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Thread: Page and Cooper – Damasko servicing – A warning

  1. #1
    Master Tony's Avatar
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    Page and Cooper – Damasko servicing – A warning

    The question of the servicing of Damaskos in the UK (avoiding a return to Germany) is a perennial question, and fairly recently Damakso’s UK dealer, Page and Cooper, have been given responsibility for this. My DC67 has just been returned from Page and Cooper so I thought I’d report back to the forum.

    I first contacted Page and Cooper in October 2015 and was told the cost of the service would be £280. Not cheap by any means, but not too bad. I’d been reluctant to send the watch to Germany to be serviced and Damasko refuse to supply UK watchmakers with the correct O rings to do the job properly.

    I left it for a months and double-checked the price before sending it in. I was informed that whoever had told me that the price was £280 was wrong – it was in fact £380 (paid upfront before having any work done) to have my DC67 serviced.

    We’re now into the realms of possibly the world’s most expensive stock ETA service. However, I love the watch and plan to keep it. Given that I wanted the job done properly and that Page and Cooper promised an exemplary service I took the decision to bite the bullet and have it done. I posted the watch and awaited a final quote. (It costs £30 just to have it externally inspected.)

    In spite of their promise to do so, Page and Cooper didn’t bother to tell me that my watch had arrived, which was not a good sign. They then had it eleven days before I could get them to give me some idea of the accuracy I could expect from my expensively-serviced watch (+5-+10 secs/day). This all seemed rather vague and I was told that “Every watch is different”. I would have thought that the watch’s uniqueness would be taken account of when regulating it by a half-competent watchmaker.

    They also provided a schedule that said that my crown and pushers would be replaced at service. I wanted to know that these would be replaced by proper Damasko-made (and signed) parts, and that my original parts would be returned. I was informed though that “we do not replace the crown or pushers, with Damasko they have a unique 25 year life.” There seemed to be an awful lot of confusion regarding the extent and details of the service.
    Anyway, I paid Page and Cooper (BACS) and eventually over two weeks after sending them my watch they acknowledged receipt of my money. We agreed the address to which the watch would be sent when it was finished (in 2-3 weeks).

    Nearly four weeks later I asked for progress update, and was told that they would speak to their sub-contracting watchmaker the next day and get back to me then. A week later I had still heard nothing whatsoever. Not a dicky bird.

    Be aware before parting with your cash that unless you’re on the verge of splashing some cash they’ll only usually answer your emails on Tuesday, Wednesdays and Thursdays, when the part-time ‘Head of Operations’ works. Outside of these times you can generally whistle. (If you’re on the verge of parting with cash someone will generally answer straight away of course.)

    Nine days after my inquiry I asked again for an update. I was told it was being tested and that I would receive my watch back in a few days. Nine days later I got my watch back, though not before they tried sending it to an address other than that we’d agreed to weeks before when I sent them my money.
    They also hadn’t provided an answer to the question of whether my watch had an early high-grade 7750 movement fitted, though when prompted they said they’d been in touch with Nadja Damasko and she’d said the movement on my watch was standard. (Two years previously, Nadja had written to me saying she didn’t know.)

    No warranty details, no paperwork, no nice packaging – just my watch in a cardboard box, along with a little plastic bag containing the old O rings and – you guessed it – my old crown and pushers!

    Given the cost of the service in relation to the watch I would have thought that some warranty paperwork was a pretty minimal expectation. The lack of it struck me as amateurish.

    The other little present that was included was a hair underneath the crystal, obvious at the most cursory of glances. Had nobody looked it over before sending it back after almost nine weeks at service? If the dial looked like that, then what had they added to the movement? Back it goes.
    Another period of silence ensued before I was told (in response to an email) that my watch would be returned. Another two days later I received my watch. It had taken over two weeks to remove a hair.

    This time all seems okay, albeit the watch runs over +5 secs/day. As everyone knows, a 7750 is far capable of better.
    I had to ask yet again for warranty paperwork. I eventually received something over email.

