Reply With QuoteHoly crap, thanks for saving me a 130 euro's.
That's bizarre...:(
Christian @ watchguy.co.uk tortures a watch to death :)
http://watchguy.co.uk/review-a-trip-...m51-eta-c10111
Holy crap, thanks for saving me a 130 euro's.
That's bizarre...:(
Yeah... I was considering buying one as well just to see what it was like - quite glad I didn't.
Or maybe "puts it out of its misery"? Very informative, thanks for posting.Originally Posted by Cirrus
OMG!what did I just saw??
Thanks for sharing that Cirrus.
The winding stem can’t be removed as there is no need to do that. You just buy the watch, and put it straight into the bin. No need to wear it.
Last edited by barneygumble; 17th September 2014 at 20:28.
Interesting post. Thanks.
Really disappointed... will have to knock that one of the Christmas list
Blimey... I was about to buy one!
POS
.
Gray
Oh dear. Sistem 51 vs Apple watch suggests the Swiss should switch their efforts to penknives and chocolate!
There will, no doubt, be somebody along to defend this, but Im struggling to see how...
And, in fairness, they only do those to an average standard...
Well... it is probably more resistant to magnetism than some watches :)
Hah!Good grief, it's the Swatch Brooklyn Bridge
To be fair, this is what it is as a watch. But it's way overpriced at >£100. Should be much less than £20. That would be fair.
What do you expect for something made in Switzerland and sold for £100? I don't know why everyone is so shocked.
Quartz
Gray
I was tempted by one out of curiosity.
I'm not now.
Yup.
And I am personally still gonna buy one.
Why? Because I didn't expect to see a finely crafted movement in the Swatch anyway, and I'm still curious on how it runs in day to day wear.
This. It's a novelty item, noone needed to tear it apart to know what was in there tbf.
Plastic escape wheel and plastic pallet fork .....OMG
Thanks alot for linking this! I briefly thought about getting one and harvesting the movement for modding purposes but i'll stick to chinese movements for this.
Even more ridiculous when you look at the quality of Seiko/Citizen at this price point. I don't think it's just 'what you expect' at a certain price point, I think it reflects upon all their sub-brands if you're looking from a marketing perspective.
Is there a mechanical automatic Seiko made in Japan for £100 ? Otherwise the comparison doesnt work....
Take a look at the creation website and take your pick! - and I'm not sure it has to be made in Japan for the comparison to work? I've ordered an auto citizen diver for £88 including postage so it can be done.
I disagree, that is how the comparison has to be made. Otherwise Swatch could open a factory in Korea/China/Malaysia and actually put a Seiko-non-domestic-quality movement in there; but that not what they're doing.
How important is having 'Swiss made' on your 100 quid watch? For me, not at all, for the market they envisage, let's assume very.
I'm sure there's a Seiko fan out there who can enlighten us?! Inn sure some of the Seiko 5 range must qualify or I agree my argument doesn't quite hold water. The post was before my first coffee of the day!
Awful awful awful
I laughed out loud at that! In terms of better quality movements for a fraction of the money I'd offer up Orient. Made in Japan and great quality. My son's Bambino cost the princely sum of £77 from Creation and would happily blow that Swatch out of the water for quality.The winding stem can't be removed as there is no need to do that. You just buy the watch, and put it straight into the bin. No need to wear it
I must admit I was tempted by the Sistem51 as a novelty, but I think I'll pass.
I agree everything about the Bambino oozes quality and for that price.......amazing!
Again, not a single part of the Orient is made in Japan. Nothing wrong with that, but let's be clear about what it is.
Why does it matter a fig where the machine that churns these watches out happens to be pugged in? It clearly says nothing about the quality of the product - Christ, if there is one lesson here, that's it.
well said that man.
also, are these Swiss made? I thought it would say "Swiss made" on the dial like every other Swiss made watch.
Of course it does. We have no idea what kind of QC Swatch employs, what timekeeping is acceptable etc... nor does anyone in this thread know if these "plastic" parts are better or worse than anything else that could be used, or what their longevity is.
If nothing else the CHF and labour costs makes it impossible to make it as cheap as a China/vietnam/malaysia made watch... simple really.
Its a cheap Swiss novelty watch, with strong branding, which is all priced in...
I dont want one but I'm sure plenty of people will buy one anyway, and be happy about it.
The lesson is about economy of scale and the difficulty of making something well finished and screwed together in Switzerland, a country with very high-cost labour, like Japan. That is the point. The point that you can get cheap, well-made goods in countries with low-cost, relatively unprotected labour forces is valid, but a separate one.
That £77 Bambino buys extremely cheap Chinese or Thai or Vietnamese labour, and relatively well made, well finished parts. The £108 Swatch buys parts worth pennies, and a labour/social system that means everyone in Switzerland has healthcare, social insurance, and drives a Merc. I'm being facetious but this is a really obvious point. Additionally, the cost of machinery in Switzerland is higher, costs more to install, run and service, and the effort in distribution, marketing, shipping globally is much, much higher than selling via a few far-Eastern web-only outlets (can you buy an Orient Bambino in the UK?) who'll charge you £77 without taxes (the handful of European internet-based dealers want €180 for the same watch btw). And then you have to build in the SwatchCo profit margin that its shareholders require, which adds a few more %. I would have thought this sort of thing would be quite obvious by now?
