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Thread: Do We Need Watch Winders?

  1. #1
    Craftsman himmelblau's Avatar
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    Do We Need Watch Winders?

    An often asked question is; Should I buy a watch-winder?

    The following discussion summarizes the logic of both the pros and cons and also takes a look at technical and other differences concerning some of the automatic watch winders currently on the market;

    __________________________________________________ _______________________________________

    As the number of watch owners having one or more automatic watches continues to grow, one of the most frequently asked questions is Do I need an automatic watch winder? To begin, I must point out that, despite the fact that my company has been a pioneer in introducing professional watch winders to consumers, I have publicly stated several times on the watch forums that they are NOT an absolute necessity.

    Lets look at some concerns watch owners have about winders:

    QUESTION: I'm sure there is a good reason for watch winders. But, Im a little puzzled by their purpose other than for testing. It just seems to me that a given watch only has a certain number of hours of life in it before it must be overhauled and serviced, right? So, why not slow the process down while youre not wearing it? Is there a detrimental effect on the watch? What about new watches at the jeweler? They can sit for months before being sold. Ive never seen a winder in the window keeping that new watch wound and waiting for me to buy it.

    ANSWER: Watch winders are beneficial for those who own more than one automatic watch. They are particularly useful for automatic perpetual calendar watches which can be complicated and a nuisance to reset once stopped. More important, all watches should be kept wound and running for their own mechanical health to ensure proper lubrication and cut down on wear. If a watch sits still for a long period of time, the lubricant tends to clump. When that happens, it can have an adverse effect on the timekeeping accuracy of a watch with poor amplitude of the balance wheel. The reason that some, even the finest brand, timepieces do not perform up to par is probably due to the effect on a watch sitting in a jewelry store for long periods of time in a non-running condition.

    QUESTION: If an automatic watch is not worn for several days, is it better to wind it in a watch winder, rather than manually turning the crown every morning? Or, does it make no difference which way the watch is wound?

    ANSWER: Automatic watches are designed with two interacting sets of winding systems, one is the manual winding mechanism and the other the automatic winding unit. Current typical automatics have a sandwiched double reverser wheel which contain miniature clicks inside. These reverser wheels allow the motion of the user's arm to build power reserve from the oscillating rotor through the winding system indirectly to the mainspring which drives the escapement.

    Manually winding an automatic mechanism "on a steady basis" can put unnecessary rapid stress on the sensitive auto reverser wheels possibly damaging the tiny internal clicks. The torque pressure resulting from manual winding of automatic watches is not made for, day-in day-out, manual winding, especially if the watch is not in a pristine new or overhauled condition. Also, most automatic watches today have screw-down crowns. Using such crowns on a steady basis for manual winding will result in a shorter life for these spring-loaded crowns. The daily pressure and tension will break the posts off sooner or later requiring replacement of the crown and also the stretched / worn O-ring tube gasket. You then run a greater risk of allowing moisture to penetrate the case without your awareness and knowledge.

    QUESTION: Does the way of mounting of the watch on a winder make a difference or is it enough to have a watch turning regardless of the position its in? Why would it matter if all were out to do is to try to mimick the motions of the wrist?

    ANSWER: Winders which do not turn the oscillating weight of an automatic watch, a.k.a. the rotor, with at least one full 360 degree turn in a completed revolution may not provide sufficient power reserve to keep a watch going after removal from the winder. I have found that the Bergeon/Cyclotest winders must be wall-mounted to provide optimum winding for all automatic watches. In a hanging position, the carousel-type winder rotates and revolves simultaneously giving the rotor the best opportunity to make one full 360 degree turn with each complete circle. These same winders laying flat on a table will not give ALL rotors enough power reserve since the rotor does not turn on the oscilating weight post. Winders using a cone-shaped mandrel to mount watches in a profile manner have, in my opinion, a drawback because its principle operates similar to a rocking chair or a pendelum. The watch does not receive the 360 degree turns to guarantee a LONG TERM buildup of
    power reserve to keep it running long after removal from that winder.

    SINCE THERE IS NO WINDER ON THE MARKET WHICH CAN DUPLICATE THE UNPREDICTABLE MOVEMENTS OF A HUMANS WRISTS, IT IS ALL THE MORE IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT A SUITABLE WINDER CONTROL THE DAILY WINDING OF EXPENSIVE TIMEPIECES. A cheap or improperly designed winder may in fact do more bad for a watch than not winding it at all since it predictably stresses the same parts on a continuous daily basis.

    QUESTION: The number of different types of winders on the market today have proliferated to many choices in varying price ranges. Arent I better off just getting the cheapest one and sticking the rest of the money into another watch?

    ANSWER: To some degree, watch winders can be compared to WATCHES themselves. We all know that a $10 quartz watch can give you the same or more accurate time as a $10,000 luxury timepiece. So, why would anyone spend (100 times more) $9990 additional if he can get the correct time for so much less money. The answer to this question is it may be a combination factor of design aesthetics, long term reliability and an appreciation of superior quality. The same thing can be said not only about watches but about other consumer products which also includes automatic watch winders. One can spend about $80 for the least expensive plug in type MTE winder up to (100 times more) $8000 for a luxury model Scatola del Tempo. There are professional watch winders far in between in the mid-range price points which have become very popular with watch collectors who want affordable quality made products. These are the ones I personally favor most.

