I have not really planned this post, but it was inspired by reading through the brand perception thread on here...
This is supposed to be about watches, but I can also relate it to cars. I bought my first new car about 10 years ago and since then, I have only bought new. I have to say, I felt completely different about my first new car from the way I had felt about any previous car. The first new car was a Honda Jazz and before that I had owned a Volvo 740, a couple of VW Golfs, a couple of Minis, a couple of Honda Civics, a Peugeot 305 etc.
I really felt with the Jazz that I was a customer of Honda, whereas with the other cars, I just felt I had the car (if that makes any sense)
I would love to own a Mercedes E class or CLS, but they are way out of my price range new and I honestly think I am happier with a lesser brand bought brand new than I could ever be with a second hand Merc.
Returning to watches, my most expensive watch is my 50th birthday present from my wife which is a Rado Centrix Automatic bought new from a shop. I have a few Russian and Chinese watches bought over the internet and some vintage watches (Omega and Longines). I like all my watches, but I definitely feel different about the Rado.
The thing is, the Rado was not that expensive compared to what many spend here and I could easily spend a lot more than the £800 it cost on a second hand Rolex or Omega or whatever, but I don't think I would have the same feeling about owning those if I bought them second hand. Maybe thats why box and papers are so important to some people - they help to simulate the feeling of being bought from a shop...
Just a few random thoughts.... what do you think?
Agree 100%. A watch, car or anything bought new feels almost on another level compared to anything 2nd hand. I think with 2nd hand you may be prepared to compromise on condition, colour, specs etc. I used to buy, wear and flip g shocks weekly!! I bought one new and haven't had any others since.
My take on things are different, yes of course some things have to be new..
So, would you say no to a Rolex 5513 because it's second hand?
No to a Mcqueen Explorer?
No to a Ferrari F40?
No to a Enzo?
No to a Ducati 996?
I guess everybody's different, that's what makes the world go 'round. I always buy with an eye towards resale value, because I understand my behavioral tendencies with regard to watches. So, I always buy used. Let someone else absorb that depreciation hit.
There are some watches that I have now that I can't imagine ever selling, so arguably resale is not a factor on those watches. Would I appreciate them more had I bought them new from a shop? The point is moot. Some, like the Doxa 300T and the 14060M, are out of production so couldn't have been bought new. The SBDX001 is Japanese domestic market only, so virtually has to be bought second hand unless you buy online from a web dealer and I'm not sure how much wow factor you can get from a web dealer purchase. It comes through the mail, just like a second hand purchase, and it's really only new until you put it on and wear it. I saved $1400 off the new price on the SBDX001 by buying used. It would take an awful lot of warm fuzzy feelings to offset the positive shot my bank account got out of that.
Your Rado has emotional/romantic/milestone ties .. watches new or second hand without meaning carry no weight. I have a couple of vintage watches that are worth $$$$ less than new but feel like they are worth the $$$$ of new.
I'm sure if your wife had a child in an old used car you bought you'd keep it as a museum piece over a new Porsche. The object has more meaning if it has a significance.
Good point. I did consider lying in my OP because I realised that this weakened my point, but I am just too honest!Originally Posted by jk103
Trying to be objective, it is not only the emotional/romantic/milestone ties that make the Rado special, but I do agree that it would look like that...
I would say no to all those because they are too expensive for me at the moment!
I admit that they are all desirable and if I could afford them, I would probably buy some of those things, but...
I would also consider something brand new at a similar price point and that could make the decision much harder...
I think if you can find exactly what you want and do your research buying used is far better than new. I picked up a 1 year old Audi a few months back with exactly the spec I wanted but a saving on the original cost of just over £9500 the car was from an Audi main dealer with very little mileage. I have also purchased watches that were a year or two old and saved 30+% of the original cost. A few years back I purchased a brand new car and lost around 40% of its original cost within 2 years and 10.000 miles, around £18000 so an expensive lesson, never again.
