Incoming: 1999 Rolex Explorer II (and side debate !)

[Roy_Drage]

Not sure I need bother posts of my lovely new watch, this thread appears way off topic to one I had intended - doh

Please share a few shots of your watch, don't let any of the OT chat detract from your enjoyment.

[Raffe]

What is your opinion on that though?

My opinion is that the market price of the watch has not gone up by 15% in 13 months. I suppose you have bought it at a discount to its market price and have sold it at market price. There is obviously no rule here stopping you from doing this, but that doesn't make it decent behaviour.

I don't think you are much better than Viperstripes. You bought something which has been offered below its market value, but when you sell it you mark it up claiming that it is still a fair price. Same with Viperstripes: 3k is a fair price for the Rolex Explorer. But as he bought it on the cheap due to forum members not wanting to mark-up this very special watch, I suppose decent behaviour would have been to donate the profit to charity. In your case, I would have found it decent if you had put an equally large discount versus today's market value as you received a year ago or at least would have shared the profit with the person owning the watch before you.

But then different people will always have different points of view about what is decent and what isn't.

[DB9yeti]

On the charity watch though, it served its purpose in raising funds for a good cause. So what the owner wishes to do with it after then is their decision.

But at the same time to go and profit from that exact watch back on this forum to a new member is not a particularly decent thing to do and VS probably thought nobody would ever know as it was a reply to a WTB.

I agree with point one. Bigfish owns the watch, it's his to do with as he wishes and how he enjoys it alongside his others. The Polar Explorer is a fine watch, I wore one for ten years on the oil rigs of the world, from Siberia to Sahara and it never let me down. Hopefully it will stay on here if he flips it, a few of us would sort that to keep it onsite as it were.

Point two; I doubt he gave it any thought, why would he care? I haven't been here long compared to others but I spend a lot of time here and don't use any other watch forums. I consider this an Internet 'home' if you will. Can't expect others to feel the same though. As I said, I won't interact with him now and perhaps others won't either. But I doubt he cares, he's a lightweight amateur dealer thinking he's beating the system by making money every time. I just think he's a snide. He joined for a free sales platform and he got one, nothing he says is of any interest anyway.

[CVByrne]

My opinion is that the market price of the watch has not gone up by 15% in 13 months. I suppose you have bought it at a discount to its market price and have sold it at market price. There is obviously no rule here stopping you from doing this, but that doesn't make it decent behaviour.

I don't think you are much better than Viperstripes. You bought something which has been offered below its market value, but when you sell it you mark it up claiming that it is still a fair price. Same with Viperstripes: 3k is a fair price for the Rolex Explorer. But as he bought it on the cheap due to forum members not wanting to mark-up this very special watch, I suppose decent behaviour would have been to donate the profit to charity. In your case, I would have found it decent if you had put an equally large discount versus today's market value as you received a year ago or at least would have shared the profit with the person owning the watch before you.

But then different people will always have different points of view about what is decent and what isn't.

Wow I feel that's a very harsh view.

Firstly 12% increase on purchase price is what it was sold for at £9,550. Also you are incorrect in your assertion that prices have not increased on the used market for Royal Oaks by 12% in the past 13 months. At the time I purchased the watch on SC there was one available in the UK for £8,950 on chrono24. In the past 2 months there have been none on Chrono24 for less than £10,500 UK. There have been 5 in the UK on there in that time. That is a 17% increase in price. In the same time there has been a 10%+ increase on the black faced 15400s on the used market in the same period. So to sell at a 12% increase on what I paid is in my view fair in this case. £11,250 is the current cheapest of the 3 UK available on chrono24.

Next, I sold it to fund my purchase of a 15202 as when in March last year one was available on Chrono24 for 12k I had insufficient funds to purchase my dream watch. One cropped up last month on Chrono24 for £14,500 in London so I made the decision to buy it despite the 20% increase in price in 15 months.

I accept that in general such an increase for a resale on SC would be higher than normal but in this situation given the high yoy increases to the price of those 2 models of the Royal Oak I have sold it at a similar level of discount to market value to when I purchased it. Given the speed with which it sold and the level of interest I think that should be fair evidence of that claim.

If I was intent on the aim of profiteering I could simply have listed it on eBay, or Chrono24 for £10,500 or more with the aim of profiting to the utmost. I do not believe a comparison between ViperStripes who sold a watch that has importance to many people on here to a new joiner via a WTB is in anyway comparable to myself selling this watch back to the community at a heavy discount to its current market value openly on SC. I feel vilifying me in this manner will just help or encourage people who want to sell on such a watch in a similar situation to do so off SC and that would be to the detriment of the community as a whole.

