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Thread: Ebola

  1. #101
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavKav View Post
    As I sarcastically predicted, our inept, spineless and uselessly incompetent government are frightened to even use non-contact temperature probes to check incomimg passengers from high risk countries. Suspect passengers will merely be 'asked questions' about how they are feeling!
    Yea, right, that REALLY solves the problem then!!!!!

    It is pointless to be honest.

    1) It takes 21 days before symptoms start to show - so a temperature probe will make bugger all difference. Plus what do you do with people with slightly high temps - i.e. all the women who are having a bit of flush??

    2) Also if you are flying in to Gatwick from say Paris, you might come in contract with people who have arrived in these airports from elsewhere (Spain or Australia, etc) -at which point you might become infected.

    If you really want to try to stem the spread of the disease stop all flights and lock down the effected regions - massive isolation zones - however how are you going to do it? These countries have huge land borders which would need to be policed. Or do you simply issue everyone with NBC suites and decontamination facilities.

    I still maintain that 100 times more people will die as a result of Obesity, Alcohol, Cars and Smoking (all things we can do something about) rather than Ebola.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by igorRIJEKA View Post
    Americans will save us!They will send army to every "ebola" country and save people :D
    They will provide medical services to the people outside US,and US citizens that have no medical insurance...well...screw them...
    Thanks this made me chuckle.

    Hey remember Operation Iraqi Freedom, the US only managed to kill something like 50,000 -200,000 Iraqi Civilians.
    Can you imagine the carnage if they declare war on ebola.

    Americans now have the affordable care act aka obamacare to take care of them (stock prices of the major participating insurance companies have rocketed) as have premiums....wonder what the Ebola coverage is like?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    It is pointless to be honest.
    Well, it has a point as to ' security' but as to ebola it is pointless.

    It again proves what the shock politics are about.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  4. #104
    Handwashing. That would seem to rather not quite cut it if you have been in contact with someone with the disease. The question is, how infectious is ebola at the different stages of the disease? We can assume, I believe, that it is extremely infectious once the disease is advanced. Whether ultimately it is devasting or fizzles out will probably depend on how contagious it is before someone suspects they may have a problem. I haven't seen any information on this.

  5. #105
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    This half hour doc is worth a watch. It gives you some idea of whats happening on the ground and an idea of the heroics of some individuals who are doing all they can to halt the disease.

    https://news.vice.com/video/the-figh...la-full-length

    Its well worth considering donating to MSF if you want to help

    http://www.msf.org.uk
    Last edited by seikopath; 10th October 2014 at 13:43.
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Thanks this made me chuckle.

    Hey remember Operation Iraqi Freedom, the US only managed to kill something like 50,000 -200,000 Iraqi Civilians.
    Can you imagine the carnage if they declare war on ebola.

    Americans now have the affordable care act aka obamacare to take care of them (stock prices of the major participating insurance companies have rocketed) as have premiums....wonder what the Ebola coverage is like?
    What is this nonsense? Remind me exactly what have Spain contributed to the global efforts tackling the disease, an effective drug or a vaccine, or perhaps an effective healthcare system?

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    What is this nonsense? Remind me exactly what have Spain contributed to the global efforts tackling the disease, an effective drug or a vaccine, or perhaps an effective healthcare system?
    I never said Spain was in any way superior in its efforts.
    Tough crowd;)
    Last edited by Passenger; 10th October 2014 at 18:03.

  8. #108
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    My daughters school fair was cancelled today due to fears of a tombola outbreak.


    I'll get my coat...........

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    I never said Spain was in any way superior in its efforts.
    Tough crowd;)
    Never mind, keyword ´Bushism´

    Meanwhile the manipulated crazyness knows no bounds so remote heat scans are probably a measure soon to be made mandatory on airports.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    I never said Spain was in any way superior in its efforts.
    Tough crowd;)
    You didn't, my post was to indicate what we can expect from your country to contribute to war on Ebola, as for war on terror, it stands firmly with the rest of the Coalition.. So I don't think the big boy did it and run away ;)

