Speedmaster MkII Omega Service – Case Refinish Acceptable? RESULT??

[sean]

This lunchtime I picked up my MkII, freshly serviced by Omega. I didn't check it over until I got back from work this evening, and I'm annoyed at myself for not giving it a proper one-over when I collected it because I don't think the case refinish is anywhere near good enough, certainly not what I was expecting from Omega. I'm going back tomorrow to see what they say, but in the meantime I'd like to hear others' views please.

This is the best 'before' photo I have. The case had some marks, but the sunburst finish was as one would expect, and there were nice sharp boundaries between the sunburst and the polished surfaces.



Here's what it looks like now.



I've tried my best to show how it actually looks, and if anything these photos overemphasise the sunburst pattern. It looks like the watch was given a satin finish and then an extremely light, wide-spaced sunburst effect attempted. When you look at it you have to look really hard to see what little sunburst effect there is, and it only shows at all when I move the watch to catch the light just right. This one probably best captures what it looks like to the naked eye. Notice how soft the boundaries are now.



So, should I expect better than this from Omega?

[Jon Kenney]

Wow, that is very surprising after coming back from Omega. To answer your original question, no I absolutely do not think it is acceptable.

The next things is what to do about it. I'd say the first thing is to head back to where you handed it in armed with clear photo of the 'before' finish to show the stark difference, and perhaps a letter logging a formal complaint.

Do you know exactly where it was refinished? It certainly doesn't look like Bienne workmanship.

Did you specify what work you wanted doing on the watch?

For some sort of comparison here's my old flightmaster after a refinish from Bienne.

Good luck.

[mjoranga]

I too would want to know where it went? Totally poor refinishing and I hope it's not one of Omega accredited or more so not the one in Southampton... You've lost most of the edges and makes it look so dull. I hope it can be restored to factory finish without loosing too much metal... You should definitely let them know about Your concern and show the old Photos for comparison...

[Foxy100]

I would insist on it going to STS, via whoever you gave it to for service. I thought all Omega vintage servicing went there, and since they have a lapping machine it would look perfect had they done it.

I wonder how much metal is lost when a watch is polished like this, presumably by hand, and especially if it needs to be lapped to bring it back up to standard.

For me this is all wrong, they've taken a standard watch and made it non standard, presumably without your permission.

[I a n]

That is not the usual standard .. here's mine I bought immediately after Bienne service and refinish ...

[I a n]

Show the pictures from this thread - The more I look at it the more unacceptable your finish appears!
Hopefully they will do the right thing.

[gorrie]

I'd be livid if I'd received that back. Very poor.

[Scepticalist]

I'd be demanding a new case - that's horrific.

[greasemonkey]

i have to agree with previous posters,that is not acceptable from omega.

[walkerwek1958]

That's a disappointing result, I don't believe this has been done at Bienne.

Even refinishing without a lapping machine , it is possible to get a much better result than this.

I suggest the OP talks to whoever stone this and has a stern word. My guess is that it's been done at Southampton, but it should still be better than this.

Paul

[TimeOut]

I know the Swatch group are trying to bring everything in line with the brand but this is a step too far.

Not much left of that case now :(

[tanatron]

Wow, totally unacceptable! It has become a bar soap!

[GrandS]

Yuck, that is just disgraceful. I hope it can be restored.

[A380]

Only had one Omega refinished by Omega, excellent service but that sir is not acceptable.

Hope you resolve it.

[jpjsavage]

Who did that job? As others have said, it is well below what you should expect. My vintage Omega only goes to one place - STS.

[moonman100]

Doesn't look good to me, was that sent to Omega Southampton direct or via a retailer? Try contacting James Avery, Head of Customer Service for Swatch Group UK, James.Avery@uk.swatchgroup.com. I spoke to him during visit to their premises as local to me and he was more than willing to take time out and speak with me whilst I waited in reception. Hope you resolve this

[Jdh1]

It looks like I've done it with a scouring pad! Awful.

[PreacherCain]

God, that's a rotten job! I've only had one watch re-finished by Omega and that was my dad's old Cosmic which was done by STS. Despite being much battered and abused it came back looking lovely and sharp.

Whoever did that to your MkII deserves to have their pan scourer taken away. :-(

Hope you get it fixed.

[demer03]

Strange, but my buddy's gold MKII just came back from a full service and received the same shoddy treatment. US service center.

Did they lose the "guy" who did these???

[Optimum]

My Jedi came back from STS a few years back looking not dissimilar. I put it down to it having been over-polished previously and me not insisting on it going to Bienne.

