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Thread: Approaching suspected thieves?

  1. #1
    Master
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    Approaching suspected thieves?

    I've had my shop cased twice this week - once on Saturday and again today.
    Same two lads, obviously looking at security, glancing up at the cameras and sizing up the windows. I was out of the shop both times sadly (or luckily?), but from the CCTV it's pretty obvious they are up to no good.
    The last time this happened a week later it cost me 50k in diamonds - insured, of course, but it did my premiums no good.

    The police have said just to steer clear and call them if we spot the lads again, but to be honest I've told the police that if they come back for another look I'm going to make my presence known and tell them to clear off. They said it's a bad idea, but the cops were as much use as chocolate teapots last time - blaming poor town centre CCTV for not being able to track their escape route so drew an 'unsolvable' line underneath it within about 4 minutes.

    Surely unless they come back next time with balaclavas on and armed, they aren't going to want a confrontation. I'd much rather let them know we've clocked them looking, reported them to the police and sent them their pictures. Hopefully that would be enough to discourage them from making an attempt, they're bang to rights.

    I had a similar thing last year where some little chav eyed up our gold window then that night tried to get into the centre through a weak shutter. He failed, but 10am the next day he was back in our window taking photo's of it with his phone. I went out and told him very calmly that he could walk away in one piece or wait for the ambulance, who would collect him in parts-bags, then sent the CCTV to the local patrol, who recognised him and picked him up the same day.


    What's the general view anyway? I know the SP is to leave them to it and claim the insurance if the worst happens, but this is my livelihood we're talking about - it's not quite so easy to turn the other cheek.
    Last edited by kevkojak; 25th February 2015 at 20:59.

  2. #2
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    Take the most identifiable still from the footage, have it blown up to A1 and stick it in your wi dow without caption or explanation.

  3. #3
    Master dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaunidle View Post
    Take the most identifiable still from the footage, have it blown up to A1 and stick it in your wi dow without caption or explanation.
    Forgot what I was going to even say, this is nothing short of genius.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaunidle View Post
    Take the most identifiable still from the footage, have it blown up to A1 and stick it in your wi dow without caption or explanation.

    I like that a lot. Should prove a decent deterrent, if I can work out how to save the stills to my computer!

    Cheers.

  5. #5
    Grand Master gray's Avatar
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    Tell them your security monitoring company have noticed they've been in a few times (maybe even print out their image to show them). Is there anything particular they need help with to save them coming back another time?
    Gray

  6. #6
    Master vagabond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaunidle View Post
    Take the most identifiable still from the footage, have it blown up to A1 and stick it in your wi dow without caption or explanation.
    Believe it or not, I was going to suggest exactly the same thing - displayed somewhere prominently, so they don't miss it, should be warning enough.

  7. #7
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    The main thing has to be your and your staff's safety.

    I would be worried about annoying the wrong person. However frustrating the police are I would personally leave it to them!

  8. #8
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    If they think they've been bubbled, the chances are they'll get cold feet. They're not exactly subtle by the sound of it so hopefully not the brains of Britain.
    Either way, good luck with it.

  9. #9
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    When I had my shop, most thieves were drug addicts and there was no problem confronting them.
    Others however, were armed and my instruction to staff was to get out of the way and let them get on with it.

    I had some footage of an 18" blade about an inch from my fathers face. Very sobering!

    Increased insurance premiums are a small price to pay!

    There's no harm in letting them know that they have been noticed as long as it's safe to do so though.

  10. #10
    Master Mouse's Avatar
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    Stuff like this makes me seethe.

    You're far more calm and rational than me. I'd have been tempted to......well, best not go into what I'd have been tempted to do :-/

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave O'Sullivan View Post
    If they think they've been bubbled, the chances are they'll get cold feet. They're not exactly subtle by the sound of it so hopefully not the brains of Britain.
    Either way, good luck with it.
    That's good advice.

    Generally unless it's a drug dealer taxing, thieves do not want any kind of confrontation and obviously don't want to get caught. By letting them know you're onto them, hopefully should be enough to put them off, certainly from any kind of job during opening hours, as they'll work on the assumption that you know who they are and they'll be the first port of call come any investigation.

    Another idea, is if they come in again, treat them as genuine customers and offer them a drink. After they leave touch the containers as little as possible and put them safely in the fridge. Come any subsequent theft, hand the police the cups and give a statement positively identifying the men who drank from the cups as being the offenders - DNA from the saliva should give a 'bang on' ID. Sadly the rest would be in the hands of the CPS :(

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny8977 View Post
    That's good advice.

    Generally unless it's a drug dealer taxing, thieves do not want any kind of confrontation and obviously don't want to get caught. By letting them know you're onto them, hopefully should be enough to put them off, certainly from any kind of job during opening hours, as they'll work on the assumption that you know who they are and they'll be the first port of call come any investigation.

