Reply With QuoteArchie absolutely nailed it as far as Squale are concerned.
Couldn't say it better. If anything put me off P&C (other than this thread) it is their sycophantic videos and verbal diarrhea.Originally Posted by ROBANNENAGY
I watched one a few years ago on the Squale 50 Atmos...about made me sick and I haven't worn Squale since (I didn't by it from them).
Must get it out again!
Last edited by gerard; 3rd June 2016 at 13:46.
Archie absolutely nailed it as far as Squale are concerned.
Having read this thread from end-to-end with an open mind from everyones comments, I will now state categorically at this juncture, that I will never buy a watch, or anything else, from Page & Cooper.
Never, never, never.
I'm sorry to read about Tony's experience of P&C, but my experience was quite the opposite: I sent my Damasko in for service and had good communication and timely responses. The price wasn't cheap, but unfortunately that's not unusual in this world.
Price aside, the only thing I'd fault was the packaging: the watch was sent back in cheap packaging. It detracted from the customer experience, but then I don't wear the packaging.
I've had positive experiences of dealing with P&C, including their service department. They've had to sort out various issues for me, but did so politely and with good communication.
P&C isn't a huge outfit, so I wonder if Tony's experience was merely the result of P&C being over stretched. Whilst Jonathan's reply on here wasn't great, this could be for any number of reasons (e.g. he was stressed, having an off-day, had key staff off sick, ... ). Even Jonathan's only human and we all make mistakes at work.
Johnny has had plenty of time to get over his stress, day off, staff shortages, but has chosen not to.
Watch forums are places which can help build, or break a reputation. If the part time owner hasn’t the interest at this early stage of his business, he deserves to fail.
Got out of bed on the wrong side, had an itchy scalp, didn't get the right grade of silk for his shirt, his servant sneezed into his teacup, he tripped over his poodle, stepped into a puddle in Blackpool, or something, most understandable.
Last edited by GrandS; 3rd June 2016 at 20:36.
This thread is a caricature of the internet at this point
I fear this reply might be a bit off topic, or even rambling, which coming from me I do realise is very rare
Having dealt with P&C a couple of years ago - not a bad experience, but not a great one - I wouldn't be happy with the post made in reply to the OP; it's fudging and passing the buck.
I am replying really because P&C sound a little like too many sellers of luxury good these days. It's the impression that buyer should feel privileged to be allowed to buy a watch from them, or feel bad for needing customer service. I am sure parting with a chunk of money for this sort of thing means you should be treated with huge care, respect and not treated as if your problem with item is a pain to handle "how dare you make a slightly different request".
If you decide to become a seller of goods (especially luxury items), you have signed up to a deal. The deal is that you work for the customer. Some customers will be fussy (NOT saying the OP was!) some will be more chilled. Tough...it goes with the territory. No-one forces someone to make money selling stuff. If you chose to have that as your career, don't treat customers as if they are pains.
I cannot stand Amazon - tax dodging etc. BUT, you get the same service from them for the cheapest item to the most expensive. And, in the same vein (this might surprise you) the culture of Apple drives me up the wall. Calm down...they are just computers! BUT, you cannot fault the 14 day returns policy on stuff bought in store.
In this case the OP was disappointed with the service. P&C should have bent over backward to rectify it. Even if it cost them money. Because it won't happen most times, and they#ll get the money back in the improved reputation and folks who have no problems. In the end, the 'bad press' from some of us will have cost them more money than just giving the OP a new watch!
Unless a shop clearly stipulates the T&C's of the transaction if there is any doubt about who is right, it has to be the customer.
I dunno, judging by their yourtube videos they are a pretty classy outfit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEXIbJ_8Eqc
I am sure you have to pay big money, just to get in there. It does not look like the place where you can walk in and simply buy a watch. They may insist on a net worth declaration, recommendations from upstanding members of society, etc. I expect they will kindly assess a future customer's request to buy a watch and suggest something suitable for his or hers station.
Last edited by GrandS; 4th June 2016 at 01:29.
Wow... not enough ice to put on that burn. Well done!
Absolutely. I run a small software business, part time in my 'retirement'. I'm currently helping a third party with a problem they have which is affecting my application on a number of PC's at one of my customers. It isn't my problem, my application runs faultlessly everywhere else, even on other PC's at the same site. There is nothing I can change within my application that will change the situation and I won't receive a single penny for all the time I'm spending helping the third party resolve this for my/their customer. It would be all too easy to walk away from this and say "not my problem". But MY customer, and MY reputation are important to ME. And I know that I will likely receive further business down the line by doing this. Sometimes it is necessary to take a short term hit to gain a long term reputation.
