Formula 1 2016

**snowman** · 9th August 2016, 17:16

Originally Posted by TBKBABAB

Christian Fittipaldi ahead of Lewis Hamilton..............only thing I remember him for was colliding with his team mate on
the last lap on the finishing straight at Monza in 1993 and doing a complete flip and then crossing the line

Bloody hell!!!! I saw Fittipaldi and my mind read Emerson - Christian??!!??!

Evidence, if you needed it, that there's a flaw or two in this bloke's calculations!

M.

**hogthrob** · 9th August 2016, 20:16

They actually remarked on Christian Fittipaldi:

Bizarrely Christian Fittipaldi, nephew of ninth-placed two-time world champion Emerson, is ranked in 11th spot despite only notching a highest-placed finish in the Drivers’ Championship of 13th in his three-year F1 career.
According to the study, “Fittipaldi consistently outperformed his team-mates, and because he never raced for a ‘good’ team, the standard required to get a high ranking is lower.
“Of course, this model cannot say that C. Fittipaldi would have won championships had he raced for a better team… but the results suggest that in one aspect of good race driving at least – that is, keeping a relatively unreliable car on the road – he should be highly regarded.”

**NJH** · 9th August 2016, 22:47

Bonkers logic as it assumes your peers in those cars are all of a similar standard. We can all remember in the past some real duffers in back marker cars, ppl who bought their way into F1 like that Italian woman I can't remember the name of. In the past there was often a huge gap in performance between the front and back of the grid and it was therefore very hard to ascertain if any of those guys were any good, or the cars were just awful, apart of course from those rare cases when one of them pulled out a freak performance (Senna in the Toleman, Panis at Monaco etc.)

**hogthrob** · 10th August 2016, 01:21

I (speed) read the full thing (minus the calculation bits, which were way beyond my understanding). I think they were trying to develop a methodology for comparing workers, and chose to apply it to F1 drivers purely for want of something to apply it to. They acknowledge most of the points raised here, such as Hakkinen, Surer etc. One of the things they favoured in their scoring was finishing races. This is a mistake imo, as modern cars are far more reliable than cars from even 10 years ago. Regarding the 'vs. team mate' thing, they point out that they can't account for team orders. That presumably handicaps Barrichello and Massa, for example.

**snowman** · 10th August 2016, 08:50

I've not read it, but the 'explanations' sound more like excuses for oddball results, which suggest a more fundamental flaw.

It reads remarkably like the manager of our IT team in India who has an excuse for every delay and failure and so never does anything about the systemic failings of his department - Sorry, bad start to the day

M.

**Dazzler** · 10th August 2016, 09:02

Originally Posted by snowman

I've not read it, but the 'explanations' sound more like excuses for oddball results, which suggest a more fundamental flaw.

It reads remarkably like the manager of our IT team in India who has an excuse for every delay and failure and so never does anything about the systemic failings of his department - Sorry, bad start to the day

M.

Originally Posted by From Wiki

Putt's Law

The book proposes 'Putt's Law' and 'Putt's Corollary':

Putt's Law: "Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage and those who manage what they do not understand."
Putt's Corollary: "Every technical hierarchy, in time, develops a competence inversion."with incompetence being "flushed out of the lower levels" of a technocratic hierarchy, ensuring that technically competent people remain directly in charge of the actual technology while those without technical competence move into management.

**snowman** · 10th August 2016, 09:41

Is there one that states that people are promoted from jobs their good at (typically technical ones) into ones they're not (managerial roles) meaning that you lose a good technical person and everyone suffers a bad manager?

M

**Dazzler** · 10th August 2016, 09:45

No idea - but I like the Peter Principle - "Everyone rises to his or her level of incompetence"

In fact it seems an established policy at my place of work.

**snowman** · 10th August 2016, 09:58

Originally Posted by Dazzler

No idea - but I like the Peter Principle - "Everyone rises to his or her level of incompetence"

In fact it seems an established policy at my place of work.

Nearly EVERYWHERE I've worked...

Errr.... hold on....

M

**NJH** · 10th August 2016, 10:48

Seen that a lot, in many cases it boils down to not being able to come up with a realistic transition plan (i.e. several small realistically achievable steps of change over several years). People massively underestimate how difficult and how long such plans will take to enact so instead they try and big bang jump into a different process or model of work which invariably fails spectacularly, or they just give up and don't try at all. Changing a culture in the work place in particular takes a long time, this is another fundamental failing as typically the place one wants to get to is one which only works with a completely different work place culture, and those given the advice ignore the culture and only look at tools/processes/procedures. Those who think this stuff is easy are suffering about from that other famous effect, Dunning-Kruger.