    Spanish troops were deployed in Iraq in August 2003 as part of the US-led coalition forces that former Prime Minister José Maria Aznar agreed with US President George Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair. Spain also was given the command of troops from Honduras, El Salvador, Dominican Republic and Nicaragua.
    A total of 1,300 troops were deployed in Najaf, south of Baghdad, one of the holiest cities in Iraq and a pilgrimage centre for the world’s Shi’ite faithful. Some idea of the mind-set drummed into the troops was indicated by the use of a new arm badge incorporating the Cross of St. James of Compostela—a symbol of the liquidation of the Muslims who were driven out of Spain after centuries of fighting in 1492. This was also the start of the period of colonialist expansion by Spain’s Catholic monarchy.
    Even the centre-right newspaper El Mundo was forced to remark, “To put the Cross of St. James of Compostela on the uniforms of Spanish soldiers demonstrates an absolute ignorance of the psychology of the society in which they will have to carry out their mission”. And it added, “It would be difficult to come up with any symbol more offensive to the Shiite population than this cross”.
    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013.../spai-m28.html

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    You didn't, my post was to indicate what we can expect from your country to contribute to war on Ebola, as for war on terror, it stands firmly with the rest of the Coalition.. So I don't think the big boy did it and run away ;)
    Funny and highly blinkered that ´war on terror´.
    You are aware of whom is the biggest fear merchant of the world?

    Ditto the choice of ´war in ebola´. Very illustrative.
    The subject is ebola and sending troops to isolate the poor sods in Africa is not going to cure anything.
    It is a vírus. A disease and it should be treated with medical care and hygene.
    Shooting or threatening to shoot poor people is not the solution to anything but creating/maintaining reserves for the have-a-lots; rich people´s compounds on a grand scale; the future coming to a theatre near you soon, if nor reality already.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    You didn't, my post was to indicate what we can expect from your country to contribute to war on Ebola, as for war on terror, it stands firmly with the rest of the Coalition.. So I don't think the big boy did it and run away ;)


    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013.../spai-m28.html
    Crack on, if having a pop at Spain makes your day. I´m not wishing to get into a my Country´s hands are cleaner than yours debate. The nation state idea is just another divide and rule tactic.

    My post highlighting the 50,000 plus civilian casualties (the lowest end of the estimate) of "Operation Iraqi Freedom" (As fine an example of Orwellian Newspeak as you could wish for ;) was intended to illustrate what we can expect if the US leads a coalition in a War on ebola.

    I don´t think the bugger ran away, unfortunately he has to keep meddling.

    The spice must flow.

  13. #113
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    I am sorry but you are talking complete b**x. In the absence of affirdable and effective anti (VHF/EVD) viral treatment isolation (quarantine observation and enforcement) is probably our only hope tackling spread of the disease, alongside with early diagnosis and adequate patients care. Suggesting that troops are there to shoot someone is just silly..

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    I am sorry but you are talking complete b**x. In the absence of affirdable and effective anti (VHF/EVD) viral treatment isolation (quarantine observation and enforcement) is probably our only hope tackling spread of the disease, alongside with early diagnosis and adequate patients care. Suggesting that troops are there to shoot someone is just silly..
    To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail. ;)

  15. #115
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    were all gonna die !!!!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundood View Post
    were all gonna die !!!!
    LOL. Indeed.

  17. #117
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    seemingly there is a simple old wife's cure for all of this, ebola chicken soup,

    its OK i'm already gone......

  18. #118
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundood View Post
    That is a damn good starter for 10!

    Before the soap-dodgers start screaming rayyyyciiiiist, the biggest Ebola danger to this country is not exactly coming from the bloody residents of Gerrards Cross is it?
    Last edited by KavKav; 14th October 2014 at 08:20.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by KavKav View Post
    That is a damn good starter for 10! Before the soap-dodgers start screaming rayyyyciiiiist, the biggest Ebola danger is not exactly coming from the bloody residents of Gerrards Cross is it?
    Were the people who caught it in the US/Spain black?

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Were the people who caught it in the US/Spain black?
    No I believe they were not, but they contracted the disease from black Africans, on a serious note it is sad that many of these diseases thrive in regions of dense poverty and bad education, it is also sad that these areas are mainly Black/Asian,

    but we cannot deny the reality of it, there will of course be the odd exception, as a virus does not discriminate.

    in the bigger picture, I find it sad that the western world has still not sorted poverty and clean water supplies across the world, it was 30 years ago this November, band aid release feed the world as a single,

    what have we done in that time? 30 years? I see no progress.

