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Thread: The search for a vintage Rolex is stressing me out.

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarfan View Post
    I don't think the quality is being questioned, just the prices
    I thought I had made that clear it is bad form to publicly question prices on SC, if you intend buying then it is a simple procedure to send a PM.

  2. #52
    Master golfg60's Avatar
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    Just love my 1978 1665 I've had it a few years now
    Before that it sat in a draw for 24 years
    All original with bracelet also have
    1675 from 1960
    1680 from 1978
    16750 from 1982

    The 1665 on sc for sale are great watches with
    A fantastic patina





  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Thank you.

    If you go at e-bay and Chrono 24 at present there are DRSDs ranging from 18k through to 35k. The seller can ask whatever price he likes, but ultimately it is the buyer who chooses which watch he buys.

    I wish the seller of the two 1665s on SC the best of luck on a achieving a satisfactory sale.
    I am waiting to hear about better 1665's(great whites) that you are aware of, not really interested in your DRSD or anybody elses, and not really interested in the usual tat available from Chrono 24.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by 11erv View Post
    If only I'd thought to ask for advice from you and the Runner, I could have saved myself a fortune buying overpriced tat! :-)
    My comment may have come across not as intended, I have no idea whether the watches are expensive or not.

    However I do applaud someone commenting on the prices which (in his opinion) appeared unrealistic. Can't see any problem with this if folk are equally free to big-up the watches.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    I thought I had made that clear it is bad form to publicly question prices on SC, if you intend buying then it is a simple procedure to send a PM.
    Says who ?

    I don't recall that when I joined TZUK I was not allowed to question the price of anything for sale ?

    The OP originally asked for advice, are you suggesting that you would steer him to an overpriced product because it is bad form to challenge the price being asked by a fellow forumite.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    I am waiting to hear about better 1665's(great whites) that you are aware of, not really interested in your DRSD or anybody elses, and not really interested in the usual tat available from Chrono 24.
    Answer the question!

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Says who ?

    I don't recall that when I joined TZUK I was not allowed to question the price of anything for sale ?

    The OP originally asked for advice, are you suggesting that you would steer him to an overpriced product because it is bad form to challenge the price being asked by a fellow forumite.
    Are you new to the Internet? I don't know a single forum where that's acceptable.

    If the integrity of a sales listing is in doubt that's one thing - pontificating about price is something altogether different. In terms of vintage Rolex a bezel insert alone can affect the price by 10-20%, and half the "experts" on here really don't have a clue.

  8. #58
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    Answer the question!
    At no point did I say that there was better quality - check my postings and you will see that. I simply stated that there are several respected second hand watch dealers selling Great Whites with prices ranging from around the 7.5k mark upwards and that the OP needed to fully do his research to see what was available before he made any decisions.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    I thought I had made that clear it is bad form to publicly question prices on SC.
    We discuss prices of watches for sale from non-forum sellers here in Watch Talk, so should SC sellers be any different? It may be considered "bad form" by people but it's not against Eddie's rules and he's the boss. It's all been very civil

  10. #60
    Master ~dadam02~'s Avatar
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    I always think it's pointless questioning prices on SC, after all if an item is overpriced then the collective membership will decide that, by not buying it.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    At no point did I say that there was better quality - check my postings and you will see that. I simply stated that there are several respected second hand watch dealers selling Great Whites with prices ranging from around the 7.5k mark upwards and that the OP needed to fully do his research to see what was available before he made any decisions.
    Well it would appear that you have done your research so could you share your findings with the community, I would be very interested to see cheaper examples that are presently on sale that can hold a candle to the ones been offered. Its pointless stating prices for inferior quality watches because as you should be aware condition is everything so if you can point me in the direction of similiar quality items I would be very grateful. I am in no way questioning what you are saying is'nt correct but it would be nice if you could share your priveledged information with fellow forumites who like me are not in the know!
    Last edited by bobdog; 7th September 2015 at 09:52.

