Who makes their own watch cases?

[watchstudent]

A lot gets talked about the movements but not the cases, after a quick search on google can't find much.

I know Rolex make all their own (does that mean all Tudors are made in house too?).
IWC as well I think. Chopard? Do other brands like JLC, GO?

Obviously not asking anyone to write down a list for me but am just curious if you know anything about brands making their own or something special about the way they make them.

[java]

GO never did , but have since bought the company who do.

[ralphy]

Are we sticking with Swiss only or world-wide?

R

[Josh B]

Seiko certainly do. I think they have the most complete control over the whole chain of components followed by Rolex.

[hhhh]

Girard Perregaux do.

[watchstudent]

So far

Seiko
Rolex (and Tudor??)
GP

I am right that IWC does also yeah?

[steppy]

Damasko and Archimede also make their own cases

[watchstudent]

Rolex (I am going to put Tudor...)
GP
IWC
Damasko
Archimede
Seiko

[SIB]

Seiko certainly do. I think they have the most complete control over the whole chain of components followed by Rolex.

With Seiko, I heard they actually "grow" their own crystals for their quartz movements and even make the oil for the lubrication

[coldwarkid]

Cut from Archimede's website

"The high-quality case is manufactured by ICKLER in Pforzheim"
I'm not sure if this applies to all their cases but this description was on the page for the first one I looked at.
I heard JLC make/have made cases for Patek so presumably they make their own. I have no solid proof on this, I read it on here somewhere.
What about Vostock?

[markrlondon]

Probably both Citizen and Casio, too.

[coldwarkid]

With Seiko, I heard they actually "grow" their own crystals for their quartz movements and even make the oil for the lubrication

Rolex develop and make their own oil as well.
I'd heard that about Seiko with the quartz but I'm not sure if it's just one of those things that gets repeated that often it becomes the truth. Like Bob Honess playing sax on Baker street.

[markrlondon]

Rolex develop and make their own oil as well.

I thought it was Seiko who owned their own oil refinery.

But I can't find any objective evidence of this; only recycled word of mouth.

[WatchesRmypassion]

I believe Sinn [ and some more German brands ] have their cases made by German company SUG [ Sächsische Uhrentechnologie Glashütte ].

[watchstudent]

Cut from Archemede's website

"The high-quality case is manufactured by ICKLER in Pforzheim"
I'm not sure if this applies to all their cases but this description was on the page for the first one I looked at.
I heard JLC make/have made cases for Patek so presumably they make their own. I have no solid proof on this, I read it on here somewhere.
What about Vostock?

Also interested in things like this wear the cases are made by specialist companies. i.e. SUGG and Sinn

[coldwarkid]

I thought it was Seiko who owned their own oil refinery.

But I can't find any objective evidence of this; only recycled world of mouth.

I think that's the problem with these sorts of questions.
If the information isn't made public by the manufacturer then I think often there is a myth that builds up and becomes "the truth".

[mostly_lurking]

I think JLC makes virtually everything themselves, or at least they used to.

[watchstudent]

I think this counts as JLC make their own - http://www.jaeger-lecoultre.com/GB/e...case-machining

Seiko
Rolex
IWC
GP
JLC
Damasko

Sinn
Archimede

[PJ S]

Rolex develop and make their own oil as well.
I'd heard that about Seiko with the quartz but I'm not sure if it's just one of those things that gets repeated that often it becomes the truth. Like Bob Honess playing sax on Baker street.

I'm not sure Rolex go as far as producing their own lubricants – that was what set Seiko apart from everyone else.
Regarding the quartz – a thread I started last year about a tour of the studios, from the WatchPro forum, showed an image of the area devoted to growing quartz crystals.
It's no myth.

I thought it was Seiko who owned their own oil refinery.

But I can't find any objective evidence of this; only recycled world of mouth.

Highly doubtful that they own a refinery, at least directly and solely for the purpose of making their own lubricants – they (as in the Group) might do, but I suspect they'll just buy in the raw ingredients their chemists need, and spend some money on R&D'ing new formulations, etc.


With regards to Tudor – you can remove them from the mix. The local AD surprised me with the revelation that most of their production is contracted out, with only final assembly done on Rolex's site.

[coldwarkid]

As evidence has been provided that Archimede don't make their own cases I think they can be scrubbed from the list.
I'm finding this really interesting. This could be a good thread.

[markrlondon]

With regards to Tudor – you can remove them from the mix. The local AD surprised me with the revelation that most of their production is contracted out, with only final assembly done on Rolex's site.