    Another idea, is if they come in again, treat them as genuine customers and offer them a drink. After they leave touch the containers as little as possible and put them safely in the fridge. Come any subsequent theft, hand the police the cups and give a statement positively identifying the men who drank from the cups as being the offenders - DNA from the saliva should give a 'bang on' ID. Sadly the rest would be in the hands of the CPS :(
    Epic first post,

    HI johnny8977, I am soundood pleased to meet you.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundood View Post
    Epic first post,

    HI johnny8977, I am soundood pleased to meet you.
    Cheers, thought I'd have to start somewhere and since I know diddly about watches........

  14. #14
    Master soundood's Avatar
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    KevKojak,

    it might be wise to employ some security for the next few weeks, get a temp in from a 'local' company, usually these guys work the doors (clubs) too, and already know the scumbags, let them see the CCTV and act on it when they see them outside or entering the shop.

    there is only one type of target in this world for criminals, and that's an easy one, I am surprised you don't just have security after the last robbery, it would do your premiums a bit of good too.

    word would have got out about the 50,000 and no charges, so your an 'easy target' now,

    another tactic my local jeweller uses is an retired Police Dog, a big Alsatian, lovely dog full of cuddles, but if anything kicks off she is a maniac.

  15. #15
    Just go right up to his face with a camera and take his picture, without saying a word, then go back inside.....
    He'll take the hint.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Just go right up to his face with a camera and take his picture, without saying a word, then go back inside.....
    He'll take the hint.

    That could result in Kev getting chinned.

    Someone going in a angry smack heads face and taking a pic could end up in tears.
    Instagram- ramsdenswhitby
    Facebook- Ramsdens Whitby

  17. #17
    Craftsman Diesel76's Avatar
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    I think the picture idea is a cracker. Failing that employ a security guard until they get board of looking? It isn't easy I am afraid. Good luck sir.

  18. #18
    Master lysanderxiii's Avatar
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    Next time you see them, tell them they won a "474th customer of the year prize" and you need good headshot photos (full face left and right side view) of them for the advertisements. If they stick around and allow the pictures to be taken, give them a 10 off the next 5000 or more purchase coupon.

    Oh, and you'll need the name(s) and addresses (off valid ID cards), so you can mail them the prize.
    Last edited by lysanderxiii; 26th February 2015 at 00:13.

  19. #19
    Master Wolfie's Avatar
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    Get yourself down to Blackpool sea front and work on 'The Crane".... Simply pull that bad boy move out when you next see them?



    Failing that... Remember you have a wife and beautiful little daughter and don't do anything daft !!!!

    Ben

  20. #20
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundood View Post
    KevKojak,

    it might be wise to employ some security for the next few weeks, get a temp in from a 'local' company, usually these guys work the doors (clubs) too, and already know the scumbags, let them see the CCTV and act on it when they see them outside or entering the shop.

    there is only one type of target in this world for criminals, and that's an easy one, I am surprised you don't just have security after the last robbery, it would do your premiums a bit of good too.

    word would have got out about the 50,000 and no charges, so your an 'easy target' now,

    another tactic my local jeweller uses is an retired Police Dog, a big Alsatian, lovely dog full of cuddles, but if anything kicks off she is a maniac.

    The last one was kept right under wraps - not even the local papers got any info, it was a professional job, definitely no-one like these two jokers.

    I've got a lad working here who's an ex mixed martial arts instructor so he's working today, tomorrow and all weekend.

    I've done the photo thing anyway. Not great images, but they do look an odd match, so as a pair I reckon someone will recognise them.

  21. #21
    Master
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    If it had been a couple of years ago I could have loaned my little friend to you. Stopped my Scoob being stolen and the wife being attacked. He liked to play.


  22. #22
    Craftsman dom_'s Avatar
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    I worked in lots of jewellers over the years.

    Best way seemed to be the first visit, they always stand out a mile. Go straight up to them and treat them like a customer, but be a bit too polite and ott, so they know you know who they really are.
    Puts most off.

    Ideally though your shop security should put them off on its own when they first visited. If they have kept coming back then they think they can rob you.

    Have you got fog bandit/smokecloak? If not I would, they work very very well and put people off when they see it.

    One jewellers I worked for was done 3 times in a row before the police got serious. First time was hammers, second time was guns and they used flares to set fire to the office area to distract the staff, third time was guns again. But the owner had been to the police and given them hell. So they had a plan to close off the single road leaving town and they caught them.
    After that they re did the shop to have door buzzer, fog bandit and separate closed areas to access the windows. So you couldn't just run in and smash the inside of the window you had to smash in a security door first. Never been touched since and the value of goods has gone up since then too.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaunidle View Post
    Take the most identifiable still from the footage, have it blown up to A1 and stick it in your wi dow without caption or explanation.
    This, but put a note next to the picture stating "smile you are NOW on camera" and an arrow pointing to a visible video camera in the window.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dom_ View Post
    I worked in lots of jewellers over the years.

    Best way seemed to be the first visit, they always stand out a mile. Go straight up to them and treat them like a customer, but be a bit too polite and ott, so they know you know who they really are.
    Puts most off.

    Ideally though your shop security should put them off on its own when they first visited. If they have kept coming back then they think they can rob you.

    Have you got fog bandit/smokecloak? If not I would, they work very very well and put people off when they see it.