  12. #62
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    You seem to be missing the point bobdog. No-one is saying the two 1665s on SC are not great examples, they may be the best in the world - who knows! What a couple of us are saying is that good quality loose 1665 Great Whites can be bought around the 8000 mark. A 3k premium (37.5%) is very large and that any potential buyer should do their homework before buying so they're aware of that. You'd have to really want that particular watch, and be aware of the premium you're paying, before jumping in.

    For reference: http://www.chrono24.co.uk/search/ind...=1&sortorder=1
    Last edited by Guitarfan; 7th September 2015 at 09:55.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarfan View Post
    You seem to be missing the point bobdog. No-one is saying the two 1665s on SC are not great examples, they may be the best in the world - who knows! What a couple of us are saying is that good quality loose 1665 Great Whites can be bought around the 8000 mark. A 3k premium (37.5%) is very large and that any potential buyer should do their homework before buying so they're aware of that. You'd have to really want that particular watch, and be aware of the premium you're paying, before jumping in.
    No I am not missing the point, all I want to know is where these mythical cheaper examples of comparable quality are being sold.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin123 View Post
    Tread with care and read up on VRF the stories about this seller. He finds a lot of perfect Rolex with great chamfers!!
    Now, now... it's entirely possible that he could have a magic beanstalk that leads to an unlimited supply of consitently-coloured dials and hands, pristine-looking, crisply-chamfered "original" cases. How the cases manage to stay in such fresly-finished condition while the bezels show signs of actually being worn remains a mystery, however. Probably something to do with those magic beans again, and nothing at all to do with refinishing by laser welding or assembling watches from loose parts.

    To be fair, at least he seems to have stopped claiming they're "unpolished", though it was a little too late to keep him from being shown the door at VRF. :P

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belligero View Post
    Now, now... it's entirely possible that he could have a magic beanstalk that leads to an unlimited supply of consitently-coloured dials and hands, pristine-looking, crisply-chamfered "original" cases. How the cases manage to stay in such fresly-finished condition while the bezels show signs of actually being worn remains a mystery, however. Probably something to do with those magic beans again, and nothing at all to do with refinishing by laser welding or assembling watches from loose parts.

    To be fair, at least he seems to have stopped claiming they're "unpolished", though it was a little too late to keep him from being shown the door at VRF. :P
    Yep I heard about him, which is why the vintage market is such a minefield, I am not saying there are'nt any genuine sellers on Chrono but even the experts can be fooled so I tend to deal with known good dealers or genuine collectors off SC of which there are quite a few.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    No I am not missing the point, all I want to know is where these mythical cheaper examples of comparable quality are being sold.
    Mythical ? .....They are out there and do appear regularly. If you must buy one instantly then you pay the price of those that are available at that moment in time.

    The price asked for any used watch is only what the owner thinks it's worth or can get... If it's overvalued/priced it doesn't sell regardless of quality.

  17. #67
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    when we are looking for a watch to buy we all go through the same process, initially it is a form of window shopping, be it in a shop window at an AD, a listing on SC or a dealer listing a second hand watch on a website.

    Good impressions count and help decide if we want to take our enquiries any further or walk away there and then. The two watches on SC certainly pass the first impressions test as does the watch listed below.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rolex-Sead...item2ee55fe059

    Now at this point I have to state that for all three watches above I neither know the sellers or have seen beyond some high quality photograpghs. This is not a form of privileged information, it is simply following a process advised on these forums time after time, do your reasearch, buy the seller then consider the watch.

    Based on my research I would suggest that the rail dial watch on e-bay is the rarer of the three watches, has the most investment potential as it is closely linked to the comex watches in dial layout and surprisingly it is the cheapest of the three.

    If I was a buyer my next stage would be to undertake research on the seller to see what I could establish from feedback etc, this is easier to do with bricks and mortar estalishments via Google than it is to check out an individual. If satisfied I would then contact the seller to arrange a chat about the watch. I have never bought a Rolex without having a detailed phone conversation with the seller. If everything looked good after that then I would decide if I wanted to buy or not.