Regards,
Conor

[TimeOut]

I haven't come accross such arrogant and deliberate greed on here before.

Has anyone else?

He made a calculation of his profit made from using TZ-UK to purchase, and almost immediately sell, the Explorer II. The fact he made the calculation meant he has presumed an entitlement to use this forum to make money out of another forum member.

Over £200 went straight into his back pocket from that deal.

Really serious wrongdoing in my book and a shame if it encourages more of this type of behaviour.

[DB9yeti]

Please share a few shots of your watch, don't let any of the OT chat detract from your enjoyment.

If I hadn't been clear - yes please to this! Would like to see it alongside the others :)

[Schofie]

Not sure I need bother posts of my lovely new watch, this thread appears way off topic to one I had intended - doh

Bigfish why don't you change the title of this thread to 'The Explorer Debate' or similar and then start a new thread when you come to share the photos of your beautiful watch? That way the debate can rage on and you can have a new thread with all the glorious pictures

[Dave+63]

The arrogance level is certainly higher than seen in other dealers who, generally, try to explain their way out of it.

His "it's not for sale but you can have it at....." Is really quite brazen.

Obviously he can do what he wants but hopefully no one will deal with him in the future.

[Raffe]

Conor,

the fact that a watch is offered for a certain price on Chrono24 is never proof of its market value. Even today there is an offer from a London dealer for a brand new and unworn 2015 AP15400 at £10,500 on Chrono24. Trouble is, if it doesn't sell at this price it's too expensive. Hence the fact that it is offered for £10.5k says absolutely nothing about it's market value.

You will not convince me that the price has appreciated by more than 10% in a year, either it was too cheap when you bought it or you got lucky when you sold it.

Bigfish, you got yourself a fine watch and I am looking forward to your pictures. You should not think that someone took advantage of you, the price was fair and I think you understand why some of us are angry at the seller. I will stay out of your thread now.

Raffe

[bigfish]

Bigfish, you got yourself a fine watch and I am looking forward to your pictures. You should not think that someone took advantage of you, the price was fair and I think you understand why some of us are angry at the seller. I will stay out of your thread now.

Raffe

Yes, I am delighted with watch and now I know the full "charity" nature of this watch can see why you are annoyed with the seller. But the watch is a cracker

[bigfish]

Bigfish why don't you change the title of this thread to 'The Explorer Debate' or similar and then start a new thread when you come to share the photos of your beautiful watch? That way the debate can rage on and you can have a new thread with all the glorious pictures

That's actually a good plan, but assume this thread will soon come to natural conclusion? Anyhow will tweak the title

[Dave+63]

That's actually a good plan, but assume this thread will soon come to natural conclusion? Anyhow will tweak the title

You haven't been here long; this could go on for years!!!

[Schofie]

That's actually a good plan, but assume this thread will soon come to natural conclusion ?

Possibly but as long as it keeps getting bumped (like I'm doing right now!) there will be more discussion. Get a fresh one up mate

[CVByrne]

Conor,

the fact that a watch is offered for a certain price on Chrono24 is never proof of its market value. Even today there is an offer from a London dealer for a brand new and unworn 2015 AP15400 at £10,500 on Chrono24. Trouble is, if it doesn't sell at this price it's too expensive. Hence the fact that it is offered for £10.5k says absolutely nothing about it's market value.

You will not convince me that the price has appreciated by more than 10% in a year, either it was too cheap when you bought it or you got lucky when you sold it.

You quote an unworn 2015 white face which is always at a discount to the rarer blue face. I imagine you made your opinion the moment you saw my sales post, you just assumed that was too much of an increase yoy and made your view and have no interest in changing it. But anyone else can simply check Chrono24 for the 15400ST.OO.1220ST.03 and see the cheapest of the 20 on there is £11,250 and can deem my sales price of £9550 was very fair indeed.

Further my sales post was up there for about 24 hours before it sold. The previous sales post was up for 13 days last year before I bought it. Further reflection on the relative value in the two periods of time, so I'm certain of the very fair discount I offered on this which is in the spirit of the forum.

Conor

** Apologies for taking this thread further off topic that it already was. But I would not like others to be deterred from a sale back on SC in a similar situation where a watch has increased significantly in value in the intervening period. **

[bigfish]

Bored watching England v Iceland so a few a quick pics of the lovely new Explorer II

[deepreddave]

Bored watching AWFUL England v Iceland so a few a quick pics of the lovely new Explorer II

Fixed that for you. Nice watch ;)