Last edited by andrew; 18th September 2014 at 12:44.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
And the worst performance on the timegrapher was +19sec/day - for a watch with plastic components, is that really that bad? Better than most Seikos are rated at ;)
And to make sure there is no doubt, not in any universe I can conceive of would I want to own such a thing and I would also love to own plenty of Seikos.
But as has been mentioned, what can be expected from a Swiss Made 100 quid watch when all that being 'Swiss' takes into account in terms of labour force? Under 20secs/day accuracy seems pretty good to me regardless.
Apologies for my ignorance. I think I got misled by a video I saw of them being made, and the 'in house' moniker. The comparison of Orient to Swatch is obviously contentious and some good points have been made. However, to me, there are still some issues here with the swatch:
- No, we don't know how well a plastic pallet fork and escape wheel will perform, but plastic is innately softer than metal, and we can assume they haven't used a new mega-hard plastic at this price point, so I'd expect considerably more wear than traditional metal/jewelled.
- Much was made about this being a revolutionary movement using only 51 parts held together with a single screw. But the teardown shows that the single screw thing is not revolutionary at all, because they've just replaced all the other screws with badly finished solder. Similarly the 'you don't need to regulate it or service it' really means (to me) that the movement can't be disassembled and reassembled because it's been done so cheaply so when it stops keeping reasonable time there's nothing you can do except throw it away.
- Quite simply, there are much higher quality watches (IMHO) available at this price point and below. Seiko 5, Orient, Vostok to name just a few. Yes, apart from the Seiko these are niche brands that only WIS would know about, and the marketing and labour costs mean that the Swatch is unfairly loaded, but that's a fact of life- it's still poor value.
Having said that I do think +/- 20s day at this price point is pretty good - I have sent other watches back for regulating at this variance, but they tended to be rather more expensive! And Swatch are 'funky' so I'm sure they'll sell by the bucket load because most people simply won't care what's inside, they'll love the acrylic rotor and the fact that it's got cogs and stuff in. It's not for me though because, to my eye, the product fails to live up to the marketing.
I have one of these and to be fair the timekeeping is very good.
It is however clearly a cheap watch with a cheap movement.
At £108 I think it offers poor value compared to the Seikos, Orients etc that I own, but to be honest I think its competition is in the 'fashion brand' market.
I think I will still buy one. They're a fun, cool looking watch.
There's another, rather more elegant, tear-down here:
http://www.europastar.com/magazine/f...-sistem51.html
Some years ago I bought a Swatch automatic with an ETA 2841, a de-contented 2824 running at a slower rate, with synthetic pallet stones. Seven years later, it still runs fine, although I don't wear it very much. The list price was £90 inc VAT, IIRC. The polycarb case was cracked, so later I transplanted the movement into a new case, just as you do with a 2824 or Seiko movement. Completely serviceable, and delicate WIS can replace the synthetic pallet lever with a ruby one if they want.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
That's a much fairer tear down. The first one is a proper hatchet job. Complete with unflattering macros. I personally, think it is good value for money. Not sure if I would buy one.
If the first one was a hatchet job, then that one is a hagiography.
Incidentally, I don't know what the pallet fork and escape wheel could have been made of other than self-lubricating plastic, so I don't have any particular issue with that.
Last edited by barneygumble; 18th September 2014 at 15:46.
Enjoyed reading the review and have never been drawn to the watch anyway, as I think it looks crap. So, a crap watch with a crap movement for a cheap price. Awesome
am i surprised? of course not.what was anyone expecting - a patek phillippe.wear it for a year or two then throw it away consumerism as tastes change or the strap gets manky.
I think they are a great idea, and some elements may make future movements cheaper to produce, more robust, and simpler to work on - who knows.
They are cheap and I decided to buy one last week to take a better look - it has been around 6-8 seconds per day, which I was quite impressed with. But it's a cheap plastic watch, with recently well finished - I've had many Swatch watches, all have been disposed of once they aged or broke - this one will go the same way.
I see them more of a novelty - but then I see people wearing Swatch watches everyday, so maybe they will sell well too. I'd say my G-shock was a better buy, but that misses the point, the System 51 is a bit different and may well be updated and improved in the future.
It's just a matter of time...
I think the average WIS, let alone a non-WIS is so gullible and intellectually non-curious as to be swayed by the tear down featured here.
I am not particularly impressed by Sistem 51's looks. Nor am I its target audience.
But, I do feel the first review was a pre-concieved attempt to put down the watch. Atleast it comes across as such.
Sistem 51 is not some horological master stroke but IS innovative and seems to deliver enough for the price.
The person on the street will decide if it is a successful attempt or not.
But, I would not rush to dismiss it or call it 'crap' based on available evidence.
Am sure it bothers some that it is a Swatch and it bothers some that it is not a Seiko and the most vocal criticism expectedly will come from those quarters but hate to see others being swayed by those.
I don't understand this bit RAJEN - why would someone want it to be made by someone else? Do you think that people are annoyed that - say - the Precisionist line is made by Bulova instead of...I dunno...Vostok? I don't really understand your point.
Some just hate Swatch and some cant see beyond Seiko. Seiko fanboys are rather unique in that respect.Will usually not like everything thats not Seiko.
We'll see I guess. Personally, I care about the watch, not the brand.
Nah - probably a Dremmel ;)
Posting Permissions
