Vintage Chronograph watches 38mm and over

[Neilw3030]

I am starting to develop an interest in vintage chronographs of 38mm and bigger, from around the 1930s-50s era. There seems to be a lot about and the price varies hugely. Now I understand that repair costs are going to be high and even impossible in some cases because of spares availability, but do you guys have and recommendations or avoid at all costs ? Not looking to spend a huge amount of money, maybe start off at a couple hundred and see where it goes.

[Neil.C]

TBH I don't think you will find many 1930's-50's chronographs of 38mm or larger very easily. Just not many made and especially not at the budget you have.

Most are 35-36mm IME and usually chrome plated cases.

At the cheaper end most will have Landeron's or some sort of Venus movement, some Venus' can be hard to get spares for, so I would recommend getting something in good working order.

Probably best to stay away from Pierce unless working fine too.

I actually like chrono's from that evocative period and have a few.

[walkerwek1958]

Good advice from Neil; be wary of anything that doesn`t work correctly, spares are likely to be a problem. Also look for evidence of poor work in the past. Sluggish running of the watch isn`t likely to be a big problem, but faults with chrono functions are.

Look for unsightly pitting/damage to chromed cases; not viable to fix.

Paul

[Neilw3030]

what piqued my interest was seeing a chronographe Suisse I think it was, so have started looking. I have fairly big wrists so just think 36mm is going to look a bit lost on me. there seems to be some very reasonably priced items around, but I do understand you get what you pay for.
A lot of gold cased ones around also, not sure how I feel about that over steel really, open to suggestions

[Padders]

TBH I don't think you will find many 1930's-50's chronographs of 38mm or larger very easily. Just not many made and especially not at the budget you have.

Most are 35-36mm IME and usually chrome plated cases.

At the cheaper end most will have Landeron's or some sort of Venus movement, some Venus' can be hard to get spares for, so I would recommend getting something in good working order.

Probably best to stay away from Pierce unless working fine too.

I actually like chrono's from that evocative period and have a few.

I am inclined to disagree! There are bucket loads of 38mm Chronographe Suisse chronos left around from that exact era and they are pretty much the cheapest way to get into a vintage chrono. These tend to have Landeron 48 or later variations and were manufactured over exactly the period you list, from late 30s until late 50s. There seem to be chromed brass, gold plate and 18K flavours out there, surprisingly not all that far apart in price due to the fact that there is actually very little gold in the cases which are rather thin and fragile. These were built with some badged up as other brands or even sterile but barring some variation in dial all are fairly similar 2 register designs, in both orientations. Obviously in 60-80 year old pieces there will be plenty of variety in terms of quality but take you time and find the one that is right for you. Here is mine, 18K Landeron 48 model, I picked it up for a few hundred quid not so long ago:

EDIT: just noticed that there is some disagreement on the web regarding the sizes of these, all I can say is that mine is 38mm or so.

[Neilw3030]

I am inclined to disagree! There are bucket loads of 38mm Chronographe Suisse chronos left around from that exact era and they are pretty much the cheapest way to get into a vintage chrono. These tend to have Landeron 48 or later variations and were manufactured over exactly the period you list, from late 30s until late 50s. There seem to be chromed brass, gold plate and 18K flavours out there, surprisingly not all that far apart in price due to the fact that there is actually very little gold in the cases which are rather thin and fragile. These were built with some badged up as other brands or even sterile but barring some variation in dial all are fairly similar 2 register designs, in both orientations. Obviously in 60-80 year old pieces there will be plenty of variety in terms of quality but take you time and find the one that is right for you. Here is mine, 18K Landeron 48 model, I picked it up for a few hundred quid not so long ago:

EDIT: just noticed that there is some disagreement on the web regarding the sizes of these, all I can say is that mine is 38mm or so.

That is the kind of style I am keen on, does it wear big because of no bezel??
Have seen gold ones for anything from £200 to well over £2000, such a big variance in price

[Padders]

Yes I would say it does wear big, as you say, the overall feel is of something more like 40mm. I wore mine to a black tie do last night and it felt right at home. Get one, they are huge value for money but don't go mountaineering with it as they are not enormously robust. You may as well get the 18k version since the prices are so similar. I reckon a goodun can be got for circa £500 tops and an average one for £400 or so.

I don't know how else you can get a solid 18k chrono for that that money.

[SimonK]

Once I'd had my Delbana serviced (Landeron 51 movement) it worked very well, but I guess the movement wasn't adjusted to different positions as it needed to be laid flat to keep time overnight; laying it on its side resulted in a big gain or loss over several hours.