    Here is another decent looking 1665 - fresh from a Rolex service and priced under 7.5k.

    http://www.dream-watches.co.uk/vinta...category_id=73

    And finally, the one that I traded is still for sale and also has Rolex service history.

    http://www.watchguru.com/FullCatalog...-Dweller/12709

    Can we agree now that there are some decent 1665s out there !!!

  18. #68
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    The only one I would comment on as you traded it in so you will know more about it, For 8.5k the crown guards look thin, not original insert probable luminova pip, have the hands been replaced? A good replacement insert with trit pip could be about 500 which would take the price to 9k, not exactly a good buy given the over polishing and hands. Would rather take the 10k one on SC for the patina alone and the Andrew Shear provenance.
    If I have been harsh and you know better then I apologise as its not ideal giving a verdict from those pics.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    Believe me, if you are looking for a 1665 you will not find better than the two John is selling on SC at the moment, priced at 10k and 11k they are beauties, if I didnt already have one then I wouldnt hesitate, if you can't get on SC and are interested drop me a pm and I will put you in touch.
    Post edited.
    Whoops sorry didnt realise it was you, offer withdrawn.
    Any chance of a reason as to why?
    I've checked H&V, but can't see anything...

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    The only one I would comment on as you traded it in so you will know more about it, For 8.5k the crown guards look thin, not original insert probable luminova pip, have the hands been replaced? A good replacement insert with trit pip could be about 500 which would take the price to 9k, not exactly a good buy given the over polishing and hands. Would rather take the 10k one on SC for the patina alone and the Andrew Shear provenance.
    If I have been harsh and you know better then I apologise as its not ideal giving a verdict from those pics.
    Personally, I think the one that I had is overpriced. As stated earlier I bought it for 6.5k with the various problems that you have highlighted known about upfront. The hands are replacements and the service replacement insert does have a luminous pip. The earlier full set watch on SC is the better deal of the two listed without a doubt, but as others have stated you pay a heavy premium for the original papers.

    I just wanted to give the OP a balanced view that he can pay from around 7k for a watch which may have some minor issues right through to 12k or more for a full set watch that might be perfect. If money was no object we would all buy the top of the range watch, but if someone has a maximum budget of 8k they could still pick up a nice 1665 that has been serviced recently by Rolex.
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 7th September 2015 at 20:07.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeBird View Post
    Any chance of a reason as to why?
    I've checked H&V, but can't see anything...
    He has had his SC status revoked by the boss for dealing AFAIK.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Personally, I think the one that I had is overpriced. As stated earlier I bought it for 6.5k with the various problems that you have highlighted known about upfront. The hands are replacements and the service replacement insert does have a luminous pip. The earlier full set watch on SC is the better deal of the two listed without a doubt, but as others have stated you pay a heavy premium for the original papers.

    I just wanted to give the OP a balanced view that he can pay from around 7k for a watch which may have some minor issues right through to 12k or more for a full set watch that might be perfect. If money was no object we would all buy the top of the range watch, but if someone has a maximum budget of 8k they could still pick up a nice 1665 that has been serviced recently by Rolex.
    With me its all about being able to 'sleep at night', I would rather pay extra for the 'right' watch with good provenance from the right seller than try and pick up a bargain and as you will no doubt be aware the 'right' watch comes along very infrequently and not being an expert I rely heavily on the seller!

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    Yep I heard about him, which is why the vintage market is such a minefield, I am not saying there are'nt any genuine sellers on Chrono but even the experts can be fooled so I tend to deal with known good dealers or genuine collectors off SC of which there are quite a few.
    Absolutely provenance is so important, the vintage market has exploded in the last few years, and from limited stock there are so many good examples that alarm bells are ringing, laser welding put together odds and sods, swopped dials hands etc. The good complete ones are rare and that is why they carry a premium. The others will suffer in value from a lack of confidence in the future as more people become aware what they have is not what it should be.
    Last edited by Martin123; 7th September 2015 at 14:19. Reason: Spelling

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    With me its all about being able to 'sleep at night', I would rather pay extra for the 'right' watch with good provenance from the right seller than try and pick up a bargain and as you will no doubt be aware the 'right' watch comes along very infrequently and not being an expert I rely heavily on the seller!
    Agree totally, but this is all a learning curve and we gain more experience with every flip and trade up. It was looking at that 1665 day after day that made me decide that I had made a bad decision and that the watch wasn't for me. That lead me down the path to the DRSD that I have now. I showed that to Mike Wood who in minutes had the bracelet and case back off and gave it the once over with his loupe. He confirmed that I had bought well and that it was a nice example.
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 7th September 2015 at 20:06.

