "not really full price and made for discounters" stuff.
so who owns Glycine now? After 30 minutes of searching I am none the wiser?
I just can't get my head around Glycine happily shipping out watches with it's name on the dial, with cheapo clone movements.
I mean, how much can it actually be worth to them? If it turns out to be true, and not just a one-off hatchet job, then I can only see it doing them damage. I truly hope it's a one-off hatchet job.
I have a Glycine Combat 7, bought from this forum recently and it is one of the TK Maxx watches, which I was well aware of. This information makes me feel a little uneasy.
Is there anything I can do or see easily through the view-back which would confirm either way? I can probably post photos, but not sure I have good enough macro equipment for it to be particularly helpful.
Have a look at this post, which shows the differences between the ETA and the clone movement:
http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index...omment-1073748
Compared to the indicated areas on the pictures about half-way down:
http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index...combat/&page=2
Here's a weird aside - it looks like they lost control of their twitter account in april - look at recent posts:
https://twitter.com/GlycineWatch/with_replies
Last edited by Alansmithee; 7th July 2016 at 23:00.
Thanks. It's tricky without a loupe, but I can make out some numbers/text on the movement above the balance wheel. Can't quite read it. It looks like a serial number and possibly the ETA stamp and number. The rotor on mine is different to that shown in the pics on the TWF page. It has additional text around the centre bearing saying 'Cal No GL224'. Hopefully all that means it's genuine.
I had a Glycine 6 a few years ago and it was definitely an ETA - nicely decorated it was too.
I noticed at the time these TK Maxx 'black' versions came out that there was nothing on the Glycine website about them and almost nothing on the web. It was only TK Maxx that seemed to have them for sale.
The logo is an anomaly I think as some of the proper Glycines have text only:
Still a bit of a mystery though.
There was mention on a thread about independent Swiss companies that they are Chinese owned similar to Eterna, who that Chinese company is another matter.
^
From what I can see, Glycine is still held by Altus Uhren Holding AG, and run by Stephan Lack and his daughter, Nicole Lack-Ramseyer.
The Hong Kong investment group you’re referring to with Eterna (and Corum) is Citychamp (formerly China Haiden).
The current Glycine datasheet for the model, here, clearly indicates the movement is
Calibre:GL224 Swiss automatic movement Glycine decorated rotor
Functions:hours, minutes, center seconds and date at 3 o'clock
Size: 11 1/2"
Jewels:25
Power Reserve: 38 hours
Hz:28'800 A/h
Finish:elabored
(my bold emphasis)
And although the exact model variant is not pictured, it does state that not all variations are pictured, and those that are do have the applied logo above the Glycine name on the dial.
Is it possible that someone swapped out the movement on that one version, to keep an ETA movement in favour of a clone??
As the guy who did the heads up on these and then sold on pstruck's one to him, I too am a little concerned over this, I hope that TKMaxx and by extension some of us have not been hoodwinked here.
Dave
Based on little more than conjecture/supposition/gut instinct – as the particular watch in question was bought pre-owned, by the current owner, then I’d be of the opinion that the original buyer has/had a fake watch, and done a bit of movement swapping, including the date wheel.
Glycine watches are available at similar prices in Tokyo. As I mentioned in the Sinn/Glycine thread, recent ones didn't seem the same quality as older ones, in my opinion. ETA and Swatch themselves have Chinese operations, I seem to recall. There are lots of roads to "Swiss Made".
Pretty certain now that mine is fitted with a genuine ETA movement. In daylight I can see all the markings that you would expect/hope to see. It doesn't appear to be an elabore finish though.
Good. It seems his watch may have been subjected to an unofficial 'mod'.......
Dave
As far as I`m aware, 'Swiss Made' can be used if 50% of the value of the watch has been added in Switzerland! That definition might not be word-perfect but you get the gist of it. Basically, Swiss Made is not an indicator of quality in the sense that it was 40-50 years ago.
Personally, I don`t have a problem with the Chinese clone ETA movements provided the quality is on par. Provided the parts are fully interchangeable (that's the message I`m getting) and function correctly I see no reason not to use them.
Chinese parts will find their way into Swiss watches.............Swatch Group are creating the problem through their parts supply policy. As with all things sourced from China, quality and consistency could be areas of concern. However, Swatch Group haven`t been perfect in recent years; most repairers can tell stories about faulty parts in genuine Omega or ETA packaging.
Paul
You're thinking of the rules for things like Swiss army knives. The rules for watches specifically require a Swiss movement. The full rules are on Wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_made
Thank you for the link - very useful.
It looks as if my thoughts on the logo are a total red herring, and that it is just something that changed with time (my 2012 doesn't have a logo; the 2016 watches do have a logo) rather than indicating what type of movement is used.
Thanks......I stand corrected
I realise that this is a very old thread, but I found myself Googling the model (which I bought from the forum heads up, as did many others) when I came across the thread elsewhere which prompted this one. Id always assumed that mine was an ETA, but I hadnt actually examined it.
I have spent 15mins this morning looking properly and I can confirm without any shadow of a doubt that the TKMaxx stock uses ETA 2824 movements. It is difficult to see, but with a powerful enough loupe, a sufficiently bright LED light and enough swearing, the markings can be read.
i think this is very possible. Lots of manufacturers in other industries do the same thing.
For example, an odd one but an example none the less.
Factory outlet stores like Hugo Boss, 80% of the clothing they sell on mass you wont see in their normal high street shop, they mass produce at a lower quality to specifically sell at outlet, same with Ralph Lauren. Different suppliers, different materials but principally based on in house designs and collections.
If you apply that retail logic through i think using alternative materials for a watch sold via a Costco or a TX Maxx is highly possible
Mine clearly has an ETA 2824 in it. It is common knowledge that 'old' Glycine stock was being cleared from the supply channel as they had been taken over and the price was perfectly reasonable.
Talk of cheap alternatives with Chinese movements for discount vendorsis as foolish as the ridiculous man on Watchuseek.
Sounds good. Can you post a picture?
I've owned no less than three Glycines in the last twelve months - one had an ETA movement, two had Sellita - all required (as above) very good light and a strong lens to find the identity marked on them. Caliber corner has useful pics to help you find where the info is, and it's worth noting all these movements seem to vary in design details over time.
I struggled to see it! :D Unfortunately I dont have a macro lens and I am the very opposite of an accomplished photographer. I really I just take snaps with Nikon DSLRs. I might have more luck with an iPhone and lots of zoom: I will let you know.
If i had a case back opener that didnt slip and ruin my case backs i would check my one.
TK MAXX seem to have doggy watch deals in general IMO and i would not buy from them.
They do the old £2000 RRP but now only £79.99 tripe
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