Vintage rolex - should I expect papers?

[PWatch]

I'm after a vintage Pepsi GMT from my birth year (early 80's), although a lot of watches from the time only seem to have the box and no papers. Is it realistic to expect papers on such an old watch? Or should I get over it and buy one for the watxh itself rather than the total package?

[langdalematt]

If you want a full set it will cost you to get it. My advice would be to find a nice unmolested watch with an original dial, handset, bezel, bracelet and a nice fat case that has not been overly polished. It will still cost you, but not as much as one with papers. If you are not experienced in vintage watches, I would buy from someone like Mike Wood, who is very much a trusted source in the vintage arena. Vintage watches are a minefield not be ventured into without expert knowledge, you can easily get badly burnt.

[Deckard81]

When it comes to birth year watches the usual irrational thought process "I need a vintage watch" becomes even more irrational "I need a vintage Rolex from my birth year and it has to be as perfect and complete as possible".
You are the only one that can answer your question.
Is it realistic? Yes. You can find them for sure.
I bought a 1981 sub with B+P because I really wanted a birth year watch, paid a premium for it, and wore it once in 5 months.
For me was the right choice because I had this itch to scratch and now I know that it was somewhat silly.
Hopefully your experience will be different.
Good luck.

[Mick P]

I'm after a vintage Pepsi GMT from my birth year (early 80's), although a lot of watches from the time only seem to have the box and no papers. Is it realistic to expect papers on such an old watch? Or should I get over it and buy one for the watxh itself rather than the total package?

Original paper work is in all fairness totally worthless. It proves absolutely nothing and in the UK at least, papers are much easier to forge than what is is to pass off a fake watch. If someone depends on an original document for authenticity, then it is a self admission that they lack the ability to verify a genuine watch which in all fairness applies to nearly everyone.

I recently bought a 1981 Freccione Explorer 2 without paperwork because back in the eighties, receipts were often disposed of when the 12 month guarantee ran out. Original paperwork has become important mainly with internet WISs.

I had the watch taken into a Rolex AD the same day for a service and the receipt of the work carried out by Rolex is the most meaningful document as it is current.

Regards

Mick

[walkerwek1958]

The fact that the majority of old watches don't have the original box and papers answers the question.

My strong advice is to buy the watch not the other bits; focus on the condition of the watch and don't be swayed by the fact that the box and papers are present. Treat it as a 'nice to have' rather than an essential.

As for the birth year thing, it's a silly idea. If you like vintage watches buy a vintage watch but don't let your judgement be swayed by the fact that the one in question is supposedly from your birth year. Getting excited about your birthday/ birth year is strictly for children in my opinion. Insisting on getting a watch from one specific year narrows choice to such an extent that it seriously limits the likelihood of finding a nice example........ It really doesn't make sense.

I'll echo the previous advice, buy from Mike Wood if possible. Vintage watches in general can be a minefield but vintage Rolex sports is an expensive minefield and there's a lot of poor stuff out there.

Paul

[Bluetinfloor]

Paperwork is nice to have, but will add a premium to the cost, circa 20%. It also adds the complication of dated papers and watch serial number combinations quite possibly not aligning i.e. watch serial number firmly in say 1985 and papers dated 1986/87 - this is not unusual as the watches could sit in AD's stock and easily span adjacent or even more years. So, have you got a 1985 or 1986 watch ? Suggest you look for a solid original loose watch as a good starting point.

[Guitarfan]

As for the birth year thing, it's a silly idea. If you like vintage watches buy a vintage watch but don't let your judgement be swayed by the fact that the one in question is supposedly from your birth year. Getting excited about your birthday/ birth year is strictly for children in my opinion. Insisting on getting a watch from one specific year narrows choice to such an extent that it seriously limits the likelihood of finding a nice example........ It really doesn't make sense.

Not needed IMHO, no need to belittle the OP's choice.

PWatch - papers might be nice, but I would find the best watch you can in the acceptable serial number range for your birth year. Good luck with the hunt!

[bitfield]

Not needed IMHO, no need to belittle the OP's choice.

Perhaps he phrased it rather bluntly, but this isn't WUS where everybody's eerily polite to each other, as though they were all armed (that may in fact be the case).

Everything that's been said is basically right, though: getting hung up on a watch from a specific year is a bad idea. It may not even really make sense to say that a watch is 'from' a specific year, since the movement, case, and bracelet may all have been made at different times, assembled later, shipped and sold at yet another time.

Papers aren't totally worthless, but they add more of a premium than they really should. It's hard enough to buy a decent vintage watch, so I would focus solely on finding a good example from the right half-decade, with or without box or papers or birth certificate.

[snowman]

Perhaps he phrased it rather bluntly, but this isn't WUS where everybody's eerily polite to each other, as though they were all armed (that may in fact be the case).

Everything that's been said is basically right, though: getting hung up on a watch from a specific year is a bad idea. It may not even really make sense to say that a watch is 'from' a specific year, since the movement, case, and bracelet may all have been made at different times, assembled later, shipped and sold at yet another time.