**TBKBABAB** · 22nd August 2016, 14:33

Little bit of fun during the mid season break - I got 8/10

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/37137917

**CardShark** · 22nd August 2016, 17:28

Originally Posted by TBKBABAB

Little bit of fun during the mid season break - I got 8/10

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/37137917

7/10. Frustratingly talked myself out of a couple of correct answers...

**hogthrob** · 22nd August 2016, 17:34

9/10, mostly through good guessing. I got Johnnie Dumfries wrong, having convinced myself it was Henry Surtees.

**Saint-Just** · 22nd August 2016, 17:36

8/10 here too, more by good luck than by management though as I would not have been able to name half of them.

**TBKBABAB** · 22nd August 2016, 17:41

Yep quite a bit of luck with my 8/10...annoyed with myself on No.3

**Backward point** · 22nd August 2016, 18:22

10/10.

**tiny73** · 22nd August 2016, 20:48

Originally Posted by Backward point

10/10.

That does not surprise me at all. Your knowledge and analysis is missed on the F1 thread IMHO.

**JeffCansell** · 22nd August 2016, 21:30

7/10 - Should have been 8 - I recognized Tiff but didn't know that he'd entered the 1980 Belgium GP, which oddly is where I'm off to on Friday morning :-)

**PickleB** · 28th August 2016, 13:10

Belgium...what a way to start a race! Plank on fire...?

Edit: Just noticed...Alonso passed Hamilton from the back of the grid, both on medium compound.

Edit 2: Thereafter, I fell asleep...what did I miss?

**Andyg** · 28th August 2016, 15:40

You missed one of the Renaults embedding itself into the tyre wall - nasty and d a damage limitation drive from The Cockwomble.

I imagine the stewards might also be having a Chat with Max (the brave, but stupid) and Carlos (the stupid).

Excellent drives also by the Alonso and a sweary Kimi

**PickleB** · 28th August 2016, 15:47

Originally Posted by Andyg

You missed one of the Renaults embedding itself into the tyre wall - nasty and d a damage limitation drive from The Cockwomble.

I imagine the stewards might also be having a Chat with Max (the brave, but stupid) and Carlos (the stupid).

Excellent drives also by the Alonso and a sweary Kimi

I saw KM's big off. Scary, so glad he's OK. The stewards seem to have given MV a pass (home race advantage?), but I imagine that Kimi will be having a word in his ear. And that Max will be receptive.

Best bit (that I saw) was the podium! Great to see that big smile back again.

**thieuster** · 28th August 2016, 16:21

Raikonen should be quiet. He nearly derailed his team mate Vettel who in his position turned to the right, hitting Verstappen. KR did all he could to eliminate two opponents. MV's nose was busted and -after the race- it was clear that the Red Bull's floor was damaged too. So when KR starts talking about other drivers' techniques, he should look at his own performance first. In short, KR is confronted with a younger driver who's not impressed by KR reputation and will not give in without a fight.

Before MV went inside the pit for the last time, there was a nice moment. KR did all he could overtaking MV, who let him go - gave way and let KR overtake him. Then, MV stepped on the gas on the straight and overtook KR without any trouble, showing clearly who the faster driver is.

Menno

**Scepticalist** · 28th August 2016, 18:06

The dice fell well for LH today, though I was half hoping that it would be a little tougher - the sight of him clawing his way back up the field would have been nice.

**Dazzler** · 28th August 2016, 18:08

Didn't see the race as was at work.

I know Rosberg not that popular but why was he booed on the podium - sound like all he did was have a good but boring day out car testing at the front.

**Argee1977** · 28th August 2016, 19:48

Originally Posted by Scepticalist

The dice fell well for LH today, though I was half hoping that it would be a little tougher - the sight of him clawing his way back up the field would have been nice.

Starting from the back isn't really that much of a problem for the dominant cars these days, every race seems to have incidents that get the safety car out that just erases good work that some cars do during the race, it bunches them up and allows the power and speed of the mercedes to just carve up the opponents.

Never understood why there isn't a way of holding the cars to the gaps that they had before an incident, if someone is building up a lead, and by doing this being less fuel efficient or wearing their tyres faster is it really fair that they are then bunched up with those who might have been more efficient, giving them an advantage?

**andy tims** · 28th August 2016, 21:49

The Ham got lucky but still a great drive.

Surprise Rosberg go booed so close to Germany.