Ironically, I was only on the P&C website a few days ago looking at a Sinn Hydro. Guess where I won't be buying one from.....
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
Yes, that is all well and good, but do you host champagne events, serve whiskeys, coffees, lunches and hang plimsolls from your ceiling?... Didn't think so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEXIbJ_8Eqc
Last edited by GrandS; 4th June 2016 at 10:03.
Never seen that before, that video is embarrassing. It's a beautiful encapsulation of the new gilded age though.
It reminds of the time (on here I think) someone got crap service from Mappin and Webb because they were wearing overalls. Thing is, they had just finished their days work at Bentley at Crewe...and M&W lost the sale.
I get the feeling P&C's attitude is, there are plenty of people with the money to buy loads of stuff from us, so one person kicking off, or geeks on a forum, don't matter.
Yes, that is all well and good, but do you host champagne events, serve whiskeys, coffees, lunches and hang plimsolls from your ceiling?... Didn't think so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEXIbJ_8Eqc
Ha ha, so that's where P&C's higher prices come from. Me? I'd rather provide a quality product at a fair price, (for that read - better product and cheaper than the competition).
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
No offence, but what's so special about people in overalls who work for Bentley in Crewe?!
I guess the point was retailers should not judge people by clothing, but I just found the 'but he worked as an x from x' a bit of a strange one!
I know a guy who works on Typhoons in Coningsby, but he's still a bit 'of the end of a bell...'
I'm not casting aspersions on the Bentley chap either, who I'm sure is a lovey man!
Anyway, I was reminded this morning after my latest communication from Bremont who despite being a marmite brand certainly know how to speak to and look after customers.
Their customer service experience brings into even sharper relief my own first hand experience with P&C...
Last edited by Tooks; 4th June 2016 at 10:29.
Beards? ......They're soooooo 2015!
My point was not about personalities, it was about the assumption that someone in overalls was not worth being in somewhere like Mappin and Webb (which is just chain store). This is implied in the P&C video, that their goods are for those kind of people; Bobo's, basically:@ http://www.theguardian.com/theobserv...28/focus.news1
...and that there are unintended consequences of annoying customers.
P&C would do well to recall that one unhappy customer can have the same impact on your business as 100 happy ones.
Generally people bitch about bad service, and quite loudly as well. Nothing in the 21st century information age has changed that, if anything it's worse than ever. People rarely shout about good service. They may mention it if asked but they don't generally come into the office in the morning and announce they had good service somewhere whereas they will happily talk about bad service. Because misery loves company people who hear of bad service seem only too pleased to recount the 2nd hand experience to others. Good sales and marketing people have known this for centuries, it's not rocket science.
Schmoozing a few well heeled customers might work if you are selling watches costing upwards of £50k but is not the way to market yourself if you are in the £2k bracket. (That or you are wasting your money schmoozing pseuds, which may say a lot more about the hosts judgement.)
I saw this and thought of you...
Page and coopers watch review videos are good to be honest. A good up close look at a watch shot with a high quality camera in good lighting is useful when you're thinking about buying online, and P&C do that for lots of brands I'm interested in.
I don't know WTF is going on in the video above, but it's not something I want anything to do with.
That video is hilarious...
+1. Quite so.
Who knows, if you are a well behaved customer they may even serve you a bowl of noodles!
Are Page & Cooper real people? Is the Page & Cooper Club something you pay to join?
The first rule of Page & Cooper Club is: "You do NOT talk about Page & Cooper Club!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC1yHLp9bWA
How was the "special seal" issue treated?
Thanks
*holy thread resurrection!!!*
Deep shame, all of this.
As someone who has no connection to anyone in the forum, or page and cooper (whose website I seem to have permanently open) I consider myself pretty neutral.
P&C's response here was very poor. The chap comes across as egotistical and self important. He may be a very nice chap who genuinely cares about his customers, but he failed to put that across quite spectacularly.
Threads like these, even when they start negatively are a brilliant opportunity to show how good you are. I don't agree with the "hiding to nothing" viewpoint, Tonys comments were a gift to even the most basic of marketeers.
P&C would do well to remember that we all have a choice. We can buy the exact same product for the exact same price from numerous sources. If you want the custom, you have to show us why you are so good to deal with and this starts with owning up when things don't go perfectly and putting things right. Most reasonable humans know that we all make mistakes and it's in our nature to want to forgive. To see someone go the extra yard. Gives us a fuzzy feeling which we like, you see.