Papers aren't totally worthless, but they add more of a premium than they really should. It's hard enough to buy a decent vintage watch, so I would focus solely on finding a good example from the right half-decade, with or without box or papers or birth certificate.

Papers are valuable if you collect paperwork - Some do, some don't.

They don't prove anything about the watch, which seems to be a misapprehension many believe.

Personally I don't put any value on the paperwork, so it's worthless stuff that clutters up my loft to me, but each to their own.

As Bitfield and others say, choose the best example of the watch you can find in budget.

M.

[relaxer7]

...yep - forget the paperwork just make sure the ticker is legit!

[DB9yeti]

Weird thing the birth year idea; my last coupkr of vintage Rolex were birth year (1974) and to be honest it's a nice thing. A 1655 (Explorere II Freccione) caught my eye but I wanted a straight hand so it's a 1972. It's made not one iota of difference as it happens, so there you go!

All thing being equal, if I'm offered two vintage watches, ones birth year and one isn't, I'd pick the birth year one. If that makes me a 'child' in Paul's eyes, I'm really not concerned :)

As others have said; don't get hung up on it...

[soesgsxr]

as a non connaiseur I feel more comfortable if there is some paperwork! Can't recognize a fake from a genuine but comparing numbers is something easy and gives u some idea no?

[stelmo01]

Pre-1990's Rolex seem to sky rocket in price once the original papers are present and get exponentially more expensive for every decade you roll back. As mentioned in many of the previous posts - they are nice to have but I wouldn't pay a premium for them.

[alfat33]

as a non connaiseur I feel more comfortable if there is some paperwork! Can't recognize a fake from a genuine but comparing numbers is something easy and gives u some idea no?

I think the point others are making is that the papers could be faked more easily than the watch, or bought separately, so your sense of comfort may be misplaced.

[walkerwek1958]

Oh dear, I`ve upset him again

I`ve no wish to piss on anyone's fireworks, but raising the alternative view to the birthyear fad may cause the OP to challenge his own thinking. If he does that and still decides he's got to do it that's fine, he's made his decision. There is a real risk of allowing oneself to be drawn towards a less than ideal purchase because it ticks the birth-year box; having ended up with a mediocre watch the buyer may well regret his choice and he may also realise the birthyear thing is no big deal. Furthermore, there's a risk of narrowing his choice further by striving for the 'full set' and overlooking the fact that the watch is mediocre. Watch buying is an emotive thing, but I`ve learned over the years to step back and let my head make decisions not my heart.

I don`t seek to belittle anyone's choice, I'm giving my opinion (and hopefully some useful advice too) on what is an unregulated forum. I`m a big fan of vintage watches (but not Rolex sports) and coincidentally own a few from the era of my birth....whether any coincide exactly is neither here nor there to me. Dating watches to an exact year isn`t an exact science either, so it's not wise to place too much importance on it.

Until I joined this forum I`d never realised that people try to buy watches from their birth year; it still seems strange to me. I`ve owned a couple and worked on several from 1958 but it doesn`t give me any sort of buzz. Once they're apart they're just another pile of bits and the fact that one of the bridges has a serial number which may date it to my birth year means nothing.

Buying old watches is challenging enough; why make it harder by limiting your choice? As for birthdays etc, I loved 'em as a kid but they've never meant much to me as an adult. Maybe I`m wrong, maybe I should still get a a cake with candles on every year!

Paul

[P9CLY]

If you find the watch you want and it's a full set.......Good.

And if you don't.......Does it really,I mean really really matter?.

Its all about the watch.......Isn't it?.

[DB9yeti]

I think the point others are making is that the papers could be faked more easily than the watch, or bought separately, so your sense of comfort may be misplaced.

What he says ^^

Plenty of period blank Rolex paperwork floating about with hand-written serials on them.

[ktmog6uk]

A recent service by a reputable watchmaker would carry more weight for me.

[Der Amf]

Imagine two identical Rolexes available for sale from a private seller, both from the early to mid 70s. One has box and papers but has no known service history. The other has no box or papers, except for a receipt saying it's just been serviced by William Rice. What's the difference in price going to be?

[walkerwek1958]

Imagine two identical Rolexes available for sale from a private seller, both from the early to mid 70s. One has box and papers but has no known service history. The other has no box or papers, except for a receipt saying it's just been serviced by William Rice. What's the difference in price going to be?

No right or wrong answer to this, it's subjective and it depends on the buyer's priority. I`d inspect both very carefully and find sufficient differences to mark one as superior to the other, but that's somewhat subjective too. No two vintage watches are ever identical and I think folks overlook that, they tend to value them as commodity items.

Paul

[Andyg]

Assuming you are looking for a Early 80's watch and all watches are in identical condition, the pecking order is as follows:-

Punched Paper with Box and Bits.
Punched Paper
Box and Bits
Recent Service paper (from Rolex)
Recent Service paper from an know independent

Personally I would first try to find the best original watch I could find, and then worry about the rest, however if I do find two very similar watches (and I normally do) - one without "extras" and one without, then I tend to buy the former. After all only a crazy person would buy a car without MOT, 2 sets of keys, Service History, etc. would they.

Makes them easier to sell as well.