Probably the most blatant example(s) of Shill Bidding I've ever seen ....

[Seiko7A38]

Unless you know different, of course.

We all know, despite their protestations that eBay is still rife with shill bidding. Much of it remains hidden under the convenient cloak of the Private Listing - Bidders' identities protected auction. But sometimes it's not - and just so bleedin' obvious you can't believe that the seller is being allowed to get away with it.

It started (for me) a little over a week ago, when an Italian member of my forum flagged up a Franken 7Axx - one which I hadn't spotted (because it was listed as a 7A48A).
Here's a link to the thread, if anyone wants to read up the full detail:

http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums...aveat-emptor-?

It was bid to 51 Euros - not a particularly amazing figure ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181440031609



But I did notice that it had attracted a disproportionately high number of bids - 33.

Turns out 24 of them were placed by the winning bidder whose eBay ID shows in encrypted / abbreviated form as n***v (143). Needless to say, it was subsequently re-listed:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181446819560




I've since done a bit more digging.

The Italian eBay seller Cogglufi is using this other ID n***v (143) to shill all his auctions:

http://www.ebay.it/sch/cogglufi/m.ht...p2047675.l2562 (need to view using eBay.it)

Here's another classic example - a Venus Cal. 170 movement, where n***v (143) has currently placed 35 of the 50 bids.

http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI...p2047675.l2565



.... and the damning 30-day summary of n***v's bidding activity:

[Seiko7A38]

Myself and 2 Italian members of my forum have already reported seller Cogglufi to eBay.
However 24 hours later, he and his accomplice n***v (143) are still very much in business.
I suspect eBay Italy won't act until they receive more complaints.

So if there are any Italian speakers on this forum who'd be so kind as to add their two cents worth
Here's the link to the eBay Italy shill bidding page:

http://pages.ebay.it/help/policies/s...l-bidding.html

Shill bidding in Italian is: Offerte con rialzo a trabocchetto.

Scroll down to almost the bottom of that page, till you find the word: segnalalo - click on that link:



Thanks to anyone who takes the trouble.

[steptoe]

Lifes too short..

[Henk Hoving]

In the last 10 years I've used ebay 20 times or so, such a hassle..., I prefer dealing directly with a person.

[Kakadu]

Buongiorno! Cercherò la mia fortuna - grazie a Dio per google translate!

[Seiko7A38]

Not wishing to put words into your mouth, but here's a pretty decent translation:

(Subject: Cogglufi).

Buongiorno, si prega di esaminare le offerte per l'articolo numero 181446819560 e il numero 181440031609 che lo ha preceduto (lo stesso oggetto rimesso in vendita). Altro esempio della stessa attivitá sospetta del venditore è l'articolo numero 181442968771. Il venditore Cogglufi sta utilizzando un altro ID n***v (143) per operare "offerte con rialzo a trabocchetto". Vi prego di esaminare la cronologia di 30 giorni delle offerte dell'utente n***v. La sua attivitá di offerente é al 100% sugli oggetti di Cogglufi. Ebay per serietá verso gli utenti dovrebbe vietare immediatamente entrambi questi ID.
Grazie, cordiali saluti

Google Translates (in reverse), tweaked slightly:

Hello, please review the bids for item number 181446819560 and number 181440031609 that preceded it (the same item re-listed). Another example of the same business, suspect the seller is article number 181442968771. The seller Cogglufi is using another ID n *** v (143) to make "shill bids." Please examine the 30 days bid history of user n *** v. Its activity as a bidder is 100% on the objects of Cogglufi. Ebay seriousness towards users should immediately ban both these IDs.
Thank you, best regards

[Seiko7A38]

Lifes too short..

But apparently not too short to keep your post count up.

[Belligero]

Oh, I thought you were talking about Omega and Patek Philippe's practices at auctions. This one's small potatoes in comparison.

[893bet]

EBay auctions are mostly a waste of time. Bargains don't exist there.

[bartle]

Thanks for the heads up - I've been involved in a few auctions where there have been a surprisingly high number of bids from one person - shill bidding never occurred to me - naive I guess

[Wibbs]

Myself and 2 Italian members of my forum have already reported seller Cogglufi to eBay.
However 24 hours later, he and his accomplice n***v (143) are still very much in business.
I suspect eBay Italy won't act until they receive more complaints.

So if there are any Italian speakers on this forum who'd be so kind as to add their two cents worth
Here's the link to the eBay Italy shill bidding page:

Thanks to anyone who takes the trouble.

Done. Every little helps. I've a couple of contacts in ebay so I'll email them as well. It's worked before.

Oh, I thought you were talking about Omega and Patek Philippe's practices at auctions. This one's small potatoes in comparison.

True dat. Over the years I've kept an eye on some of the big name auction houses sales(for vintage stuff, pre 75 kinda thing) and while the odd "bargain" passes through it's rare enough and getting rarer. The same watches on ebay even from some of the silly dealers are often if not usually cheaper and much cheaper from non dealer auctions.

EBay auctions are mostly a waste of time. Bargains don't exist there.

I'd disagree myself. Granted I am a cheap bugger and put the hours in if I'm after a particular item, but I have found there are most certainly still bargains/good value pieces to be found. Maybe not in the higher price brackets and/or names like Rolex etc, but there are still some good items out there among the dealer prices, the frankens and the fakes.

Nowadays it just means you really have to be on your toes and know your stuff and have patience. Being a bit cheeky can help too with "best offer" sales. Now I'd be too embarrassed to fire in a truly daft lowball offer, but you would be surprised how much someone will come down on price for an item that's been sitting on the bay for ages. EG about a year ago I saw a watch with a BIN price of nearly 600 euros. It had been up for over a month. They would normally go for around 300 in open auction, so I offered 200 and they took it.