  25. #75
    ^^^ I agree with Bob that what you said is NOT correct that the two SD's on SC and I quote "the prices are a little high"!

    The ones you have posted links to are NOT in the same league as the two on SC and have no comparison...

    Having dealt with Andrew & John on numerous occasions I know where my money would go, that certainly would not be on a RD on E-bay for 9K+

    I think we are drifting off the point and also agree with Tony that is not good forum etiquette to post such things of this nature in this way.

    Opinions are like C----S, us men all have one but sometimes don't know how to use them...
    Last edited by Snoodles; 7th September 2015 at 16:22.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoodles View Post
    ^^^ I agree with Bob that what you said is NOT correct that the two SD's on SC and I quote "the prices are a little high"!

    The ones you have posted links to are NOT in the same league as the two on SC and have no comparison...

    Having dealt with Andrew & John on numerous occasions I know where my money would go, that certainly would not be on a RD on E-bay for 9K+

    I think we are drifting off the point and also agree with Tony that is not good forum etiquette to post such things of this this nature in this way.

    Opinions are like C----S, us men all have one but sometimes don't know how to use them...
    Can I respectfully suggest that double standards or even hypocrisy is creeping in here. Not so long ago there was a thread about a dealer on the South Coast selling a watch with the insignia of a Special Forces unit on it. The watch was heavilly criticised and the engraving was dismissed as amateurish, the price was described as ridiculous and the poor seller even took a personal beating in some of the postings.

    Are we saying that for any watch advertised outside of TZ it is open season, but had the same guy posted that watch on SC everyone would have stood squarely behind him because he was one of the chaps.
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 7th September 2015 at 17:19.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Are we saying that for any watch advertised outside of TZ it is open season, but had the same guy posted that watch on SC everyone would have stood squarely behind him because he was one of the chaps.
    This is how it appears to be. I find it strange that you can't reasonably discuss these things on a discussion forum.

    There also seems to be an assumption that everyone knows 11erv "John" and Andrew Shear are vintage Rolex experts and therefore their sale/ownership of the watch commands the utmost respect/substantial pricing. As with all purchases, I think potential buyers need to look closely at the watch they're interested in versus the market and make their own decision. Blind trust is certainly not the way to go with vintage Rolex purchases, as John Mayer discovered...

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by newsboy View Post
    It took about me 6 months or so to find mine.
    Glad I waited though, full set, original receipt the full works


    May I ask if everything is original (to your knowledge) or if the case, dial and hands have been redone?
    I've never seen a case that perfect on a Rolex sub/SD before. I was always told to stay away from "Hong Kong patina". How is it possible to see if the dial and hands like yours are genuine patina or repaint? Is it possible to see the difference in regular pictures?

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by yonsson View Post
    May I ask if everything is original (to your knowledge) or if the case, dial and hands have been redone?
    I've never seen a case that perfect on a Rolex sub/SD before. I was always told to stay away from "Hong Kong patina". How is it possible to see if the dial and hands like yours are genuine patina or repaint? Is it possible to see the difference in regular pictures?
    I bought from a reputable UK seller and its from the Uk not HK

  30. #80
    If you're stressed about getting a vintage Rolex, or sleep better knowing you have the 'right' Rolex, there are much more important things for you to worry about in your lives than your watch!

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Can I respectfully suggest that double standards or even hypocrisy is creeping in here. Not so long ago there was a thread about a dealer on the South Coast selling a watch with the insignia of a Special Forces unit on it. The watch was heavilly criticised and the engraving was dismissed as a amateurish, the price was described as ridiculas and the poor seller even took a personal beating in some of the postings.