[sean]

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm working in Canada at the moment, and consequently it was serviced by the Swatch Group Regional HQ here in Toronto. I'd assumed all servicing work would be carried out to the same standard by Omega wherever in world it was taken to, so I had no concerns dropping it off here. I assumed wrong!

Anyway, I'm going back to Swatch this lunchtime with the expectation of them promising to sort it. I'll tell them to send it to Bienne if they don't have the capability in house.

And thanks for the post-service photos posted, that's the finish I was expecting to get back, and they'll be useful when I go back to Swatch later.

[mjoranga]

Oh that's really poor service from them... The usual choice in Canada is Al Archer. Omega accredited with very good feedback from WUS. Hope they will bring it back to factory finish Mate...

[The Hack]

To achieve the right edges on your watch would probably need too much metal being shaved off.

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm working in Canada at the moment, and consequently it was serviced by the Swatch Group Regional HQ here in Toronto. I'd assumed all servicing work would be carried out to the same standard by Omega wherever in world it was taken to, so I had no concerns dropping it off here. I assumed wrong!

Anyway, I'm going back to Swatch this lunchtime with the expectation of them promising to sort it. I'll tell them to send it to Bienne if they don't have the capability in house.

And thanks for the post-service photos posted, that's the finish I was expecting to get back, and they'll be useful when I go back to Swatch later.

[donkertraz]

I looked at the first image and didn't think it looked bad. Then scrolled to the second and third!!! It looks like it's made of chocolate.

Best of luck getting things sorted

[walkerwek1958]

It needs re-doing, and the best results on this type of case are always produced by a lapping machine in skilled hands. Getting the grain heavy enough is difficult (I couldn`t do it) and restoring the sharpness to the edges after it's been softened isn`t easy by hand.

Despite the doom-monger's comments, you don`t need to fret about the amount of metal to be removed, it's a few microns and you'll never miss it! These cases are like bricks, there's plenty of steel to go at!

Folks get hung up on this point, they repeat what they've read and the myth about taking too much metal away gathers momentum. If it's done correctly the amount of metal removed is minimal, even to take fairly deep scratches out. Hard to visualise this unless you've got experience doing this work. Problems arise when poor quality work is done by using an abrasive wheel to 'hack' away at damage.

With this type of case there is a risk of taking too much metal off the top, to an extent that the glass won`t stay in, but you'd have to be a complete idiot to do this. This trick is to work at a slightly steeper angle if there's deep damage, thus preserving metal around the glass area. That's the beauty of working by hand, it's hard work to take a lot of metal away so there's no risk of doing it by accident....unless you're complete bozo.

Now that Omega are trying to bark with the big dogs it's reasonable to expect their service standards to be consistent worldwide..........sadly that's not the case and it's unlikely to be in the near future.

Paul

[Jim W]

That is awful. I think I would prefer them to leave the case alone other than a very light buff.

[JeremyO]

Totally unacceptable IMO.

Were it mine, I would insist OSC Canada send this to Bienne for a proper refinish.

[walkerwek1958]

It needs re-doing, and the best results on this type of case are always produced by a lapping machine in skilled hands. Getting the grain heavy enough is difficult (I couldn`t do it) and restoring the sharpness to the edges after it's been softened isn`t easy by hand.

Despite the doom-monger's comments, you don`t need to fret about the amount of metal to be removed, it's a few microns and you'll never miss it! These cases are like bricks, there's plenty of steel to go at!

Folks get hung up on this point, they repeat what they've read and the myth about taking too much metal away gathers momentum. If it's done correctly the amount of metal removed is minimal, even to take fairly deep scratches out. Hard to visualise this unless you've got experience doing this work. Problems arise when poor quality work is done by using an abrasive wheel to 'hack' away at damage.

With this type of case there is a risk of taking too much metal off the top, to an extent that the glass won`t stay in, but you'd have to be a complete idiot to do this. This trick is to work at a slightly steeper angle if there's deep damage, thus preserving metal around the glass area. That's the beauty of working by hand, it's hard work to take a lot of metal away so there's no risk of doing it by accident....unless you're complete bozo.

Now that Omega are trying to bark with the big dogs it's reasonable to expect their service standards to be consistent worldwide..........sadly that's not the case and it's unlikely to be in the near future.

Paul

[sean]

Thanks again for all the replies.

An update on returning from the Swatch Group office.

I handed the watch over to one of the customer service agents and it was taken off to be looked at, along with my phone showing the photos above of the Mk II serviced in Bienne. After about 10 minutes waiting, a technician in a white coat came out and spoke with the other customer service agent behind the counter. In a nutshell he said that they have a problem, they don't have the equipment to finish the watch as it should be done, and the customer service agent should in future mention this to customers when they bring in their watches.