    The service took a grand total of eleven weeks and two days. You can make your own mind up about whether Page and Cooper had done a good job. They seem to think they have. To me, they act like a bunch of chancers and part-time amateurs. Not what I expected when I agreed to pay top money.

    It’s all very disappointing, especially given that Damasko make such great watches. Unfortunately it seems that the association with Page and Cooper is dragging their reputation through the mud.

    I feel like I’ve been turned over, and I feel foolish to say the least. Beware.

  2. #2
    Master
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    Thanks for the info Tony i was about to order a DC 66 SI from Page and Cooper , i wont bother now.

  3. #3
    Grand Master
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    Crikey that sounds an ordeal!!, were the new crown and pushers genuine damasko?



    mike

  4. #4
    Master Tony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Crikey that sounds an ordeal!!, were the new crown and pushers genuine damasko?



    mike
    To be fair, yes they were. It was just worrying that Page and Cooper seem to have absolutely no idea what's going on when they send your watch to their sub-contractor.

  5. #5
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Send in the clowns.
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  6. #6
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    Sorry to hear that.

    From your account it would seem like they have been sent a stock of parts from Damasko and are subsequently dumping customers watches on a local watchmaker, without managing the process in the manner of a factory service.

    P&C read the forum so hopefully they can improve things.

  7. #7
    Master Tony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeOut View Post

    P&C read the forum so hopefully they can improve things.
    I'm not sure they're capable of improving. They seem to genuinely think they've provided a good service to me and can't see why I think I've been turned over.

  8. #8
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Perhaps you could send this narrative to Damasko themselves?

  9. #9
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    How frustrating, a 7750 must be easy for any competent watchmaker to service and parts are plentiful, but add in a 'special gasket ' that only they can supply with their service and you are locked in. I know it's a road that all the makers are going down now but it's taking the piss somewhat. That gasket probably cost you £200 over an independent service ( whom they sub contracted to anyway )
    Cheers..
    Jase

  10. #10
    Doesn't shower them with glory does it?!


    I'm wondering why you used them at all? Plenty of good independent so here and beyond.....

  11. #11
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Doesn't shower them with glory does it?!


    I'm wondering why you used them at all? Plenty of good independent so here and beyond.....
    Special o rings needed apparently.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  12. #12
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    Very pricey my Rolex didn't cost much more to service

  13. #13
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    Doesn't read well at all. Couple of questions if I may, what was the concern with sending to Germany and what price would Damasko themselves have charged?

    I don't think your dissatisfaction is tricky to understand so would definitely be highlighting this post to both Damasko and the CEO or similar of P&C. My Damasko won't be going there without some suggestion they've improved!

  14. #14
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    What a shame. Thanks for sharing this. I had been under the impression that they had their own in house watch repairers. Has anyone else had their watches serviced at P&C? I was going to start sending them one or two of mine but this rather puts me off.

    Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

  15. #15
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    I wonder, given the lead times, if P&G didn't just return it to Germany themselves.

  16. #16
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave O'Sullivan View Post
    I wonder, given the lead times, if P&G didn't just return it to Germany themselves.
    OP states p and c mention a 'sub contracting watch maker'
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

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    A Damasko AD should not even offer a service other than the manufacturer option - end of.

    The reason many go via an AD is to take away the worry of the owner sending direct - passing on the responsibility so to speak.

    I'd also wager P&C make money on the independent repairer, who is obviously not up to the job. Poor, poor show.

    Based on this post alone, I'd never use Page & Cooper.

  18. #18
    Sorry to hear about your shoddy treatment
    I guess their independent watch repairer receives a tiny fraction of that cost
    That price is very high and with that you rightly expected :
    A; decent customer service
    B; a competent job
    C; some better packaging and presentation of your watch
    I hope it's all ok now and you get many years worth of worry free enjoyment

  19. #19
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    Lol, it cost me £480 to service my Rolex Daytona Zenith 1 year ago at Rolex St James, no way im paying £380 for SUCH A SH*TTY service and poor crafstmanship.

