Reply With Quoteperhaps at the top end but unlikely with the massed produced stuff
I tried that test recently in the Omega boutique in Stratford, East London and it certainly felt like being in a bubble!Originally Posted by walkerwek1958
perhaps at the top end but unlikely with the massed produced stuff
[QUOTE=Saint-Just;3328848]First, a community of WIS is probably not the place to ask for advice in term of investment.
2 those who might know are unlikely to let you in on what can literally be considered 'free money'
3 those who answer will either speak out their fundament, will tell you what they've done recently but with no hindsight as to how it will pan out or at best based on their previous experience. Please note that the latter, whilst anchored in reality, puts the whole operation in the past which is not exactly useful if you're going to invest for the future.
So if you like your watches, set a budget for those that take your fancy, enjoy them and sell them when another one comes along. Short term immobilisation, you may win a bit, lose a bit, it doesn't matter as you'll have enjoyed your watch.
If on the other side you are truly looking for an investment, speak to a financial advisor/broker. Please note that their real expertise will also include some guess work, albeit more or less educated guesswork. Please also note that you'll pay them for their on going advice.[
[QUOTE=Matt1974;3329577]Do you drink a lot of real ale by any chance?
+1. Just my humble, with some observations over the last decade, the biggest chance of a return or at least getting your initial money back would seem to be in the sub 1000 quid bracket(outside of special cases like Rolex et al at the high mid to very high range*). Certainly with my buys down the years that has held true. If I had to sell off my humble collection next week, at actual current I'll get a buyer within a week market prices, I'd get at least what I paid for them and in a few cases get a definite return on the deal Hardly a living wage mind you. :)
*For me the high end Rolex and Patek market is a rarified one and doesn't bear much if any connection to the world most of us live in. Even there and looking at the various bubbles down the years in the vintage car market, it's a near template for a bubble, especially with the rare let's all go mad in Sotheby's Rolex market. Sure you'll never be able to buy a Milsub for a couple of hundred quid again, but when the bubble bursts there'll be a few folks who will have paid well over the odds.
Ha! - You Got Me.
At a push...Don't ask for financial advice from strangers on a watch forum...least of all mine!
Surely the question should be :-
"Is there such a thing as a surefire 'investment'?"
Well said.
Duly noted fella !Ha! - You Got Me.
At a push...Don't ask for financial advice from strangers on a watch forum...least of all mine!
[QUOTE=Matt1974;3329580]I'm not the one typing double
Sir, if it was real ale, he'd be typing quadruple.I'm not the one typing double
[QUOTE=Saint-Just;3329780]I'm glad I've helped you fill a little more time in your life. Always happy to help the needy.
I'm not the one typing double
I don't think this is quite correct as apart from a supermarket most shops are "destinations" and much of the footfall in any town can't afford the goods in the window - the shops are still there (or not) if sufficient numbers can to justify their costs.
I look at is as some here seem to do - if you buy carefully you can probably minimise the damage on the way out but if writing the lot of is a problem then you should keep your money in the building society,
Speaking of needy, you might be needy'g to learn the quote system on a forum. Then write something sensible, or funny. Then you will have filled a little more time in the forum's life
Try it, you might enjoy it.
This is my 'Investment Strategy':
1. Due Diligence. Do lots of research, you don't want to buy any crap.
2. Buy a watch you like. Your reasoning is entirely personal, but I suggest finding something which reflects your personality, lifestyle and outlook.
3. Wear it 5 days a week for 10 years. Don't worry about it, don't even think about it - just enjoy.
I'm banking on that being a sufficiently rewarding experience. The next 10 years might even provide a higher return.
Better idea save my spare change spend it on audacious things like watches and Mcdonalds keep my strategic funds for worthwhile investments like interest bearing accounts, silver, etc and the like for guaranteed returns. Oh yes and over here guns increase in value as well so even a better investment than watches.
Nothing in life is guaranteed but a Rolex Submariner (with papers) is about as close as it gets watch wise I think.
Or that Patek Graves watch that went for 15 million the other day. Imagine that will produce a decent yield!
This watch http://www.argos.co.uk/m/static/Prod...er/2533393.htm
I can guarantee the most you'll ever lose over a lifetime of ownership is £6.99
given my track record, I would say anything im selling, you should be buying!
I sold off a lot of my collection in haste to "rationalise" the obsession and now that I decide it doesn't need rationalising everything is 2 or 3 times the price I sold for
Give today's throwaway society if you kept it for long enough it might be one of the few that hasn't been slung and consequently worth something.
Perhaps...........
I think we're within a few years of peak watch prices.