Blame shift and "I won't reply" is pretty much the textbook "what not to say" response.
I was literally just about to pull the trigger on a Damasko from P&C and now, I just can't do it. Bloody thread. Wish Tony had kept his mouth shut ; )
Where is the fun in that? This thread is a barrel of laughs.
With respect; you were not about to 'literally' pull any form of trigger, unless your debit card looks very different to mine.
An important distinction on here :)
Good job I didn't use "pull the pin" eh?!?
BTW, what is going on with the damasko leather straps? Are they trying to enrich the aftermarket strap industry or what?
Quite, although presumably it would be the Damasko which required the trigger, which is highly unlikely since the gist concerns the future purchase of one.
Ditto Junghans, Nomos. Must be a German thing.
I'm not familiar with the chronograph model , but I have to question whether the watch really did need to have the crown and pushers replaced. The O ring seals used thesedays last a long time, the synthetic rubber is very durable and replacement is often done as a 'matter of course' rather than because the items have deteriorated. However, if they did need replacement it's usually possible to source generic O rings that'll fit the pushers and crown so in most cases they can be sorted out without having to rely on the manufacturer.
That leaves the movement, which is a straightforward proposition for most repairers.
Sounds like a rip-off to me, £380 is crazy to service one of these.
As for Page & Cooper, I've never dealt with them, but it's clear they haven't covered themselves in glory.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 29th November 2016 at 00:22.
There is a German eBay seller that has the same cordovan straps for about £24 inc postage. Bit less than the £70 Nomos are charging.
The strap that my Max Bill came on somehow reminded me of the interior of a Renault 11
^^^ great post ^^^
I don't know about Junghans or Renault but most low to mid priced watches seem to have poor watch straps or overpriced replacements. Stowa being the exception CW as much as they are criticised their straps are pretty good for the money.
The one exception I've had has been Nivrel, the strap that came on is of a quality far beyond any other I've had. Which means I've no idea what kind of price it might have been. Three years old, worn very regularly, and still looking very fresh. I must email them and ask who their supplier is.
I read this thread the first time around and was mildly irritated by how it got out of hand and that nothing much appeared to have happened. Granted I didn't deal with Jonathan at P&C and don't know what their attitude was like over the telephone.
P&C's 'crimes' appeared to be miscommunication of the correct price at the outset (wrong estimate) and sending the watch out with something under the dial, be it a bit of synthetic fibre or fluff or whatever.
The stuff about changing seals at special request and not knowing which grade 7750 was fitted seemed over-blown, as was the dissatisfaction at not receiving a pretentious travel pouch; though lack of paperwork could understandably cause an issue with resale later.
So you think overpricing, poor communication, slow service and shoddy work are something you should expect when you have a watch serviced? Has this kind of disaster become so common that this is what people expect and consider nothing much to have happened? I suppose some consumers are like monkeys, they can be trained to accept pretty much anything.
Yep that's about it really. There's only Panerai who seemingly cross the line by, according to numerous threads, providing 'complimentary' dents in cases. Everything else is fairly standard, fluff under dials, missing paperwork, high prices etc.
However, I can forgive a fledgling microbrand for having some issues.
Last edited by AKM; 29th November 2016 at 22:28.
I guess it is, sigh...
Microbrand?
They're just a retailer surely?
Buy stuff, mark it up, sell stuff.
Some people are very happy to pay a premium for fantastic service, but if that's your rationale for your offering then you better be able to back that up and (especially considering MR P&C's attitude on here) they haven't shown great service or even mild respect for their customer.
I certainly wouldn't pay that premium to fund posh parties in London with beards and free drinks and stuff.
Damasko's the microbrand; P&C are their UK repairer (albeit one that subcontracts).
Damasko haven't been involved in this though have they?
I feel like I'm being a bit mean to P&C but it's not even from Tonys posts, it's the post from P&C which has me shaking my head and I bet the chap doesn't see anything wrong with it!!!!
Never mind, bullet dodged. Bought my Damasko from elsewhere.
Sadly, the root of the issue is down to Damasko in many cases - poor comms. and poor support/customer service.
You just took a bullet from somewhere else..........
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
There's a Damasko forum on Watchuseek if anyone wants to see threads about the brand some of which indicate the firm's communication and quality control. They make some great watches and have many loyal enthusiasts, but aren't infallible.
I wanted a Damasko so I'll have to deal with their obstacles when the time comes, and I might be feeding a retailer who aren't perfect but I don't know that yet so they were worth a crack vs a retailer who I know has a stinky attitude.
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