Agree completely and how many times do we say that "this is a keeper..." only to subsequently flip it. I gave up the new ideal long ago and always buy used now for cars / bikes / watches.
Interesting thoughts. I have one keeper, it was bought used and the cheapest watch in my box. It is a keeper as it was bought and worn for my wedding day, so the sentimentality it what is important, not the purchase experience or the box and papers.
If I were to buy a new watch or a new car, I would feel like I;d been ripped off. The perception of 'new', the dealer experience etc holds no interest for me at all.
Take two of my toys; DB9 and a JLC Duometre for examples. Aston, new, was £120k. I paid £50k and it holds most of that value still, Duo is £32k new and I paid £17k. First point is I couldn't have afforded either of them new, second point stands that I would feel royally ripped off at new prices. I feel like I am getting bang for my buck with pre-owned.
New shoes and tactical underpants; sure. New watch... nah.
With heavily discounted new watches available from the Grey Dealers (even the well known ones), the price of a new watch vs a nearly new watch in a good condition is getting very thin. It's a different case if you are after an older model..
Buying new also ensures that you have the warranty period.. not sure how useful it is.. Questionable..
Yes I'd say no
No 5513, yes 5512 (Chronometer rated)
No McQueen Explorer, as it's an urban legend he never worn one.
No F40, just not my thing
No Enzo, see above
No 996, can't ride a bike
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes.
That's yes to each of them not yes, I'd say no!
I completely agree that there is a different connection between a new item and a used item, however I would argue that for many the connection with a used item can be even stronger in some circumstances.
I'm a VERY thorough person when it comes to anything I buy, whether it's a microwave, a lawnmower or a mobile phone. I like to do my research and be certain that I'm buying the right item for the right reasons at the right price. But I am especially thorough and picky when it comes to buying used cars and watches, the two examples offered by the OP. I bought my current car when it was 5 years old (I've now had it a further 3) and it took me several months to source. I didn't settle for any other car until the one came up that was the exact right engine, trim, colour, wheels, mileage, service history, stereo, seats, headlights etc etc. As a result, I've achieved my *perfect* car, at 40% of the original price, and the only time I ever think about the fact I didn't order it new is when I see the previous owners address on the V5.
Similarly, early last year I bought a 1968 Omega Chronostop Driver. The perfect age, condition, dial, price etc - it again took me several months to track down, but that was part of the process. I was building my relationship with the watch for months before I'd even laid eyes on it.
At the moment I'm in the early stages of building towards a moonwatch purchase. I'm doing all the research that I'm sure many of you have done with this watch around the various calibers, bracelets, hands, crystals, bezels etc and while I don't yet know what I'm going to plump for, I'm already getting attached to it! (And boy doesn't my wife know it)
If I popped to an Omega AD tomorrow and bought the current reference, I'm certain I would get that feeling you speak of about being a brand customer and I would definitely have a great watch, but my relationship with the item wouldn't be the same for quite some time.
I'm not sure how I feel about buying a used watch, but my next purchase will most likely be used, as I really want a pepsi gmt, and i'm not buying a white gold one!
I've had used and new cars and used and new watches.
There are specific pleasures to both, but mostly I've bought used watches.
Why? Well, firstly as I like a number of vintage watches. My interest in 'quality' watches was spurred by a chance sighting of a '60s Breitling Cosmonaute. Once I started researching I found they made new ones, but my real interest was in one JUST like that I'd seen, so buying a new one wasn't an option.
More recently, I've found that I can obtain watches (much like cars) for a fraction of their new price if I'm prepared to accept I'n not the first owner. This, for me, is a small (non-existent?) price to pay. I wouldn't pay the full price for a Ana-Digital Breitling new, but I was happy to pay the asking price for an excellent condition Breitling B-1. Similarly with an Omega Speedmaster Professional.
For me, the price of new watches is too much for the value I perceive in them (much the same is true of cars I find), but my interest is such that I'm more than happy to pay a much reduced price to own something more interesting than buying a cheaper new option.