The volume and price of mdi and high-end pieces has increased massively in recent years. If it carries on like this then there will be massive over supply in the years to come.
In 30 years there are going to be tens of millions more Rolexes in circulation, not to mention Omega, Breitling, Seiko and JLC. The market will probably be dominated by smart watches which will likely become ubiquitous faster than people think. You might think you are never going to wear a smart watch, but your kids will and their kids will. This change in technology with over supply of older models and changes in fashion will mean your submariner is unlikely to be the cash cow you expect.
The very high-end luxury market may remain buoyant for collectors of art, but the mid range pieces will not have the appeal it does now.
Through some kind of self-serving reasoning I figured a while back that I wouldn't incur any losses arising from depreciation if I kept everything!given my track record, I would say anything im selling, you should be buying!
I sold off a lot of my collection in haste to "rationalise" the obsession and now that I decide it doesn't need rationalising everything is 2 or 3 times the price I sold for
I've stopped trying to make any sense of all this now, put the expenditure behind me and make the best of what I already have, using enjoyment as my only currency - the jury is still out.
So far my best investment was the Mkii Kingston that I bought new around $1k and sold around $1,7k after wearing it for a year or so. I also bought another Kingston with 007 serial and a plankkit at $2,3k and sold under a year for $2,6 or so. It should be even higher now. Also my SMP 2254.50 which i bought LNIB for under £1k is now waaaay higher and it still has the red dot, which makes it pretty rare too. Overall I have definitely made some money on watches. Not much, but being on the positive side after about 5 years is a nice thing in the hobby industry ;)
Not that important to me. I guess I have a life. You just carry on keyboard warrior.
I can imagine it's a busy life, asking around how to get free money. Enjoy it!
I'll raise my pint to your continued success, on this forum and everywhere.
Yet another thread that's degenerated into a childish squabble......what the hell's gone wrong with this forum recently?
Nothing wrong with expressing forthright views, and disagreeing in a forthright manner, but ffs why does it always end up as a bloody squabble?
Lots of good points on this topic, but enough crap to spoil it too.
It's supposed to be a watch forum guys.....not the playground!
Paul
I have always thought Rolex Steel sports but only in the real long term
Usually Steel Sports Rolex as mentioned...the time has gone though somewhat.
If someone had bought a couple each of Steel Daytonas, LVs, SeaDwellers in 2008 and stuck them in a safe, selling them in 2013, they would have made ~ 50% return...and that's assuming they didn't buy at discount/tax-free in the first place.
Other than that, choice pieces from Patek qualify.
The last watch I saw what I believed was a genuine investment piece/a true collector's piece (not that I'm in the hobby for investing at all) was the Zenith Montre d'Aeronef Type 20 L.E from 2012. I kinda regret not being in the position to buy one at the time because the opportunity was there. That's a watch that will be worth a fair bit in the future.
I have owned and sold a significant number of Speedy Pros over the past few years (probably 15+) and each one has been a good 'investment' over my period of ownership. Likewise for MkII Speedmasters (10+). None were bought as investments though, and were only sold on when I had found a better example of a similar watch, or decided that having a number of similar watches didn't make any sense. Currently the only Speedmasters I have are a '68 Transitional and a very good MKII Racing and each would be very attractive at my original purchase price + 50%. However, unless I did not attempt to replace them I'm not going to gain anything. I have no doubt that my Omega Flightmaster 910, 2254.50 and '70s Heuer chronos would show a similar profit if I was to sell them.
I like to think that my entire current collection of watches has been financed via the 'profit' derived from earlier purchases & sales and therefore has not cost me anything. While this is the sort of 'man maths' that drives my wife nuts it can't be far from the truth. Considering that I have a collection worth a very conservative £15k and have had a huge amount of pleasure along the way I would affirm that watches can be a great investment.
Last edited by TomGW; 21st November 2014 at 01:38.
1970s Heuer Chronographs. Classic vintage style with modern sizing. Only going to get rarer and more desirable (IMO of couse).
Only when explaining your latest purchase to your wife.
Just like cars.
I dunno WC. Maybe. It's a strange place this WIS market. Take the Heuer Bund. It's got the name that usually attracts fans and buyers, it's 42mm so the "right" size, getting one that hasn't been "improved" is difficult enough and it's got full on military not officially sold to the public history on top of all that. It should be selling at a much higher price all things considered, yet it doesn't(1500-2000 will get you one) and outside of some wacky dealer prices, its price has remained pretty constant for nigh on the last decade. Yet the Heuer Monaco while a very nice watch was available to the public in large enough numbers, yet will get a significantly higher price mostly based on the fact that Steve McQueen wore one for a film/advertising campaign which was set up by Heuer(through a propmaster in his pocket). Omega were suggested but Steve was against the idea as he reckoned Omega would make hay with the association. Irony ain't in it.
