Reply With QuoteSorry to hear your watch got stolen. I can't offer any advice but am interested to see how you get on with claiming this back. Good luck in your quest.
Hi all,
I have just suscribed on your forum because it seems to be the best one for UK watch collectors.
I apologize if I post this thread in the wrong part of the forum and sorry for my english too.
Here is my story:
I got many watches stolen during a robbery at my home in France in may 2015.
One of them was a Blancpain Fifty Fathoms BUND.
I saw it for sale at Watches of Knightsbridge in november (http://whitelabel.globalauctionplatf...fknightsbridge).
I asked them to remove it from the auction as it was a stolen watch and they did so.
It is now really difficult to claim it. French police contacted English police through Interpol and the MET Police started to investigate a few days ago. Strangely, the police told me there was a unique serial on this watch. An information that was never shared by Watches of Knightsbridge. Now the MET Police tells me they do not want to investigate further. They advise me to employee a lawyer in the UK and seek to sue them through the civil courts.
Please see pictures of the watch auctioned and mine, aren't they similar?
Here the receipt of a revision in 2009 (I have blurred name/address).
- hit on the case between 2 and 3
- hit in the bezel between 5 and 6
- hit on the case at 8
- hit on the right lug
- overall patina on the hands
I would definitely need some help here to claim my watch.
Thank you.
Sorry to hear your watch got stolen. I can't offer any advice but am interested to see how you get on with claiming this back. Good luck in your quest.
Did you claim on any insurance policy? They may be interested as if you did as this is technically now their watch, they would or should have a mechanism in place to retrieve it.
Best of luck with this. Disgraceful the Met Police have no interest in investigating, surely the French police do still?
Would it not be simpler to check the serial numbers rather than dents?
+1 on it not being your problem if you have already had insurance payout unless you want to buy it back from the insurance company
I would want to know how they got this watch. The person who took it to auction needs to be questioned and investigated until who stole it comes out. How can the police just let this go? If this is the case, stealing watches has never been easier or more profitable.
Last edited by svaglic; 21st April 2016 at 20:05.
Thank you for your answers.
As for insurance, this watch was claimed stolen (2 French police complaints + 1 insurance) but I got nothing from the insurance, so this is still mine. More precisely, a few watches got stolen (Tudor Sub, Rolex Air King, Turnograph) and my insurance value for personal items at home was a bit understimated. So they decided to cover the maximum and we chose watches that were bought new from official retailers. That's more convenient for the insurance because my Blancpain was bought from a watch collector. I could provide official invoices for the other ones and the refund from insurance was faster.
Regarding the serial number, mine got none I think. I am stealing dealing this with Blancpain and their archives. But Watches of Knightsbridge never specified any serial number on their watch. That's a bit weird.
Consequently, I am sharing pictures with watch collectors to share points of view. Do you think these are the same watches? I would definitely hire an watch expert to draw some conclusions on this question.
If my story can help collectors, please avoid my mistakes:
- keep lots of pictures of your watches with serial numbers and maximum info
- check all our insurance policies to know what would happen if you got stolen (in your car, home, street...)
- keep all paper/documentation online and maybe copies in a safe
Just a thought, but how much does the Met Police know about NSNs? Could they mistake 6645-12-... for a "serial number"...?
Some BUNDs have a serial between the two lugs. They told me the watch they reviewed got one. They did not share much to be honest and the auction house did not give me any info about this. I asked several times where the vendor got this watch, other pictures of the watch, maybe a certificate of ownership but no one answered those questions.
All info I got are on the auction listing: 2 pictures and a description without a SN.
Wow, the two watches sure look the same. Hope you get a good resolution to this!
Hey there,
sounds like a total bust, you may want to have a read of this, similar thing, and the guy involved looks to be having a total nightmare!
http://quillandpad.com/2016/03/30/sh...h-no-185500-2/
In my opinion you have a solid case.
Find a lawyer and try to solve it out of court if they don't comply suit them.
If they can not prove a lawful transaction they are in deep sh1t ;)
My sympathies; this is pretty horrid stuff. Can I just clarify one point...are you saying that the watch had no unique serial number? Didn't Blancpain use serial numbers with these watches? Or have I misunderstood?
Thanks for your support, really appreciate it.
Gosthy > this story is really interesting indeed, I share both point of view. Antiquorum's investigation before an auction seems very poor. It is a bit scary.
Lambros > If it was in France, I would know how to hire a lawyer for this issue. I am looking for some advice on how to proceed in the UK.