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by soundood View Post
    No I believe they were not, but they contracted the disease from black Africans, on a serious note it is sad that many of these diseases thrive in regions of dense poverty and bad education, it is also sad that these areas are mainly Black/Asian,

    but we cannot deny the reality of it, there will of course be the odd exception, as a virus does not discriminate.

    in the bigger picture, I find it sad that the western world has still not sorted poverty and clean water supplies across the world, it was 30 years ago this November, band aid release feed the world as a single,

    what have we done in that time? 30 years? I see no progress.
    Well some caught the disease from US/Spanish health workers who weren't black Africans.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundood View Post
    No I believe they were not, but they contracted the disease from black Africans, on a serious note it is sad that many of these diseases thrive in regions of dense poverty and bad education, it is also sad that these areas are mainly Black/Asian,

    but we cannot deny the reality of it, there will of course be the odd exception, as a virus does not discriminate.

    in the bigger picture, I find it sad that the western world has still not sorted poverty and clean water supplies across the world, it was 30 years ago this November, band aid release feed the world as a single,

    what have we done in that time? 30 years? I see no progress.
    Steady on Soundood the West has been busily bombing the crap out of people to preserve US hegemony and cheap oil supplies we can´t do everything at once. Also we´ve successfully permitted 50% of the Worlds wealth to migrate into the hands of the top 1%, again not likely to be much help to the impoverished is it.
    Its´progress Jim, just not as we the 99% would know it.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Well some caught the disease from US/Spanish health workers who weren't black Africans.
    The spanish nurse got infected in Madrid when caring for two spanish missionaries who were out at the ebola front in the african field right from the beginning.

    The mess is that there have been no funds forthcoming.
    To add grave insult the spanish gvt is now blaming the nurse for negligence and publicly stating that she she is not fit to do such responsible work.
    Mind you, that is the quite well off right wing minister of health spouting nonsense from her tower, well insulated by armed staff in uniform paid for by the nurse and other plebs.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  25. #125
    IMO, the WHO are doing a good job.

    We knew it was going to happen, just not when, it's been bubbling away in the background for a while.

    This article made quite a good read;

    http://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/ne...tastrophe.html

    We're pretty safe here in the UK, but that doesn't mean we should take the threat lightly. Ebola has been here once already, but its not the obvious carriers we have to worry about - its those we don't see and their respective web of contacts. This strain has a lower mortality rate than previous encounters, which is perhaps why it's spreading so far.

    Can we try and keep this thread informative rather than just spouting about 'quarantine everyone' please.

  26. #126
    The news coverage of ebola is starting to gain momentum. The BBC had quite an extensive feature at 10pm last night with the WHO starting to make noises. About time in my book but maybe calculated to not start the panic prematurely?

  27. #127
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    One hopes that these events, potentially affecting the whole globe and hitting every country where it hurts (i.e. economically), may reverse the trend in the West/North economies conveniently to devalue 'international development' and aid.

    Ignorantly burying heads in the sand leaves your @rse in the air.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkf View Post
    One hopes that these events, potentially affecting the whole globe and hitting every country where it hurts (i.e. economically), may reverse the trend in the West/North economies conveniently to devalue 'international development' and aid.
    It may but why would it?
    The powers that be are in no way affected and are still keeping the purse strings tight. They rather spend money on security than on medical care for the general public.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    It may but why would it?
    Because global companies are already taking big hits on the bottom line over it, with much more projected. They aren't stupid.

    We could start by cancelling that f-ing useless £9m sop to public opinion just announced (screening at UK airports) and investing it in basic, sustainable and safe hygiene for healthcare services in west Africa.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkf View Post

    We could start by cancelling that f-ing useless £9m sop to public opinion just announced (screening at UK airports) and investing it in basic, sustainable and safe hygiene for healthcare services in west Africa.
    We could but.... can't see it happening. Scare mongery and subsequent security/controll business is making a small group or rich people VERY much richer still as opposed to soap making a lot of poor people healthier. Hope to be proven wrong, but based on decennia of evidence to the contrary fear that I am right.
    Last edited by Huertecilla; 14th October 2014 at 14:13.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkf View Post
    Because global companies are already taking big hits on the bottom line over it, with much more projected. They aren't stupid.