M
Amen. Same goes for my hifi.
I can understand the feeling.
If you buy a product new, it’s a bit like building a relationship. The relationship is between you and the manufacturer. Your money = Their Profit
When you buy 2nd hand, there’s no direct link to the manufacturer because you did not contribute to their profit directly.(Except servicing maybe)
All my watches are bought new so far. But, I don’t think I will ever do so. New watch price gone completely insane.
I do not want to be part/source of multi billion profit making luxury corporations any more. I gave enough money to them already.
I agree with the OP I that I like new and the goods are, or should be, as good as it gets and it feels that way. There is always a compromise with second hand goods.
I think the car analogy is good in some respects but:
A new car will pick up dings and knocks from car parks & on street parking, or other peoples carelessness (*). In general a watch will most likely be damaged by your own lack of care.
Cars have license plates and so for a while are obviously new. This appeals to some buyers. A well cared for watch can be less obviously used.
(*) I have on street parking and drive less than 10K a year, so will probably never buy a new car.
i can understand but not share the OP's logic.
i've only ever bought one new car and after 2 years the residual value had been obliterated by my mileage and it really irritated me, i've bought a few new watches but only ever paid full price for 2 (the rest were either discounted or duty free).
it's quite nice having the dealership experience but every time i get a cup of coffee in Porsche i think it's cost me around £1,000 in depreciation! whereas with the pre-owned i have access to the same dealer service but don't have to take the initial hit which hopefully someone wealthier than me has been happy to do so.
watches are the same now, as the cost goes up i'm less bothered about the nice chaps in the jewellers being polite and offering a glass of something whilst is browse their offering.
I'm currently looking at a watch that will be a saving of £10,000 below the current list and i really can't see any justification or value in taking the hit myself. I also lease a car for work now as new is nice but on a depreciating asset, lease or pre-owned is my mantra.
I am the same as others on here and whilst I could afford to buy new I will buy where I see the value which can be used, lightly used etc.
It is an interesting point you make about feeling a "customer of the brand" when you buy new and I do see that however with the car you have service etc. and so I feel a customer of Audi as much as the (non-Audi) garage I bought the car from.
Back to watches I can see that with a shop you may feel only a customer of the shop (or if bought privately not at all) but with boutiques I feel a customer of the brand. The JLC boutique has changed straps etc. for me on my 2nd hand JLC watches & Hublot have given me exemplary service throughout treating me as not only a current customer but also a potential future customer with no concerns over the original purchase method.
Exactly how I think.
I couldn't care less about the "experience" etc. when buying watches, cars, and similar things. If what I want is available second hand and in a condition that meets my expectations, I would never buy it new. And actually, buying a mint second hand watch, car, or whatever at a good price, will always make me feel a little luckier than those who bought the same thing new.
I understand the feeling of buying new from a store and creating a relationship with the AD. I used to buy new, but only because prices were not as high and large discounts were often given (ie. almost 50% off IWC, JLC, PP, etc). But because of that, most people around me went with Rolex due to the high residuals. Many would have the mentality "why buy a PP or IWC for 50% when I can get a day-date that will keep better value instead?"
Of course, people were also less informed about horology back then.
I mostly buy used now, partly on the savings and partly because my tastes have turned to vintage/discontinued models.
A friend of mine has been buying brand new cars for a long time. Every 2 years. All run of the mill stuff. But as soon as I bought a used Bmw M3 he was all over this.. he couldn't understand. He looked at the time that he was having a heart attack. Meaning all those cogs were going round and round in his head.
In my opinion, buying intelligently can go a long way.
Agree 100%. Providing it's available new, I would always go for new rather than second hand. You never really know the history of a second hand item.
Particularly with cars, I would alway buy new even if it meant buying a lesser model or mark. Modern cars have factory option lists a mile long and your selections can change the look, feel and performance of a car completly, why on earth would you want to buy someone else's spec?