    Are we saying that for any watch advertised outside of TZ it is open season, but had the same guy posted that watch on SC everyone would have stood squarely behind him because he was one of the chaps.
    That watch was not on SC so to me it doesnt apply, as has already been said if a watch on SC is not as it is claimed to be then I would have no problem posting my concerns, I have seen this happen on a number of occasions, but the price should be discussed privately.
    To give you an example, I rarely sell a watch but last year I offered an immaculate 2 year old GMTc for 4300 on SC, I received a pm from somebody that one had recently sold for 4000 and I may have overpriced it, I replied that I had seen that one it was 2 years older and required a full polish. I was'nt annoyed at the contact in fact I was quite pleased that somebody would go to the trouble to try and help even though it was a little misguided. At the end of the day like any forum it is built on trust and the members should be helping each other, or have I got it totally wrong again!!

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corporalsparrow View Post
    If you're stressed about getting a vintage Rolex, or sleep better knowing you have the 'right' Rolex, there are much more important things for you to worry about in your lives than your watch!
    Not so sure about that. I have turned being a boring old fart into an art form !!
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 7th September 2015 at 20:08.

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    That watch was not on SC so to me it doesnt apply, as has already been said if a watch on SC is not as it is claimed to be then I would have no problem posting my concerns, I have seen this happen on a number of occasions, but the price should be discussed privately.
    To give you an example, I rarely sell a watch but last year I offered an immaculate 2 year old GMTc for 4300 on SC, I received a pm from somebody that one had recently sold for 4000 and I may have overpriced it, I replied that I had seen that one it was 2 years older and required a full polish. I was'nt annoyed at the contact in fact I was quite pleased that somebody would go to the trouble to try and help even though it was a little misguided. At the end of the day like any forum it is built on trust and the members should be helping each other, or have I got it totally wrong again!!
    Okay bob, you win, you have finally ground me down. I promise to be good and never question the price of an item on SC again - bad form, naughty boy, slapped wrist !!

    Hope this doesn't wind you up, but I don't like the colour of the tritium plots on the SC watches - they are just too dark for me. I like a nice creamy off white colour, but hey, we are all different.

    I genuinely hope these watches sell after this debate.

  34. #84
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    No, In the spirit of the forum lets call it a Draw, Im'e with you on patina, prefer creamy, I have a lovely sub gilt but the patina is very dark which puts me off slightly! But we can't all like the same things!

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    No, In the spirit of the forum lets call it a Draw, Im'e with you on patina, prefer creamy, I have a lovely sub gilt but the patina is very dark which puts me off slightly! But we can't all like the same things!
    You have probably seen this before, but might be interesting to anyone who has not - halfway down the page is a chart showing the patinas from white throught to very dark - brownish.

    http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/w...ub/redsub.html

    I like number two - light creamy.

  36. #86
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    OP: if you're really truly finding it stressful, I'd advise not going the vintage Rolex route. IMO

    You might end up always having nagging doubts about any number of elements of the watch you buy which could ruin the whole ownership experience.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomw2000 View Post
    OP: if you're really truly finding it stressful, I'd advise not going the vintage Rolex route. IMO

    You might end up always having nagging doubts about any number of elements of the watch you buy which could ruin the whole ownership experience.
    Don't worry I'm not going to have a breakdown. I have read this thread and there is some great tips. Even enjoyed the bickering.

  38. #88
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    Know how the OP feels. Been hunting an original full set 86 Fat Lady for what feels like forever with no luck. Needle in a haystack.

  39. #89
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    take your time, do your research, read all the posts in the vintage rolex forums and get a feel of what is wrong on some watches
    and what makes a right one - it will take years maybe but you'll be spotting a lemon from 10 yards away in the end
    and then you know it will pay off - unfortunately the market values will move along with you too.... but then again hopefully so will your salary, bonuses etc...

    if it was meant to be it will be

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by DB9yeti View Post
    He has had his SC status revoked by the boss for dealing AFAIK.
    Thanks.

  41. #91
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    The chase is supposed to be half the fun...why stress over it?

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