    We could start by cancelling that f-ing useless £9m sop to public opinion just announced (screening at UK airports) and investing it in basic, sustainable and safe hygiene for healthcare services in west Africa.
    History seems to show that throwing money at Africa does no good in the long run... in fact, it often seems to do harm.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
    History seems to show that throwing money at Africa does no good in the long run... in fact, it often seems to do harm.
    As opposed to throwing £9m of public money at UK border screening, eh?

    I fully agree with your underlying premise, though, and the same is true of a lot of 'heart strings' type charitable support, which is why it needs targeting properly, with the sort of strings that NGOs can't attach working alone.

    .

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkf View Post
    As opposed to throwing £9m of public money at UK border screening, eh?

    I fully agree with your underlying premise, though, and the same is true of a lot of 'heart strings' type charitable support, which is why it needs targeting properly, with the sort of strings that NGOs can't attach working alone.

    .
    That would also seem to be a waste - if it was important why the gap of a week or so between decision and implementation? I suppose the point is to reassure the proles that all is well...

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
    I suppose the point is to reassure the proles that all is well...
    The point of upsetting them is the ´need´ for further installation of controllling equipment.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  35. #135
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    There are too many people in the UK who fail to wash their hands after using the toilet - especially in public toilets where body fluids and excreta can contaminate door latches, door handles, taps etc. etc. and especially floors. We've probably all seen men using public toilets, and walking straight out afterwards without washing hands. They also leave their urine dribble trade marks on the floor for others to either step in or clear up after them. And some people's own bathrooms and toilets are not cleaned properly and their kitchens too are probably contaminated. We've probably all been to houses where hygiene matters leave much to be desired. Only takes one Ebola carrier to touch a door handle with soiled/dirty hands, or to pee drops of urine onto the floor or the w.c. seat/rim, for the virus to spread to others. And there is more chance of it spreading to those who themselves do not wash their hands. Sooner or later the Ebola virus will probably reach more European countries where it will cause havoc and could cause thousands of deaths if countries are unprepared. There is a good case for everyone to carry antiseptic hand gel/foam and for them to use it in addition to washing their hands … but unlikely people will take sufficient heed of any warnings. The plagues centuries ago caused hundreds of thousands of deaths when peoples' travels were relatively little/few compared to today - thus today the Ebola plague could spread far quicker and to millions. I remember the typhoid epidemic of the 50s when we were made to wash our hands at school several times daily using carbolic soap - but these days few people would tolerate such preventative measures. The Ebola virus could be the biggest threat to mankind since the plagues; we are not fully prepared for its possible impact and probably do not have the resources to deal with its possible consequences. Could be a case of too little too late if it does get a hold in the UK and the rest of Europe.

    dunk
    Last edited by sundial; 15th October 2014 at 08:20.

  36. #136
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    It's worth pointing out that hand gels are far less effective than most people think and have to be used correctly to maximise their effect and anti-bacterial products aren't going to be much use against a virus. We should be reinforcing basic hygiene techniques in schools too, we have got lazy, believing that science has got the answers to all infections when they patently haven't.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artistmike View Post
    It's worth pointing out that hand gels are far less effective than most people think and have to be used correctly to maximise their effect and anti-bacterial products aren't going to be much use against a virus. We should be reinforcing basic hygiene techniques in schools too, we have got lazy, believing that science has got the answers to all infections when they patently haven't.
    Anti-viral as well as anti-bacterial products exist

    http://www.boots.com/en/Boots-Advanc...200ml_1036207/

    And if Ebola hits the UK then prospective MPs campaigning in next year's general election will need to cease shaking hands with constituents.

    We live in a 'touchy feely' world which inevitably includes future Ebola carriers using communal key pads at check-outs. It's not just an African problem.

    The risks are everywhere.

    dunk
    Last edited by sundial; 15th October 2014 at 08:27.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    using communal key pads at check-outs.
    I míght know what that is if you give me a hint
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    I míght know what that is if you give me a hint
    In some supermarkets now you have to scan/price your own shopping before bagging it. Thus saving Mr Sainsbury a few bob by not hiring as many check out people.

    The same issues of cross contamination apply in all public or shared spaces.