    Thank you OP for making this clear. I watched some of P&C videos but when I contacted them, they come across as abit amateurish sometimes and even snobby. Their higher prices I now know are not justified at all. He made a huge case about P&C being able to service watches in UK. No way I will ever service with them.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    The question of the servicing of Damaskos in the UK (avoiding a return to Germany).
    What was the point of avoiding a return to Germany? Is there a postal strike or something?

  21. #21
    Master dejjl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandS View Post
    What was the point of avoiding a return to Germany? Is there a postal strike or something?
    Added risk of international transit, but I think you knew that.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix View Post
    Lol, it cost me £480 to service my Rolex Daytona Zenith 1 year ago at Rolex St James, no way im paying £380 for SUCH A SH*TTY service and poor crafstmanship.

    Thank you OP for making this clear. I watched some of P&C videos but when I contacted them, they come across as abit amateurish sometimes and even snobby. Their higher prices I now know are not justified at all. He made a huge case about P&C being able to service watches in UK. No way I will ever service with them.
    That's a great price, AFAIK a standard 3 hand movement service is around £450.00 now

  23. #23
    I'm sure P&C had a plan to service Sinn watches themselves, or is this another case of outsourcing to a watchmaker with access to the right parts? Personally I really like the look of the Damasko range, but stories like this re parts and servicing - and the issues which stopped Eddie supplying them - have put me right off ever owning one. Perhaps this kind of issue is down to small boutique watchmakers expanding, and the inevitable growing pains - but it doesn't fill me with confidence!

  24. #24
    Master Geralt's Avatar
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    That's appalling. Thanks for the heads up. Was always under the impression that P & C were a decent outfit and, been very tempted to buy a Sinn 104 from them. After all this, they do sound like a bunch of half-baked CBA amateurs, so best avoided I reckon. As suggested above, I'd be inclined to forward your post on to Damasko for their comments. Hope the experience doesn't take any enjoyment out of the watch (I think it would for me).

  25. #25
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    They said to me that they could now service all Sinns except the oil filled ones. Also that they had a Breitling certified service engineer.

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

  26. #26
    Master AM94's Avatar
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    Good to read some insight into Page and Cooper and proof that although it is easy to sell a watch, the level of post-purchase customer service is often what a company will be judged on.

    I'd also suggest that Damasko need to be ensuring that the companies they have appointed to sell their product are delivery a level of service that Damasko themselves are comfortable with. Without this, the perception of their brand and quality of both watch and service could be rapidly tarnished.

  27. #27
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael 38 View Post
    Very pricey my Rolex didn't cost much more to service
    That was my reaction.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AM94 View Post
    Good to read some insight into Page and Cooper and proof that although it is easy to sell a watch, the level of post-purchase customer service is often what a company will be judged on.

    I'd also suggest that Damasko need to be ensuring that the companies they have appointed to sell their product are delivery a level of service that Damasko themselves are comfortable with. Without this, the perception of their brand and quality of both watch and service could be rapidly tarnished.
    Damasko are not exactly famous for their communications and customer service (based upon certain threads on here and WUS).

  29. #29
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    I enquired a few months ago about a sinn t2b and spoke to a guy there about it.

    Thankfully something else came up that I really wanted, so I didn't proceed (may have even dodged a bullet there)

    On the basis of what I have heard today I don't think I will ever consider buying from them in the future

    Poor form I say

  30. #30
    Shocking story and disgraceful work by whoever actually did the service.

    As to the replies saying my Rolex didn't cost much more - why should it? Takes the same amount of time to service an ETA as a Rolex movement surely? I guess the extra paid for the Rolex service covers the case refurb (and the lack of added hair).

  31. #31
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Damasko are famous for having no customer service whatsoever, so I'm guessing that P&C were somehow caught in the middle of this, but still – must try harder.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus fenix View Post
    Shocking story and disgraceful work by whoever actually did the service.

