Reply With QuoteBuy what you want but expect to lose more money on the IWC.
I am sure many of you would have discussed this in the past. But I have been recently thinking about the the two brands in the £4-5k range especially if its a first high luxury watch purchase..
I really like both the brands... IWC makes some beautiful pieces my personal favourite is the Portugese automatic (power reserve)
In terms of comparison how would you guys compare a Rolex (submariner, GMT) vs an IWC Portugese.... My only contention with IWC is that they constantly refresh their models as opposed to Rolex.. and hence there is an argument that these watches might not retain value as well as a Rolex...
So in a nutshell.. in terms of quality, movement, prestige, value retention which is a better watch to go for.. I know it boils down to personal preference but my personal preference is very much dictated by the aforementioned factors. Also I have tried wearing IWC Portugese and Rolex submariner GMT and DJ2 and I am still undecided.
Please don't shoot me if this has been already discussed before. Will really appreciate your thoughts and recommendations,.
Buy what you want but expect to lose more money on the IWC.
To be honest, I can't think of a single advantage to choosing an IWC over a Rolex at £4-5K.
worried about value retention on a luxury good?
are you sure you can really afford it?
Unless you just happen to prefer an IWC over a Rolex.Originally Posted by Belligero
Yes, I think it depends critically on whether it's a "keeper". I'm more fond of my IWC Mk XII than I am even of my Rolex 16750, and the fact that there have been a small boatload of different IWC Marks, not many of which I particularly like since then, doesn't diminish its value to me.
The particular comparison you invite in your post is very apple vs orange in nature, I think.
I don't see how that helps in terms of quality, movement, prestige, value retention
Rolex for me, but if resale value isn't an issue for you just go with what you prefer.
For me, aesthetically they are very different watches, both in terms of size and style.
I don't think IWC have anything similar to a GMT & I don't think Rolex do Pilot/Flieger watches?
A sub & aquatimer are very different also.
The recent IWC models tend to be quite large also.
Rolex, without a doubt.
Surely it's just common sense to at least consider value retention regardless of your means?
It's a well known fact that Rolex watches keeps the price better than nearly any other brand. If you buy the IWC Portuguese Automatic at a sensible price (a few years old) it will also keep that price pretty well. The two watches in question are very, very different so it's hard to advice you. As far as the two brands are concerned my general attitude is:
If you want to be like everybody else: Buy Rolex. If you want to show some individuality: Buy IWC.
JK
"I'm just like anybody else: I want to be a nonconformist too."
—Lenny Bruce
But what if you don't give a damn what everybody else wears, and buy a Rolex (or IWC) because you like it? Doesn't that make you even more of a rugged individualist?
Common sense yes, but it shouldn't come into it. The whole point of a luxury good is that it is superfluous to your need and it is a want if you start considering resale value (to me anyway) takes away the point of having luxury items.
I was going to post something similar - IWC are not seen as often. I own a Portugese.
Perhaps a litle harsh but mostly true.
The only advantage I can see for some IWC particularly the Portuguese range is that they are very attractive watches.
Yes yes it does.
As long as you can 'say' I bought this Rolex because I ................. and not I bought this Rolex because everyone said I should / has one
I still have my IWC Portuguese chrono( my favourite watch) and sold my ceramic Rolex sub 2 years ago. Buy the one you really like and feel comfortable wearing !
The OP didn't say he/she was worried, just asking opinions on value retention and that's a sensible question in my book when contemplating a major purchase.
I think anybody with a little bit of nouse would consider this factor (if only briefly) even when purchasing a luxury item. It's unfortunate, but shit happens - economies crash, people lose jobs, relationships break up.
It would be lovely for us all to be able to sail through life without those worries, but your living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that you will always be immune to such minor inconveniences.
^
Not to mention that Rolex is a de facto alternate currency in certain niches.
In answer to the OP, I think Rolex would be the sensible option.
