Just after some legal advice really, any practicing Solicitors out there?
An old Bentley Eight was advertised on Ebay as a classified advert. I phoned the seller, we went through the condition etc, we agreed a price and I verbally comitted to the purchase.
He sounded like a great bloke and we spoke about everything else other than the Bentley, needless to say I thought we got on and he felt the same.
He said he trusted me at my word, I offered him a deposit, he declined as he was fearful of giving his account details out. I offered him a bankers draft in that evenings post, he declined again and said he would rather the cash.
He told me not to worry, he promised the car was mine providing I could get it collected before Monday. If anyone phoned he said he would tell them it was sold. I paid a non refundale fee of £350 to the transport company for the collection (400 miles round trip), let him know the times so he was avaliable his end to deal with the paperwork and collecting the cash from the driver.
This was on Thursday and Saturday evening I got a text to say the car was sold! Needless to say I was fuming, I got straight on the phone and we talked for 40 minutes, he wouldnt admit he was in the wrong for the selling the car.
To cut a long story short, Im £350 down, I only have his word, the conversation was not recorded. Can I try to persue the money or are there any solicitors on here that could write me a "before action letter" in the hope he pays something?
Im happy to pay for anybodys time or cost incurred or a donation to the fundraiser?
Kind Regards
Richard
Whilst it is a bit of a bum thing to happen I suspect that it is not worth the hassle of even considering pursuing.
You 'only' lost £350, not £3500, and whilst that is painful, it is not really life changing. Just slate it up as one of life's lessons of people being gits and start looking for an alternative Bentley.
Bentley : historically the Cad's vehicle of choice.
It seems some things never change ....
Don't forget, it's not what happened that's important, but what you can prove happened.
This is the crux of the matter, your word against his.Originally Posted by catch21
Last edited by number2; 19th January 2016 at 21:41.
Without a shred of proof, there is little you can do. Conversation and agreement? What conversation and agreement? However, if the seller has acted like this prior to the sale, just imagine what nasty little surprises the car might have had, over and above the potential bank balance meltdown threat of a 'nice' Bentley.
I know it will be painful, but it is probably best to look at the £350 you have lost as a blessing in disguise.
If the seller was happy to lie to you, then what else has he lied about too? You could be far worse off financially if the car was a lemon and he had just lied about that too.
Well that is my attempt at finding a positive side anyway.....
Small claims court,I recon you'll win,a mate of mine is a plumber and he agreed to replace someone's central heating,all priced and agreed but all verbally,the morning he turned up to do the job he was told they had changed there mind,so he took him to small claims to recover his costs and won,so I recon you'd have a chance,at the end of the day you booked the transport to pick it up,no one in there right mind his going to send a transporter to an address to pick up a vehicle without there being some agreement,it's your word against his but why would you organise this if there were no agreement,
Some good advice, I know I should just let it go but it grives me!
Ive just had a look, small claims court with Money Claim Online is only £35 so I think its worth a shot, if nothing else it will make me feel better!
Thanks for the help.
I've used the Moneyclaim Online service a couple of times before with nonpaying business debtors. It is very inexpensive to initiate and when I've used it the other party has paid up after receiving the court papers and before it ever got to court, which is the desired result.
Many people will either pay up because they don't like the idea of "being taken to court", or, if they are business people and the amount claimed is small, because the real cost to them in terms of lost time, representation etc can outweigh the actual claim by a considerable margin, so it is cheaper just to cough up.
The risk is that the other chap is not only hard-headed but has the means to fight back - then you might come to regret beginning the action!
To be honest, he sounds like a grade A tosser, and I've found that life is to short to engage with people like that any more than necessary.
Would it be worth asking the transport company if it would give you a credit for the use of their services again when you find another suitable car to buy?
I would echo what several have already said - your money is done and it's not worth throwing good money after bad.
However, you do have his address. Leave it a couple of months though...revenge is a dish best served cold and all that ;-)
If you have his address, chances are he has a letterbox.
How did you pay the £350?
If it was by card you'll get your money back
The seller has not provided you with the goods
Get onto the bank or cc firm
Don't think that's right. He paid the £350 as a non-refundable deposit to the transport company. The fact that they won't be picking the car up isn't their fault.
Yep, that's that for the dosh. Best just move on.
mike
They'll tell you to jog on.
The £350 was paid to the haulage company as a deposit and they will be more than happy to make the trip and provide the service as agreed.
The problem is an unrelated third party (to the CC transaction) has failed to provide the goods the haulage company was meant to collect, the CC company has not facilitated a transaction with the car seller so will have no liability.
I would go down the small claims route. It doesn't cost a lot, you don't need expensive legal representation and the threat of a CCJ could well get the other guy deciding it's not worth the hassle. As mentioned above, you would hardly pay a non refundable deposit to a transport company if a sale hadn't been agreed. You also have the record of your phone conversation (date and length of time) both before and after he screwed you over.
Judges are not stupid, they deal with these things day in-day out. I think you would win.
How very dare you!... I'll think you'll find that's a jag sir....
Good luck to the OP in all seriousness...
I'm ashamed to say but this would be my recourse, but then I'm not too nice when I think I've been done over.
This seems to be the most sensible reply you've had, OP... it's got to be worth a go ?
.12345
Last edited by jambobbyb; 21st May 2019 at 19:17.
Just chalk it off, soak it up, and learn from it.