[Padders]

When I put mine on the timing machine it looks a little more variable in different positions that my modern stuff but as long as I don't worry about it keeping time to the second is does me just fine. I never wear it for more than a couple of days anyhow. I would think it is within +/- 10secs which is obviously useable but I wouldn't accept it in a more modern piece as I tend to regulate all my daily wearers to within 0 to +5secs if I can. I didn't buy it for ultra accurate time keeping, I just loved the classic elegant look. Even though they aren't particularly robust, many of them were used by soldiers, particularly in the artillery for ranging as the Telemeter scale round the dial can be used to gauge how far away an event such as a bang is based on the difference between seeing it and hearing the report. Or so my memory reckons anyhow. In essence it is a very pretty tool watch!

[Neil.C]

TBH I don't think you will find many 1930's-50's chronographs of 38mm or larger very easily. Just not many made and especially not at the budget you have.

Most are 35-36mm IME and usually chrome plated cases.

At the cheaper end most will have Landeron's or some sort of Venus movement, some Venus' can be hard to get spares for, so I would recommend getting something in good working order.

Probably best to stay away from Pierce unless working fine too.

I actually like chrono's from that evocative period and have a few.

I am inclined to disagree! There are bucket loads of 38mm Chronographe Suisse chronos left around from that exact era and they are pretty much the cheapest way to get into a vintage chrono. These tend to have Landeron 48 or later variations and were manufactured over exactly the period you list, from late 30s until late 50s. There seem to be chromed brass, gold plate and 18K flavours out there, surprisingly not all that far apart in price due to the fact that there is actually very little gold in the cases which are rather thin and fragile. These were built with some badged up as other brands or even sterile but barring some variation in dial all are fairly similar 2 register designs, in both orientations. Obviously in 60-80 year old pieces there will be plenty of variety in terms of quality but take you time and find the one that is right for you. Here is mine, 18K Landeron 48 model, I picked it up for a few hundred quid not so long ago:

EDIT: just noticed that there is some disagreement on the web regarding the sizes of these, all I can say is that mine is 38mm or so.

I know all about Chronographe Suisse, had a few and wouldn't recommend them TBH, even though they are cheap. There is a reason for it.

They are, as you say, generally Landeron 48's which are a decent workmanlike movement but the cases are very thin and cheaply made in Italy.

The gold ones usually have a base metal or steel stiffener to stop the case collapsing.

They certainly look very nice but it is the cases that let them down, hence the cheap purchase prices.

[Padders]

I know all about Chronographe Suisse, had a few and wouldn't recommend them TBH, even though they are cheap. There is a reason for it.

They are, as you say, generally Landeron 48's which are a decent workmanlike movement but the cases are very thin and cheaply made in Italy.

The gold ones usually have a base metal or steel stiffener to stop the case collapsing.

They certainly look very nice but it is the cases that let them down, hence the cheap purchase prices.

Well a G-shock or Omega X-33 they ain't but I wouldn't agree that they are all that bad and in any event case damage is a hell of a lot easier to get fixed in 18K than stainless steel. I know a guy who can fabricate and fit new lugs for gold cases for instance very cheaply. I have heard reports of models with hollow lugs which are probably to be avoided but going by the 3 I have seen I think they are robust enough for a dress watch.

Can you suggest an a more robust alternative for the low price of the Chronographe Suisse models? I can't think of anything else of that age, size and class.

[Neil.C]

Well a G-shock or Omega X-33 they ain't but I wouldn't agree that they are all that bad and in any event case damage is a hell of a lot easier to get fixed in 18K than stainless steel. I know a guy who can fabricate and fit new lugs for gold cases for instance very cheaply. I have heard reports of models with hollow lugs which are probably to be avoided but going by the 3 I have seen I think they are robust enough for a dress watch.

Can you suggest an a more robust alternative for the low price of the Chromographe Suisse models? I can't think of anything else of that age, size and class.

No I can't, which is what I said in the first place.

The OP didn't want anything smaller but that is where the main choice is.

Plenty of 35-36mms like these of mine here...

[Padders]

All very lovely. The middle one is a stunner though the minute hand looks strangely short.