Vettel caused the issue at turn 1, not Kimi.

Max is great, but he does need a bit of a chat.

**watchcollector1** · 28th August 2016, 21:51

Originally Posted by andy tims

The Ham got lucky but still a great drive.

Surprise Rosberg go booed so close to Germany

Coincidentally it's also the closest race to the UK (excluding Silverstone of course!).

**Dr.f** · 28th August 2016, 21:54

Originally Posted by tiny73

That does not surprise me at all. Your knowledge and analysis is missed on the F1 thread IMHO.

+1

**PickleB** · 28th August 2016, 22:01

Originally Posted by andy tims

The Ham got lucky but still a great drive.

Surprise Rosberg go booed so close to Germany.

Vettel caused the issue at turn 1, not Kimi.

Max is great, but he does need a bit of a chat.

Lest there be any doubt, I was not referring to turn 1 in my previous post. Rather, I was reflecting this:

**Dazzler** · 28th August 2016, 22:43

Jeez, you gotta have some nuts to drive Spa.

https://youtu.be/IwaW_kTR65o

**Huertecilla** · 29th August 2016, 10:08

Originally Posted by andy tims

Vettel caused the issue at turn 1, not Kimi.

Imo nobody caused it directly.
Vettel left room for one car as he could not see Verstappen on the inside and the move by Verstappen was overly optimistic.
As such I can see why the latter perhaps has most 'blame'.
Raikkonen was simply cought in the middle.

Imo Verstappen is a god send for F1 but his ageessiveness is potentially lethal.
The problem with Verstappen is total lack of respect.
These blokes are competing at 300 kn/h and must be able to trust eachother. With Verstappen they can not. After the race he stated that he was not going to just wave the Ferraris by; he would rather drive them off the track.
This is the wrong attitude. Plain wrong.
Although I am Dutch, my awe for his talent is drowning in disgust about his arrogant stupidity.

**PickleB** · 29th August 2016, 11:10

Lots of different opinions expressed in this thread and some more here, BBClink:

Mercedes F1 boss Toto Wolff said Verstappen's driving was "refreshing but it's dangerous".

"He comes in here no fear, no respect, puts the elbows out," Wolff said.

"He reminds me of the great ones, of Lewis [Hamilton], of Ayrton Senna and you can clearly see some guys around are starting to think twice how to overtake him.

"Until now, all that has proven he is on the right track. The FIA has not penalised him. The only thing that has happened is that he was being given a hard time in some driver briefing.

"Maybe he is going to get a harder time in the next driver briefing. I just fear it might end up in the wall heavily one day."

Raikkonen's team-mate Sebastian Vettel, who had his own on-the-edge tussle with Verstappen during the race, said he would try to "educate" the Red Bull driver.

"I am not a fan of penalising people," the four-time world champion said. "We need talk to each other and have respect.

"There have been a couple of manoeuvres that the rest of the field is not happy with his behaviour.

"The best way to educate is just to talk rather than create a fuss in the media. We are men."

**Huertecilla** · 29th August 2016, 17:48

Originally Posted by PickleB

"I am not a fan of penalising people," the four-time world champion said. "We need talk to each other and have respect.

"There have been a couple of manoeuvres that the rest of the field is not happy with his behaviour.

"The best way to educate is just to talk rather than create a fuss in the media. We are men."

Kinda like that.

Btw, why was the release of Alonso not deemed unsafe? Did not look safe.

**andrewcregan** · 31st August 2016, 08:53

Saw this on display the other day.....

Mind blowing number of switches, dials and buttons.
Not sure whether it is a 2016 Nico Rosberg one?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**tiny73** · 31st August 2016, 11:47

Originally Posted by andrewcregan

Saw this on display the other day.....

Mind blowing number of switches, dials and buttons.
Not sure whether it is a 2016 Nico Rosberg one?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Not sure but I remember during Spa at the weekend the commentator saying Lewis' thumb was hovering over the yellow DRS button in the top left corner which suggests either this is Nico's with a different layout or its a slightly older version.

Editted to add: Is that 2 clutch paddles behind the wheel? I think 2016 steering wheels have only 1??

This also goes some way to showing how many different possibilities Lewis had to navigate to find the right engine mode in Baku without team radio (Nico had shifted into the wrong mode himself apparently so was able to backtrack, Lewis had started in this mode which was set by the team).

**Geoff W** · 31st August 2016, 11:53

Originally Posted by Dazzler

Jeez, you gotta have some nuts to drive Spa.

https://youtu.be/IwaW_kTR65o

Gasly is a huge talent...Q is who he'll replace, not when.

