Reply With QuoteNever heard of 'double SWISS' before. One for the personal collection Haywood?
This landed on my desk today, a 5513 with case number under a million, III.63 case back and 1530 calibre. London service marks from 1971. It may have a new bezel and bracelet, but the gilt and silver double-SWISS dial with underline, PCG and crown all tickled me !
Values may be unpleasantly high, but these are rare little birds.
Haywood M
Never heard of 'double SWISS' before. One for the personal collection Haywood?
you've just made me realise how much I miss my old metres first Sub! :(
lovely watch
What do you think ?Originally Posted by demonloop
Thanks to all for comments, H
Beautiful, I love the colour of the lume!!
A rare bird indeed. Very nice.
A peach of a Sub, very nice.
Eye candy! So nice watch! Love the patina!
Haywood - stupid question time. I presume these are unearthed as people die (long forgotten watches in drawers etc)? How do you 'get to them first' as it were, or do they tend to come to you simply via your reputation?
Fascinated by the whole vintage Rolex thing. Thanks so much for posting, really enjoy these threads
Over the last few years the vintage rolex bug has got me and thats a stunner😆😉
Some more info has just come from the seller. The watch was supplied to one of the 1960s UK Challengers for the Americas Cup, a man I have found documented in various resources. Lovely provenance!
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/so...y/americas+cup
As to how one obtains watches like this, I am sure anyone fortunate enough to pick up the odd piece as I do would agree that there is no magic font of vintage delights. A reputation, strong offers, multiple contacts, a lot of hard work and quite some financial chutzpah at times all help. While I do run four pawnbroking stores, not a single one of my collection came from the pawnbroking departments. Even I find this strange, though in my earliest days we did have a rather shabby mil sub in.
H
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 10th May 2016 at 15:00.
Very interesting, thanks for responding. However you do it, please keep finding 'em and posting the pics!
That dial and hand set must be worth a fortune on their own..
Haywood, I think it would be fascinating to see a picture of your personal collection and some of the stories and provenance behind the watches.. Hopefully one day
^^ +1000000
Beauty 😊
Very nice dial - it does make me wonder why the following mid 60's gilt version of the 5513 has the dial cornonet applied more or less as smudge when this earlier one is so well defined in that department.
No macro lenses or watch fora back in those days! Also different dial makers used, and the printing method itself allowed the same imprint to be heavier or lighter depending on the loading of ink.
My life would be empty if they hadn't planned such small differences for me.
H
Absolutely stunning, assuming it has some none-original parts would you look to source the correct bits and build a 'complete' example? just curious.
I will more commonly just keep such a watch as I find it. Others may hold such a find secret until they have replaced the parts....and then reveal it to the world, without comment. Not for me, that.
H
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 10th May 2016 at 19:32.
I like that a lot. Lovely patina.
Count me into the admirers; really like the whole feel of that!
Gorgeous looking watch, love everything about it. Do you know the value of it?
Rob….
A lovely, lovely thing. I don't suppose we'll see it on SC anytime soon
Very nice indeed Haywood.
mike
I'm a bit new to all this. I just like the pretty colours.
Brilliant, as is the watch!
You have come to the right place.
Someone will come along to help you out.
In any case, out of the goodness of my heart I will offer you $1000 for this knackered watch and you can buy a lot of colorful watches with it😜😜
Sorry, my first reply was a tad facetious. Thankyou for the compliment. As for value, may we just say that it's a five figure watch? There can of course be no exact figure, as it is worth only what a willing buyer and seller will agree.
There is no "willing seller" here!
H
For those interested, there is one inGeneva Watch Auction on Phillips watches.
Looks in much better nick ( not sure if it is all original) , their estimate CHF 40,000-80,000.
Would be interesting to see what it goes for.
I prefer this one for the record. The one on the auction site looks too clean.
A real treasure this one.
Understandably, HM may not be inclined to tell us how it landed on his desk or what he paid for it but would be interesting to know.
Regardless, many thanks for sharing it here. The world of vintage subs and SDs is very alluring.
Stunning watch Haywood, the matching patina on the dial and hands is superb. I am sure that there are people on here who would regard the watch as trashed, but my first thought was that the dial looked really clean. The underline and double Swiss are a nice touch. I have seen images of that combination on a GMT, but not on a Submariner.
I take it PCG is pointed crown guards. Are those the same as on the early 5512s that collectors are willing to sell their kids for in order to get hold of.
Interested to know how you feel on a personal level when 'yet another' for the collection turns up. Is it straight in safe and forget about it or do you have the urge to wear it for a few days and enjoy looking at it.
Those folk might be planning to sell on of course, and the more original a watch appears to be, the higher the price I assume.
Agreed, all the variances and slow pace of change over the years does make vintage Rolex interesting (if that's what you like of course) but the coronet on this one only a few years later doesn't look like progress to me!
Always enjoy your posts Haywood, mainly I think just because your knowledge and genuine interest shine through along with a very readable style of writing.