Paskinner > There is a lot serial (we share the same) and some have also a specific serial between lungs it seems. I do not remember mine having one engraved in the steel (maybe was it polished? the watch is +40 years old). That's the reason why I am asking for a confirmation from Blancpain when the watch was on revision. I am still waiting for their answer.
With all the details shown on the pictures, I do not know how could they think these are two different watches? I would need opinion.
I could recommend a very good lawyer who is also a watch collector and no doubt very interested in helping you.......
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What have Watches of Knightsbridge said to you?
Are they holding it or planning to hand it to the police or return it to you?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I would definitely be interested, thank you.Originally Posted by nickg
BillyCasper > They are still holding it. They seemed to plan to hand it to the police but they took very long time (auction was in november 2015). I had to get the French police, and Interpol, contact them to make things happen. The MET police decided to investigate 2 weeks ago but now wants to stop because I can't confirm if mine got a serial number. I do not understand why all my pictures, paper from blancpain, complaint in France are not enough to investigate further (maybe they could hand it to a watch expert) and ask the vendor where he got this watch. My last two emails (and phone calls) to Watches of Knightsbridge remained unanswered.
This is sad, and deeply frustrating for you. I think the police are asking whether you can prove this particular watch is yours.... Without a serial number, similarities on the case are unlikely to be enough.
That sounds very negative, for which I apologise. But without a serial number or any specific link between this watch and the French burglary, it will be an uphill task.
What you could do is get a lawyer to write to the auctioneers requesting proof that the seller has legal title. After all, UK companies are required to take reasonable measures to prevent crime. Trouble is, they can reply that the police have investigated and are satisfied......
Not easy at all.
Really feel for you.
Hope it works out.
I also share your point of view, you are right, not an easy task. Thank you for your advice.
Maybe I am asking too much but I have provided lots of pictures - couldn't they investigate a little more? It is very unlikely that those 2 watches are not the same one. Too many similarities can't be a coincidence.
Plus, searching only for a SN is not always the right answer: easy to add one, easy to make one disappear ect. I know I am biaised, this watch means a lot to me, my first vintage watch, a long trip to Zurich to get it... I am bit disappointed. :)
I am sure it will be very difficult to get it back.
Definitely not an easy task... All the best with this difficult situation.
This is it. Let's kick some as5!
Terrible news and I hope it all sorts out....
On a separate note, the Met Police are shocking. My girlfriends home got broken into, they stole a bunch of stuff including a 2015 C Class, and they did NOTHING for the investigation. They even used my debit cards in Tescos, Petrol stations, nothing. Crime really pays huh?
The auction house will have likely covered themselves with a non-liability clause when buying/checking so I feel for you as they might not have responsibility to act, other than in good faith.
Have you written to them and had a response back?
Difficult situation, but there's still hope. I think you are lucky to have tracked down your stolen watch. Good luck!
Sounds like a very difficult and frustrating situation. I wish you the best of luck
The second picture in the auctioneer's catalogue seems to be higher definition. There appears to be very distinct scratches on the bezel between 8 and 9. Were these scratches there when in your possession? If yes, do you have a good photograph?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Last edited by BillyCasper; 22nd April 2016 at 19:41.
I found some of my possessions, stolen during a burglary, at a collectors fair in London. They were being sold by a dealer who also operated on Portobello. He had bought them at one of the big 'reputable' auctions. The auctioneer was also there at the fair, with back catalogues, one of which included my possessions. The behaviours of the organiser of the collectors fair (a weasel) and representative of the 'reputable' auction house (a pompous toff) were breath taking, shocking. The Police had to pay an entrance fee (which I covered) to get in to the fair. I won't go near collectors fairs, antiques markets, auctioneers now.
Nobody prosecuted.
Last edited by BillyCasper; 22nd April 2016 at 20:03.
Agreed, MET police got so much cases to deal with, they're completely overrun, they simply pick the stuff they feel worth pursing, all else gets cast aside, which is very sad, but a reflection of the issues we have in the UK. Burglary is very low on the list of things to look at.
Good luck getting your watch back, I'm sad you have to deal with UK authorities.
I'm shocked with the posts in this thread
Marks on the minute hand and in a number of positions around the bezel (10,11 and 2) suggest that the photos are on the same watch.... I hope you can get it back !
Then perhaps finding the items again just causes more hassle and negative emotions
Thank you all for the support. I will keep you updated.
ukmidnite > thank you for the tips, I will keep them.