**Huertecilla** · 31st August 2016, 11:55

Originally Posted by andrewcregan

Saw this on display the other day.....

Mind blowing number of switches, dials and buttons.

Ah, that makes me appreciate;

**PickleB** · 31st August 2016, 12:19

Originally Posted by andrewcregan

Saw this on display the other day.....

...image...

Mind blowing number of switches, dials and buttons.
Not sure whether it is a 2016 Nico Rosberg one?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Certainly not LH's 2016 wheel (if that's still the right term):

...or NR's:

Edit: The one you saw on display is from 2013, if this video is anything to go by: F1 Steering Wheels - Lewis Hamilton vs Nico Rosberg.

Edit 2: Yep...Nico's wheel from 2013 (videolink), cf Lewis's wheel (videolink).

**Jeremy67** · 31st August 2016, 15:01

Originally Posted by Dazzler

Jeez, you gotta have some nuts to drive Spa.

https://youtu.be/IwaW_kTR65o

Ask Stefan Bellof about overtaking round Eau Rouge. (Of course it's been made easier since then).

**Dazzler** · 31st August 2016, 21:21

Originally Posted by Jeremy67

Ask Stefan Bellof about overtaking round Eau Rouge. (Of course it's been made easier since then).

Oh but only if we could ask him.

**lordloz** · 31st August 2016, 21:43

Originally Posted by andrewcregan

Mind blowing number of switches, dials and buttons.
Not sure whether it is a 2016 Nico Rosberg one?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

this is still THE best steering wheel in F1 and my favourite one..... Kimi's Lotus one

free image hosting

**MakeColdplayHistory** · 31st August 2016, 22:30

Originally Posted by lordloz

this is still THE best steering wheel in F1 and my favourite one..... Kimi's Lotus one

free image hosting

I want one just like that for my Land Rover but with an added 'Gnnnaaaaaaaaar' button.

**andrewcregan** · 31st August 2016, 23:42

Originally Posted by lordloz

this is still THE best steering wheel in F1 and my favourite one..... Kimi's Lotus one

free image hosting

Where is the (Personality) Boost button?

**CardShark** · 1st September 2016, 00:05

Originally Posted by Jeremy67

Ask Stefan Bellof about overtaking round Eau Rouge. (Of course it's been made easier since then).

Originally Posted by Dazzler

Oh but only if we could ask him.

He still holds the outright lap record for the Nordschleife, set over 30 years ago and unlikely to be broken any time soon, if ever. He was driving a Porsche 956 both then and for that fateful day at Spa.

**andrewcregan** · 1st September 2016, 00:12

This was also displayed with Nico's steering wheel

Funny what can be found in a shopping centre in Aberdeen!

**thieuster** · 1st September 2016, 06:27

Originally Posted by lordloz

this is still THE best steering wheel in F1 and my favourite one..... Kimi's Lotus one

free image hosting

Can't believe it. In the middle of Kimi's sits a big red button with, 'lamentation' on it for when he's stuck behind Verstappen.

Menno

**Chris W** · 1st September 2016, 14:15

Not posted much in this since it started - as tbh I haven't watched a massive mount of racing this year.

I'm a bit confused over the 'stock piling of engines' for LH.

He took a huge penalty for changing his engine, but now seems to have penalty free access to the same spec engine, but would take a penalty if any upgrades/token were used?

Have I missed something?

**CardShark** · 1st September 2016, 15:40

^^ He was due to use his 6th engine at Spa thus going over the 5 engine threshold, in each session prior to the race Merc put a new engine in knowing that any penalties given can only be taken in one race. I think LH had a 55 place grid penalty though what wasn't "used up" at Spa couldn't be rolled over to Italy and so on therefore it made sense to bung a few engines in the car in one go. He now has access to a fresh batch of engines for the rest of the season that he can use penalty free.
Had Merc just used the one new engine for Spa they would have been at the back of the grid both there and then again when another new engine was used, there wouldn't be any chance of the Spa engine making it to the end of the season.

**Chris W** · 1st September 2016, 16:47

Oh right - so they threw a few engines in the car during the practice sessions, took a penalty for each engine and can now use those engines as and when as they've already taken the penalty.

Didn't realise they'd swapped a few during the weekend.

Sent from my Wileyfox Swift using Tapatalk

**andrewcregan** · 1st September 2016, 20:15

I see Massa is retiring

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37244253

A good article I thought.

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