Hmmm, Interesting.
Before the collecting bug struck I'd always had an interest in watches as pretty things for men to own and I well remember how good I felt buying my first mechanical watch. It was a Breitling. The "new" buying experience has certainly changed a lot since those days. I expect to get a good coffee as a minimum to take my time, that the shop staff know me or at least remember me. As to the ownership experience thing, I like being the first owner of a watch (or a car come to that). Assuming it's a new watch if you see what I mean.
Interest in watches has brought second hand watches into the collection and the special ones are the vintage ones rather than the contemporary ones.
I've also bought new from Eddie and this brings a different feeling altogether. The Smiths Everest is one of my favourite watches. I love the simplicity of the watch and the fact that it's different. It's not from a shopping mall and it's designed to have a resonance with the past. Of course the great customer service you get helps to cement the deal.
So in my collection I have six bought new, two contemporary bought 2nd hand, 4 vintage of which one is an heirloom and 3 bought 2nd hand. The difference in value between the cheapest and the mot valuable is about x20. It does not affect in any way how I feel about them. The most loved is the one I inherited and of those I bought the 2 Smiths Everest are probably my favourite (an original Smith and Eddies re-imagined offering). The least loved are probably the two ETA 7750 based watches in the collection. Had I have looked at either of these in a shop I would not have bought them. The feel of the 7750 through the crown and pushers has a lot to do with that though.
Last edited by aldfort; 12th February 2015 at 17:33.
Thanks for all the comments - a real mix of opinions.
One extra thing I should mention is that I have lived in Bangkok for the last 16 years and the 2nd hand car market is completely different from the UK one. Cars depreciate much slower and certain popular brands hold their value incredibly well. Buying a new Honda or Toyota manufactured in Thailand means you lose very little in the first few years compared with UK.
Couldn't agree more. Been down the brand AM route, and won't buy anything premium new again. Wait a few years and get two, of anything (watches, cars, boats etc). With the change from the Aston you could buy all the other toys you want, or a new one every week!
I absolutely hate going in to an AD and trying stuff on. The whole experience annoys the pi55 out of me – having to deal with people who know nothing about the product they're displaying, having to sit in uncomfortable heat under harsh spotlighting, being watched the whole time in case you make a run for it. It's making me irritated just thinking about it.
Same with new cars. Salesmen who know nothing, trying to persuade you to take up options and products they know you won't buy, and the tiresome ritual of having to say "No, I just want …" about 100 times before the message sinks in. And then, have they even taken the order down correctly?
And then, you drive away your new car, or walk out of the store with your brand new watch, knowing that you've just kissed goodbye to at least 30% of what you just paid. That hurts.
So as you might have guessed, it's used for me every time
In fact, I'm looking for a new used car at the moment if anyone has any suggestions for a decent family estate that won't bore me to tears to drive
Realistically you could list your options on the fingers of one hand. Since you need a family estate boring is pretty much going to come as standard in all other cases.
In fact, I'm looking for a new used car at the moment if anyone has any suggestions for a decent family estate that won't bore me to tears to drive
BMW 5 something big?
Skoda Octavia vRS?
Ford Mondeo ST of some ilk (or a Focus perhaps)?
Audi RS4? Do they do an S6 Avant?
Not many are there...?
M
See the list below
Considered all the above, with the exception of RS4 (too pricey for me and too tempting to drive like I stole it, forgetting my wife and two kids are in the car with me
The vRS is current front runner, with massive boot and good driveability, but nothing near me. The other is the A4 2.0T FSI.
Anyway, back on topic …
I always buy used, whether it's watches or cars. I`ve had new ones (of both) and the 'newness' soon wears off, it's a vastly overrated 'warm feeling' in my opinion.
However, if a good discount can be haggled on a watch that keeps it's value well, the advantages of buying used diminish. Buying new also gives you the choice of the exact version you want.