[sweets]

I have to agree that 38m versions from this date are not normal, they are the exception rather than the rule.
Almost all the movements of this era were roughly 13 or14 ligne, or about 31 mm or so.
With a case thickness which often gave no WR, 36mm was normal, and a spacer was required to bulk the watch up to 38mm. As such the larger ones are rarer.
But lovely nonetheless, and Padders' one is very attractive.
My little Lemania from a tad later than this is under 35mm.
Dave

[Padders]

I have to agree that 38m versions from this date are not normal, they are the exception rather than the rule.
Almost all the movements of this era were roughly 13 or14 ligne, or about 31 mm or so.
With a case thickness which often gave no WR, 36mm was normal, and a spacer was required to bulk the watch up to 38mm. As such the larger ones are rarer.
But lovely nonetheless, and Padders' one is very attractive.
My little Lemania from a tad later than this is under 35mm.
Dave

You live and learn, I had no idea mine wasn't bog standard. A 38m case must certainly be a sight to behold though!

[Neil.C]

All very lovely. The middle one is a stunner though the minute hand looks strangely short.

Compurs are very rare now, date from the '30's - '40's.

Original blued steel hands. The minute hand is a perfect length as it reaches into the chapter perfectly.

[walkerwek1958]

I've never been a fan of older chronographs but I think I could be tempted; reading this thread has been interesting and informative, with a civilised discussion and exchange of views........that's how it ought to be on all threads!

I never realised how thin some of the gold cases can be , definitely a point to look out for when buying.

Paul

[Webwatchmaker]

No I can't, which is what I said in the first place.

The OP didn't want anything smaller but that is where the main choice is.

Plenty of 35-36mms like these of mine here...

The Leonidas is gorgeous.
A proper watchmakers watch !

Did I ever post this one I found for 50p at Yeovil car boot ?

[dice]

I had the same itch as you, OP. Then I ended up getting two. Pics to follow of the Seiko, but this one has a Landeron which I understand parts are pretty common for, and is pretty abundant.

[greasemonkey]

well this is 38mm and records time by the top button stopping the movement and the bottom one restarts it,anybody got any idea of its age?cant say i ever seen another for sale so not much help,sorry........................................ .........

[SimonK]

Just a thought, but Seiko made a jumbo chronograph in the seventies - reference 6138 3002 - at 42mm. There's always a few on ebay and you could find a reasonably tidy example for around 300 quids.

[Neil.C]

Just a thought, but Seiko made a jumbo chronograph in the seventies - reference 6138 3002 - at 42mm. There's always a few on ebay and you could find a reasonably tidy example for around 300 quids.

T'is true but the OP stated he wanted 1930's-'50's.

Otherwise the 6138/9's are always a good bet.

[Neil.C]

well this is 38mm and records time by the top button stopping the movement and the bottom one restarts it,anybody got any idea of its age?cant say i ever seen another for sale so not much help,sorry........................................ .........

Not seen that particular one but have seen similar. I think like many they were marketed under different names.

I'd say it was post war - '50's.

[primabaleron]

From 60s, 40mm:

[Neilw3030]

Interesting info coming up, every bit helps. In reply to a previous post, I have four seiko 6139s and just recently a 1970 Omega seamaster 3 hand.
This started as looking for a birth year Rolex from 1958, but they are all too small, and/or too expensive. And has now turned into an interest in vintage chronos of the era mentioned. I know they are not going to be robust, but then I won't be wearing it daily.
I don't want to spend much as it's an itch I want to explore before I start spending. So thankyou to all who posted pics and info.

[Neilw3030]

From 60s, 40mm:

That is lovely, really, but just too late. The 60-70s is a whole different area I'm also interested in, a lot of fabulous creations, but not what I want to focus on at the moment, thanks any way.

[Neil.C]

I've never been a fan of older chronographs but I think I could be tempted; reading this thread has been interesting and informative, with a civilised discussion and exchange of views........that's how it ought to be on all threads!

You rarely see any aggro over vintage watches Paul.

People buy vintage because they are interested in the movements, the mechanics and the feel of older watches in general.

They are not seen as status symbols so there is no need to argue about what is best or try to justify spending huge amounts of money on them as we sometimes see with people who only buy new.

[ktmog6uk]

Must. Not. Keep. Trailing. Ebay. For. 18k. Chronos. That. Are. Probably. Basketcases...

[sweets]

I would really consider stretching your size range too. I agree 38mm is nice, but it is not everything.

I bought this because I had to really, it was everything to do with my cataloging BBC Lemania timepieces, and I was offered it after another forum member decided (without seeing it) that it would be too small for him.
And it is small, like I say, a smidge over 34mm.