Frankly, I think you've been v. unwise. I`d never buy a car without seeing it, even if I had to travel the length of the country. If you'd done that, and given him a deposit, you'd have some come-back. Indeed, if you'd transferred the money by bt on the spot the car would've been yours.
The guys acted badly, no question about that, but you've no chance of getting any money back......lick your wounds and accept it.
It's possible the car was the proverbial POS, buying a car unseen is madness. I`ve travelled to see stacks of classic/old cars in the past and despite most benig rubbish they all looked OK in the pictures!
Paul
All sounds fishy to me the £350.00 paid to this collection company how was it paid ? and I presume you had a receipt and paperwork stating terms and conditions? are they the same as the seller or separate and unrelated business?
If you paid by CC then go the fraud route if there was no paperwork or contract then they have not done any service for you.
Small claims court for me.
It may have only been a verbal agreement, but these are enforceable contracts. It will ultimately come down to who the court believes. The fact you paid a non refundable deposit for transport does also support your claim, as you can reasonably argue you wouldn't have paid that money if you weren't sure the cat was yours.
Start with a letter to the seller asking for the £350, giving 7 days notice to pay and threatening court action if they do not pay, the follow through to the small claims court.
A brilliant misunderstanding of the thread. Read the first post again
A brilliant misunderstanding of the thread. Read the first post again
He told me not to worry, he promised the car was mine providing I could get it collected before Monday. If anyone phoned he said he would tell them it was sold. I paid a non refundale fee of £350 to the transport company for the collection (400 miles round trip), let him know the times so he was avaliable his end to deal with the paperwork and collecting the cash from the driver.
Hmmm, so is the suggestion that the car and transport company was a front to do the OP out of £350? I got the impression that the transport company was booked separately by the OP so would have no connection to the seller. But if the transport company was arranged by the seller then that's obviously a different story.
No mention of a letterbox yet?
Post 12.
Cheers..
Jase
Your only real chance is to write him a very polite letter pointing out that he knows that he agreed to sell it to you and if he is a man of integrity then he'll compensate you for you loss due to him breaking your gentlemen's agreement.
As other's have pointed out, you may have just got off lightly.
Last edited by Jeremy67; 20th January 2016 at 14:29.
Of course!
Unless, of course, you subscribe to the popular belief that a contract does not exist until money has changed hands...
*gets his coat*
You don't need a letter before claim (a letter before action is sooo 2007),
All you need to do is go through the moneyclaim form and decide if you cba to complete it and take the risks involved.
Then as you appear to have, in good faith, spent money with a clear intent and now have lost that, you would have, prima facie, a claim.
The other party can then decide how they respond to it, be that just paying, silence and letting someone decide, or fighting it.
1 of these 3 means their problem instantly goes away. The other two do not. That gives you pretty good odds to my mind.
Look at it as money saved and a lesson learnt...You'd be more than £350 out of pocket if you'd have bought a Bentley Eight..
I once owned a Bentley Mulsanne so have plenty of experience. :D
It may be a popular belief, but it has no basis in law. There is no dependency for money to exchange hands prior to a contract being formed.
Which is very interesting for anyone who agrees to buy something from. A website which was misprinted, then gets the offer to sell withdrawn. This is usually covered by the sellers t&c's, but if not adequately covered you have a case for breach of contract if they refuse to sell at the offered price, (the price you agreed/accepted to pay when ordering).
There is nothing law that says you need a letter, however it is often good practise, as the threat of legal action makes some people pay up, without the hassle of going to court or filling in forms.
not really. invitation to treat, offer blah blah blah.
Did the seller recommend the transport company by any chance.
Developing well this thread - I'll be disappointed if the seller of the B8 didn't suggest the collection company.... Spicey stuff.
And to the OP - leave it. Not worth the hassle for that much dosh. Oh and letterbox; yup
Just to keep this going my there are some well off guys on this forum £350.00 is IMO a lot of money to jizz up the wall and going back to my question who did the OP pay the £350 to and by what method?
I agree. £350 would get you a decent bottle of single malt.
The fact is the car was probably already sold when he promised it to you. You were just the back up if the 1st deal went sour as happens more than ever nowadays.
I'd spend the extra £35 and go small claims court. Even if you don't win it will be a worry for him up to that point, so worth the £35 for being a t***er.
Pmsl
So if our here doesn't win do you think all it will have cost him is £35? Read my earlier post. The only reason to initiate a small claims action for such a small amount is in the hope that the other side doesn't fight it, backs down, and coughs up before it ever sees the inside of a court. My guess is you aren't in business.
I remember Nigel Mansell doing a similar thing, and being forced to source an identical Ferrari.
It's just a matter of time...
The OP's gone a bit quiet on this?
If the transport company was organised through the seller then it could be a case of fraud or deception or whatever. At the very least a case would exist to recover the monies via the SCC.
If the OP booked his own transporter on the strength of a phone call with a stranger for a car he hadn't even seen, then mea culpa.
Do you remember his "dispute" with the IoM planning department? Hubris...
You guessed right I'm not in business but as it's totally irrelevant I'm not concerned. I disagree that he should hope the other side doesn't "fight back". That's the whole idea of court, someone else deciding who is right or wrong. Well that's what appears to happen on Judge Judy anyway.
I try to avoid offering "advice" on any matter on which I'm clueless.
Toys out of pram, and a big mound of earth spring to mind. Oh, and then off to Jersey ;)
It's just a matter of time...
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