    One jewellers I worked for was done 3 times in a row before the police got serious. First time was hammers, second time was guns and they used flares to set fire to the office area to distract the staff, third time was guns again. But the owner had been to the police and given them hell. So they had a plan to close off the single road leaving town and they caught them.
    After that they re did the shop to have door buzzer, fog bandit and separate closed areas to access the windows. So you couldn't just run in and smash the inside of the window you had to smash in a security door first. Never been touched since and the value of goods has gone up since then too.
    Bell on the door, mag-lock on the door, smart-water sprinkler system, dual alarms on independent circuits and bandit-glass.

    I looked at smoke cloak but after speaking to a few people who'd been subject to robbery with that fitted we went with smart-water instead.
    The smoke not only disorients thieves, it does the same with the staff. I'd rather be able to see what's going on and act accordingly.
    Smart Water is just DNA coded water which comes out of a sprinkler system - it shows up under UV light (ports, airports, police station) and doesn't come off skin or out of clothes for months! It also has a 100% conviction rate and stands as inadmissible evidence in court.

    The danger is them coming through the window with hammers like last time, it took 4 or 5 whacks with a lump hammer to make a hole big enough to reach through but didn't take long. Inside the shop I think we have enough deterrents, but we can't do a damn thing about them attacking from outside.

  25. #25
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Lots of jewelers here have a double door. First door is closed. You need to ring. When the door opens, you're in a glass 'hall' waiting for the first door to close and then waiting for the second one to open. In the mean time, you can see yourself on a monitor! The waiting area has a few coloured strips on the glass, making it easier for the police to assess your height as well. Off course, the shop owner can decide to keep both doors closed, technically locking in the person who wants to enter the shop.

    Important here is the fact that the guys who want to come in are already recorded somewhere - and not on a 'in house' hard disk!

    A highend watch store in The Hague only displays one watch of each brand they have in store, thus limiting the loss whe robbed through the window. The shop window is very 'artistically' done. And the shop owner invites makes clear that he stores more than he's willing to display 'for obvious reasons.'

    Menno

  26. #26
    Would it be feasible to extend the Smart Water to the soffit above the window so in the event of anyone trying to put the window in they also get marked?

  27. #27
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    Why not get artistic with the window display - get a few snakes in the window as part of the display. Makes the Neds much less inclined to be reaching in to grab stuff. Would also be a bit of a draw for the punters!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh B View Post
    Why not get artistic with the window display - get a few snakes in the window as part of the display. Makes the Neds much less inclined to be reaching in to grab stuff. Would also be a bit of a draw for the punters!
    I'd ask to see something out the display just to watch the staff trying to get it without becoming snake fodder.

  29. #29
    A few years ago in a high end jewellers, a couple of lads walked in and the lady that was serving me said 'excuse me' and disappeared as all the staff gathered to assist these two lads. They suddenly became shy and left. The lady returned and apologised, explaining their manner and not their dress made them stand out for the wrong reasons.

    It is a wonder that displays do not hold 'dummy' models such as for mobile telephones to prevent theft from displays.

    Actually thinking about it, I think the Rolex watches at Basel are dummy watches?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by prexelor View Post
    A few years ago in a high end jewellers, a couple of lads walked in and the lady that was serving me said 'excuse me' and disappeared as all the staff gathered to assist these two lads. They suddenly became shy and left. The lady returned and apologised, explaining their manner and not their dress made them stand out for the wrong reasons.

    It is a wonder that displays do not hold 'dummy' models such as for mobile telephones to prevent theft from displays.

    Actually thinking about it, I think the Rolex watches at Basel are dummy watches?
    I went to a do at Rolex that previewed all the new models. They were basically cases. No movements in them. I was told it was the same watches from Basel.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaunidle View Post
    Take the most identifiable still from the footage, have it blown up to A1 and stick it in your wi dow without caption or explanation.
    Seems like a good idea until your called out at 0300hrs for your window being tanned and your wondering why the insurance won't pay out - as is their want - given you allegedly provoked the damage.

    Be careful KevK.

    there are more sensible ideas give here. Plod are useless cos they're hamstrung!!

    Jim

  32. #32
    Craftsman Integrale's Avatar
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    Beware of undercover security

    I went into a local second hand place a few weeks ago to look at some Rolex. Cold day, had a hat on, looked scruffy as going to the gym....

    Tried on a couple of watches, they were scruffier than I was, and left saying I'd keep a look in when I was passing if anything of interest turned up. As I was leaving, heavily built type came across from the opposite side of the arcade and "thanked" me for visiting...

    I won't be back! Not sure what reception you'd get if you asked for a refund??

  33. #33
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    Well, this has taken a turn.

    I posted the CCTV pic's on facebook and had an anonymous tip-off about one of the scruffs.
    Turns out he's local - we even share a friend on facebook (degrees of separation and all that). I will be having words.

  34. #34
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    Hope it gets sorted quickly and quietly Kev. As I mentioned above, once they have an idea you're onto them, I imagine they won't bother going through with anything.

    P.S. might be time to review your Facebook friends eh? ;)

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