That surprises me greatly. I'd have thought it would be more cost effective for them to do it all genuinely in-house.

[coldwarkid]

With regards to Tudor – you can remove them from the mix. The local AD surprised me with the revelation that most of their production is contracted out, with only final assembly done on Rolex's site.

That's disappointing. Is your AD well informed?
I remember going into Prestons of Bolton ( a rolex AD) a couple of years ago to ask if it was true Tudor was planning to re-enter the UK market and the guy I spoke to had never heard of them. I suspect they are not that well informed on the watches they sell and the companies behind them.

[watchstudent]

With regards to Tudor – you can remove them from the mix. The local AD surprised me with the revelation that most of their production is contracted out, with only final assembly done on Rolex's site.

I did wonder whether that might be the case (sorry...). Whoever does make them does a great job from the few I have handled the machining really does feel Rolex quality to me.

[watchstudent]

As evidence has been provided that Archimede don't make their own cases I think they can be scrubbed from the list.
I'm finding this really interesting. This could be a good thread.

They are on the separate list along with Sinn who have "specialist" companies that make the cases for them. Anyone know where the Bremont cases are made? I know they talk of case manufacture coming to Britain and they are hardened in the UK, not sure about manufacture though.

In-house:
Seiko
Rolex
IWC
JLC
GP
Damasko

Specialist:
Sinn
Archimede

Anyone know about Zenith? I thought I read somewhere once that they help make some of their own metal

[Puntsdog]

How about AP? I ask because I dont know.

[PJ S]

That's disappointing. Is your AD well informed?

I presume so – took them at their word rather than argue since I can't prove it's false, no matter how much we'd all like to believe Rolex's hand is completely on the Tudors.

I did wonder whether that might be the case (sorry...). Whoever does make them does a great job from the few I have handled the machining really does feel Rolex quality to me.

I'd say if you've been awarded the contract by Rolex, you've shown that you have the ability to meet their standards and expectations, consistently, and production volume demands – possibly even prioritised.

[StuS]

Archimedie, Defakto and Limes are all part of Ickler. This is there site http://www.ickler.de/en/home/. I would say this is fairly in house?

[PJ S]

Forgot to mention previously, Seiko don't make all (if any) of the Grand Seiko cases – another company is contracted to do that.
Could be as simple as not having the space to house the necessary number of machines required to meet their volume requirements, or that they prefer to contract it out to support another business who has the decades of experience in machining the intricate designs Seiko require.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/gra...er-845969.html
https://www.jetro.go.jp/en/rebuildin...s_recovery.pdf

[744ER]

Breitling make their own cases. With soldered crown tubes, for better or worse.

[Thewatchbloke]

Roger W Smith does.

[quoll]

I certainly think Archimede qualify, as an Ickler watch brand.

I think Vostok cases are made in-house too.

There is a lot of debate and uncertainty about what actually constitutes making a case in house. Are the case blanks made (cast, stamped or whatever) in house, or just machined from bought-in blanks? And if it's machining, how much is in-house? All of it, or just finishing? An enormous amount of case blank production and machining is done in China, then shipped to other locations (like Europe) for either just assembly of finish machining and assembly. Not surprisingly, watch brands are not very open about it.

[aldfort]

I can see many watch makers may formulate and blend their own lubricants but actually make them? The only company I worked for that was that vertically integrated was Kodak back in the days when film was king.

[steppy]

Cut from Archimede's website

"The high-quality case is manufactured by ICKLER in Pforzheim"
I'm not sure if this applies to all their cases but this description was on the page for the first one I looked at.
I heard JLC make/have made cases for Patek so presumably they make their own. I have no solid proof on this, I read it on here somewhere.
What about Vostock?

Ickler own Archimede

[coldwarkid]

I didn't realise that but we're back to the debate of whether you'd consider tosspot as having in house movements. To me, if a company don't make a part themselves on their premises , with their staff, then it's been subbed out, no matter who gets the job.

[coldwarkid]

I didn't realise that but we're back to the debate of whether you'd consider tosspot as having in house movements. To me, if a company don't make a part themselves on their premises , with their staff, then it's been subbed out, no matter who gets the job.

Omg. That should say tissot. I can't believe predictive text on an iPhone would change it to that :-)

[Broussard]

Les Artisans Boîtiers / Sandoz Family Foundation make quite a few cases for Parmigiani and some of the other, higher-end brands. There have been hints (see here for example) that this list includes some surprising names. I'm sure there are many other similar case-makers in / around Geneva / La Chaux-de-Fonds / Biel / Neuchatel. Interestingly, I met a watchmaker on Saturday who took me through the process of case making on a 5-axis CNC. Really opens your eyes to the technical aspects of taking CAD drawings and then creating the programme for the computer to follow. Other independents to make their own cases include Roger Smith (as stated above - just check out his Instagram for some really rather lovely photos and videos of his watchmakers in action). Robert Loomes also makes his own cases.