The agent I gave my watch to then popped back out because my phone had timed out and locked itself, and she said they wanted to show the picture of the sunburst effect to the polisher. Make of that what you will.

Then the "customer care manager" came out to speak to me. His attitude was basically that's the best we can do. He really didn't want to know. I was astounded. His series of arguments amounted to a) that's the best we can do, b) the watch was so badly marked that the sunburst finish wasn't possible to achieve, c) you have unrealistic expectations (he suggested that the Bienne-refinished watch above was actually new from the factory). He talked about how the watch had been 'lightly polished,' which I disagreed with. He didn't suggest sending the watch to somewhere that did have the correct equipment and capabilities. I had to push for that, and he eventually agreed to send it to Switzerland, but said he wasn't sure they'd be able to do anything with it. After about 10 minutes of back-and-forth he did apologise, but in such a transparently offhanded way that it was more insulting than anything else.

I have my fingers crossed Bienne will sort it out, and Paul's comments above give me confidence this is how it'll turn out, but this episode has soured my opinion of Omega for sure.

[snowman]

Awful job and dreadful service...

I hope you get it resolved, but I have to wonder how close to Switzerland your watch will ever get, given the service manager's attitude.

I'd get onto Omega hq to make sure they're aware of your watch and it gets there...

M

[sean]

Awful job and dreadful service...

I hope you get it resolved, but I have to wonder how close to Switzerland your watch will ever get, given the service manager's attitude.

I'd get onto Omega hq to make sure they're aware of your watch and it gets there...

M

Thanks, I've already sent an email to the service manager's boss, the Country (Canada) & Omega Brand Manager (same chap has both titles). I'm awaiting his response. Any suggestions whom in Omega HQ to contact?

[Der Amf]

Gazing at that photo I was suddenly reminded of

[TimeOut]

Poor show indeed. The crown looks pretty chewed up as well.

[I a n]

They sound quite incompetent. To claim a refinished watch was actually new shows lack of basic knowledge. I'd be confident they would want to get this right this time so the watch will get the finish it deserves.

And I'm glad the photos helped ... But wanted to clarify that credit for the photos goes to swissz who posted them in his sales thread.

[dickstar1977]

Good god that's appalling, call Omega in Southampton and ask for the Head of Customer Service (James Avery) he's a top chap and I have dealt with him before, I cannot believe Omega would return something to you like that! Southampton is an extremely well equipped facility, which also has all of the latest lapping equipment so I am flummoxed as to how that has come back to you in that condition, it looks like it has been refinished in a shed!

[JasonM]

Good god that's appalling, call Omega in Southampton and ask for the Head of Customer Service (James Avery) he's a top chap and I have dealt with him before, I cannot believe Omega would return something to you like that! Southampton is an extremely well equipped facility, which also has all of the latest lapping equipment so I am flummoxed as to how that has come back to you in that condition, it looks like it has been refinished in a shed!

It was done in Canada Tom.

[PickleB]

Thanks, I've already sent an email to the service manager's boss, the Country (Canada) & Omega Brand Manager (same chap has both titles). I'm awaiting his response. Any suggestions whom in Omega HQ to contact?

Address:

Customer Service
Rue Jakob-Stämpfli 96
2500 Biel/Bienne
Switzerland

+41 32 343 92 11

But you could take it to the top:

Stephen Urquhart (link) President of Omega
email

That's the best I can do from the net...but someone else may be along shortly with better info.

[sean]

That's the best I can do from the net...but someone else may be along shortly with better info.

Thanks for that. If the response from the Omega brand manager is underwhelming I'd like to make sure the top people hear about it. Aside from the case finishing, there's no excuse for such poor customer service nowadays.

[Omegary]

That's definitely not acceptable. However it's pretty indicative of a hand refinished case, as apposed to a case that's been on a lapping machine.

There's a few before and after photo's of MKII Speedies on the thread below but if you'd like any more to strengthen your case (sorry about that!) just drop me a line.

http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...pics-on-page-3

Cheers,
Gary

[Vincent]

This is not acceptable, arguably they have ruined the watch, definitely affected the value. I would pursue a new case, further polishing is detrimental to the piece surely.

[Foxy100]

What I'm confused about is why did they polish it in the first place? Did you ask for it to be polished, and if not did they tell you it would be and you agreed for it to be done? Was the case original when you gave it to them or had it been lapped before? Either way it's not acceptable to take a watch that started off looking standard and polishing it so it wasn't.

On the plus side it will come back from Bienne looking like new.