I do find the value attributed to older Rolexs a little perplexing especially for watches that are unlikely to be worn. I do note the pearl is in tact though which is more than can be said for most I've seen of late. Apparently even the new ones are quite expensive to replace :)
Last edited by deepreddave; 10th May 2016 at 22:53.
Sorry (flame suit on) I don't see the attraction
May I refer you to the title of the thread?
That's absolutely lovely. Excuse the ignorance but what's PCG?
pointed crown guards as per close up photo
Pointy crown guards.
Cheers..
Jase
'Pointed crown guards' mate.
There's an echo in here - see #31
Also, can I be educated too - What's 'Double Swiss' ?
look at the bottom of the dial
If you look at the bottom of the watch below the number 6 and zoom in - you will see Swiss twice, hence double Swiss.
Ooh - I can see that now, I thought it was a reflection at first glance. Thanks.
Why was that done then?
Well, the thing is that the way they "turn up" is most unpredictable and often requires diligent work which has to be carried out immediately at the expense of all else. It is too easy to miss a good watch for the mere sake of not being able to settle fast enough on one's answers or offer.
If presented with a rare and potentially very valuable model that you may not have handled before and where very few images exist (who is to say which if any of those images are correct, too?), then how do you go about confirming or disproving your instinct that the watch is correct? Even if you know the dial or case is right, what about the other parts? If all genuine, are they contemporary or have parts been swapped?
What is the story behind the seller and the watch, and what are the circumstances of the sale?
Some like haggling. I hate it both as a buyer and a seller, so I'm coming up with one offer or one sell price and that's it. Perhaps I enjoy the thrill of that binary outcome. *
If I think its full worth is £1,000 shall I offer £400 because no-one local will offer more, £750 because that somehow feels fair, £600 because that's what the seller will accept, or (where it is one like this that I'd really fancy) do I offer £900.....and risk exciting the seller into thinking it is worth more again so that he chooses not to sell yet and perhaps to try it at auction?
This happened with my 6536-1: the seller wanted more but I wouldn't budge, so he tried his hand at auction only to return 6 months later and accept what I had first suggested. In no way do I criticise the seller for doing so and I would happily pay any such prodigal owner with the same grace as if my price had been accepted on the spot, but it is gratifying when patience, research and holding one's nerve pays off :
I will not forget the apologetic words of someone who sold us his business "I have only one bite of the cherry, so I have to try to get the very best I can." I have seen the same fear in a number of sellers who knew they had a rare and valuable watch. How can one instil confidence that they are getting a fair price?
The research, the risk, the "chase" if you will, the human story, the provenance, the price-setting, the deal : this is the first encounter and the foreplay that are the most exciting part of ownership for me.
If you've read all my worthless thoughts above then you deserve at least another couple of pics of today's prize :
Just look how that SWISS text stands out, even under an overcast and dusky sky.
Haywood
* There are never enough opportunities for my favourite maths joke : "There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary numbers and those who do not."
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 10th May 2016 at 22:43.
Ha-ha! Well I did try to warn you with the title of the thread, but your position is completely valid. It's just a watch, and a tired and aged one at that. It won't cure an illness or cheer my child when he is upset, it is an anachronism in a digital age of mobile telephones and a perverse store of value in a rich man's game.
Yet, still, it is a watch with an exceptionally rare dial and significant provenance both generically and individually, this one specifically having been a part of sailing history (a sport I enjoy myself).
It brings me pleasure to be able to risk my own judgement, research, buy and own such a thing. The 5513 is an iconic Rolex model and this is one of the earliest.
The original owner's relative stated that the Americas Cup protagonists were "issued" with these watches. This is an emotive term for Rolex collectors and as it cannot yet be established I chose not to include it in my earlier account. It is, though, an exciting and credible possibility. The 5512 (1959) and 5513 (1962) were significant new models in the professional line and one can well imagine that Rolex would associate themselves with the most significant and highest profile participants in a relevant field. There was no dandy Yachtmaster available then, of course.
I fully respect your position, which is one I feel towards modern art, american cars and expensive clothes.
Haywood
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 10th May 2016 at 22:38.
Thanks for that Haywood and the extra images, which show the watch in an even better light than your original post. I have to add that the bezel insert on that 6536-1 is just wonderful.
What a bloomin' lovely reply :) what a gent.Ha-ha! Well I did try to warn you with the title of the thread, but your position is completely valid. It's just a watch, and a tired and aged one at that. It won't cure an illness or cheer my child when he is upset, it is an anachronism in a digital age of mobile telephones and a perverse store of value in a rich man's game.
Yet, still, it is a watch with an exceptionally rare dial and significant provenance both generically and individually, this one having been a part of sailing history (a sport I enjoy myself). It brings me pleasure to be able to risk my own judgement, to buy, own and research such a thing.
I full respect your position, which is one I feel towards modern art, american cars and expensive clothes.
Haywood
Although I personally don't see the attraction it is clear that vintage Rolex in particular resonate on the forum. PS if I ever find a milsub for sale at a grand, in the forum spirit I will sell on at that price
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