[Huertecilla]

So far

Seiko
Rolex (and Tudor??)
GP

I am right that IWC does also yeah?

Vostok and there is Agat doing it old school with human operator.

[Josh B]

Omg. That should say tissot. I can't believe predictive text on an iPhone would change it to that :-)

iphone learns from your useage...

[Huertecilla]

Other independents to make their own cases include Roger Smith (as stated above - just check out his Instagram for some really rather lovely photos and videos of his watchmakers in action). Robert Loomes also makes his own cases.

Mike Cardew does too.

[PJ S]

Omg. That should say tissot. I can't believe predictive text on an iPhone would change it to that :-)

You could've just edited the post rather than make a new one.

[JP Chestnut]

With regards to Tudor – you can remove them from the mix. The local AD surprised me with the revelation that most of their production is contracted out, with only final assembly done on Rolex's site.

I wouldn't bet on that, unless your AD is remarkably less stupid (and better informed) than every AD I've ever talked to.

[Huertecilla]

I think Vostok cases are made in-house too.

There is a lot of debate and uncertainty about what actually constitutes making a case in house. Are the case blanks made (cast, stamped or whatever) in house, or just machined from bought-in blanks? And if it's machining, how much is in-house? All of it, or just finishing? An enormous amount of case blank production and machining is done in China, then shipped to other locations (like Europe) for either just assembly of finish machining and assembly. Not surprisingly, watch brands are not very open about it.

You are totally correct about Chinese steel production.

Also about Vostok. Ditto Agat.
Both get Russian manufactured steel. Agat certainly from Zlatoust itself, Vostok too probably.

[animalone]

I think this counts as JLC make their own - http://www.jaeger-lecoultre.com/GB/e...case-machining

Seiko
Rolex
IWC
GP
JLC
Damasko

Sinn
Archimede

Patek Philippe
Chanel make the ceramic for the J12

[744ER]

Patek Philippe
Chanel make the ceramic for the J12

Patek outsource at least some of their case production, if not most of it.

[Daddelvirks]

I certainly think Archimede qualify, as an Ickler watch brand.

I think Vostok cases are made in-house too.

There is a lot of debate and uncertainty about what actually constitutes making a case in house. Are the case blanks made (cast, stamped or whatever) in house, or just machined from bought-in blanks? And if it's machining, how much is in-house? All of it, or just finishing? An enormous amount of case blank production and machining is done in China, then shipped to other locations (like Europe) for either just assembly of finish machining and assembly. Not surprisingly, watch brands are not very open about it.

This also applies to Ickler :)

Daddel.

[Huertecilla]

This also applies to Ickler :)

Daddel.

Which brings us to Swiss Made in China with the Swiss Franc currency 'disaster' meaning lower cost of outsourcing for them.
With up to 75% outsourced still being Swiss Made, the currency 'debacle' has a very positive side too.

[rob-vicar]

That took longer than i thought, :)

[744ER]

Which brings us to Swiss Made in China with the Swiss Franc currency 'disaster' meaning lower cost of outsourcing for them.
With up to 75% outsourced still being Swiss Made, the currency 'debacle' has a very positive side too.

Except Ickler is German. http://www.ickler.de/en/watch-cases/

[PJ S]

I wouldn't bet on that, unless your AD is remarkably less stupid (and better informed) than every AD I've ever talked to.

Dunno, could be – I couldn't care less.
I buy a watch for its visual appeal and how well it's been put together – not where constituent parts are made, nor by whom.

Some might cite provenance, history, and all the other ballsocks, as being a significant part behind their reasoning to reject certain brands – well, more the fool them is all I can say, but to each their own.
Sure, some of those aspects give a nice warm, fuzzy feeling, but not at the expense of refusing to look at others who don't yet have those attributes.

[watchstudent]

Sure, so of those aspects give a nice warm, fuzzy feeling, but not at the expense of refusing to look at others who don't yet have those attributes.

We've already had this conversation over at CWL land but above a certain price I insist on warm fuzzy feeling being included.

Seiko
Rolex
IWC
JLC
GP
Damasko
Breitling
Vostok
Roger Smith

Specialist:
Sinn
Archimede