    QUESTION: Why are watch winders so expensive?

    ANSWER: Quality watch winders are sold through channels from the manufacturer to a distributor to the retail shops and finally to the end-user, the consumer. Unlike computers, electronics and other mass-produced consumer goods, watch winders, by comparison, have a limited small niche market. Research and development, warranty service and marketing (advertising and promotion) add up to the final cost leaving each of the sellers in the pipeline with a small profit margin, far less than what a retail shop would earn on the sale of a brand name watch.

    To summarize, while watch winders are NOT an absolute necessity, they are not only a great convenience in keeping watches on the correct time and date but also help to extend the general running condition of them.

    Re-printed courtesy of:
    Jack Freedman
    SUPERIOR WATCH SERVICE INC.

  2. #2
    Master
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    They are particularly useful for automatic perpetual calendar watches which can be complicated and a nuisance to reset once stopped.
    True.

    If a watch sits still for a long period of time, the lubricant tends to clump.
    Nonsense.

  3. #3
    Grand Master Velorum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
    Nonsense.
    I have a couple of autos that seem to have done OK for the past 15 years without being on a winder despite being left for months or even a number of years at one point in a run down state. I wound them a couple of weeks ago and they are fine. Never been serviced. As they are of comparatively low value then its unlikely they will any time soon.

  4. #4
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by himmelblau View Post
    QUESTION: If an automatic watch is not worn for several days, is it better to wind it in a watch winder, rather than manually turning the crown every morning? Or, does it make no difference which way the watch is wound?
    If you have an budget Seiko (calibre 7S26 and so on) the only option is to shake it to start it then set the time and wear it as they are predominantly auto wind only.

  5. #5
    Master Incredible Sulk's Avatar
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    If a watch sits still for a long period of time, the lubricant tends to clump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
    Nonsense.
    I think that may have been true yonks ago before the advent of modern synthetic lubricants. Perhaps someone more clued up than me could confirm or refute that.

  6. #6
    Journeyman bork's Avatar
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    To me, the pros and cons don't really apply to how I use my watches. I normally do things that I know aren't good for them. Vibrations from a bumby bike ride or the lawn mower. Taking a plunge in the cold sea after sitting in the hot sun. Golfing. I'm not being wreckless, but I want my watches to be part of my everyday life. So I believe that the relatively small dangers & bonuses of a winder is cancelled out by Bork-the-dork's way of wearing watches.

    But I do store my watches in a winder, but that's really just to know where to look for them. It's not even turned on ...

    And, as you probably have guessed, I own mostly low - mid range watches. The day I buy my first perpetual calender things might be different! :-)

  7. #7
    Master aldfort's Avatar
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    My 4 watch winder (a cheap-ish Axis) has just conked out after 5 plus years of good service so I'm pondering this question myself at the moment. Box or replacement winder? or both!
    I have to say the winder has been great at keeping all the auto's wound and ready to go and it's a bit of a PITA if you have to set the date and time if you are in a rush.

    That said I think the stuff about the lube was true years ago but not so true now. I also have a belief that all things mechanical work better if they are used regularly so watches that are stopped for long periods of time can't be a good thing for the watch.

  8. #8
    Journeyman bork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aldfort View Post
    My 4 watch winder (a cheap-ish Axis) has just conked out after 5 plus years of good service so I'm pondering this question myself at the moment. Box or replacement winder? or both!
    I have to say the winder has been great at keeping all the auto's wound and ready to go and it's a bit of a PITA if you have to set the date and time if you are in a rush.

    That said I think the stuff about the lube was true years ago but not so true now. I also have a belief that all things mechanical work better if they are used regularly so watches that are stopped for long periods of time can't be a good thing for the watch.
    Mrs Bork never sets her IWC Ingenieur, she believe it looks equally nice whether it's correct or not.

  9. #9
    Master
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    No need at all IMO. If you have a complication one of the joys of ownership is setting it!!

  10. #10
    Have been thinking about getting one, but the good watches get enough wear in the week to keep their charge, and the cheaper watch the SKX007 which I only wear occasionally doesn't IMO merit the cost of a winder.

  11. #11
    Craftsman
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    I have one and use it, it's handy if you have a set of watches you wear in rotation. I don't like having to swap them out all the time though, I'd much prefer some power reserve manual winds kept in a watchbox.

  12. #12
    Master
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    8 automatics that I rotate all the time and ive never been tempted!!!

    Winding is part if the process for me that I enjoy when swapping watches

  13. #13
    Master .olli.'s Avatar
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    I do not see the point of them.

    Most of my watches will spend weeks in my watch box, so even if they were on a winder, with a say +/-3 sec a day accuracy they could easily be out by 1minute plus, in which case they will need reseting anyway.

    I get argument of extra stress on the movement when windind an automatic, but I never do this. A shake it to get it started and it goes on the wrist. Ok it is not fully wound straight away but it is good enough.

