...would a PP be a sound investment or are you just going to lose money over 10 to 15 years no matter which brand you buy?
Like anything it depends upon buying right. You would also need to factor in that there are a lot fewer people buying 50k watches than under 10K watches, that they are possibly more fussy and may not need to buy your secondhand watch. Not at all the same kind of market as lower priced watches I think.
It would need to already be vintage and collectable for me to consider it a good investment.
Gray
If i was looking to invest 50k a watch would not even be a consideration. (unless one had a considerable diverse investment portfolio in the millions then a 50k investment watch might be acceptable)Originally Posted by Bassplayer
This is what I was thinking. I've been talking to a friend who has that kind of money available and asked me if I thought a Patek would be something upon which he could realise a long term gain. I've hedged my bets (largely because this is isn't something I've been asked to consider before) but my gut instinct says no, steer clear.
FT has an article which says something different.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0bde5284-7...44feabdc0.html
A moot point, if I had so much money that I could drop 50 large on a watch I would like to think I would attempt to do something more useful with it, and NO I don't mean buy a nearly new Fat RangeRover.
That FT article is interesting but I suspect that the whole story is slightly less impressive. The period in question was 2005 to 2013 and we all know what happened in 2008 when traditional savings, equities etc were decimated by the crisis. It's no surprise that collectables performed so well during this period but I'm not convinced they'd do as well in the future as we slowly crawl our way to an economic even keel.
You can imagine it but I'm afraid it's beyond my capability to imagine spending so much on a watch. Sorry
Vintage Daytona. Everybody knows Rolex so new money would be likely to spend on one. Pateks I think are more niche. People know what they want and especialy condition and provenance.
If you can't find anything better than a watch to invest £50K in, then you need some sound financial advice.
If I had 50k to invest I'll probably use that money to shorten my mortgage or something like that. Watches as investments, I don't know, doesn't feel right IMHO
50k on a few watches would be ok, but you need to be able to buy them wear them and enjoy them without worrying I see no point in just putting them in the safe.
I can't consider a watch as an investment and 50k is too much for me, but who knows in this crazy world... good luck!
Define Investment?
Personally I would say that if you get the pleasure of owning and admiring a lovely watch that travels through the adventures you have in life then thats a great investment!
RIAC
Investments are, as Java said, about buying in correctly.
Buying a 50k watch that will be available in say, 20 years, for 80k is merely keeping up with inflation - if you are lucky (again, those with that spending power don't often buy used unless theres no alternative.)
which leads to supply and demand. The model of Patek might be discontinued and there will be a finite number in existence but usually sufficient to satisfy demand so not often an impressive investment in the sense of outperforming inflation to a marked degree.
Its the stuff of even more limited supply and steady demand that performs better - the milsubs, newmans, pre-v early Pams (although quite a specialist area particularly with the radioactive stuff obviously.) so thats where I might look: one or two good Rolex pieces.
I'd be looking to buy a watch with significant provenance, maybe previously owned by a sports man. You might have to wait a while until the right watch is available for sale mind you.
You have to be a total numpty to spend £50 on a watch.
I am that numpty.
Laurent Ferrier.
A new watch would loose value like mad so it's probably best to go used or vintage. Even then a watch is by no means a sure fire thing - your £50K watch may be worth £50K in 20 years time rather than the £90K you were hoping for.
It was measured in local currency. If you'd bought £50K of Swiss Francs at the start of that period you'd have £75K by the end of it without any maintenance, storage, insurance or significant trading costs. In fact, buying almost any asset not baselined in pounds would have helped protect you from the collapse of the pound.
Buying Swiss Francs, or goods based on it that behave like a commodity ( i.e. identical in all markets, low or no rate of change - such as certain Swiss watches ) has been a good trade until quite recently. Whether it will be a good trade in 10 or 20 years is something of a gamble - the pound has started to gain back quite a lot of its loss.