    As to the replies saying my Rolex didn't cost much more - why should it? Takes the same amount of time to service an ETA as a Rolex movement surely? I guess the extra paid for the Rolex service covers the case refurb (and the lack of added hair).
    Mate are you serious LOL

    Rolex takes apart the entire movement, certifies it for 2 years, a Daytona is a far more sophisticated chronograph than a 7750, vertical clutch, column wheel etc. You saying that if I service my Patek nautilus with a 324, which is "essentially" the same as an ETA 2894, it should cost the same???

    The point is that I would pay £500 to get a rolex serviced by rolex because I KNOW they wont have hairs, botch it up etc, and in the event they do, they will rectify it. I would no way pay £380 to get a Damasko serviced, that is almost 40-50% of the value of the entire watch....

  33. #33
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Paging page and cooper, paging page and cooper....
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  34. #34
    Master AM94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phil h View Post
    Damasko are not exactly famous for their communications and customer service (based upon certain threads on here and WUS).
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Damasko are famous for having no customer service whatsoever, so I'm guessing that P&C were somehow caught in the middle of this, but still – must try harder.
    If that is the case, why give either company business?

    Finding a good quality watch and great customer service isn't challenging.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by phil h View Post
    Damasko are not exactly famous for their communications and customer service (based upon certain threads on here and WUS).
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Damasko are famous for having no customer service whatsoever, so I'm guessing that P&C were somehow caught in the middle of this, but still – must try harder.
    Quote Originally Posted by AM94 View Post
    If that is the case, why give either company business?
    Agreed.

    If your support aspects lets you down - bin them. But it’s all about the sales I guess in this case, because they can blame someone else.

  36. #36
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    I've only ever had two retailers be rude to me, after ordering something in stock that it turns out actually wasn't and yet somehow my expectations were too high, and one of those was P&C.

    The other was a two bit computer components firm.

    Neither will ever see a penny of my money.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus fenix View Post
    Shocking story and disgraceful work by whoever actually did the service.

    As to the replies saying my Rolex didn't cost much more - why should it? Takes the same amount of time to service an ETA as a Rolex movement surely? I guess the extra paid for the Rolex service covers the case refurb (and the lack of added hair).
    The Rolex service price does include a 2 year warranty, which is a plus, but doesn't cover the case refurbishment, it's complimentary and optional. Oh and hairless.
    Or in business terms, the refurbishment is a hidden/non itemised cost which everyone pays whether you have your watch externals cleaned up or not

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix View Post
    Mate are you serious LOL

    Rolex takes apart the entire movement, certifies it for 2 years, a Daytona is a far more sophisticated chronograph than a 7750, vertical clutch, column wheel etc. You saying that if I service my Patek nautilus with a 324, which is "essentially" the same as an ETA 2894, it should cost the same???

    The point is that I would pay £500 to get a rolex serviced by rolex because I KNOW they wont have hairs, botch it up etc, and in the event they do, they will rectify it. I would no way pay £380 to get a Damasko serviced, that is almost 40-50% of the value of the entire watch....
    Always a problem servicing cheaper watches - it costs a significant proportion of the value. But to service a 7750 Duncan Potter (Genesis) charges £355 vs £470 for an El Primero so, if the job were done right, the actual charge doesn't seem too wrong.

  39. #39
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    It's unbelievable in this day and age that companies can be so abysmal at communication with customers. It's honestly one of my biggest beefs - but also one of the most satisfying things to me when a company can get it right. How hard can be it be to actually READ emails from customers and answer their questions?

    Are they completely oblivious to the fact that there are large communities of watch enthusiasts who talk with each other? Are they oblivious to the existence of the internet, where people search for information on companies like this before they send in their money and have work done or make purchases? And how a couple of bad reviews or bad comments is all it takes for someone to look elsewhere?

    Utter lunacy.

  40. #40
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicaneuk View Post
    It's unbelievable in this day and age that companies can be so abysmal at communication with customers. It's honestly one of my biggest beefs - but also one of the most satisfying things to me when a company can get it right. How hard can be it be to actually READ emails from customers and answer their questions?