Another thing that's been mentioned here regarding ebay is the same item coming up time and time again from the same dealer after it has been won/sold. Saw another example this morning. http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...E:B:SS:IE:3160

Longines Comet. Interesting watch. When it came up before it seems the seller had no clue how much they normally fetch. They later added that they'd googled the model and found they go for over a thousand euros. In the first sale IIRC it only made under 300. Lo and behold it's back up again with the "googled value" as part of the description. Things that make you go hmmmm. One of the worst I've seen was another 70's Longines with an electronic movement. It must have gone through "winning" 5 auctions before it finally went. I'd not be shocked to see it come up again TBH. Ebay themselves don't seem to give a damn about this either. A mate of mine won a non watch related auction and the seller just refused to complete the deal claiming it went for too little. Put a ****** reserve on it then you fool. My mate opened a dispute with ebay and nothing came of it and the seller relisted it with a reserve and sold it on.

[Wibbs]

Thanks for the heads up - I've been involved in a few auctions where there have been a surprisingly high number of bids from one person - shill bidding never occurred to me - naive I guess

My rule Bartle is check the other bidders percentage dealings with the seller. Anything over 10% and I get twitchy. Anything over 50% and I bail. Now I also look for the same watch in completed listings and if I find it I walk away.

[bartle]

My rule Bartle is check the other bidders percentage dealings with the seller. Anything over 10% and I get twitchy. Anything over 50% and I bail. Now I also look for the same watch in completed listings and if I find it I walk away.

Good tip - I'll definitely do that in future - thanks

[mr.chef]

Brought this from eBay over a year ago for £800 who says no bargins

[barryw]

Now that is nice, i have been lucky buying and selling so far, but i dread selling a watch now just in case the buyer makes a claim applying there's nothing in the box!
Mind you i spoke to the lady at the PO the other day, and she said that Royal Mail scan the parcels?
Does anyone know if this is right?

[JasonM]

Now that is nice, i have been lucky buying and selling so far, but i dread selling a watch now just in case the buyer makes a claim applying there's nothing in the box!
Mind you i spoke to the lady at the PO the other day, and she said that Royal Mail scan the parcels?
Does anyone know if this is right?

Only with a barcode reader......

[barryw]

Only with a barcode reader......

Thanks

[Rodder]

Now that is nice, i have been lucky buying and selling so far, but i dread selling a watch now just in case the buyer makes a claim applying there's nothing in the box!
Mind you i spoke to the lady at the PO the other day, and she said that Royal Mail scan the parcels?
Does anyone know if this is right?

This prevents me selling with ebay, from what I understand you have no comeback.

[soundood]

But apparently not too short to keep your post count up.

or yours?

[canuck]

Only with a barcode reader......

And an x-ray. Anything that goes on a plane has to be x-ray'd. You would be surprised by the number of hand guns that are posted in the UK!

[steptoe]

But apparently not too short to keep your post count up.

Take the opportunity to gain one yourself while yr at it :D

[barryw]

And an x-ray. Anything that goes on a plane has to be x-ray'd. You would be surprised by the number of hand guns that are posted in the UK!

Yes the lady did say the items were scanned by an x-ray machine.
Didn't cross my mind about weapons, i thought they were just making sure their was a watch in the box! Incase of a claim.

[Seiko7A38]

Done. Every little helps. I've a couple of contacts in ebay so I'll email them as well. It's worked before.

Thanks. Though like me, if you're in the UK, registered on eBay.co.uk., you'll probably find it was a waste of effort. This is a translation of the message I got back from eBay Italy Customer Support a couple of days later:


Dear .....
I received your e-mail in which signals some users.
After making the necessary checks I understand that you're a registered user on the English site. For this reason, unfortunately, I can not give you my assistance to, however, I am convinced that my colleagues will be at your disposal to solve your difficulties.
So, please kindly contact Customer Support ebay.co.uk from the site in English.
Thank you for your cooperation and wish you a good evening!
Best Regards,
Csilla B.
EBay Customer Support


I haven't bothered to follow up. I don't expect eBay UK will be interested in doing anything about shill bidding by an Italian registered seller.

[Seiko7A38]

My rule Bartle is check the other bidders percentage dealings with the seller. Anything over 10% and I get twitchy. Anything over 50% and I bail. Now I also look for the same watch in completed listings and if I find it I walk away.

Like I said, this is probably one of the most blatant examples I've ever seen ....

[fmc000]

EBay Italy confirmed to me that they're taking actions but they won't update me any further on the case for privacy reasons.

[Wibbs]

Thanks. Though like me, if you're in the UK, registered on eBay.co.uk., you'll probably find it was a waste of effort. This is a translation of the message I got back from eBay Italy Customer Support a couple of days later:

I'm Ebay.ie. Maybe because Ebay have a big presence on the ground here in Ireland and I'd be dealing with other "locals" they're more likely to follow things up? Or because the local ebay seller volume is tiny and most people would be dealing with non .ie sellers? Over the years I've reported a few sellers and none were registered with .ie and they followed it up in every case and I never got a reply like that. Ebay.co.uk seems to be a law unto itself at times. Different layouts etc.

Like I said, this is probably one of the most blatant examples I've ever seen ....

Man that is a joke.

EBay Italy confirmed to me that they're taking actions but they won't update me any further on the case for privacy reasons.

Well that's something Fmc.