    The only use I can see for winders are
    - Movements with complications which are a pain to set
    - Some of them make a nice watch box

  14. #14
    Grand Master
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    If you are after one.

    "dottling gyro winder" is the one you want ;-).


  15. #15
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by .olli. View Post
    I do not see the point of them.

    Most of my watches will spend weeks in my watch box, so even if they were on a winder, with a say +/-3 sec a day accuracy they could easily be out by 1minute plus, in which case they will need reseting anyway.

    I get argument of extra stress on the movement when windind an automatic, but I never do this. A shake it to get it started and it goes on the wrist. Ok it is not fully wound straight away but it is good enough.

    The only use I can see for winders are
    - Movements with complications which are a pain to set
    - Some of them make a nice watch box

    Saying you don't feel the need for one is one thing. But do you really not understand the point of a watchwinder?

    All your watches are there set and wound and all you need to do is pick one to put on in the morning. Pop it back in when you get home. The point of them is obvious, people's choice of whether they feel the need for one or not is different.

    For example I see the point of a Car, but given I live in central London I don't feel the need for me to own one.

  16. #16
    Craftsman himmelblau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P9CLY View Post
    "dottling gyro winder" is the one you want ;-).

    The DÖTTLING Gyrowinder: Uniquely Moving; Yeah, my wallet flew out the room when it caught sight of the starting price

  17. #17
    Master Grandiloquence's Avatar
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    Well, I've survived this long without one......

  18. #18
    Master Dan83bz's Avatar
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    Do I like winders ? I'm with Mr. Horse on this one !

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  19. #19
    Got one 'free' with my U1 a few years ago. Used it for a little while but soon turned it off.
    The noise next to my bed, coupled with more watches than could sensibly be juggled, months with less than 31 days and the drift of timekeeping over extended periods just killed any perceived benefit for me.
    I'll certainly never buy one now...

  20. #20
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Some watches need to be kept on a watchwinder, like the Uyllese Nardin Astrolabium but must most don't. You wouldn't keep the engine running on your car when you weren't using it because it would cause wear so why do the same to your watch?

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  21. #21
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    Some watches need to be kept on a watchwinder, like the Uyllese Nardin Astrolabium but must most don't. You wouldn't keep the engine running on your car when you weren't using it because it would cause wear so why do the same to your watch?

    Eddie
    +1.....keeping a watch running 24/7 at full wind is maximising the wear rate on the barrel because the spring's slipping. All this talk about keeping the oil moving is rubbish in my view; watches aren't like cars!

    Only worth using on a perpetual calendar watch IMO.

    Paul

  22. #22
    Master aldfort's Avatar
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    Thanks to Paul and Eddie - that's helped me decide what to do.

  23. #23
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by aldfort View Post
    Thanks to Paul and Eddie - that's helped me decide what to do.
    +1 as started to re-evaluate what I'd previously thought.

    That said, I like the idea of one visually next to the watch box

  24. #24
    Master .olli.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVByrne View Post
    Saying you don't feel the need for one is one thing. But do you really not understand the point of a watchwinder?

    All your watches are there set and wound and all you need to do is pick one to put on in the morning. Pop it back in when you get home. The point of them is obvious, people's choice of whether they feel the need for one or not is different.

    For example I see the point of a Car, but given I live in central London I don't feel the need for me to own one.
    Thank you for educating me. So what you are saying is that I should sell my car to go and buy a watchwinder?

  25. #25
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by .olli. View Post
    Thank you for educating me. So what you are saying is that I should sell my car to go and buy a watchwinder?

    It would be amusing if you did

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    You wouldn't keep the engine running on your car when you weren't using it because it would cause wear so why do the same to your watch?

    Eddie
    Nice analogy
    Andy

    Wanted - Damasko DC57

  27. #27
    Master Dan83bz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by himmelblau View Post
    The DÖTTLING Gyrowinder: Uniquely Moving; Yeah, my wallet flew out the room when it caught sight of the starting price
    indeed very cool. But Id have to sell all my watches AND get a bank loan just to buy it :)

  28. #28
    Master aldfort's Avatar
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    I'm bumping this for Fish so he can find it easier.

  29. #29
    Master Wexford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    +1.....keeping a watch running 24/7 at full wind is maximising the wear rate on the barrel because the spring's slipping. All this talk about keeping the oil moving is rubbish in my view; watches aren't like cars!

    Only worth using on a perpetual calendar watch IMO.

    Paul
    I have mine on a power switch timer. They get wound for six hours a day then left to run down the other 18.

  30. #30
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy tims View Post
    Nice analogy
    And very true! Annual calendar I can see why but normal 3hander not needed at all IMO

  31. #31
    Journeyman
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    Interesting!
    Its always easier with a winder if you have several watches

  32. #32
    i had used a watch winder for about 2-3 years but sold it eventually. i just found out that i enjoy using/playing with the crown and i stopped switching watches on my wrist every other day, so owning a winder became pointless for me..

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by aldfort View Post
    I'm bumping this for Fish so he can find it easier.

    Thanks for the bounce on the thread for me. I would have to say though my question was over possible brands than if I need one or not. :)

    Thanks
    Fish

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