    Are they completely oblivious to the fact that there are large communities of watch enthusiasts who talk with each other? Are they oblivious to the existence of the internet, where people search for information on companies like this before they send in their money and have work done or make purchases? And how a couple of bad reviews or bad comments is all it takes for someone to look elsewhere?

    Utter lunacy.
    What he said ^^^
    I can kind of forgive poor customer service from damasko because i imagine them all to be boffins with pointy heads who never leave the laboratory, but poor comms like that described above from a dedicated retailer like page and cooper is pretty much unforgiveable
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  41. #41
    In the past few weeks we have had JLC, Panerai, Citizen threads and now Squale/Damasko/Page and Cooper.

    In these difficult economic times I do wonder why companies are treating their customers so poorly.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    In the past few weeks we have had JLC, Panerai, Citizen threads and now Squale/Damasko/Page and Cooper.

    In these difficult economic times I do wonder why companies are treating their customers so poorly.
    I assume JLC and Panerai's core clients are not geeks like us....

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix View Post
    I assume JLC and Panerai's core clients are not geeks like us....
    You are correct. They simply hand their watch to their butler when it needs a repair or service. Any sordid business that happens after that is not their concern and of course their butler would not dream of annoying them with any tales of woe that may arise when dealing with those companies. After all, Sir has more important things on his mind, such as his companies in Panama, etc...

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    In the past few weeks we have had JLC, Panerai, Citizen threads and now Squale/Damasko/Page and Cooper.

    In these difficult economic times I do wonder why companies are treating their customers so poorly.
    Don't forget we are but a small percentage of the market, therefore the tiny snapshot of poor service is no real measure of overall performance. And bad news / service is always highlighted above good / ok levels of customer satisfaction
    Of course this is of no comfort if it's you being 'done over' by the industry
    Last edited by nunya; 26th May 2016 at 12:28.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix View Post
    I assume JLC and Panerai's core clients are not geeks like us....
    Quote Originally Posted by GrandS View Post
    You are correct. They simply hand their watch to their butler when it needs a repair or service. Any sordid business that happens after that is not their concern and of course their butler would not dream of annoying them with any tales of woe that may arise when dealing with those companies. After all, Sir has more important things on his mind, such as his companies in Panama, etc...
    OMG, where do you get the energy for all the BS? you must be a very tired and smelly troll indeed.
    And how very dare you!!
    JLC & PAM owners like myself do nothing of what you have described above.
    A good butler should know when your watch needs to be serviced or repaired and take care of it without any need for the physical effort of handing it over to him running the risk of actually touching a commoner's hand, even if gloved, this isn't some third world backwater don't you know

  46. #46
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    Bought my DA46 from Page & Cooper, their website gives the impression that the watches are in stock but in fact they are ordered from Germany, mine took over 3 weeks to arrive.
    Will not be using them to get it serviced.

  47. #47
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    There was a time when companies assumed that providing service and support was part of the cost of doing business, to be factored-in to the overall price of goods: but then accountants discovered the notion of 'profit centres' and servicing became another way of making money. The result was entirely predictable.

  48. #48
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
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    Butler? A gentleman's watch should be attended to by his valet, who should be capable of servicing a watch himself, to be done whilst his master is sleeping, silently returning the watch to his master's bedside table during the sleeping hours and thus ensuring no loss of wrist time. Just what standard of service are you people tolerating?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    Paging page and cooper, paging page and cooper....
    This^^ It would be nice to hear from them. My own impressions of them were very positive, even though I ended up cancelling the order due to Sinn's inability to deliver in the time frames they set. I found them polite and helpful and it would be nice to think that the OP's experience was a glitch that could be quickly sorted out.

  50. #50
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Seems weird that Damasko restrict access to parts, but are happy for those companies that they will supply parts to to subcontract the work. If keeping things in-house is supposed to guarantee quality, this behavious makes it totally pointless.

    Except from the financial pov, which sees Damasko, P&C and the servicing company all having the opportunity to gouge the customer.

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