    WHO warns of possibly 10,000 new cases per week within 2 months. It certainly warrants careful scrutiny.

  40. #140
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    Ebola virus is very sensitive to most hand hygiene products, even ordinary bar soap, because they disrupt its outer membrane, so you don't need to use anything special.

    Also, sufferers don't get the virus in their sweat and on their skin until they are in the late stages, so I don't know where the check-outs were that you were thinking of but personally I'd only worry about ones in healthcare facilities. Plenty of checking out there, of course...

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkf View Post
    Ebola virus is very sensitive to most hand hygiene products, even ordinary bar soap, because they disrupt its outer membrane, so you don't need to use anything special.

    Also, sufferers don't get the virus in their sweat and on their skin until they are in the late stages, so I don't know where the check-outs were that you were thinking of but personally I'd only worry about ones in healthcare facilities. Plenty of checking out there, of course...
    Sounds like it might be possible to share a train / tube filled with early-stage Ebola carriers and make it out without contracting the disease then.

    I might be wrong...

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    WHO warns of possibly 10,000 new cases per week within 2 months. It certainly warrants careful scrutiny.
    That got my attention when I heard the guy say it on the news last night ... IF it reaches that level then I think they'll have lost control of it.

  43. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    Sounds like it might be possible to share a train / tube filled with early-stage Ebola carriers and make it out without contracting the disease then.

    I might be wrong...
    It's entirely possible, it's transmitted through DIRECT contact. It's not airborne unless it mutates significantly. Unless they're bleeding/spitting/sneezing/coughing in to an open cut on your person/eyes/throat you'll probably be OK. It's only in the later stages when the 'host' has given up that the virus really makes an effort to find the next victim; hemorrhaging from every surface combined with fits caused by brain-bleeds to really 'splash' it around.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCansell View Post
    That got my attention when I heard the guy say it on the news last night ... IF it reaches that level then I think they'll have lost control of it.
    We never had control of it. R0 > 1.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    Anti-viral as well as anti-bacterial products exist
    dunk
    They do indeed, though when you look at the gels in say, Morrrisons, they are even less than the 60% alcohol content recommended for anti-bacterials to do their job properly, let alone treat viruses, though as drmarkf says, hand washing is still the best way of dealing with the situation, if you can.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkb89 View Post
    Unless they're sneezing in to your eyes you'll probably be OK.
    Ah, that could be a small problem.

    Plenty of people have to stand on commuter trains because the carriages are full.

    MO is for the diseased to sneeze into the faces of other passengers at close range.

    Nobody carries a handkerchief.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCansell View Post
    That got my attention when I heard the guy say it on the news last night ... IF it reaches that level then I think they'll have lost control of it.
    I believe the point is that they don't have the outbreak under control now. The figures are an indication of the likely impact if there in not an enhanced effort that manages to gain control.

  47. #147
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    Not every country shares the same disregard for others ...



    For clarification - these people are suffering from a common cold, and taking the usual courtesy. Not Ebola !

    Paul

  48. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by jkb89 View Post
    It's entirely possible, it's transmitted through DIRECT contact. It's not airborne unless it mutates significantly. Unless they're bleeding/spitting/sneezing/coughing in to an open cut on your person/eyes/throat you'll probably be OK. It's only in the later stages when the 'host' has given up that the virus really makes an effort to find the next victim; hemorrhaging from every surface combined with fits caused by brain-bleeds to really 'splash' it around.



    We never had control of it.
    Good grief, thank you, first information I have seen on how contagious this is at different stages. Why hasn't this been forthcoming from the media or have I missed something? Frankly this has been building for weeks and at least looks like it has the potential to wreak havoc. God help everyone if it does and let's hope to heck it doesn't but basic information like this is vital, no?

  49. #149
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    Last edited by soundood; 15th October 2014 at 10:08.

  50. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by catch21 View Post
    Good grief, thank you, first information I have seen on how contagious this is at different stages. Why hasn't this been forthcoming from the media or have I missed something? Frankly this has been building for weeks and at least looks like it has the potential to wreak havoc. God help everyone if it does and let's hope to heck it doesn't but basic information like this is vital, no?

    All you need to know:

    http://www.who.int/csr/disease/ebola/faq-ebola/en/

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