Take Heuer themselves. Yes they had some very nice watches in their time, but for the most part they were a bought in movements manufacturer, their records were dire to non existent, in the 1970's there were periods where thy could barely give them away, particularly in the US and as far as innovation goes they wouldn't hold a candle to outfits like Longines, or Omega to name but two. Yet they regularly outprice both of them. If Heuer are arguably overvalued in the market, Longines go the other way. Huge history and heritage, lots of innovation, fantastic record keeping(for which they don't charge), yet their prices are still low though improving. In short it's a very nebulous market and trying to spot investment pieces within it is difficult if not impossible.
Any current Patek chronograph bought BNIB or LNIB from a greydealer should be a safe bet. Better ways to invest money out there though...
Most of the stratospheric rise in rolex prices over the last 10 years has been down to the increase of the CHF which has inevitably dragged up the price of second hand models.
I would look at limited run pateks and panerai but there are a lot better investments out there.
Not a sure fire investment,
But a firm £90 premium if you sell your send hand Precista 82 on Ebay for £470.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Precista-R...-/201219474041
Brand new from Eddie at £380 +postage.
Only thing I can think of is people don't realise it's the timefactors homage.
First post in a long time! From experience either PP or vintage sport Rolex hold their value well.Nevertheless as any market, this can change in the future as tastes evolve, market participants day and new ones have money to burn. For example the vintage car market. The darlings of the 80's where vehicles from the pre war era, whereas at the moment the big $ is on anything from the 60's+.
I've been thinking recently about getting a few more watches that might yield slight profit in the (distant) future and not a high roller by any means but I'd be interested in your thoughts on the following:
Rolex DSDweller
Heuer Bund
Tudor Black Bay
Omega SM300
I think these should be buyable for around £11k
I have a few other bits which I bought because I liked them and I dont think will ever be worth an awful lot more than I paid which is fine because I enjoy them. thoughts chaps?
I don't have any answers but it's an interesting thread.
From my point of view I buy what I can afford and enjoy it as much as possible, I try not to over stretch myself and I try not to flip but it doesn't always work out like that.
if I wanted to park money in a watch, It would definitely be something vintage.
Cannot see the Tudor or the Omega yielding any profit unless you get a good Chunk off the RRP
I have not seen many watches sell for a profit (even watches with amazing residuals need to sell and that is dependent on who is looking at the time) especially when you factor in maintenance costs efc.
I would also think that any potential profit would be heavily dependant on condition and any marks etc (or refinishing costs) would wipe out any potential gains so the watches would need to be looked after/not worn
I am no expert but it looks to me to be much better ways of making money, watches are a luxury and will on the whole cost us all a fortune
Good luck
you're probably right! Wishful thinking maybe, thank you nonetheless!
Ok I'm sure there are some exceptionally rare pieces that will appreciate in real terms.
In the world inhabited by most of us would I sink almost my entire portfolio into a single watch to join that club? - No.
No, or to elaborate, no there is not
The right vintage watches may be good long term investments, but don't buy them for that purpose. Buy what you like and enjoy.
A can't see many (any) mainstream watches purchased new becoming investments!
Funnily enough, price on ebay appears to be, er, £380 & postage!
Is there such a thing as a sure-fire investment car?
+1 Asked and answered.
I don't think the question is easy to answer without some provisos.
How long you want to keep it, do you want to wear or store it, and what's the purchase budget new or used.
I think if you keep it 5+ years a new Moonwatch is a fair bet to hold value but I doubt it will go up. Also as mentioned the steel rolex subs are probably as good as anything %wise, but not sure on the bigger deepsea or IWC monsters etc if the bubble bursts on the big watch fashion.
Zenith rainbow, Rolex 1530, Aquatimer (00's style), various PP non sport models I think are all really good vfm at the moment and could go north over the next few years. And no I don't have them all haha.
I remember in 2008 I had a 50th green sub in one hand and a moonwatch in the other at 3150 and 1600 rrp respectively. Now the speedy which I plumped for is probably worth about what I paid, but subs like the one I viewed are about 6k from blowers...
Quite the opposite, the question is very simple to answer: surefire? No! Like any investment.
It does not mean that you can't get lucky, and tweak the amount of luck with a serious research. But it will still be down to luck.
Last edited by Saint-Just; 6th January 2015 at 19:55.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
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