However, buying a watch isn't a sensible use of your money, so ultimately you must go with your feelings and buy what will give you the most satisfaction.
I take your point but part of the appeal to me in Rolex is that I can own and appreciate luxury goods without losing much, if any money in the process.
Perhaps not the point of luxury items as you say but it appeals to my cautious side because no matter how much money I have/don't have, I dislike parting with it unnecessarily.
Not seeing your logic there.
"I want a luxury item, but over time, familiarity may breed contempt, so as a consequence I will probably want a new luxury item.
When I sell the luxury item, I want to get as much for it as possible, lessening the amount I need to spend on purchasing the new luxury item I want."
In what way does that fall foul of luxury items being superfluous to needing and all about wanting?
Here's a hypothesis: all people buy luxury watches with a specific view to flipping them for something else a year or two down the line.
Valid or rubbish?
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I'm an IWC fan, but the answer to your question is Rolex all day long.
In the £4K range, here is my verdict, after owning 3 IWCs and 6 Rolex:
Movement: ROLEX > IWC
Reason: In that price range, all IWC movements are SELLITA based, not even ETA. They are not modified in any way by IWC contrary to popular belief. Historically, they were shipped as movements from ETA which IWC made modifications to. This then became ETA shipping pre-made to spec movement to IWC, to now being Sellita sending movements to IWC. Rolex, ofcourse all inhouse, robust, proven.
Quality: ROLEX > IWC
Reason: In this price range, the rolex cases are just better made, even WR, an IWC Portuguese Chronograph has only 6ATM for example.
Value retention: ROLEX > IWC
Reason: IWC prices have increased steadily in retail price. The IWC Portuguese Chronograph now retailing for £5900.00 equivalent to a Rolex GMT BLNR for example which trades at a premium now in grey vs the Portuguese in grey will be had for at least 30% off new.
In the end Rolex is superior in almost every way. However if you look at the inhouse stuff, like the new IWC Portuguese Automatic, with the ceramic parts, that becomes horologically speaking infinately more "interesting". However like with most richemont brands, aim for 30% off minimum for new pieces.
The criteria were listed as 'quality, movement, prestige, value retention', which sounds like it's inevitably pointing to Rolex. If 'interesting' were in there, we might have a game on our hands.
Wrong IMHO. Only watch nerds like us think like that. Most people buy a watch and keep it.
JK
Or buy a watch, think they're going to keep it, tire of it, try to sell it a couple of years later and can't believe how little they're being offered
Exactly my point!
Another hypothesis: all buyers who use the watch internet get tired of their luxury watch because they keep browsing said internet and hitting F5 on Basel announcements starting in February. Therefore value retention is a key performance measure for all buyers on the watch internet.
Valid, rubbish or somewhere in between?
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Really?
So every watch being sold on eBay is coming from a “WIS”/collector or retailer then?
Similarly, every pre-owned watch in a retailer’s is from a “WIS”/collector?
Having owned a similar number of these brands, this seems spot on to me. Hand on heart, Rolex just seem more accurate, more rugged, with better cases. My 'worst' Rolex for accuracy was better than my best IWC.
However, I do feel that IWC are often very stylish...as a Rolex fan, I see nothing in the range to compete with, say, a Portugeiser. IWC make good looking, elegant watches. But I wouldn't buy one again (I think!). However, I can see why the brand has a lot of fans. Buying one would never count as a 'mistake.'
Thanks a lot for the replies guys. Really helpful.
In my opinion value retention is an important factor.. As a) I don't have a lot of cash to throw b) its important to have the optionality of selling the watch if I want a change in future (without a high haircut in value).
I really like both brands. This IWC appeals to me a lot ( I feel the dial is very beautiful) : http://www.chrono24.co.uk/iwc/portug...-id4091152.htm
Its not that I hate Rolex Submariner GMT etc.. But the dial on this IWC just appeals to me in a very special way (cant explain lol)..Also the fact that IWC are more exclusive than Rolex draws me to IWC.