[tim2012]

It is a poor job but trying to restore it will be challenging. You will find you lose the definition of the edges and a lot of metal has to be removed to reestablish the shape and finish. Hope it goes well.

[sean]

What I'm confused about is why did they polish it in the first place? Did you ask for it to be polished, and if not did they tell you it would be and you agreed for it to be done? Was the case original when you gave it to them or had it been lapped before? Either way it's not acceptable to take a watch that started off looking standard and polishing it so it wasn't.

On the plus side it will come back from Bienne looking like new.

I simply asked for a complete service, which implicitly includes a case refinish to factory specifications (obviously within reason depending on the condition of the case when the watch is submitted).

I didn't ask for it to be polished, and they didn't tell me it would be.

As far as I'm aware the case hadn't ever been touched before.

Regarding that second point, I did say to the customer care manager that a straightforward phone call asking me what to do because they didn't have the capability to complete the refinish in house was all that was needed to avoid this situation.

[Vincent]

I think "tim2012" point is very valid. What will remedial works leave you with? sorry to labour the point but I would push for a new case. Good luck with it too as it must be a very disappointing situation to be left in.

[sirksael]

This is exactly why I insisted my mk II be sent to Switzerland when I handed it over for service here in Belgium. The shop said they would probably not want to do that, but I insisted and told him to give the watch back if they didn't want to.
Haven't heard back in a few weeks, so I assume they gave in.
I hope yours gets sorted!

[JackW]

Really sorry to hear that. The finish is absolutely unacceptable, as is the service you received. Hope you get this sorted. My Mk IV didn't go to Switzerland, but this is what an Omega accredited service center should be able to do:

[monogroover]

Really surprised if not shocked to see that and can only echo others' comments.. unacceptable, certainly.

[Swissz]

Oh my God, that is horrible, I can not believe a Omega Service center would do this.

I am afraid the case is beyond repair at the moment, from what I can see the polished edges on the side have been eaten up by the latest polishing and have taken too much metal. Even if Bienne tries to restore the sunburst finish it will have to go beyond the position of the sunburst where should be. I think Bienne will simply say refinishing is impossible now, because the effect won't be same as the shape of the top case has been changed.

You should really push for a service case which will looks absolutely baddas but it will diminish the prospect of collector's watch. While cases from this era have no SN on them, the new service case will have an extra 0 or something to show it is a service replacement. And if they agree to do the swap FOC most likely you will not get the old case back.

[mantaray]

Really upsetting - what a shame.

For info, when I bought my c. 1970 Mk. II a few years back (gone now sadly in the cull) I insisted it went to Bienne (via the Omega Boutique which was then in New Bond Street) as, certainly at that time, I understood they still had the original lapping machine. Long wait, but when the watch was retuned to me the case looked like the day it left the factory with a perfect, starbust finish which they had clearly taken care, time and pride over. Assuming they still have the machine, this is the place to get it to in my experience by whatever means. If it helps. PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you some photographs which I am very happy for you to show them as to the quality for work they achieved refinishing my Mk II case.

It is certainly Bienne where I would send my Flightmaster (which I fortunately still have) at some point in the future if it needs a case refinish. For info, the Flightmaster was served at SDS, but the starburst finish was in pretty good shape, so it went with the instruction not to touch the case which fortunately they adhered to.

[walkerwek1958]

I am afraid the case is beyond repair at the moment, from what I can see the polished edges on the side have been eaten up by the latest polishing and have taken too much metal. Even if Bienne tries to restore the sunburst finish it will have to go beyond the position of the sunburst where should be. I think Bienne will simply say refinishing is impossible now, because the effect won't be same as the shape of the top case has been changed.

.

No!
You cannot reach this conclusion based on these pictures.

I suggest the OP takes notice of the sensible comments on this thread, especially the ones from those with EXPERIENCE of doing this type of work.............which probably narrows things down a bit!

All too often people weigh in with opinions which are not based on first-hand experience but can sound convincing. Some folks just enjoy being negative, some folks repeating what they've read, some folks genuinely don't realise they're wrong. Such ill-informed comments simply make the OP feel more pissed off than he already is.

If this can't be salvaged I'll be amazed, but it does need to go on a lapping machine to get maximum improvement for minimal metal removal. Hell, I've salvaged stuff that's been far worse than this and that's without any special machinery!

Talk the Omega folk at Southhampton. Hopefully they will be able to liaise with the Toronto folk and sort something out. I definitely wouldn't let the Toronto buddies touch it again, that's a no-no In my view. This HAS to go to someone with the correct kit......and expertise.

Paul

Edit: just had another careful look at the pics and l stand by my comments.