But it is all dial, and wears larger.

And it is just downright lovely. I wouldn't be without it now.



And of course, you can "increase" the size of things by playing tricks with them. I occasionally wear this on a bund-type strap where the back-piece serves to enlarge the watch considerably.

D

[unclealec]

My "Norina" Chronographe Suisse is 38mm; I am not happy with anything smaller, given my eyesight!
And it is my birth year watch (I have decided).

[jcm3]

From 60s, 40mm:

More details about this watch please.

[primabaleron]

More details about this watch please.

This is Enicar Sherpa Graph powered by Valjoux 72

[deerworrier]

1948, Eterna, Valjoux 72, 38mm case, all original and still wonder why the hell I traded it




its original box with strap and spring bars! sold in CHCH

[Padders]

My "Norina" Chronographe Suisse is 38mm; I am not happy with anything smaller, given my eyesight!
And it is my birth year watch (I have decided).

Let me guess, you changed your birth certificate to match the age of the watch?

[Padders]

Compurs are very rare now, date from the '30's - '40's.

Original blued steel hands. The minute hand is a perfect length as it reaches into the chapter perfectly.

Yes I see that, I wasn't suggesting that the watch wasn't right or original just that the floating chapter ring design it features, which does add a lot of interest, makes for a smaller hand set that the case would otherwise warrant. It is still a lovely piece for sure.

[unclealec]

Let me guess, you changed your birth certificate to match the age of the watch?

Nice try.
I can't find a way of obtaining totally accurate dating info from the movement number, but I can place it to the years surrounding the time my alien pod was opened, so near enough say I.

[Neilw3030]

Nice try.
I can't find a way of obtaining totally accurate dating info from the movement number, but I can place it to the years surrounding the time my alien pod was opened, so near enough say I.

Ha ha, now that's an approach to birth year watches I like

[Neil.C]

I would really consider stretching your size range too. I agree 38mm is nice, but it is not everything.

I bought this because I had to really, it was everything to do with my cataloging BBC Lemania timepieces, and I was offered it after another forum member decided (without seeing it) that it would be too small for him.
And it is small, like I say, a smidge over 34mm.

But it is all dial, and wears larger.

And it is just downright lovely. I wouldn't be without it now.



And of course, you can "increase" the size of things by playing tricks with them. I occasionally wear this on a bund-type strap where the back-piece serves to enlarge the watch considerably.

D

That is lovely.

Personally I find the smaller sized vintage Chrono's charming.

I have quite a few larger size chrono's but there is something about those smaller jobs....

[Darren Cal.11/12]

To the OP , there's some really sound advice being offered here by the forum members upon this thread, pretty much all of it i agree with. I would add my own thoughts by saying that your hopes to find a nice vintage chrono at 38mm aren't unrealistic but perhaps your price range may be under pressure. There really are a lot more options out there than you may first realise.
Start with some research, wade through the ebay listings and make yourself familiar with the movement names, watch brands & key words associated with your own tastes. The more obscure the brand the better as not every seller of a watch there will add in vital descriptions such as Vintage Chronograph. You could get lucky & find one thats very "off the radar" & end up getting a bargain.

I found this Heuer listed in ebay some years ago simpley as "Mens old watch"

I sweated it out the last 3 days hoping noone else would find it. It was a few years ago but it fell easily within your budget.

Good hunting - Darren

[WatchME]

This is Enicar Sherpa Graph powered by Valjoux 72

lovely! But Sherpa's have their price tag....

[sweets]

Just spotted this in one of my regular searches. Rigth era, right size. No connection with seller...etc etc

[SimonK]

A fella on a French forum has just listed this handsome 60s Junghans 88 chronograph, 38mm diameter according to the ad, for 850 euros, that's just over 600 pounds in coin of the realm.

[stere]

[walkerwek1958]

Ha ha, now that's an approach to birth year watches I like

+1.....Alec's got it nailed! Don`t get too hung up on exact years, which no-one can be certain of anyway.

Paul

[ktmog6uk]

this one is only 35mm but it's very pretty

[Webwatchmaker]

http://www.bellross.com/uk/bellross/news/#/223/

I love the hollow calendar wheel !

[Xantiagib]

don't care what size these are - want want want

[financ]

made in Japan

[IanM]

I have this Craftsman with a Landeron 248 I think. I always took it to be 1960's but it could be older I guess? It's about 37mm.

[financ]

Zodiac Lybian Air Force aka Heuer Pasadena