It does depend on the person but from my personal POV I never buy with a view to flipping.....
I sold my beloved Seamaster (I know there are far more desirable and expensive models out there) but that also had sentimental value anyway ... I only sold because I had to to pay for moving costs to our dream home in the country .....
I love where we live but still regret having to let it go....
I have sold couple of old TAGs but because never worn ... But I personally never buy with intent to flip....
I would rather wait a lot longer and keep the ones I desired at the time as I want to have a range of nice pieces...
To the OPs point that IWC does nothing for me at all and if retention is any slim issue at all its Rolex every time.....(of course model dependent as not every one is a sure thing)
So there was another factor after all - how it looks. IWC do some really great dials. And another factor worth considering is how unusual it is. There are beautiful and unusual Subs and GMTs, but they're not the ones you buy new in a shop, and rarely for this budget. Now you have the same problem as everyone else - the Rolex almost always turns out to be the safe choice, but is that what you actually want?Its not that I hate Rolex Submariner GMT etc.. But the dial on this IWC just appeals to me in a very special way (cant explain lol
BTW I hope you have tried the IWC in person, it's lovely in pictures but 42mm and a small bezel makes it a pretty hefty piece requiring a fair sized wrist, as with many of their pieces.
I doubt many do, but after experiencing that special sinking feeling of losing a four figure sum on a watch, and being the same amount short on the next one and only true grail, most learn to consider it in future. Few get married with the intention of divorcing, but for the same reason there's a thriving industry in prenuptial agreements.
+1, Rolex is a yawn fest for those that want to retain value. Personally I'd go IWC.
Different point - this presupposes that all people selling a watch bought that watch with the express intent of selling it. Some did, sure.
The point remains. Not everyone buys luxury watches with value retention uppermost. If they did, people would buy only Rolex and all other luxury brands would exit the market.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I'd buy the one I prefer most out of the two, I'd just try to source an IWC at the best possible price. Provided it wasn't financial suicide I'd just write off the additional depreciation on the IWC as a cost of ownership of the watch I wanted.
If I wanted an investment it wouldn't be a watch.
Blinkered at best.
Based on your criteria and question, the money in my opinion 'should go' with the Rolex.
You however clearly prefer the IWC.
Don't make things difficult for yourself by imposing criteri that don't fit.
Buy what you want otherwise you'll sell for sure anyway and be in the same boat.
Last edited by GIB984; 20th April 2016 at 22:26.
That IWC is beautiful, I understand the attraction. My son has had one for a number of years without any issues whatsoever.Thanks a lot for the replies guys. Really helpful.
In my opinion value retention is an important factor.. As a) I don't have a lot of cash to throw b) its important to have the optionality of selling the watch if I want a change in future (without a high haircut in value).
I really like both brands. This IWC appeals to me a lot ( I feel the dial is very beautiful) : http://www.chrono24.co.uk/iwc/portug...-id4091152.htm
Its not that I hate Rolex Submariner GMT etc.. But the dial on this IWC just appeals to me in a very special way (cant explain lol
I have never bought a watch based on what I can sell it for, I have bought 100's of watches based on whether I like them.
if you have £5 and want to spend £5k then buy the one that makes you happy, buy the one you like the look of, buy the one that works well on your wrist.
If you want to buy something to sell it, buy drums of oil.
Nope just an opinion from someone who finds Rolex's dull. Just like the owners.
They mix well with Porsche owners at dinner parties...spinning out numbers like a kids arithmetic class.
Again, blinkered at best, I await your next generalisation with relish
Cool, I've got loads.Again, blinkered at best, I await your next generalisation with relish
It sounds like you go to the wrong dinner parties.
With your mentality I expected no less.
I dont think as a waiter you pick and choose
Surprised by the pro-rolex comments here...But I agree with the case presented..Rolex definitely wins within the parameters defined..
I don't think there is any harm in desiring a watch that you really like and a watch that holds its value
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