I didn't set out to search for them and was quite surprised when I came across them. What should I have done, shrug my shoulders?Then perhaps finding the items again just causes more hassle and negative emotions
The conclusion I came to was that the supply chain in my own circumstance knows exactly what goes on, the origin of goods and hides behind a veneer of respectability.
Last edited by BillyCasper; 23rd April 2016 at 06:20.
Duplicate - Odd things happening
Last edited by BillyCasper; 23rd April 2016 at 07:21.
I hope that you get the legal advice you are looking for.
I was thinking what I would do in similar circumstances:
1. Register the loss with the Art Loss Register http://www.artloss.com/services/the-watch-register-2
2 Write to the person or organisation in possession of the watch and hand deliver the letter or send it recorded delivery:
a) Asserting ownership of the watch
b) Describing the unique characteristics by which I identify it as mine. I don't think that a serial number is essential. Many types of stolen goods do not have unique reference numbers
c) Stating where and when I took possession of the watch
d) Where and when it was stolen and giving the French Police crime reference and details of the investigating officer
3 Give the person or organisation in possession of the watch two options:
a) Return it to me or make it available for collection by DD MM YYYY
b) Take it to the British Police, giving details of who handed it over to them and get a crime reference. Demand that they give me the British Police crime reference.
Unfortunately, you're not the first to encounter difficulties. See: Shady Dealings? And read about how "Antiquorum had sold one of Nicolas’ watches: the A. Lange & Söhne Langematik Anniversary watch no. 185/500."
Those seem like good ideas.
If legal action becomes necessary then it seems to me that a French lawyer with experience of EU cross border legal cases and/or UK law is likely to be critical. The European Small Claims Procedure might be useful but, if not, it will be down to beginning a case directly in the UK courts and/or putting more pressure on the Metropolitan Police to take action (which a lawyer might also be useful with).
Bad news sorry for your loss
There is one other, slightly desperate, approach you might consider. Approach some of the newspaper Consumer pages....The telegraph and Guardian are quite lively. Explain you are a Frenchman trying to get fair treatment from an English company which uses weasel words to evade its responsibilities.
Sometimes they will pick up the tale, in which case the auctioneers will soon have a change of heart......I wouldn't hire a lawyer, the costs would be too great.
The whole thing is miserable. The key bit of bad luck is the absence of a serial number to prove ownership. Anyway, Good luck.
Last edited by paskinner; 24th April 2016 at 21:09.
They know you won't hire a lawyer. Those watches look exactly the same to me.
Sorry for your loss/troubles but do not send any important documents by recorded delivery, choose the more expensive registered delivery service, from my experience (missing will documents) a recorded service is just a recorded signature, a registered service tracks the item from at least 3 or 4 points i.e received at Post Office counter, received at the Paris Mail Centre, received at London Mail Centre & received at Delivery Office.
All the best.
Thank you all for your support.
Unfortunately, no good news to share. I am still looking to get information from the auction house but very difficult to communicate with them.
The vendor has had my personal info (the auction house gave him my personal phone and email) since a week and he has not contacted me.
The police will no longer investigate it seems. It looks like a dead end.
Very, very frustrating. Infuriating even. But it seems to come down to one point: Can you prove the watch is yours? I doubt that some surface marks would be sufficient. The unusual thing here is the lack of a serial number, which is really bad luck.
If you can't show that this watch is yours, then I am afraid you will need to walk away, bitter as that is. Very bitter indeed.
Do you think that the pictures show the same watch?
If all these details are not enough, then It is really easy to sell stolen watches. If there is a serial number, they only need to erase it or change it.
They do look very 'similar' indeed. But you would ultimately have to convince a court, and you could face all sorts of obstructive behaviour...for instance suppose they claimed that your initial picture could not be proved to be genuine?
Without serial numbers it could become just one word against another..... I'm on your side, and I suspect it is the same watch, but proving it is quite another matter.
Without spending quite a lot of money on a lawyer, you are reliant on the good faith of the vendor and auctioneers. Which they don't seem to have.....
You are right, I share your point of view.
I am surprised that the vendor did not contact me. If this watch was bought in good faith, he should contact me.
I also wanted to know where he got it from. Because I had 5 other watches stolen during this robbery.
Did the auctioneer have physical possession of the watch and then hand it back to the person who offered it for sale?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think the auctioneer still holds it for the police investigation. I am not sure.
If you haven't got one, I would get a Metropolitan Police Crime Reference, I think you can do this via a call centre or online. The police might not investigate but it can help establish the goods as stolen goods (or believed stolen)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posting Permissions