Paul
Ive only ever bought one car new (in the mid 80's) and used doesnt bother me. However they dont really interest me that much and I tend to consider them essential but disposable items.
More personal items such as a watch I prefer to buy new. I like the thought that it hasn't been owned by anyone else - having said that Ive owned some used ones that I have connected quite well with.
I have a number of musical instruments - all bought new. Cant stand the thought of ones that have pre-owned. Have had a few in the past and they just didn't feel right.
All quite illogical really............
If i have money and decide i want a watch then i enjoy wandering around watch shops seeing what i like and if the deal is right i will buy new
If it is a planned purchase with lots of research whittled down to one i will happily find a good used example (unless the difference in price is marginal)
Just goes to show that it is the search/chase that appeals, with cars i enjoy having company cars as they are new and don't cost the earth :)
If no one bought new there would be no second hand.
I recently bought my first new car since 1981
If no one bought new there would be no second hand. I have bought both in watches and recently my first new car since 1981. It depends on what is available in the specs I want.
How heartening it has been to have a discussion with marked differences of opinion, yet no aggression or name calling.
There is no right or wrong answer to this question, but people come to different conclusions due to their own preferences and experience.
Vive la difference!
Did I see someone wrote about the definition of new that is just the first second that you put it one...it has become used already in the next second.
Furthermore, even the AD wouldn't guarantee that the NEW item has never been tried out on anyone's wrist, thought leather band is more obvious to note for.
If someone enjoys that minty freshness of ex-factory smell, particularly that comes with electronics products..then it would sure worth that extra 50% premium over used.
On the other hand, I share the same feeling with few friends that we tend to keep the new intact in the box but wear all used without second thought. So if we really want to wear a watch, we always go for x-hand's.
Last edited by seikomatic; 13th February 2015 at 04:27.
@Seikomatic.. I totally agree to your last point that we might end up wearing it more if it was bought used.. You tend to baby it more if it was bought new..
If you know what you want to buy and know that once you buy it you will keep it, then buy new. I have my car for 11 years and my bike for 7 both bought new and I know how every single scratch was made and I have a lot of stories to tell.
Since April 2013, when i first started looking seriously into watches, I bought 2 used and 7 new. I am very content with my watch purchases (new and used) and especially happy for getting 2 "like new" watches for a great second hand price. And I'm not planning on flipping anything, at least not for the near future.
I believe that if you are patient enough to look around you can get great deals on second hand watches (bikes,cars etc) and save alot of money on the high end purchases.
New = same item is now worth 15 - 30 per cent less if I decide to sell it.
This is quite true - I have watches that are still like new, and I've either worn once or twice, or even never worn - but the used items I buy - I wear! Strange, as their value has nothing to do with it. I doubt i'd do that with a car though ;)
I've bought a lot of watches new, and a lot of Rolex at full RRP - but not for years, and mostly only buy new if I can get a discount that makes it worth while. I was surprised at the deals that can be achieved on some new cars though - sometimes better than buying a 6-12 month old example from a dealer!
It's just a matter of time...
I do get the buy new and don't wear it thing, so I tend to buy secondhand, some have never been worn but come at a discount, then I think twice wether I should wear or not.
I do like tinkering, strap changing trying on then putting back in the box, but I like to wear at least one different watch weekdays and another weekends. Even in rotation I find I wear some less and less, but still desire something new I've seen, so as the collection grows some have to go, even some I really like
If its something i wish to keep i will try to buy new, otherwise used on something that's just an itch.
I wish i hadn't listened to my misses on my last car purchase
Quite often I like the look of a watch from a specific period, for example, 1920s Art Deco, WWII military watches or a 60s Omega Seamaster, etc. This often means having to buy used. I don't mind as long as I get what I want. I prefer a 1950s IWC Mark II than a 2015 IWC Mark XV which to me is just trying to ladder a "branding" of an iconic watch. Prefer a 60's Speedy than the latest "moon watch".
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