Paul
A lot of very clever people think it might happen again SOON (a crash that is) - the markets are overpriced as peeps can borrow for nothing and just like the problem with mortgages - banks are lending to speculators 80-90% of the value of the stocks/bonds/what have you. In other words you buy £100 of stock - you borrow £90 - the stock rises to £110 - bingo 100% profit on your tenner. That is what did for Wall Street in 1929. It wont be long before the whole house of cards comes crashing down once more. So what the hell save your skins and buy a £50k watch or a £100K watch. Seriously the only way most will ever spend this kind of moolah on a watch is a lotto win, forget about the lotto on Tuesday, I just had a call from them "a survey" - would I use the Portuguese equivalent of Camelot to help invest if I won? a sure fire thing for me to win the £50m quid on TUESDAY....as we all know it is allegedly rigged! ...
a couple of Christiaan Van der Klaauw would be nice...an Eclipse one of them!
Last edited by Kakadu; 6th September 2014 at 18:46. Reason: crash and burn
50k to those with mega billions is less than small change to those lucky few, and as such a 50k watch would be far from an investment in their terms I would guess.
A spend of 50k and greater would have to be on a watch made in very small numbers AND be a brand typically collected among the hardened collectors and wealthy out their.
I would want a watch no other person would likely to have on their wrist,but if I were that wealthy I would be around people equally as wealthy supposedly,and that would/could mean they {assuming they too like expensive watches} mean not that rare and on your mates wrist too!!.
So if your wealthy and want that watch to stand out from the crowd at the bar,then drink in the pubs and clubs the poor people hang out in ;-).
It's best not to think of watches as investments, because technically they are speculative purchases, if you're thinking of making money on one.
Some watches have a better chance of appreciating than others, but unless you really know your stuff, you're better off not even going there.
Ask John Mayer.
I would buy a Comex 16600 and a new 116600, (from the first week of release).
You could pick up a nice full set LV with the change.
A while ago I had twice that amount to spend on watches. I didn't.
investment (for me) in the financial sense is buying an asset that (a) gives an income return and (b) may give a capital return ie property/shares etc
a watch can NEVER be an investment in these terms as it does not give an income return. However if you convince yourself that the income return part is replaced be enjoyment/use of the watch and that the capital return will be so great as to compensate for not having that income then good luck in finding a watch that will do that.
as well as being unable to pay an income return they do incur regular and recurring costs ie service/repair/insurance
I think the days when the capital increases on watches are great are gone save for very very few rarefied pieces. There is just too much knowledge/internet/dealers out there to make that possible.
TBH I think watches are a pretty dreadful investment. There are some exceptions to this of course. But you need some considerable expert knowledge, some good connections, and a following wind to achieve a sensible return investing in watches. However if you love watches and like owning them. If you can use the knowledge you have and some savvy and acumen. You can own some great watches and after many years of ownership, should you decide to cash in, you will probably walk away with, at least, a very large proportion of your money. This can not be said for most other things you may spend it on. The other point worth noting is that while you money is in your watches, it isn't being spent elsewhere.
Father in law has been doing this over the last 20years and with mixed sucess. There are three factors in my mind, first is never sell when you need to sell when it's best too. Telling people you don't want to sell adds a few extra pounds. Pick your brand and model carefully limited editions are great, but they need to be sort after... Eg Panerai 292 with diver worth lots more than without. Typically Pateks out strip the normal market, try and find one offs, example JLC with the red rather than yellow pushers. Province,receipts, service information, best number in limited editions and if you are not going to wear it keep them sealed, finger prints and touching marks them. Go to the manufacturer and get friendly, buy efficiently without VAT if possible and at the right price. Know what they are releasing and when to get in early.
Hope that helps, but like anything you will win some and lose some
Last edited by AndyMilts; 7th September 2014 at 12:05. Reason: typos
I would ask Eddie if I could buy some shares in timefactors.
Probably a pimped up gold Seiko5 with diamond dial or something like that.
There's no substitution for class.............
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Do you think 50k would be enough to commission PP to make you a unique and simple, no numbers, no date, hand wound watch? Stainless with black dial and applied silver markers at around 40mm :)
I would buy a few watches with that 50K which are more likely to give me a better return than just one watch.
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